Invalidation As Trigger For Anger

[roxy222]

Thanks Roxy, but Im really not too worried about my dad.

ok good, you seem to have allways talked more bout your m

[roxy222]

oh shoot im seriously late to leave the house

enjoy the website rossx

[hummm_mabbe]

Thanks! Have a good evening :)

[Wobbles]

Glad you liked it Rossie Poo. I was amazed when i read it myself. It was like, holy crapola!!! Like yours, my mother fits into every category also and i always thought it normal. Until my T pointed out how invalidating she is, and then reading that site, and realising just how abusive and damaging chronic invalidation is from your primary care giver. You don't HAVE to be physically or sexually abused as a child, you don't have to experience a major traumatic event, it can simply be the emotional abuse from a fucked up, unfit mother that makes us develop these maladaptive behaviours, for survival (!) and as coping and defense mechanisms. Oh the clarity!!

I have cut all contact completely with my mother now, as of just recently after some very stressful events. Saying things like 'I don't like Wobbles, her father never did either' (My father comitted suicide 13 years ago). 'It's the BPD,She's just fucked in the head'.

Then calling my husband gutless and a bad parent for not wanting to put our son in the firing line of her venom. Telling me i need to accept the fact that my father killed himself, and that i was responsible for that. I was also responsible, as a child, for the way she treated me because of my behaviour. Needless to say, i expressed to her how unnacceptable and unforgiveable these things are and that she will never see her grandson or her daughter ever again.

When i told her i wanted to kill myself a few months after dad died, her response was a very angry 'Don't be stupid'. It was never spoken of again. SHe can't understand why i want nothing to do with her, or why i'm so 'fucked up', and certainly doesn't accept any grain of responsibility for how i am now and the difficulties i have. Huge examples of invalidation, but it also happened on a very small, subtle and chronic level, everyday of life since birth, invalidating my existence.

Reading that site has been vital to my therapeutic journey, as has been other recent revelations and progressions. I have finally begun to prize away my mothers talons from inside me. I am planning and designing my next tattoo to mark this, a symbol of rebirth, new beginnings, and 'Tabula Rasa' (thanks to placebo) meaning 'the slate that's been wiped clean'. I'm ridding myself of the beast that is her.

I have come to realise though that my husband is a very invalidating person, despite having also read the website..... how to tackle that, not sure yet. But the most important thing is that i'm learning how to validate myself, how to nurture myself, how to reparent, and grow from this.

I hope it can be just as influential for you too. Huggles xx

[roxy222]

wobbles you say 'simpley the emotional abuse'. in general it is often viewed as 'milder' probably cause people in general can be so in denial, but as someone who has been through all extreem forms of abuse the emotional stuff is by far the most truamatic of all, especially when coming from the primary care giver. all the stuff written on truama responses etc entirely applies to emotional abuse on its own cause that feels much more life threatening than anything else, and invalidation is the core part of emotional abuse and neglect

[walker]

have just read the website on invalidation

YEP

that was my childhood

YEP that is my marriage

and

the greatest greatest sadness of all

YEP that is also what i often did to my kids

because i DONT know how to validate

it does not come natuarlly to me

i do it a bit i guess

i try to let them feel what they feel and not dimish them - but it is too late since my daughter said the other day that i was always telling them --------shit i cant even recall what she said ------brain has shut it out -----but i know she meant i have invalidated them in their childhood

i have tried - tried to argue/reason/explain it out - to my parents as a child, to my husband, and to my parents for my children - but i always get stuck

i knew/know something is wrong - but just cant find the alternative

an example

when my daughter was little we were staying at mums and it was raining, or wet. We were going out for a walk and k wanted to wear shoes - nanny wanted her to wear wellies ( the sensible thing since it would be muddy) - k refused - mum (nanny) told her off saying dont be so silly normal children would just put wellies on and not make a fuss.

NORMAL CHILDREN !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! - K asked if she was not normal then, and I said ofcourse she was normal - but then i remember standing there dumb - because i just didnt know what to do next

i tried to tell my mum that just because she didnt want wellies on didnt make her abnormal

i tried to explain to k that wellies were a good option since it would be muddy

but

i was lost in that moment - i could see the pain in k, feel her confusion and rejection, knew there must be something else an alternative version of all this

but i just didnt know what it was

and i still dont, really

once i had a counsellor who would smile at me and say IT'S OK - those magic magic words - i used to keep them in my pocket - i would call him day and night for years, just to hear him say them

i try to say them now - to my kids

its ok to feel that, its ok to be angry, its normal to be that way

but shit

its so hard to move from that spot - and particularly with K - i have invalidated her so much that now she is stressed out, exhausted , overwhelmed, and in in constant conflict with herself

my whole family is invalidating

day after day after day

but how do i speak a different language

one that I have never been taught - or learnt

sorry if i am boring you all, or you have probably stopped reading by now - and this IS rosses topic

but i just feel it in my bones

dont make so much of everything, dont make a fuss, dont draw attention, dont look so miserable ...................

and K is SO much like my mother it is frightening

i recall as i got older - developing a method of trying to like things in a different way

since nothing was ever right

if i bought something, like clothes for eg, i would not look at them on the way home.

I would sit in the back of the car, touching the bag and telling myself over and over that i would NOT like them and that they would look bad

SO

when i finally DID put them on, they would feel better than i had told myself they would

i tried to teach myself that things were bad because then they could only be better

since things must have felt bad and I was being told they were all good

I was being told it was all me making a fuss - MAKING it bad

NOW

it is all bad

and i am such a damn mess

and my head wont stop arguing and arguing and arguing

and when it does = when i bury the feelings

[Villan]

started readin website

then started crying

You can't solve an emotional problem, or heal an emotional wound, with logic alone.

hmmm... so true...

thing is tho - I INVALIDATE MY OWN FEELINGS...

hmmm... gonna have to think about this some more...

[hummm_mabbe]

Hullo everybod

Sounds like that site had a pretty big impact, thanks for putting up the linkie Wobbles. For me, I have known for a long time that I was invalidated, but seeing it all put on the screen like that ... it was weird. I guess its like, you live in a world all your life and it comes to feel like thats just how things are, like living inside a blue fish bowl so you always think everything is blue, or mabbe you dont even have a concept of what "blue" is because there is nothing to compare it to, what with EVERYTHING being blue ...

So if you live in invalidation, you have no conecept you are being invalidated. Something just doesnt feel right, and you dont know what it is, because you are growing up emotionally blind. Then someone comes along and shows me that things can be another way, or I see it all written on that website - and then I have to face new emotions. Anger, exasperation, being overwhelmed, "what the hell do I do now?" - because the realisation of what was missing for so many years is absolute. In one sense it made me want to run away and not think about it, because of all the things it meant I would have to do, change, confront. In fact the one thing I didnt feel was sadness, I only felt anger, but then that is what I always feel towrds my mum. I know there is sadness in there somewhere, there must be. But then I guess the classic grieving process goes denial, anger, sadness, acceptance, transformation ... im just not sure how to get beyond anger with my mum.

I think the block is something to do with part of me still being stuck in that state of invalidation, and so therefore believing I was "too sensitive, melodramatic and making it all up". I guess I am still fluctuating between denail and anger with her ... I think I will keep re-reading that site and stuff, mabbe meditate on it cuz that seems helpful.

Ross

[walker]

thing is tho - I INVALIDATE MY OWN FEELINGS

OH YES INDEED

I KNOW IT SO WELL

[Sammy]

My mother was always an invalidating person and I used to rise to the bait all the time, but eventually I realised that this just caused further problems with me being the one to walk away feeling extremely hurt and emotional. Later in life I realised that if I just raised my eyebrows and thought 'here we go again' that I could ignore it for the most part although I no longer have any contact with her as I realise how toxic she is to me. I do think it was great progress for me to learn how to handle her narcissim though and then to later learn that it is better to walk away from people like this and cut them out of your life. As you said, some people might invalidate by mistake as a one off but I think often like you said some people are just like this as a person and will always invalidate others and make them feel bad.

I think it's good that you recognise your own triggers and are able to analyse them, however I would say not to over analyse them - what I mean is that when I tell myself something is a trigger, it is because it's something that is not really the other persons fault, it is my problem because I'm over sensitive to something, and I really don't think someone being invalidating is something that is my problem that I need to deal with, I really think this is a problem of the person doing the invalidating and that they should either be made aware of it and how it affects others so they can analyse themselves in order to change this behaviour, or be cut out of our lives if unwilling to make more effort.

Just my personal opinion.

[hummm_mabbe]

**comment removed by author**

[santi]

Some one on here told me I was invalidating the other day, i don't mean to be. Im just not very good with words and trying to get across what I mean is very hard

[hummm_mabbe]

Hi Santi

As Im sure many people on this site can relate to, if our experience is that we have been invalidated ourselves, its very hard to avoid doing it to others, even if we belive we "have got over it". Sometimes this can be in extremely subtle ways, as even this thread is testament to. Sometimes people say offensive things without realising how ironic or insensitive they are being, simply because it is their only point of reference. You at least recognise it and feel sorry for it, some people just carry on their merry way believing themselves to be correct.

[hummm_mabbe]

I guess what Im saying is - dont blame or hurt yourself if sometimes others feel you have been invalidating. Some psychologists call it "the circle of life" in that what we experiene, we are sometimes destined to act out. It doesnt mean we are bad, just that it is something we need to be aware of. Very often, it is ourselves that we invalidate the most, and accidentally doing it to others is just a surface indication that inside there is a storm blowing. That can be a message to ourselves that we need to be more validating to ourselves - and then the outer stuff will take care of itself.

Adding more judgement - "I am bad because I seemed invalidating" will only deepen the feelings and add shame, where really whats needed is that same self validation.

[Sammy]

Santi I think there is a HUGE difference between someone who invalidates unintentionally for whatever reason, say because they are not good with words or because as hard as they try they don't understand a given situation for example and someone who intentionally invalidates others to make themselves feel superior or because they are narcisstic or just to make someone else feel bad.

Of course I've been invalidated by lots of people at different times, but I can forgive/be more tolerant of those with no ill intention or who invalidate simply by mistake but not meaning to do so as oppose to people like my mother who seem to be their life purpose to make others feel bad about themselves.

For example, I was abused as a child and my mother said to me something along the lines of "even if it did happen it was probably your fault", there is no way something like this could be said innocently without intention to hurt and invalidate what I had been through.

On the other hand, there might have been occasions where I thought someone was out to get me and a friend might have made some comment about how they thought I was being paranoid or overactive imagination - I'm sure they were trying to help and had the best intentions and didn't intend to invalidate and so I feel that this can be discussed with the person or overlooked.

[Ruth24]

I've got so used to be invalidated, it doesn't really get to me anymore.

My sister told me everybody feels that way, you just feel it to the extreme-which is silly, so stop doing it. Too many people get diagnosed with BPD and she thinks it doesn't really exist (she is a GP).

My mum purposly tries to invalidate me. I just ignore her knowing she is a witch trying to wind me up

My husband used to do it, in fact still does when i see him.

I just ignore it now.

Won't rise to the bait

xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

[Wobbles]

wobbles you say 'simpley the emotional abuse'. in general it is often viewed as 'milder' probably cause people in general can be so in denial, but as someone who has been through all extreem forms of abuse the emotional stuff is by far the most truamatic of all, especially when coming from the primary care giver. all the stuff written on truama responses etc entirely applies to emotional abuse on its own cause that feels much more life threatening than anything else, and invalidation is the core part of emotional abuse and neglect

Roxy, you're so right!!! I'm so glad you picked up on that, as it has helped me see how i'm still invalidating myself and what i went through. That the emotional and psychological abuse, wasn't sexual or physical so it musn't be as valid, i have always felt the need to justify it and there have always been thoughts like 'Oh it wasn't that bad, get over it, stop being such a sook'. Etc.

It's not just simply emotional abuse, you're right, it's just as valid as any other type, and often far more damaging.

Thanks hun.

[Wobbles]

have just read the website on invalidation

YEP

that was my childhood

YEP that is my marriage

and

the greatest greatest sadness of all

YEP that is also what i often did to my kids

because i DONT know how to validate

it does not come natuarlly to me

i do it a bit i guess

i try to let them feel what they feel and not dimish them - but it is too late since my daughter said the other day that i was always telling them --------shit i cant even recall what she said ------brain has shut it out -----but i know she meant i have invalidated them in their childhood

i have tried - tried to argue/reason/explain it out - to my parents as a child, to my husband, and to my parents for my children - but i always get stuck

i knew/know something is wrong - but just cant find the alternative

an example

when my daughter was little we were staying at mums and it was raining, or wet. We were going out for a walk and k wanted to wear shoes - nanny wanted her to wear wellies ( the sensible thing since it would be muddy) - k refused - mum (nanny) told her off saying dont be so silly normal children would just put wellies on and not make a fuss.

NORMAL CHILDREN !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! - K asked if she was not normal then, and I said ofcourse she was normal - but then i remember standing there dumb - because i just didnt know what to do next

i tried to tell my mum that just because she didnt want wellies on didnt make her abnormal

i tried to explain to k that wellies were a good option since it would be muddy

but

i was lost in that moment - i could see the pain in k, feel her confusion and rejection, knew there must be something else an alternative version of all this

but i just didnt know what it was

and i still dont, really

once i had a counsellor who would smile at me and say IT'S OK - those magic magic words - i used to keep them in my pocket - i would call him day and night for years, just to hear him say them

i try to say them now - to my kids

its ok to feel that, its ok to be angry, its normal to be that way

but shit

its so hard to move from that spot - and particularly with K - i have invalidated her so much that now she is stressed out, exhausted , overwhelmed, and in in constant conflict with herself

my whole family is invalidating

day after day after day

but how do i speak a different language

one that I have never been taught - or learnt

sorry if i am boring you all, or you have probably stopped reading by now - and this IS rosses topic

but i just feel it in my bones

dont make so much of everything, dont make a fuss, dont draw attention, dont look so miserable ...................

and K is SO much like my mother it is frightening

i recall as i got older - developing a method of trying to like things in a different way

since nothing was ever right

if i bought something, like clothes for eg, i would not look at them on the way home.

I would sit in the back of the car, touching the bag and telling myself over and over that i would NOT like them and that they would look bad

SO

when i finally DID put them on, they would feel better than i had told myself they would

i tried to teach myself that things were bad because then they could only be better

since things must have felt bad and I was being told they were all good

I was being told it was all me making a fuss - MAKING it bad

NOW

it is all bad

and i am such a damn mess

and my head wont stop arguing and arguing and arguing

and when it does = when i bury the feelings

Walker, i have often read you invalidating yourself and what you're going through, your needs, emotions, and difficulties all because you didn't feel that what you went through as a child, was enough to warrant such problems. To warrant the help you were asking for. The support you needed.

I hope reading the website and this thread has helped you realise, like me, that because the things that most people would associate as being traumatic didn't have to us, such as the sexual and physical abuse, neglect etc, these are the things that society feel are damaging, traumatic and can understand us when things like that have happened. (That's not saying that those things are not traumatic, they are for sure). But as Roxy has pointed out and as i'm learning, the emotional and psychological abuse that invalidation so truly is to a child, is what we suffered, and is why we have the difficulties we have now, and that we are indeed VALID because of that.

Big hugs to you!!

[Wobbles]

**comment removed by author**

Ross, i'm really curious now as to what you had written. I'm not sure i'm going to be able to sleep because of it :)

[hummm_mabbe]

Hi Wobbles

Sorreeee

[Wobbles]

Simple and easy ways we all invalidate others, as well as ourselves are in our vocabulary everyday. Such as when someone tells us they've had a really bad day, how do we react? Knowing that we've had a bad day ourselves, do we always act in a sympathetic/empathetic, supportive, gentle, nurturing, loving way?

Or we do we often say something like 'Yeah my day's not been too good either'.

In relationships where we're comfortable, we don't always act in a validating and supportive way.

How many times have you told yourself to get over it, stop whinging, stop being so stupid, stop being pathetic, there's something wrong with you, other people can handle things like this, what's wrong with you, it's your own fault anyway. The list goes on and on and on.

I don't actually think it's possible for anyone to act in a way that is completely validating, all of the time. Life gets in the way, shit happens, and everyone is different. Sometimes we'll slip up, how often do we say the wrong thing to someone we love, only to realise after that we could have handled it so much better.

I don't think it's necessary to beat ourselves up everytime we do it. So long as we're mindful that maybe we're doing it, and try not to do it. Especially with our own children. And realise that it can't always be avoided.

I know there were many times my mother knew full well what she was doing. And it was chronic, everyday, every situation, my whole life, to me and the rest of the world. That is when it becomes abusive and damaging. A sort of CPTSD when it comes from your mother, it's traumatising, it's abusive, neglectful and so utterly damaging to a child.

Ross, when i read the website, i had a sense of relief. But also felt very sad, very sad for the little wobbles inside and just wanted to give her a big hug. I was so sad that the one person who was suppose to love me unconditionally, wasn't able to do that. That i'll never ever have that. But i've also realised with reading it that my problems are more valid than i initially thought, and it makes it easier to know what to ask for and hope for in future relationships, and what to avoid.

Anyway, need to stop rambling now.

[Wobbles]

Hi Wobbles

Sorreeee

i'm a nosey bugger

[walker]

oh how i wish and wish and wish and wish that i could accept this in my heart

[sanctuary]

Excellent topic. Invalidation is my biggest trigger and he rage is devastating.

I wish I could ignore the comments of those that invalidate.

I am learning though....

[Wobbles]

oh how i wish and wish and wish and wish that i could accept this in my heart

It will take time walker, start by practising having more compassion and empathy for yourself, and validate yourself more often. It's a great way to start, will feel silly to start with. Treat yourself as you would treat your kids, with love and kindness. You will get there xx