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Invalidation As Trigger For Anger


hummm_mabbe

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But yet when it comes to standing up for myself, the FEELING is that I cannot be sure if I have got an accurate assessment of what is happening - whether or not there is any need to assert myself, and if by doing so, it is going to cause problems. This is just a feeling that comes up, like a confusion and a panic.

yes

except

i am crap at standing up for myself - as i seem to respond like a young angry child - not what people expect when they see a middle aged woman.

I will cry or swear or say something which i am told is innapropriate

i just lose myself in that moment - control - GONE - then instantly grabbed back so they dont see

occasionally i have responded with control, adult, insight, but could prob count those times on one hand - they often stick in my head as its like i am actually playing the part of a grown up.

mostly - like you - i bury it, let it burn inside, let the hurt get as far as my mouth and swallow it down

Yup thats pretty much me too! :(

Ross

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But yet when it comes to standing up for myself, the FEELING is that I cannot be sure if I have got an accurate assessment of what is happening - whether or not there is any need to assert myself, and if by doing so, it is going to cause problems. This is just a feeling that comes up, like a confusion and a panic.

yes

except

i am crap at standing up for myself - as i seem to respond like a young angry child - not what people expect when they see a middle aged woman.

I will cry or swear or say something which i am told is innapropriate

i just lose myself in that moment - control - GONE - then instantly grabbed back so they dont see

occasionally i have responded with control, adult, insight, but could prob count those times on one hand - they often stick in my head as its like i am actually playing the part of a grown up.

mostly - like you - i bury it, let it burn inside, let the hurt get as far as my mouth and swallow it down

could you find a way to let the little child react to this without reacting infornt of the person? like letting the little one scream it all out to a trusted person, or write it all, or say it here. often if we go with the past feelings and let them have space it becomes easier to deal with the here and now ones in a way that is more likely to get us heard

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returns to earlier response bout not wanting to post here cos typed word gets misunderstood and u cant explain straight away... and i hate that what i am trying to say doesnt come across like i want it to.

glad you could see behind your interpretation of what i wrote, through to the person behind the words and thank you for calling me nice...

of course now i am reading and reading your reply and noticing things like you are not "deeply" pissed with me - implying that yuo are in some way "pissed" with me... BUT that is MY insecurity showing through and probably not what you meant either...

I think i will go back to just huggin and agreeing... at least for a while...

o and for the record - i still like you and i'll look out that thing to send you when i get home...

LOL OMG yup we are both the same ... no not peed at you at all! In a way, this is good therapy for both of us, cuz its actually putting the whole subconscious process on display. When we do that, I guess we are bound to get those horrid feelings come up too.

Just to re-iterate, not angry, peed, upset or nuthen at all, in fact glad that we said it all out loud! **big cathartic sigh**

Huggles and stuff are good

Ross

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But yet when it comes to standing up for myself, the FEELING is that I cannot be sure if I have got an accurate assessment of what is happening - whether or not there is any need to assert myself, and if by doing so, it is going to cause problems. This is just a feeling that comes up, like a confusion and a panic.

yes

except

i am crap at standing up for myself - as i seem to respond like a young angry child - not what people expect when they see a middle aged woman.

I will cry or swear or say something which i am told is innapropriate

i just lose myself in that moment - control - GONE - then instantly grabbed back so they dont see

occasionally i have responded with control, adult, insight, but could prob count those times on one hand - they often stick in my head as its like i am actually playing the part of a grown up.

mostly - like you - i bury it, let it burn inside, let the hurt get as far as my mouth and swallow it down

could you find a way to let the little child react to this without reacting infornt of the person? like letting the little one scream it all out to a trusted person, or write it all, or say it here. often if we go with the past feelings and let them have space it becomes easier to deal with the here and now ones in a way that is more likely to get us heard

Thats what I try to do at the moment - leave some time to listen to little me, and his anger and hurt, but not stream it out at the person at the time otherwise I am too emotional. Currently I dont always get to a point where I actually tell them, though I may talk to someone else about it so the feelings are heard. I guess this is one of those baby steps that are so important :)

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Huggly Wuggleys are Goooooooooooood

Feelin all mature now too... yay go us!

Enough therapy for today tho - ima all "felt" out - i think i will do some work now... is what they pay me to do here i guess...!

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Enough therapy for today tho - ima all "felt" out - i think i will do some work now... is what they pay me to do here i guess...!

LOL

This is an unfortunate side effect of hanging around with therapy hippies like me that wanna get you feeling stuff! Sorreeee ...

Ross

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i write

i cry hiding in loo, or out with dog

little t is not welcome

not anywhere

in real life

no one wants her

they say she is rude and miserable

she tries to trust her gp

there is no one else

the mh team dont want her they hate her, want to drug her and crush her back into my head

they tell her lies -

yes

invalidation

constantly - we hear you - its ok - but no no no - they hear the bit of her they dont like

no one wants her

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But yet when it comes to standing up for myself, the FEELING is that I cannot be sure if I have got an accurate assessment of what is happening - whether or not there is any need to assert myself, and if by doing so, it is going to cause problems. This is just a feeling that comes up, like a confusion and a panic.

yes

except

i am crap at standing up for myself - as i seem to respond like a young angry child - not what people expect when they see a middle aged woman.

I will cry or swear or say something which i am told is innapropriate

i just lose myself in that moment - control - GONE - then instantly grabbed back so they dont see

occasionally i have responded with control, adult, insight, but could prob count those times on one hand - they often stick in my head as its like i am actually playing the part of a grown up.

mostly - like you - i bury it, let it burn inside, let the hurt get as far as my mouth and swallow it down

could you find a way to let the little child react to this without reacting infornt of the person? like letting the little one scream it all out to a trusted person, or write it all, or say it here. often if we go with the past feelings and let them have space it becomes easier to deal with the here and now ones in a way that is more likely to get us heard

Thats what I try to do at the moment - leave some time to listen to little me, and his anger and hurt, but not stream it out at the person at the time otherwise I am too emotional. Currently I dont always get to a point where I actually tell them, though I may talk to someone else about it so the feelings are heard. I guess this is one of those baby steps that are so important :)

i swear like a trooper irl. i would never swear at somebody, unless i lost the plot but hasnt happened in yrs, but i will go to a friend and swear like crazy bout someone who has made me mad, i say the most vicous things its horrid, but its kinda like just letting the feelings out, then i often feel calmer and more capable to deak with the person, i also often feel like i can view them more as a person rather than just black and white once iv given a free rein to the upset

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i write

i cry hiding in loo, or out with dog

little t is not welcome

not anywhere

in real life

no one wants her

they say she is rude and miserable

she tries to trust her gp

there is no one else

the mh team dont want her they hate her, want to drug her and crush her back into my head

they tell her lies -

yes

invalidation

constantly - we hear you - its ok - but no no no - they hear the bit of her they dont like

no one wants her

little t you are wanted here i'll happy listen any time im around if you want a safe space

cudls for youxxxx

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Hi walker

Just want to say, i do hear you, and I know it hurts. I want very much for it not to hurt, just dont know what to say to help. Wish I did, T. Do understand a bit though, prolly could never fully know what its like inside, but I hope I understand a little bit. Maybe slowly YOU can come to like and love little T, even if others dont ...

My T asked me to draw a picture for little me, or write him a poem, say goodnight to him and stuff and try to see him as a little babbie, feel his little feet and his chubbie skin. Forget about parents, or other people - just me and little ross together. Trying to get in touch with him a bit.

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Enough therapy for today tho - ima all "felt" out - i think i will do some work now... is what they pay me to do here i guess...!

LOL

This is an unfortunate side effect of hanging around with therapy hippies like me that wanna get you feeling stuff! Sorreeee ...

Ross

nah... ima jus dont wanna feel stuff... too uncomfortable and scary... have to tho... jus prefer runnin away...

baby steps rite?

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ty

not related to topic (when i was having panic attack in friends house other day/night, laid in bed holding my own hand trying to hold her - trying to talk to her - v v hard - her emotions rule me - grown up tries to control her)

the family see what they see - little t is not validated

then sometimes my parents say things to validate and we get confused cos we thought they didnt but now they do

like u said Ross - most of the time they tell me in my head its all lies - that i have NEVER been invalidated - that its all nonsense

oh so confused

too young in head today

hide it from others

let her out here

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nah... ima jus dont wanna feel stuff... too uncomfortable and scary... have to tho... jus prefer runnin away...

baby steps rite?

Baby steps indeedy! Chat to Roxy too, shes a lot further ahead with this stuff than I am, been through a lot of the sticking points and difficulties. For me its still fairly new, and with the "little me" stuff its all only just starting to make sense. Mindfulness took a long time to make sense to me, again its all about that being able to be with those feelings as they arise, plus having a T who is there for them too etc etc etc stuff stuff.

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ty

not related to topic (when i was having panic attack in friends house other day/night, laid in bed holding my own hand trying to hold her - trying to talk to her - v v hard - her emotions rule me - grown up tries to control her)

But you did try a little bit, and thats whats important. On some level, Little T will know you were trying to be her friend. Little Me knows when Im not being his friend - when I go along with the demands to be more than I am, to make the weak feelings go away, to "just" get over it etc. Thats when little me runs away, because Im not listening to him. Its very hard to separate the "I" from the "little" though - I almost resented mine, like "why should I pay attention to him? I need attention!". I also saw him as the source of my "weakness". Thats changing now though :)

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am finding whole STEPPS therapy experience invalidating

they say nice things - oh yes thats ok - we understand - blah blah

but then they say distract, distance, balance

to me

i hear

be quiet - stop making a fuss - stop being negative - get on with your life

i HATE IT

im not f*cking stupid - i KNOW how to be healthy - but it does not stop me hating me, or being a failure, or scared, or anxious, or angry

or

just

plain

bloody

useless

sorry to go off on one Ross - i seem to see invalidation in every breath, every crack in the road, every leaf on a tree, it is my constant companion and fear

when we have been victims of invalidation we are vulnerable to being constatly triggered by it. important thing is both realities are true, we are over reacting because it has triggered past feelings, but also that the present day trigger itself is invalidation

if they 'understood' like the say then they wouldnt make useless suggestions.

im not the worlds biggest fan of distraction techniques, they have their place admittedly, but emotions dont react well to manipulation, and will come back with vengence. using distraction for an evening to keep yourself safe until help at say the t appointment in the morning makes perfect sence, but distraction for a life time, never going to help

sorry these people are so uselessxxxx

Wow I have spent years thinking it was just me being stupid, and not dong things right.

nah... ima jus dont wanna feel stuff... too uncomfortable and scary... have to tho... jus prefer runnin away...

baby steps rite?

Me too, but I am tired of running. Just can't seem to face the stuff.

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nah... ima jus dont wanna feel stuff... too uncomfortable and scary... have to tho... jus prefer runnin away...

baby steps rite?

Baby steps indeedy! Chat to Roxy too, shes a lot further ahead with this stuff than I am, been through a lot of the sticking points and difficulties. For me its still fairly new, and with the "little me" stuff its all only just starting to make sense. Mindfulness took a long time to make sense to me, again its all about that being able to be with those feelings as they arise, plus having a T who is there for them too etc etc etc stuff stuff.

i dont think its quite that simple, i dont thinks theres like a liner arrangement on healing or whatever the word, think it goes at different rates all thie time for different people and depends on many different things, goes backwards and forwards and is kinda an on going thing rather than a journey with a destination

but im quite happy to chat anyways

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I would love to comment on it all, but am feeling very sleepy right now.

I will however, give you the link to a website that i have found to be extremely helpful in terms of invalidation.

Have a read, and see what you think.

http://eqi.org/invalid.htm

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I would love to comment on it all, but am feeling very sleepy right now.

I will however, give you the link to a website that i have found to be extremely helpful in terms of invalidation.

Have a read, and see what you think.

http://eqi.org/invalid.htm

LOl sleepy, like a small hibernating thing. Aww.

Thanks for the site, will have a read, looks good!

Ross

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I would love to comment on it all, but am feeling very sleepy right now.

I will however, give you the link to a website that i have found to be extremely helpful in terms of invalidation.

Have a read, and see what you think.

http://eqi.org/invalid.htm

hope you get nice sleep

iv seen this website before, but cant for the life of me member (fricken dissociation), but i do seem to emmeber its real good so will read a agins, thankx

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Holy crap

That site is AWESOME

In fact this whole thread has been pretty cool. Not bein big-headed, I mean cos of the places it has gone, not just because I started it :lol: Have learned some extremely important things

Mabbe it will keep being awesome. I should be quiet, so as not to jinx it.

:mellow:

Ross

EDIT: I cannot believe it - every single example of invalidation listed there, my mum did to me regularly. I cant belive how 'normal' I thought it was!! Now I understand why my T thinks my mum is one of the most invalidating people shes ever heard of ... AND ive only just begin to train my dad out of it, now im in my 30's. I was literally surrounded by it!

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ok i have def read this website before, i even recognise the references

but theres more on it now than i emmeber

i like the stuff about teh dark side of emotional intelligence, i idenify a fair bit cause used to manipulate people all the time, so it is interesting to see it in black and white (no pun intended)

yeah i agree this is a good thread, i think we had related threads a long while back, that i seem to member wobbels was big part of, bout invaildation and npd and attachment (seperate ones though)

attachment ofcourse is really important in light of validation/invalidation because the basis of the attachment process (responding, echoing, mirroring) is all about validating the childs experience, and a hell of alot of socially acceptable parenting is about invalidating the child as a means of maintaining control over them.

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In the light of this thread, this bit for me from the site was particularly helpful:

Defensiveness and Invalidation

All invalidation is a form of psychological attack. When we are attacked, our survival instinct tells us to defend ourselves either through withdrawal or counter-attack. Repteated withdrawal, though, tends to decrease our self-confidence and lead to a sense of powerlessness and depression. On the other hand, going on the offensive often escalates the conflict or puts us in the position of trying to change another person.

One sign of both high self-esteem and high EQ is the absence of either of these defensive responses. A healthier response, one which is both informative and assertive, without being aggressive, is to simply express your feelings clearly and concisely. For example, you might respond, "I feel invalidated," "I feel mocked," or "I feel judged."

How the other person responds to your emotional honesty will depend upon, and be indicative of:

( a ) how much they respect you

( b ) how much they care about you and your feelings

( c ) how insecure and defensive they are

( d ) how much they are trying to change or control you

All of this is information which will help you make decisions which are in your best interest.

I realise that I dont expect to be respected, that i dont expect people to care about my feelings, and that people want to control my feelings because they are too much. Some things to think about I guess ... I enever really seem to hit on the idea that they might be insecure or defensive though - that feels like a rationalisation, effectively lying to myself. "Oh the reason they are telling you youre overreacting is because they are insecure themselves". That one doesnt feel like it holds much water, as I kinna feel like everyone is always powerful and confident.

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Holy crap

That site is AWESOME

In fact this whole thread has been pretty cool. Not bein big-headed, I mean cos of the places it has gone, not just because I started it :lol: Have learned some extremely important things

Mabbe it will keep being awesome. I should be quiet, so as not to jinx it.

:mellow:

Ross

EDIT: I cannot believe it - every single example of invalidation listed there, my mum did to me regularly. I cant belive how 'normal' I thought it was!! Now I understand why my T thinks my mum is one of the most invalidating people shes ever heard of ... AND ive only just begin to train my dad out of it, now im in my 30's. I was literally surrounded by it!

why should you be training your dad out of it? hes the parent, he should be responsible for this, you shouldnt have to carry his burden. its important to say when something is invalidating, and if hes willing to listen thats great, but you shouldnt be responsible for him changing, because what happens when he doesnt? or doesnt change enough? or resorts to how hes allways been? your going to feel a failure and its a case of banging you head off a brick wall again. is this something you allways do? role reversal? is this replaying how things were when you were a kid? cause if it is it can be v dangerous, alot of us get stuck in repetition compulsions trying to 'fix' th relationship that hurt us as a child, and this often leaves us v vulnerable and at risk of getting hurt the exact same way we allways were. ofcourse sometimes the relationship can be fixed, but only if the parent does the work of their own accord otherwise it will continue to get all tied up with the same unmet needs as when little. you gota consentrate on yourself, and if your dad sorts himself out and sees things for how they are then great. if you drag him there the best case sanario youll end up with is woudering if hed have ever cared enough to bother of his own accord, and thatll just reaffirm all the bad messages stored up from this relationship when a kid

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In the light of this thread, this bit for me from the site was particularly helpful:

Defensiveness and Invalidation

All invalidation is a form of psychological attack. When we are attacked, our survival instinct tells us to defend ourselves either through withdrawal or counter-attack. Repteated withdrawal, though, tends to decrease our self-confidence and lead to a sense of powerlessness and depression. On the other hand, going on the offensive often escalates the conflict or puts us in the position of trying to change another person.

One sign of both high self-esteem and high EQ is the absence of either of these defensive responses. A healthier response, one which is both informative and assertive, without being aggressive, is to simply express your feelings clearly and concisely. For example, you might respond, "I feel invalidated," "I feel mocked," or "I feel judged."

How the other person responds to your emotional honesty will depend upon, and be indicative of:

( a ) how much they respect you

( b ) how much they care about you and your feelings

( c ) how insecure and defensive they are

( d ) how much they are trying to change or control you

All of this is information which will help you make decisions which are in your best interest.

I realise that I dont expect to be respected, that i dont expect people to care about my feelings, and that people want to control my feelings because they are too much. Some things to think about I guess ... I enever really seem to hit on the idea that they might be insecure or defensive though - that feels like a rationalisation, effectively lying to myself. "Oh the reason they are telling you youre overreacting is because they are insecure themselves". That one doesnt feel like it holds much water, as I kinna feel like everyone is always powerful and confident.

my automatic response to these would be to think if they were trying to change me then ha theyr seriously bloody stupid cause iv neva met anyone as stuborn as me

if they were feeling defensive and insecure i would feel mad cause i think i see this as an excuse, i dont want to be burdened by others emotional baggage, i have enough of my own, i especially react this way with regard to authority figures who maybe defensive or insecure. i think this is something i also apply to myself, i would feel horrificly guilty and angry at myself if i let my emotional crap hurt others in this direct way. ofcourse feeling this way hurts both me and others cause then i feel this impossible need to allways be trying to do right, and thats v tiring and causes tension and that replays onto others.

im not sure about the care one, i still find it strange taht people can actually care, i think in part i conditioned myself not to need care so i get all confused at that one.

and respect, well i think id be scared to find out that someone didnt respect me now, havent had any real repect in the past but certainly since adult i tend to come across people who do respect me alot and i guess in a little part thats why i feel better bout me, which ofcourse is to an extent false. i need to learn to seperate someones personal feelings for me (which i automaticly think stuff them) with their actions towarsd me, cause i would ofcorse feel bad if someone acted disrespectfully towards me, but admitting this is not the same as saying who i am depends on anothers opinion of me.

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