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Empathy And Identifying With Outsiders


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I would just like to share some things I have realised about myself which I have found complicated and uncomfortable but... helpful to understand.

I have had some realisations recently about empathy. It is a characteristic of my personality disorder that I have little empathy for other people, I am mostly concerned about my own problems.

Several people in the past (e.g. nurses) have told me that I don't care about other people at all. Recently, through counselling, I have realised that I do sometimes have empathy, but its only very brief.. maybe for a second or two. Then, my feelings turn back to worrying about my own problems. This realisation has helped me a lot.

Then I noticed that I occasionally have more empathy for some people. However, it tends to be unpopular people like outsiders and underdogs, and people who are disliked by everyone. For example, people with behaviour problems or fat cat executives that are being vilified at the moment for receiving big bonusses despite the recession.

:trigger:

Another example is paedophiles; I sometimes feel sorry for them. I must say that I am not, and have never been a paedophile, and I find the idea of what they do unpleasant, as well as morally wrong, and I do not condone it. However, I sometimes feel sorry for them. They do not ask to be paedophiles, and I am sure that they cannot help having the urges. I am sure that some of them struggle against those urges every day and have very little support, or friendship. When they abuse children they make a choice, sure, but they are confronted with that choice every day. I am a person of very little self-discipline, if I had the same urges as a paedophile, would I be able to resist them? Possibly not.

I had to think why I have empathy with these sorts of people and I think it is because I can identify with them, in the sense that I have always felt like an outsider whom nodody else really understands. I feel like it is me against the world.

I have little empathy for babies, because babies do not offer me anything. And, I can't identify with them.

It is possible that I want to be different to people, so I support with the people that nobody else does. I struggle to get a payoff in life through being "normal", e.g. I have very few friends. So, I try and be different and the oddball. I don't really understand this properly so I am going to think about this some more.

These are useful realisations to me. Perhaps I can use them to:

  • Feel more empathy for people by focussing on what we have in common maybe, this might not work but I can give it a go.
  • Avoid falling into the trap of supporting destructive people.
  • Avoid falling into the other trap (perhaps without realising it) of being too harsh with people that I struggle to identify with.

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I think that makes perfect sense that you feel emphaty for people that you identify with on some level.

Im doing better now in general but when I was worse off all I could do was talk about myself and focus on myself. I do not think I was selfisch I think I just needed every ounce of energy I had to survive the hell I was in.

Do you think maybe this is part of what you are struggling with??

Lilly

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Sometimes people can have too much empathy or at the wrong time, so that it excludes there own self and neglects their own problems. I think if you are going through a particularly problematic time yourself that it is very important to focus on yourself to get well or to solve the problems.

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Im the opposite, vry empathtic. it becomes alot easier to empathise, and probably more important behave comapssionately towards other when you have those feelings towards yourself and your past. if you cant feel empathy for a baby then its probably because your blocking off feelings you have about when you were a baby, and the only reason i know of for anyone to do this is to avoid feeling repressed pain and terror.

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My basic personality is one of optimism and I empathise with just about everyone and foolishly run headlong into friendships that just end up hurting me as I realise these people are more interested in themselves and I have been a fool, yet again. However, life experiences have made me untrusting and cold and I have learnt to see the negative in everything. I see this, not as a failing, but as a road that I must walk. Maybe one day I will be worthy. Maybe one day the inner conflict will cease.

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Hi

I sometimes feel very selfish on the empathy thing, when i am in a crisis i need all of the empathy i can get, including my own i guess and this makes it hard for me to empathise with anyone else. I hate it when i am talking about something difficult and somebody who has maybe abused/hurt me says that they understand, grrrrr, makes me mad.

I kinda feel a little blank around babies myself though i do have a son, maybe thats why i struggle with him sometimes, my own childhood??.

I also find myself swinging the other way, if somebody is depressed or has been hurt i can empathise well or to the point where i feel their pain!!, this then causes me problems as i end up depressed.

I can empathise with most people, even strangers but not people who have hurt me or people that remind me of them xxxx

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find I have empathy for people that struggle to communicate ie:

A boyfriend that struggled to verbalize most all his thoughts. I wanted to be the patient one in his life, that didn't get bothered by his silence and turn away.

The women in my BPD group that lack the vocabulary to express their thoughts intelligently, I could see they were really trying and it pained me to watch.

People that lack awareness as to what is actually troubling them, especially teens and children that act out because they cannot sort their emotions and thoughts to speak them.

Toddlers having a tantrum, it pains me to see them feeling pain, shame, and sadness. Their distress is something I can identify with and I want to jump in and calm them in some way.

I come from a very tight lipped family. I have both been told that I lack empathy altogether and told that I am actually a very empathic person. When I took an emotional intelligence test, is suggested that empathy was one of the biggest areas of growth that needed to happen for me. So, who knows?

Sah

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I think "unhealthy obsessions" depends on opinion. For example, I have a great interest (possibly obsession) with mass murderers and serial killers. Some would call it an "unhealthy" obsession. I, however, would say it's healthy because it helps me feel less alone and keeps my own things in check for the most part.

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My basic personality is one of optimism and I empathise with just about everyone and foolishly run headlong into friendships that just end up hurting me as I realise these people are more interested in themselves and I have been a fool, yet again.

This pretty much sums up the root to why I am the way I am. I'm too trusting, too soon.. hence vicious cycle.

It's not possible for me to change the "being empathtic" aspect of my life, I thrive on trying to help others/ seeing them happy, often placing their needs above mine. I'm not a totally selfless person nor would I say that I'm selfish.Naturally, I want to be loved & cared for back. I'm needy at times but hey, normal human being traits!! I do need to change my "pushover" tendencies, being used etc. I seem to attract (apart from a few exceptions) hussy-type girlfriends. Friends that are cool at first but soon change into boyfriend-grabbing whores. Its probably why I prefer to hang out with my male friends..many times I've had a blast being the only gal on a lads night out.

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I think "unhealthy obsessions" depends on opinion. For example, I have a great interest (possibly obsession) with mass murderers and serial killers. Some would call it an "unhealthy" obsession. I, however, would say it's healthy because it helps me feel less alone and keeps my own things in check for the most part.

Agreed. A friend of mine is the same. Although I was shocked at first as they would openly discuss all the gory details during lunch breaks at work..basically to anyone that would listen.. I could see the fasination. Although I haven't read any books on said topic, I am transfixed when documentaries are on TV.

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if you cant feel empathy for a baby then its probably because your blocking off feelings you have about when you were a baby, and the only reason i know of for anyone to do this is to avoid feeling repressed pain and terror.

I wish that I did have feelings which were repressed, because then when I discovered the reasons why I have repressed those, I might be able to break the habit.

Unfortunately, I just don't have the feelings, so there is nothing to repress. I am 36 now and it has taken me decades to fully understand the reasons for this, they lie in my childhood. My mother saw to my every need and made me too dependent on her, and as a child I was taught that only I mattered, not anyone else. So, I missed out on the development of empathy for others.

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Well, I know this might seem boring and pedantic to some people but as we were discussing what empathy actually is, I went away and looked up some definitions:

Empathy

Empathy is the capability to share and understand another's emotion and feelings. It is often characterized as the ability to "put oneself into another's shoes," or in some way experience what the other person is feeling. Empathy does not necessarily imply compassion, sympathy, or empathic concern- http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Empathy

understanding and entering into another's feelings - http://wordnetweb.princeton.edu/perl/webwn?s=empathy

Compassion

Compassion is a profound human emotion prompted by the pain of others. More vigorous than empathy, the feeling commonly gives rise to an active desire to alleviate another's suffering. - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Compassion

A deep awareness of and sympathy for another's suffering. The humane quality of understanding the suffering of others and wanting to do something about it. - wordnet.princeton.edu/perl/webwn

Sympathy

Sympathy is a social affinity in which one person stands with another person, closely understanding his or her feelings. - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sympathy

Sharing the feelings of others (especially feelings of sorrow or anguish. A relation of affinity or harmony between people; whatever affects one correspondingly affects the other; "the two of them were in close sympathy" - wordnet.princeton.edu/perl/webwn

Empathetic Concern

Empathic concern refers to other-oriented emotions elicited by and congruent with the perceived welfare of someone in need. These other-oriented emotions include feelings of tenderness, sympathy, compassion, soft-heartedness, and the like. Empathic concern is often and wrongly confused with empathy. To empathize is to respond to another's perceived emotional state by experiencing feeling of a similar sort. Empathic concern or sympathy not only include empathizing, but also entails having a positive regard or a non-fleeting concern for the other person. - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Empathic_concern

So, I suppose I do have empathy since I can put myself in people's shoes. Perhaps what I lack is compassion or sympathy. This is something more for me to think about!

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I think "unhealthy obsessions" depends on opinion. For example, I have a great interest (possibly obsession) with mass murderers and serial killers. Some would call it an "unhealthy" obsession. I, however, would say it's healthy because it helps me feel less alone and keeps my own things in check for the most part.

Or perhaps the time spent on the "obsession" is actually creating the sense of being alone? If one were to spend more time trying to be in tune with oneself then the need to "obsess" outside of self would lessen and would help create more sense of wholeness??

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I have had some realisations recently about empathy. It is a characteristic of my personality disorder that I have little empathy for other people, I am mostly concerned about my own problems.

I've been working on my self absorption and the tendency to keep everyone at a distance as a defense. I would project my harsh self judgements onto those around me and create a hostile environment for myself. In that state of mind, everyone else seems to be in agreement and in control; they're in a position of strength and there's no cause for me to feel empathy.

I've had some success getting past this using metta meditaton (the metta in Mettaman). The technique is easy to learn; it's explained in Sharon Salzberg's books. You cultivate an attitude of kindness during the practice that stays with you the rest of the day. It eases the feelings of isolation and loneliness and makes you more willing to reach out to others.

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I've had some success getting past this using metta meditaton (the metta in Mettaman). The technique is easy to learn; it's explained in Sharon Salzberg's books. You cultivate an attitude of kindness during the practice that stays with you the rest of the day. It eases the feelings of isolation and loneliness and makes you more willing to reach out to others.

That sounds so nice, MettaMan.

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Or perhaps the time spent on the "obsession" is actually creating the sense of being alone? If one were to spend more time trying to be in tune with oneself then the need to "obsess" outside of self would lessen and would help create more sense of wholeness??

Ok I'm having trouble understanding what your talking about, but I get the impression you are making assumptions about me. Stop it. I guarantee I spend more time in my head than you do.

But if you really want to know, being homicidal and a severe sadist in a society full of peace mongers creates the sense of being alone. Reading about other homicaidal, sadistic people is kind of like people with bpd talking on here.

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being homicidal and a severe sadist in a society full of peace mongers creates the sense of being alone. Reading about other homicaidal, sadistic people is kind of like people with bpd talking on here.

I sometimes have sadistic thoughts (as well as masochistic ones). My counsellor says that it is possibly a way of establishing an emotional connection with people. Since I am unable to get that connection through "normal" ways, I explore the exchange of emotions such as power, control, fear and pain that you have in a dominant/submissive scenario.

Also, I think these thoughts are about trying to express my anger and need to control my environment.

Also, I wonder if I sometimes like to cultivate the idea of being a weirdo. Emotionally, it has some payoffs, e.g. "I am special since I am weird... I can't help it I am a weirdo".

I thought I'd share these ideas about me but I am not going to assume that they apply to you, Ocean Wolf, in case you slay me in a bloodbath :):excl:

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i have to say that me obsessing about serial killers and forensics is about me exploring the part of me that no one else wants to accept, the homicidal, sadistic side. i look for answers, i feel less alone because i am not being told by others that i am abnormal for thinking and feeling these things. people came here looking for something, wanting to know that they were not alone, that others felt the same. if someone took away this place then many of us would feel alone, if someone took away my books/films/documentaries etc then i would feel alone too. i can definitely relate to what you said Ocean.

xxx

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lol That is something to think about. I don't know if mine is for emotional connection, but it's quite possible it's for some kind of communication connection. I know that some of it is revenge based, so...

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  • 2 months later...

When they abuse children they make a choice, sure, but they are confronted with that choice every day. I am a person of very little self-discipline, if I had the same urges as a paedophile, would I be able to resist them? Possibly not.

i read only a few posts/people and as much as i agree with certin bits of the post i cannot even think about {the above] anybody that agrees or can understand them should be put down! no second chance no sticking them in menatl hospital, wipe them off the face of the earth and yes i would do it for fun before anybody asks if they could take a life!

3rules of living my life..............

1- never hit a woman or kids

2- never take drugs

3- never take from others

any other "rules" are to be broken

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{the above] anybody that agrees or can understand them should be put down!

So what exactly are you saying here, that I should be put down?

3rules of living my life..............

1- never hit a woman or kids

2- never take drugs

3- never take from others

any other "rules" are to be broken

I have two rules

1. Obey the law

2. Do what I think is right

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