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Totally F*cked Up For No Reason At All


walker

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OMG this is starting hurt

It isnt going to happen, and I am filled with a grief, each time I visit James

and when I leave, ..........................

well the void widens and the longing deepens

So it sounds like, with James, you dont feel that closeness, but you also said above that he hasnt really seen the 'core' you that would let you know that he really accepts you? Perhaps James partly understands this, but not absolutely. If he thought along the lines of "well I am not going to admit those bad things about T" then he would always fall short of what you need to hear. Relationships are about telling people things, being honest, especially if they are very, very important to us. I think that above, you have made some realisations and put some things more concretely into words than you may have in the past. How might you say these things to James, so that he knows what you need? Even though it may feel like you have tried to do this again and again, and failed, what exact words could you use, based on what we have been talking about above, to communicate your need to be seen in your entirety and accepted in that way? It may even help to mention your old therapist too - I think that James would find it helpful to know what a helpful therapist feels like to you.

Perhaps something along the lines of "I know it seems like I always pull away from you, but its because it feels like there are things about me you dont see or understand. I cannot belive that you would really like me if you knew what I am like at my core - and this is not a belief to be challenged or a thought distortion, its a very powerful sense that I am so rotten inside, and that I cannot possibly believe that you really accept me because you have not truly seen what I am like. I need you to understand all the bad parts of me, and THEN still show you can accept me. I need to talk about how I am bad so that you really listen to me, feel what I feel without trying to tell me Im wrong or that I need to change a belief, and then I can see that you accept me. Just saying "you are fine as you are" doesnt help me - I need to talk about all the things that hurt me to think about everyday. Telling me that I can change all these things about myself just makes me feel like you are saying "yes I agree, they suck", but without you ever acknolwedging that they are PART of me right now. Until I feel like you can really see the truth, I dont belive that you truly KNOW me, and I cant trust you, even though I really want to".

I went through the exact same stage with Emma, and said the same thing to her. It felt frightening and dangerous, but it changed our relationship for the better. She actually seemed to realise what I was saying, a little light went on, as if she went "oh! so THATS why we've been stuck!". It could well be the thing that helps you too, so maybe try? Now that we have struck the gold of insight, the next step is action - otherwise we just stay stuck in the same place. Chapter 4 of that book will point James in the right direction - your words will provide the detail, the map that James needs.

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yes you are right

and I am going through some of the things on here to clarify what I need.

I may write it down, as it is sometimes easier to write how I feel rather than tell him.

I told him about the other guy, weeks and weeks ago, but he cannot provide the same support. That man wasnt a therapist as such, but a person who helped sort issues out for who my husband worked with ( you understand this Ross).

When I saw him, I was able to leave where I lived, and spend the day with him, not known by anyone, and being cared for and accepted. I could walk around in tears with no one knowing me or judging me.

It was an unusual situation, and not one that can be replicated by a therapist on the NHS?!!

And I think in someways I became far too dependant on him. although I have no doubt that he was what kept me alive at that time.

Still seem to be in nomansland atm, although have been thinking all morning about quitting therapy

Like who cares anyway

Its too much trouble

the past is dragging me back to what I was, and what I think I will always be

I can feel you reaching out, so hard,

trying to help so desperately,

and I am closing down and losing

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You only lose if you stop trying

Say the words to James, or write them, whichever is easiest. You are right - you probably did become dependent on that guy. The thing is, dependence feels safe, but it never teaches you to be able to find all these things for yourself. As soon as that person is gone, you are back into the same maelstrom that you started in. Thats why the aim of therapy isnt to privide a shoulder to cry on (to use a figure of speech) - its to find someone who can support you, in totality AT FIRST - but then gives you the strength to walk on your own two feet.

The trouble with dependence is that its like trying to help someone to walk who wont put their feet on the floor. Every time they let go, you fall. It is EXACLTLY like when you are growing up, when youre 2 or 3. You are given holding and soothing, and your emotions are seen and understood. You have a safe base to go back to. But gradually you explore the world around you, knowing that there is always that safe base to go back to if things get too bad. But a parent does not keep the child next to her all the time, and allow it to never go and explore. She gently, and with love, pushes the child to test the waters, to dicover new happy sensations for herself, but is there, just off to one side, should her daughter fall and hurt herself, or succumb to the pains of life in some way. This is how a childs confidence is built, and its how she learns to become autonomous - free.

Say the words to James. I know that what you crave is dependence, a nice protective suit of armour where all the pain goes away. That is safe and it has certain benefits - but its downside is that you never are able to reach out for genuine love because it will always be DEPENDENT love. You never learn how to truly function, with freedom and empowerment, in the world because you cannot be far from the person holding you up. Therapy literally is like reliving the important parts of your childhood that went wrong - and right now you need to give little T the encouragement she needs to begin to explore, to be brave and to say what needs to be said to James, and then begin to take those baby steps into the world.

It is EXTRAORDINALRLY hard for you - I know this. As soon as any daylight appears, I feel that you want to run and hide, but no one is helping you by letting you do that again and again. James needs to know the above, and how to provide that safety net. But even with a safety net, you cannot accomplish anything uness you get out on the tightrope and practice. And NO I dont mean "get back to work T you lazy cow" - I mean, start to try using some of the therapy tools that are in front of you. The validation issue os the block to the imagery, the mindfulness and any sort of self-exploration. You are stuck in a permamnent panic because of this NEED for James to see you as you really are. That is why you must tell him the above, and trust that through the mutual relationsho of therapy that you can become stronger.

Even though that past relationship FELT wonderful, it was not building you up. It only went part of the way - acceptance. You need the other parts of the equation - soothing, guidance and feedback on what you actually do to try to change.

Only you can open your mouth on this one - if needs be, yes write it down. Thats what I did with Emma.

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Walker

I just wanted to say that I think I understand a good deal of what you are saying. Is there a strong inclination just to 'walk away from all this rubbish and pull yourself together-for really , of course, you are not like these people.' I was like this for ages-its the sort of determination that has probably allowed you to achieve so much in your life-and yet its the very thing that keeps you sick.

The punitive parent and the detached protector--I cannot claim to be an expert on these but I do recognise these modes. The problem is that I tended to see them as the wise, logical side of me and this is just not true. The pp is my deamon, my attacker who constantly feeds self loathing and is always there to say they told me so. It disguises itself as the truth and uses pride to pull me away from myself with disgust saying 'you are not one of them.... you are...what? The little emotionless woman who can do everything and feel nothing. Do you see the false pride in there, mixed with self hatred-for there is a total lack of acceptance there that keeps me in the loop of self hatred.

I hope you can find some real trust in your Therapist, James. I had to keep proving to myself and others that I was ill by more and more extreme actions. I did this without knowing what I was doing or why. I first lost weight until I was anorexic-and then all the other crazy and ugly behaviours to demonstrate to myself and others that I couldn't cope. It made things so much worse. Really it doesn't matter how you catergorize yourself, you do need help and support just now and have nothing to prove. You are not a fraud.

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The punitive parent and the detached protector--I cannot claim to be an expert on these but I do recognise these modes. The problem is that I tended to see them as the wise, logical side of me and this is just not true

Yes , Weds, I think that is just it

Everyone is saying it is my 'punitive parent' but I see it as the truth - the proper - decent way - the 'should' way - the way to acceptance -it is my CONSCIENCE - it tells me what is right and wrong and everything else is just me being bad

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if it was really the part that says what is right and wrong, them why would you not apply these harsh standards to others? Do you see that there is a flaw there? The PP is personal, applying higher standards to you than you would to your children or your friends.

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but thats just it

I am often hyper critical of others - too - and apply the same stuff to them, especially those close to me

But there is no utter loathing, not like I have directed at me

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Hi T

I am so sorry that they have done this to you, it makes my blood boil to hear that and most certainly plays into all the bad views I have about the NHS. It seems that there are some people who fall through the cracks - not ill enough to hospitalise but iller than their staff can handle. So, because they cant manage, you are left on your own, at the time you most need it.

The reason I can relate to you is because the EXACT SAME THING happened to me. I had a primarily CBT therapist who tried overly simplistic approaches with me, we got nowhere, she would not listen. I stopped talking, things got hostile, and eventually therapy was terminated. She told me that I was "dysthymic" and that i was unhelpable. I felt gutted, destroyed.

But NEXT, I felt ANGRY. I knew she had never listened to me. I knew she had her own formulation in her head and it never fit me. I knew she was wrong with her diagnosis because I had been helped in the past - what it came down to was that SHE was not able to help me, but she would not say that. And I felt angry.

Angry enough that I said "fuck it - I dont care what this costs, I am finding a decent bloody therapist that has a fucking CLUE and I am going to get myself better". That same day I went out and found a provate therapist specialising in compassion based CBT. The short time I spent with him lead us both to the conculsion that I was suffering from a personality disorder, and he WISELY asked one if his colleagues - my current therapist - if she could help. She had treated BPD OUTSIDE OF THE NHS - which was key, because its current attitude to BPD, as you have seen, sucks. It just is simply not set up to deal with the 'borderline borderlines' who are not turning up in the judicial system or drug rehab clinics (not to be mean to those that experience this - my anger is at the NHS not you guys). Having a therapy failure with the NHS is NOT a therapy failure in my opinion - you were in some ways doomed from the outset - you fell through the cracks.

Emma is fully trained in Schema for BPD - a key lack in James. Yes he had worked with BPD patients as a nurse )I think you mentioned) but that is NOT the same as an ongoing, informed treatment programme with proven effectiveness. James was 'winging' schema with you from the background of CBT - it was never going to be adequate for the phenomenal struggle which you face.

I do not presume to be able to tell you what to do now, and I know there are financial and personal reasons why the option that I am sure you have guessed I am going to make is difficult (but not impossible).

If it were me, I would get that list of schema practitioners, find the closest one with experience of treating BPD the schema way, and get on their books. You have tried the next easiest method (NHS therapy - 'easier' than simply suffering) and it has failed. But that does not mean that you are hopeless.

I know you have agoraphobia issues to work around - my suggestion is that you contact a schema therapist and tell them this to see what they suggest. THERE IS ALWAYS A WAY. I am sure that right now all you want to do is give up, and I dont think anyone would blame you if you did. But you have been down that road already, you know where it goes, you know where it leads. Schema is considered "the therapy you go to when CBT fails". I never said this to you at the time, but schema for BPD HAS to be done by someone with considerable experience in schema, and many many years of experience behind them, because of the serious EMOTIONAL challenges that BPD presents. James was neither propery trained nor seemingly up to the challenge, and the option on the table is to find someone who is. IN MY OPINION - that would be the best damn therapist you can find, and one who has the above credentials.

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what hurts is that James has fought and fought for me

he sat on the floor with me today and said how angry and ashamed he was that they have done this to me

he will see me next week as he has refused to let me go while I dont have a cpn

he heard all my pain today

he knows how hard I have tried

but the manager has just said - she is not ready for therapy- and he has to stop

Ray will be back soon so i have no idea how he will react

and all i have heard in my head, all afternoon

is 'well its your fault for making a fuss, you knew this would happen if you kept playing your little hurt game - now get some pills and get back to work

and stop being so silly - pull yourself together'

and say goodbye to whoever T might have been

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what hurts is that James has fought and fought for me

he sat on the floor with me today and said how angry and ashamed he was that they have done this to me

he will see me next week as he has refused to let me go while I dont have a cpn

he heard all my pain today

he knows how hard I have tried

but the manager has just said - she is not ready for therapy- and he has to stop

Ray will be back soon so i have no idea how he will react

and all i have heard in my head, all afternoon

is 'well its your fault for making a fuss, you knew this would happen if you kept playing your little hurt game - now get some pills and get back to work

and stop being so silly - pull yourself together'

and say goodbye to whoever T might have been

Ok perhaps I was hard on James - but the rest of what I said is still true. Yes - medication may be something you need right now. I would say make that a priority. I was told I might like to try Sertraline, having been on Effexor, Seroxat, Citalopram and Reboxetine. Mabbe go for sertraline. Give yourself some time to let this sink in, and see what happens with James. But in the meantime if it were me I would be lining up another therapist right now.

How can you be not ready for therapy? What do they want you to do, go away and get a bit better all on your own and return when you are WELL ENOUGH to have therapy? Im sorry - but that is the NHS for you - uncaring, finance driven and utterly nonsensical.

You know me, Im always in thos corner fighting away for you. Feel free to ignore me, I know I blither. Just want you to find something new - what T might have been still can be, its just some people who should know better have tossed her aside. This is a COMMON EXPERIENCE - not one unique to you for being 'bad' - no matter how much you belive it :)

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well there we are

poor Ray has been driving home from derbyshire (to sussex) and gets bac to get all this shit thrown at him

he just keeps saing well now what

so do they think you should be on meds, then is that it

I know its shit coming home to all this

but I dont want meds

but i think it may be a form of self harm, to stop myself feeling better

yer yer

give her pills so we can put up with who she is - so we can make her like us

i dont know

just endless badness

and i have a headache and being sick and dont know if it because i was banging my head agianst the wall when i was with james, because of crying all day or because of not eating

but what is the point in feeling better just to be wht everyone else wants me to be

what is the point to any of it anyway

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well there we are

poor Ray has been driving home from derbyshire (to sussex) and gets bac to get all this shit thrown at him

he just keeps saing well now what

so do they think you should be on meds, then is that it

I know its shit coming home to all this

but I dont want meds

but i think it may be a form of self harm, to stop myself feeling better

yer yer

give her pills so we can put up with who she is - so we can make her like us

i dont know

just endless badness

and i have a headache and being sick and dont know if it because i was banging my head agianst the wall when i was with james, because of crying all day or because of not eating

but what is the point in feeling better just to be wht everyone else wants me to be

what is the point to any of it anyway

Huggle

Tis all I have just now :(

Ross

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Hugs Walker

I know how awful it is to lose your therapist. I can't help but thinking that Ross is right and that james was not experienced enough to really help you no matter how well meaning he was. You must not let this stop you seeking for the help you need. Do you have a psychiatrist in charge or your care- you make it all sound very piecemeal as though there is no care plan? To get me through the worst times, I had to see the prospect of change and I needed the hope that therapy could help me. Did you write on another thread what James said to you?

I am so sorry. I hope your cpn is able to support you. I think that when you have a relationship and a job (even if you are off) many of the medics just refuse to see you are sick.

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wish i had something useful to offer. but i know how it feels when it seems that things are being ripped away from you like this.

im glad james is sticking with you until you can get a cpn. best of luck hun

thinking of you

xxx

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you are such kind people

i dont have a cpn as i refused to see her in aug. when she told me she didnt want me crying.

james has brought it up at 3 meetings now, and they still havent reallocated

my care plan is shit

the psych saw me once, then i demanded a second meeting which came through 5 weeks later

i waited and argued that i only wanted james there with me

when it came

the psych left the building 5 mins before - claiming he had double booked

so fuck them

I know why

its because they think i am making it bad on purpose because i refuse meds, so they write me off cos i dont play their little games

i know i have donte things in my life, I know i have been functioning, i know that pills made me feel better

i know they would again

but i know that i have been full of hurt, frustration, emptiness, confusion - and they are always returning to haunt me

meds will not give me back who i lost 40 years ago, they will not

they will leave me trapped and smiling and keeping everyone else feeling happy

there is no love in this life

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There comes a point when you are so sick of feeling bad that you will do anything and everything to get better. I think that usually involves putting your trust in someone or something else.

Your family loves you---You just can't feel love.

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perhaps I should just go, as i clearly i am not ill

so i was right all along

i have made it all bad and they have seen straight through me

and now i am being punished

so I am sorry for all you guys who have been so kind

you are truly wonderful people

but I am not true

and so I will leave

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perhaps I should just go, as i clearly i am not ill

so i was right all along

i have made it all bad and they have seen straight through me

and now i am being punished

so I am sorry for all you guys who have been so kind

you are truly wonderful people

but I am not true

and so I will leave

Dont you dare go leaving! :(

You belong here just as much as anyone - its just its much harder right now for you to take the first steps, and you have been handed a real bum deal by your carers. This is not game over, and I dont care what you say to convince me otherwise, I know that you are "redeemable" and that this horrible grip of self-condemnation can be broken.

Stay on this site or I will come round and flick ants at you. Or something

Ross

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Walker please dont go, we want you here. I have to go and get my daughter from school now and then my son has a camhs appoint so i will be back later.

Take care and keep safe xxx

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it doesnt matter

I am not ill

I am just a sad middle aged woman looking for attention - who creates hell when she doesnt get it

see me for wht I am

People here have pdocs, get referrals, get taken seriously

I dont

they know I am a joke

they know

there is nothing wrong with me

If there was, then I would be breaking down over yesterday, but Im not

Im relieved I dont have to pretend anylonger,

I am not suicidal, or depressed, or angry, or irrational, - nothing

I shall go bac to work asap

and forget about the last 8 months

and get on with my life

and a certain person on here was absolutely 100% right

all I do is spread misery and dissatisfaction

forget it

I am not ill

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it doesnt matter

I am not ill

I am just a sad middle aged woman looking for attention - who creates hell when she doesnt get it

see me for wht I am

People here have pdocs, get referrals, get taken seriously

I dont

they know I am a joke

they know

there is nothing wrong with me

If there was, then I would be breaking down over yesterday, but Im not

Im relieved I dont have to pretend anylonger,

I am not suicidal, or depressed, or angry, or irrational, - nothing

I shall go bac to work asap

and forget about the last 8 months

and get on with my life

and a certain person on here was absolutely 100% right

all I do is spread misery and dissatisfaction

forget it

I am not ill

Shame that you havent looked into the private schema route, but if you think that you really arent ill then you are the best judge of that

Best of luck with whatever you decide

By the way, if you ever do come back to it, go and have a read of the whole Dependence Lifetrap chapter in your Reinventing Your Life book. I think you will find some passages in there that pretty much could have been written about your life (I mean this in a good way but maybe you wont take it like that)

Ross

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