If You Are Feeling Suicidal

[babic1]

http://www.metanoia.org/suicide/spagebw.htm

Excerpt from above site:

QUOTE:

"If you are feeling suicidal now, please stop long enough to read this. It will only take about five minutes. I do not want to talk you out of your bad feelings. I am not a therapist or other mental health professional - only someone who knows what it is like to be in pain.

"I don’t know who you are, or why you are reading this page. I only know that for the moment, you’re reading it, and that is good. I can assume that you are here because you are troubled and considering ending your life. If it were possible, I would prefer to be there with you at this moment, to sit with you and talk, face to face and heart to heart. But since that is not possible, we will have to make do with this.

"I have known a lot of people who have wanted to kill themselves, so I have some small idea of what you might be feeling. I know that you might not be up to reading a long book, so I am going to keep this short. While we are together here for the next five minutes, I have five simple, practical things I would like to share with you. I won’t argue with you about whether you should kill yourself. But I assume that if you are thinking about it, you feel pretty bad.

"Well, you’re still reading, and that’s very good. I’d like to ask you to stay with me for the rest of this page. I hope it means that you’re at least a tiny bit unsure, somewhere deep inside, about whether or not you really will end your life. Often people feel that, even in the deepest darkness of despair. Being unsure about dying is okay and normal. The fact that you are still alive at this minute means you are still a little bit unsure. It means that even while you want to die, at the same time some part of you still wants to live. So let’s hang on to that, and keep going for a few more minutes.

"Start by considering this statement:

“Suicide is not chosen; it happens

when pain exceeds

resources for coping with pain.â€

"That’s all it’s about. You are not a bad person, or crazy, or weak, or flawed, because you feel suicidal. It doesn’t even mean that you really want to die - it only means that you have more pain than you can cope with right now. If I start piling weights on your shoulders, you will eventually collapse if I add enough weights... no matter how much you want to remain standing. Willpower has nothing to do with it. Of course you would cheer yourself up, if you could.

"Don’t accept it if someone tells you, “that’s not enough to be suicidal about.†There are many kinds of pain that may lead to suicide. Whether or not the pain is bearable may differ from person to person. What might be bearable to someone else, may not be bearable to you. The point at which the pain becomes unbearable depends on what kinds of coping resources you have. Individuals vary greatly in their capacity to withstand pain.

"When pain exceeds pain-coping resources, suicidal feelings are the result. Suicide is neither wrong nor right; it is not a defect of character; it is morally neutral. It is simply an imbalance of pain versus coping resources.

"You can survive suicidal feelings if you do either of two things: (1) find a way to reduce your pain, or (2) find a way to increase your coping resources. Both are possible.

"Now I want to tell you five things to think about.

"1 You need to hear that people do get through this -- even people who feel as badly as you are feeling now. Statistically, there is a very good chance that you are going to live. I hope that this information gives you some sense of hope.

"2 Give yourself some distance. Say to yourself, “I will wait 24 hours before I do anything.†Or a week. Remember that feelings and actions are two different things - just because you feel like killing yourself, doesn’t mean that you have to actually do it right this minute. Put some distance between your suicidal feelings and suicidal action. Even if it’s just 24 hours. You have already done it for 5 minutes, just by reading this page. You can do it for another 5 minutes by continuing to read this page. Keep going, and realize that while you still feel suicidal, you are not, at this moment, acting on it. That is very encouraging to me, and I hope it is to you.

"3 People often turn to suicide because they are seeking relief from pain. Remember that relief is a feeling. And you have to be alive to feel it. You will not feel the relief you so desperately seek, if you are dead.

"4 Some people will react badly to your suicidal feelings, either because they are frightened, or angry; they may actually increase your pain instead of helping you, despite their intentions, by saying or doing thoughtless things. You have to understand that their bad reactions are about their fears, not about you.

"But there are people out there who can be with you in this horrible time, and will not judge you, or argue with you, or send you to a hospital, or try to talk you out of how badly you feel. They will simply care for you. Find one of them. Now. Use your 24 hours, or your week, and tell someone what’s going on with you. It is okay to ask for help. Try:

"Send an anonymous e-mail to The Samaritans

Call 1-800-SUICIDE in the U.S.

Teenagers, call Covenant House NineLine, 1-800-999-9999

Look in the front of your phone book for a crisis line

Call a psychotherapist

Carefully choose a friend or a minister or rabbi, someone who is likely to listen. But don’t give yourself the additional burden of trying to deal with this alone. Just talking about how you got to where you are, releases an awful lot of the pressure, and it might be just the additional coping resource you need to regain your balance.

"5 Suicidal feelings are, in and of themselves, traumatic. After they subside, you need to continue caring for yourself. Therapy is a really good idea. So are the various self-help groups available both in your community and on the Internet.

"Well, it’s been a few minutes and you’re still with me. I’m really glad.

"Since you have made it this far, you deserve a reward. I think you should reward yourself by giving yourself a gift. The gift you will give yourself is a coping resource. Remember, back up near the top of the page, I said that the idea is to make sure you have more coping resources than you have pain. So let’s give you another coping resource, or two, or ten...! until they outnumber your sources of pain.

"Now, while this page may have given you some small relief, the best coping resource we can give you is another human being to talk with. If you find someone who wants to listen, and tell them how you are feeling and how you got to this point, you will have increased your coping resources by one. Hopefully the first person you choose won’t be the last. There are a lot of people out there who really want to hear from you. It’s time to start looking around for one of them.

"Now: I’d like you to call someone."

[Betsy]

Thanks Babic that is a very good resource.

bets

[mrs tree]

Thanks for that.

A lot of whats in there makes sense

Mrs Tree

[samsung]

Thank you Babic!!!!

[JTBadBug]

Babic, I have used this tonight, not because I am about to die, but, because the thoughts are bouncing a little. It is good, it should be pinned on the top of this forum so we don't have to search for it when we need it.

Many thanks, Jane.

so....who do I call (I am fine)

[Cassie]

Babs, what a fantastic contribution to the site...

You are a gem.

Cass :wub:

[e11ie]

I've seen this before and its BULLSHIT

Of course were going to read it were desperate aren't we.

We're sitting with a fucking blade or a bunch of tablets as our only chance of peace and willing something to make us feel okay and we come accross this little gem offering us some instant fix so OF COURSE WE READ IT.

This message is the one thing that makes me consider suicide more than anything else, to know that in my desperation this is it.

[em]

e11ie, I'm sorry you don't find this helpful, Its always the case that what works for one person doesn't necessarily work for another. Perhaps you could share with us what you do find helpful when you are in a crisis?

[e11ie]

I dont' know what helps, I only don't follow through my thoughts with actions becasue of my children, I don't want them to have to live with mum having killed herself.

Its just to me this says you need to call on other people to survive and I don't have anyone, so its another dead end.

I apologise if my comment has in any way made anyone feel bad. I didn't mean to belittle it as a coping method for anyone, but it makes me feel even more alone.

[gobbothegoblin]

Urm have 2 agree with ellie.. the last thing u wanna do is tlk 2 someone esp people like the samaritans who make u feel lower. They kind of belittle you and make you feel very small and young and you kind of get the impression that they talk to you as though they believe there above you. Also the time you spend reading that , your feelings of loss , anxiety.. ect. of why you felt suicidal in the first place will have increased. I suppose it could be a good method for some but for me personally i find friends and people who you feel very close to or love help alot more. :unsure:

[realscape]

I agree with Ellie on this one. This type of advice makes me feel more suicidal not less. The samaritans are absolutely shite.

Here's how my experiences of trying to deal with suicide have gone:

Feel suicidal

Know that feeling suicidal is abnormal

Tell people (friends) I feel suicidal

People say "suicidal people don't talk about it, so you're not suicidal you're attention seeking"

Me still feel suicidal

Feel strongly like acting on it

Phone Samaritans

Samaritans say "you need a fresh start in life, go and see your GP asap and tell her, she can help"

I tell GP, she give me meds, refers me to psychologist (takes over a year for referral to sessions)

Psychologist says I'm an addict and that is making me feel more suicidal

I get clean, take meds, still feel suicidal, put on 5 stone, feel more suicidal than ever

I phone saneline, they say tell GP

I tell GP she refers me to psychotherapist

Psychotherapy makes me feel suicidal, I tell her, she refers me to psychiatrist

Psychiatrist tells me I'm OK, gives me dx, gives more meds

Three years later I am closer to acting on it than ever before.

How helpful. I feel more suicidal than ever, now I know Samaritans, psychologist, psychotherapist, psychiatrist, saneline and GP haven't helped. I have read 'the perfect suicide'. When I suicide, I will be in the small percentage who succeed. Only someone who hasn't phoned the Samaritans would think that phoning them would help. The more you go through these things, the more you realise that there is nothing someone external of yourself can do to make the feelings go away.

[Eva*]

I know that it doesn't help everyone, but I personally sometimes just need someone to listen, I've called the Samaritans twice and it helped me both times, not in the long run, just to get through that moment, well okay, both times I was all on my own in a foreign country and it was someone to talk to, maybe not the usual situation.

I've called helplines here in Munich, one from a place that supports sexually traumatised women and a psychiatric one and they are really good. I never got through at the equivalent of the samaritans here, tried a few times on different days. But I heard they're crap so maybe it was for the best.

I once called a crisis-helpline only to find out it was Scientology!!!!! Shocking!!!

[pip]

Real

YOU ARE A STAR

I am SO with you on this

Pip

x

[realscape]

Thanks Pip but its not a great feeling to be 'right' about such horribleness.

I must admit I did find Samaritans useful once. When my dad pretended to kill himself and I had absolutely no emotions about it at all, I was worried I was a psychopath. The didn't seem to think I was and were quite chatty and calming. And years and years ago when i was in a very abusive relationship they offered me to go to their offices to go into a shelter which was very lovely and kind of them.

Eva,

Aaargh Scientology. You have to be very careful of these advice and support lines in adverts in the paper, a lot of them are cults or religions. For example, many that offer pregnancy counselling are religious based anti-abortion organisations. I'm not making a judgement on abortion right or wrong but they misrepresent themselves to vlunerable people.

Think I might try scientology. They hate psychiatrists as much as I do so it can't all be bad!

[Eva*]

I couldn't remember where I got the number from but it must have been a leaflet or something that I picked up in some 'professional' place.

I'm a very friendly docile person but I get very stroppy when people want to tell me about dianetics on the street.

[babic1]

Im sorry this wasnt helpful for all of you, but nothing can ever satisfy everyone. I have found info like this really helpful in the past when i have been suicidal, as i have found various helplines in aus helpful. . . hence why i shared this info. The thign is each of us will need different things to pull us up out of the crappy head space when we are feeling suicidal and its about working out what it will take for each of us, to prevent us from doing that. All of us will need to do, say or hear different things in our times of need. All i aks is that when feeling suicidal that you take the time to think about all your options as best you can at the time, and sometimes reading something like this may help. . .

[dylis]

Urm have 2 agree with ellie.. the last thing u wanna do is tlk 2 someone esp people like the samaritans who make u feel lower. They kind of belittle you and make you feel very small and young and you kind of get the impression that they talk to you as though they believe there above you. Also the time you spend reading that , your feelings of loss , anxiety.. ect. of why you felt suicidal in the first place will have increased. I suppose it could be a good method for some but for me personally i find friends and people who you feel very close to or love help alot more.

If you're completely alone though and don't have any friends or family, like me, this could help a little - i search every day for something to hold on to, something to keep me going. tho i agree with you about the samaritans. after going into detail about how bad i felt, all i ever got was (in a very patronising voice) 'tell me, do you still feel suicidal'? yeh, so what the fuck are you going to say now? - they made me feel completely inadequeate - i only ever remember having two decent, realisitc voices down the line from the samaritans.

but yknow, i feel everyone has someone. i wish i could meet someone like me who actually has no-one.

[Sandoval]

I have read that article a few times.

The most sucidal I ever have been is recently and I have not tried to call the Samaritans. I recall calling them after an O'D when I was 18 and the person I spoke to belittled me, made me feel stupid. Mum found me hours later collapsed on the floor and took me to A&E, stomach pumped etc.

Another horrible place.

Sick to death of being patronised by middled aged nurses who haven't got a clue about mental illness. justtell you you're selfish.

I went to the crisis team at my hospital one sunday and that was ABSOLUTELY no use considering I basically told then I really wanted to kill myself that night and they sent me off with leaflets.

I recently found a site called suicidal.com which was good.

Maybe I ask too much from people, I know I'm selfish, but I just wanna be alright.

My meds and family have helped me with my suicidal thoughts.

But you still get those days.......... :(

[whhyyy]

i have no advice, when i feel suicidal i try and kill myself....... not happened often and have to really define whether it's just wanting the agony within to stop or actually wanting to die. self help and being alone helps me.. really don't think when i am in that state i wana read anything.... talk to anyone...... etc. that'll just make me feel worse. when i have got into the state of wanting to die i'm peaceful, like nature and taking it all in, the pain stops when i have made the choice..... nothing printed or said is going to change my mind, i find it patronising and does not take inot account individualism or guilt. me

[rebeccaborderline]

Hi

I agree whyyy, there is a difference between wanting everything to stop, and being truly suicidal, I have felt it in myself. However risky behaviour at bad points can make those differences immaterial because of end result. Also agree that true S feeling (with me) is actually rather calm...dont wish to elaborate further as not sure healthy/helpful

Take care peeps who are hurting

rebeccaborderline

[lloydy]

hi all, i have found all your comments very helpful. i have had a really good last few weeks where i finally decided that i knew where i wanted my life to go. however, out of the blue, the last 2 days have gone really pearshaped. i have no idea how his happened but iv'e spent 2 days connsidering suicide. i'm going to see how things go at work tomorrow morning. i don't have any fear of suicide, hope i don't feel the need to do it. i have a fantastically supportive wife and 3 great kids, thats what i'm scared of, hurting them, but hey ho, lets see what happens tomorrow

lloydy

[rebeccaborderline]

Lloydy

Be nice to yourself next few days till it passes, and it will, we know it will!

Good to hear you have warm support

rebeccaborderline

[jai]

lloydy

i hope that just as these emotions seem to be overwhelming you now that others replace them soon.

suicidal feelings are chaos to live with and overcome at the time.

You have us here to share with.

take good care

sending gentle hugs

jai

x

[PnkPnthr]

http://www.metanoia.org/suicide/spagebw.htm

Excerpt from above site:

QUOTE:

"If you are feeling suicidal now, please stop long enough to read this. It will only take about five minutes. I do not want to talk you out of your bad feelings. I am not a therapist or other mental health professional - only someone who knows what it is like to be in pain.

"I don’t know who you are, or why you are reading this page. I only know that for the moment, you’re reading it, and that is good. I can assume that you are here because you are troubled and considering ending your life. If it were possible, I would prefer to be there with you at this moment, to sit with you and talk, face to face and heart to heart. But since that is not possible, we will have to make do with this.

"I have known a lot of people who have wanted to kill themselves, so I have some small idea of what you might be feeling. I know that you might not be up to reading a long book, so I am going to keep this short. While we are together here for the next five minutes, I have five simple, practical things I would like to share with you. I won’t argue with you about whether you should kill yourself. But I assume that if you are thinking about it, you feel pretty bad.

"Well, you’re still reading, and that’s very good. I’d like to ask you to stay with me for the rest of this page. I hope it means that you’re at least a tiny bit unsure, somewhere deep inside, about whether or not you really will end your life. Often people feel that, even in the deepest darkness of despair. Being unsure about dying is okay and normal. The fact that you are still alive at this minute means you are still a little bit unsure. It means that even while you want to die, at the same time some part of you still wants to live. So let’s hang on to that, and keep going for a few more minutes.

"Start by considering this statement:

“Suicide is not chosen; it happens

when pain exceeds

resources for coping with pain.â€

"That’s all it’s about. You are not a bad person, or crazy, or weak, or flawed, because you feel suicidal. It doesn’t even mean that you really want to die - it only means that you have more pain than you can cope with right now. If I start piling weights on your shoulders, you will eventually collapse if I add enough weights... no matter how much you want to remain standing. Willpower has nothing to do with it. Of course you would cheer yourself up, if you could.

"Don’t accept it if someone tells you, “that’s not enough to be suicidal about.†There are many kinds of pain that may lead to suicide. Whether or not the pain is bearable may differ from person to person. What might be bearable to someone else, may not be bearable to you. The point at which the pain becomes unbearable depends on what kinds of coping resources you have. Individuals vary greatly in their capacity to withstand pain.

"When pain exceeds pain-coping resources, suicidal feelings are the result. Suicide is neither wrong nor right; it is not a defect of character; it is morally neutral. It is simply an imbalance of pain versus coping resources.

"You can survive suicidal feelings if you do either of two things: (1) find a way to reduce your pain, or (2) find a way to increase your coping resources. Both are possible.

"Now I want to tell you five things to think about.

"1 You need to hear that people do get through this -- even people who feel as badly as you are feeling now. Statistically, there is a very good chance that you are going to live. I hope that this information gives you some sense of hope.

"2 Give yourself some distance. Say to yourself, “I will wait 24 hours before I do anything.†Or a week. Remember that feelings and actions are two different things - just because you feel like killing yourself, doesn’t mean that you have to actually do it right this minute. Put some distance between your suicidal feelings and suicidal action. Even if it’s just 24 hours. You have already done it for 5 minutes, just by reading this page. You can do it for another 5 minutes by continuing to read this page. Keep going, and realize that while you still feel suicidal, you are not, at this moment, acting on it. That is very encouraging to me, and I hope it is to you.

"3 People often turn to suicide because they are seeking relief from pain. Remember that relief is a feeling. And you have to be alive to feel it. You will not feel the relief you so desperately seek, if you are dead.

"4 Some people will react badly to your suicidal feelings, either because they are frightened, or angry; they may actually increase your pain instead of helping you, despite their intentions, by saying or doing thoughtless things. You have to understand that their bad reactions are about their fears, not about you.

"But there are people out there who can be with you in this horrible time, and will not judge you, or argue with you, or send you to a hospital, or try to talk you out of how badly you feel. They will simply care for you. Find one of them. Now. Use your 24 hours, or your week, and tell someone what’s going on with you. It is okay to ask for help. Try:

"Send an anonymous e-mail to The Samaritans

Call 1-800-SUICIDE in the U.S.

Teenagers, call Covenant House NineLine, 1-800-999-9999

Look in the front of your phone book for a crisis line

Call a psychotherapist

Carefully choose a friend or a minister or rabbi, someone who is likely to listen. But don’t give yourself the additional burden of trying to deal with this alone. Just talking about how you got to where you are, releases an awful lot of the pressure, and it might be just the additional coping resource you need to regain your balance.

"5 Suicidal feelings are, in and of themselves, traumatic. After they subside, you need to continue caring for yourself. Therapy is a really good idea. So are the various self-help groups available both in your community and on the Internet.

"Well, it’s been a few minutes and you’re still with me. I’m really glad.

"Since you have made it this far, you deserve a reward. I think you should reward yourself by giving yourself a gift. The gift you will give yourself is a coping resource. Remember, back up near the top of the page, I said that the idea is to make sure you have more coping resources than you have pain. So let’s give you another coping resource, or two, or ten...! until they outnumber your sources of pain.

"Now, while this page may have given you some small relief, the best coping resource we can give you is another human being to talk with. If you find someone who wants to listen, and tell them how you are feeling and how you got to this point, you will have increased your coping resources by one. Hopefully the first person you choose won’t be the last. There are a lot of people out there who really want to hear from you. It’s time to start looking around for one of them.

"Now: I’d like you to call someone."

i cant believe it. do you know just how much hope this message gave me? i felt like complete shit last night and for the first time in my life for the past couple of days i've been suicidal. i immediately went to online pages to fnd help and you described my feelings perfectly within this message. i did feel like maybe i was being weak , but (and this is exactly like you said) i had SO MUCH PAIN , i just felt like i was going to explode and i was cutting myself, and i just used all the self-control i could not to cut the wrong place. you've really made me feel a little less alone, thnx so much.

[sunshine_bear]

Hey

I have seen this before and it has helped me in the past. And I keep reading it at the moment.

Some things help some people, other things help others.

natx