hummm_mabbe Posted September 24, 2009 Report Share Posted September 24, 2009 Not really sure how to put this into words. My T said I have been avoiding my depressed and sad feelings, which is true. Lately I have been getting in touch with them. I know why I avoid them now ... Do you ever feel something, and it seems so hopeless and so impossible to put into words others will understand, that you just dont want to even try? You know people will give advice, tell you its not that bad really, they believe in you and so on ... which is all well meant. Its that just that inside you want someone to just be there and accept your feelings of hopelessness. To realise just what a vertical climb it is you are facing, without that "one day at a time" sense of impatience ... I dunno. I know it isnt meant like that, and thats what makes it even harder to express - I feel bad to feel angry at others attempts to help. But at the same time I cant help but feel a gulf between how they see my situation, and the overwhelming feelings inside. I just want them to accept they are there, without trying to change them, give advice, tell me it'll all be ok. I just want to know that someone will LET me have that pain, and see just how big and difficult it is to face what I am facing. I feel too scared to even say this out loud, this is probably the first time I ever have. Normally I try so hard to be positive, and I find myself getting angry when people say how hopeless they feel .. and now I know why. Its because it makes me confront that same feeling in myself, the one I dont want to be real. Its not nice to feel these sensations - the despair, hopelessness, sadness, frustration. I know somehow Im meant to, its just hard to carry on through it when you have no absolute proof its going to do something ... I guess its taking it on trust that actually facing the thing I want most to get away from will help. Dunno. Just felt like I need to get this out... sorry if I might be a little oversensitive in my replies, talking about this really brings up those invalidation issues for me ... mabbe why I never usually go there. Ross Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roses Posted September 24, 2009 Report Share Posted September 24, 2009 Dear, dear Ross. Your feelings are valid, and heard and accepted my friend. I think it is the bittersweet taste of irony and fate you talk about. Like you need help, but you are not ready to accept the comfort or the love. That is OK. If you know where you are you have a starting place. So no soppy words today my dear, just honesty from me. xxxxxxxxx Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Villan Posted September 24, 2009 Report Share Posted September 24, 2009 i am going through exactly the same thing as you are... hurts like (bad word) want to run and hide but i have to face it you are right, no one can help cos no one totally understands what i mean by that is: i know the way I feel about what i am going through, but i have no idea how YOU feel, even though WE are going through the SAME process... i have tried to word this as careful as i can... if it reads like i am invalidating or judging then trus me is not written that way... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hummm_mabbe Posted September 24, 2009 Author Report Share Posted September 24, 2009 Hi Roses I guess its that I feel on some level there is no help that CAN make a difference ... its like, until someone truly knows how steep the climb feels, they cannot realise how hollow their advice sounds, how impossible carrying out their instructions is. I want help, I want acceptance ... I guess I want acceptance more than 'help'. Mabbe thats it .... I just want someone to sit and really understand what this feels like, what this has felt like for so long, and just accept it without wanting to change it - at least at first. I need to get to know it... I guess really I have been keeping it at bay, because I felt that these feelings would disturb others, upset them - that I HAVE TO get better, for their sake and its somehow a burden, a drain on them. I just want to go back to my family and say "see? all better, I have friends, I am happy, Im successful ... now you can accept me. i can be part of things again". Dunno, something like that Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peace7 Posted September 24, 2009 Report Share Posted September 24, 2009 Roses has more or less said what I would of liked to have said... Your feelings are valid and in everyway OK and I respect/ understand that as i'm sure most people here will.... xxxxx Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hummm_mabbe Posted September 24, 2009 Author Report Share Posted September 24, 2009 i am going through exactly the same thing as you are... hurts like (bad word) want to run and hide but i have to face it you are right, no one can help cos no one totally understands what i mean by that is: i know the way I feel about what i am going through, but i have no idea how YOU feel, even though WE are going through the SAME process... i have tried to word this as careful as i can... if it reads like i am invalidating or judging then trus me is not written that way... Yes I see what you are saying ... its like, human beings can empathise, but can never truly feel the pain another feels exactly as they do ... I dunno, thats not what I am asking of the world. Really I know what it is, its the fact I had to always forget about what I was feeling and protect mum from how I felt, and worry about her feelings instead ... I guess I just want someone who will give me that time with my feelings, without feeling I "must" get rid of them and remember "just how bad life is for her (mum)". Somehow those well meaning words of advice remind me of that - how it was just like "oh get rid of these annoying feelings Ross - dont you realise I have needs?" or "dont you see how trivial your feelings are compasred to mine?". Its like I want someone to show that my feelings are important enough, to show respect for them - not just in words, but in actions. I guess that action is to just be able to listen, and be there bodily whilst I feel it ... maybe need to bring this up with T .... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
piuma Posted September 24, 2009 Report Share Posted September 24, 2009 your feelings are very valid, because u are. ((((((((((((ross))))))))))))))))))) xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roses Posted September 24, 2009 Report Share Posted September 24, 2009 I know Ross. I completely understand and you are right. No-one can understand though until you do express those distrubing things. As I said, I think you have found the starting block - you want acceptance. This is good. xxxxx Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
x-Bliss-x Posted September 24, 2009 Report Share Posted September 24, 2009 I think it can be very frustrating when we want support but feel like no one will ever fully get how strong our emotions can be. The feeling of anger when people do try and help probably partly comes from knowing this. It's like "I don't want you to help because you still don't understand" even though it's because we can never seem to express the full extent of how we feel. Something my therapist has said is that I have to learn to live with the fact that no one will ever fully understand me, and it's only at that point will I be able to accept the help people CAN give. But obviously it's harder to see that when your in that place. Just know that we understand more than most as we experience it ourselves. As others have said though, you've every right to your feelings and shouldn't feel guilty/angry about having them. x-Bliss-x Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wobbles Posted September 24, 2009 Report Share Posted September 24, 2009 Deleted Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hummm_mabbe Posted September 24, 2009 Author Report Share Posted September 24, 2009 I know Ross. I completely understand and you are right. No-one can understand though until you do express those distrubing things. As I said, I think you have found the starting block - you want acceptance. This is good. xxxxx I suppose I want someone strong, who can just sit there and actually withstand the force of my feelings yanno? Someone who wont buckle, but will just be there like a calm support, that can contain all the pent up energy, no matter how it comes out. Whether it comes out as hysterical rage, crying, totally losing it ... someone who knows that its not aimed at them, its just a feeling that has to come out, and they are strong enough to let it happen. They dont need to control it, keep it at arms length ... they know the intensity of my emotions is not a threat to them. Its like the tiger with a thorn in its paw, and the mouse that comes along to pull it out. The tiger growls and thrashes around, but its because he hurts, not because he wants to hurt anyone ... I just want someone who will get that close to me, without caveats, without these demands that I protect them from my feelings. Because those feelings arent going to hurt them, they never were. I need a safe, padded place just to be able to feel it all, and someone who will not act as though the hurt or anger has anything to do with them, and so do not need to control it, place limits on it, channel it with technique. I am not violent, I am not aggressive - most of what I feel is just a despair, a powerlessness. I want to scream and cry and let it out. I dont break things, I dont threaten, I dont manipulate ... Oh I dont know. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Villan Posted September 24, 2009 Report Share Posted September 24, 2009 what is even worse - again for me - dunno bout you is that between the hours of 7:30 and 5:50 every weekday i have to put on my "happy face" mask and shove all the feelings down inside again whilst i am at work... not really giving them chance to come out and be listened to... meaning that alls i am feeling most of the time is empty... i would love to be able to just sit and be at one with myself for a decent length of time - but i struggle to do this in the hours between work and bed... the other hurdle i need to jump, and i guess you do too, is to really (and i mean REALLY) believe that our feelings ARE valid and we ARE worthy of our own care and attention... too many people throwing invalidating statements have kinda beaten that self-respect and self-worth out... acceptance for YUORSELF more than anything... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AveMaria Posted September 24, 2009 Report Share Posted September 24, 2009 Your feelings are always valid, and I'm sorry that your mom didn't understand that and made you suffer. Like has already been said, I can't know how you feel, except what you share. I do know you have suffered, but more importantly that you are persevering and someone to look up to. I don't think it is ever easy, especially for those who have high standards, to let themselves just feel. The idea that negative feelings aren't bad is something I haven't been able to internalize yet, it sounds like you are! xxx Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wobbles Posted September 24, 2009 Report Share Posted September 24, 2009 I know Ross. I completely understand and you are right. No-one can understand though until you do express those distrubing things. As I said, I think you have found the starting block - you want acceptance. This is good. xxxxx I suppose I want someone strong, who can just sit there and actually withstand the force of my feelings yanno? Someone who wont buckle, but will just be there like a calm support, that can contain all the pent up energy, no matter how it comes out. Whether it comes out as hysterical rage, crying, totally losing it ... someone who knows that its not aimed at them, its just a feeling that has to come out, and they are strong enough to let it happen. They dont need to control it, keep it at arms length ... they know the intensity of my emotions is not a threat to them. Its like the tiger with a thorn in its paw, and the mouse that comes along to pull it out. The tiger growls and thrashes around, but its because he hurts, not because he wants to hurt anyone ... I just want someone who will get that close to me, without caveats, without these demands that I protect them from my feelings. Because those feelings arent going to hurt them, they never were. I need a safe, padded place just to be able to feel it all, and someone who will not act as though the hurt or anger has anything to do with them, and so do not need to control it, place limits on it, channel it with technique. I am not violent, I am not aggressive - most of what I feel is just a despair, a powerlessness. I want to scream and cry and let it out. I dont break things, I dont threaten, I dont manipulate ... Oh I dont know. Ross, that is what your mum was suppose to do when you were little, she didn't, she wasn't able to, and you missed out. What you're needing is your mum. Your little Rossie wants his mum to hold him, wipe away his tears, and just let him sob into her knowing she'll be there for him. I know how that feels, it's what i was feeling today, i don't know if we'll ever find that. I'm learning to be that for myself, but sometimes i just need and want desperately to have that from someone else, without having to ask for it, without having to describe what i want, be disappointed when it doesn't happen the way i need it, and end up feeling even more hurt. Keep talking if you need to, you're making sense and we're listening. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hummm_mabbe Posted September 24, 2009 Author Report Share Posted September 24, 2009 I think it can be very frustrating when we want support but feel like no one will ever fully get how strong our emotions can be. The feeling of anger when people do try and help probably partly comes from knowing this. It's like "I don't want you to help because you still don't understand" even though it's because we can never seem to express the full extent of how we feel. Something my therapist has said is that I have to learn to live with the fact that no one will ever fully understand me, and it's only at that point will I be able to accept the help people CAN give. But obviously it's harder to see that when your in that place. Just know that we understand more than most as we experience it ourselves. As others have said though, you've every right to your feelings and shouldn't feel guilty/angry about having them. x-Bliss-x Yes thats right Its like, "how can you know what advice to give me, when you dont understand the problem?". I read something in a book on trauma treatments, and they were talking about when a therapist tells a patient to just try to trust. The author was saying how easy that is to say for a therapist that has not suffered trauma. He compared it to a man who invites you to step off a building with him, that by just holding your breath you will flooat down, and then saying "just trust me - come, lets step off the edge". Until the other person can understand what it really feels like to have fallen so many times and experience the broken limbs and trauma, they cannot possibly understand how pointless their "this time things will be different - you just have to take the risk and trust me" sounds. On top of that, it makes me feel that if I get to the edge and have a meltdown, they will not be able to understand why. I feel like I have read every book, and tried every trick and technique there is. I feel like I have heard every piece of advice there is. Instructions arent what I need, because if that were all it took, I would have done it 6 years ago. What I need is someone that truly understand the magnitide of the feelings - or will at least stop talking for long enough just to let me express it. Oddly, someones caring silence seems to be more important than what they say right now. Thank you x-bliss I think you kinna put it into words, what I was trying to say, a little better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hummm_mabbe Posted September 24, 2009 Author Report Share Posted September 24, 2009 what is even worse - again for me - dunno bout you is that between the hours of 7:30 and 5:50 every weekday i have to put on my "happy face" mask and shove all the feelings down inside again whilst i am at work... not really giving them chance to come out and be listened to... meaning that alls i am feeling most of the time is empty... i would love to be able to just sit and be at one with myself for a decent length of time - but i struggle to do this in the hours between work and bed... the other hurdle i need to jump, and i guess you do too, is to really (and i mean REALLY) believe that our feelings ARE valid and we ARE worthy of our own care and attention... too many people throwing invalidating statements have kinda beaten that self-respect and self-worth out... acceptance for YUORSELF more than anything... Hi ninjie Yeah thats it - like for me it was about achievement and all that. Put on the face, be exactly balanced - friendly but successful, not too arrogant but not a wimp ... the ultimate balance ... and that doesnt include all these completely unbalanced feelings, the sometimes almost hysterical feelings of sadness, anger and so on. I think you are right, just to keep experiencing and accepting... I guess the barrier to experiecne is that same feeling - that it will be invalidated, dismissed, belitled or just simply too much for anyone to handle. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hummm_mabbe Posted September 24, 2009 Author Report Share Posted September 24, 2009 Ross, that is what your mum was suppose to do when you were little, she didn't, she wasn't able to, and you missed out. What you're needing is your mum. Your little Rossie wants his mum to hold him, wipe away his tears, and just let him sob into her knowing she'll be there for him. I know how that feels, it's what i was feeling today, i don't know if we'll ever find that. I'm learning to be that for myself, but sometimes i just need and want desperately to have that from someone else, without having to ask for it, without having to describe what i want, be disappointed when it doesn't happen the way i need it, and end up feeling even more hurt. Keep talking if you need to, you're making sense and we're listening. I think so, yes. I know she could not handle my distress at all, I dont know why. It was like as soon as I got past a certain level of emotionality, she would start to think about herself, as though my feelings were aimed at her. Sometmimes they were, which meant double trouble ... I dont know why but if I got emotional enough, suddenly I would be hearing about how bad her childhood was, about what a rotten life she was having. It was like, i would have to forget about whatever I was angry or sad about, and defer to her "more hard done by than you" mentality. No pain I could ever experience would compare to her life, and as she was a victim, how dare I make her suffer by exposing her to my emotions ... so i felt like I had to rationalise and sanitise them, present my feelings in as flat and unemotional tone as I could, justify with logic why I am upset and almost negotiate for support. I felt sorry for her, I wanted to proect her and save her. I guess if I could save her, then she could be my mum again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wobbles Posted September 24, 2009 Report Share Posted September 24, 2009 Ross, that is what your mum was suppose to do when you were little, she didn't, she wasn't able to, and you missed out. What you're needing is your mum. Your little Rossie wants his mum to hold him, wipe away his tears, and just let him sob into her knowing she'll be there for him. I know how that feels, it's what i was feeling today, i don't know if we'll ever find that. I'm learning to be that for myself, but sometimes i just need and want desperately to have that from someone else, without having to ask for it, without having to describe what i want, be disappointed when it doesn't happen the way i need it, and end up feeling even more hurt. Keep talking if you need to, you're making sense and we're listening. I think so, yes. I know she could not handle my distress at all, I dont know why. It was like as soon as I got past a certain level of emotionality, she would start to think about herself, as though my feelings were aimed at her. Sometmimes they were, which meant double trouble ... I dont know why but if I got emotional enough, suddenly I would be hearing about how bad her childhood was, about what a rotten life she was having. It was like, i would have to forget about whatever I was angry or sad about, and defer to her "more hard done by than you" mentality. No pain I could ever experience would compare to her life, and as she was a victim, how dare I make her suffer by exposing her to my emotions ... so i felt like I had to rationalise and sanitise them, present my feelings in as flat and unemotional tone as I could, justify with logic why I am upset and almost negotiate for support. I felt sorry for her, I wanted to proect her and save her. I guess if I could save her, then she could be my mum again. My mother was/is exactly the same, and i mean EXACTLY the same. I know your pain. xx Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Villan Posted September 24, 2009 Report Share Posted September 24, 2009 o m g you just described in a nut shell my upbringing... dont overreact, people worse off than you, you have to grin and bear it, i had it hard too you know, i am only trying to do my best, there is no book on how to be a parent, thats just the way it is - get over it... etc etc etc 6 months ago i struggled to work out why i am like i am and went looking for answers now i am going to run away and hide again cos it is too scary... but thank you ross for all your words of support and validation both here, on other threads and pm... ps - both parents were navy and used to conformation and the way things are done... that should explani a lot Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
x-Bliss-x Posted September 24, 2009 Report Share Posted September 24, 2009 Ross, that is what your mum was suppose to do when you were little, she didn't, she wasn't able to, and you missed out. What you're needing is your mum. Your little Rossie wants his mum to hold him, wipe away his tears, and just let him sob into her knowing she'll be there for him. I know how that feels, it's what i was feeling today, i don't know if we'll ever find that. I'm learning to be that for myself, but sometimes i just need and want desperately to have that from someone else, without having to ask for it, without having to describe what i want, be disappointed when it doesn't happen the way i need it, and end up feeling even more hurt. Keep talking if you need to, you're making sense and we're listening. I think so, yes. I know she could not handle my distress at all, I dont know why. It was like as soon as I got past a certain level of emotionality, she would start to think about herself, as though my feelings were aimed at her. Sometmimes they were, which meant double trouble ... I dont know why but if I got emotional enough, suddenly I would be hearing about how bad her childhood was, about what a rotten life she was having. It was like, i would have to forget about whatever I was angry or sad about, and defer to her "more hard done by than you" mentality. No pain I could ever experience would compare to her life, and as she was a victim, how dare I make her suffer by exposing her to my emotions ... so i felt like I had to rationalise and sanitise them, present my feelings in as flat and unemotional tone as I could, justify with logic why I am upset and almost negotiate for support. I felt sorry for her, I wanted to proect her and save her. I guess if I could save her, then she could be my mum again. My mother was/is exactly the same, and i mean EXACTLY the same. I know your pain. xx I completely empathise with both of you as I have experience the same thing. Even now. Trouble is my Mum gets upset when I don't talk to her so I try and immediately I get the "That's like when I...etc etc" and I end up feeling bad for her instead of getting support myself. Trouble is, is that as time as gone on and I've got older, when this happens I've come to resent her for it and I start to get angry. I don't feel the same compassion with her as I used to and tend to just think "you asked me how I was and all I'm hearing is how you are." Which then just leads me to feeling really guilty because I feel like I SHOULD still feel sorry for her and be supporting her. x-Bliss-x Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hummm_mabbe Posted September 24, 2009 Author Report Share Posted September 24, 2009 Your feelings are always valid, and I'm sorry that your mom didn't understand that and made you suffer. Like has already been said, I can't know how you feel, except what you share. I do know you have suffered, but more importantly that you are persevering and someone to look up to. I don't think it is ever easy, especially for those who have high standards, to let themselves just feel. The idea that negative feelings aren't bad is something I haven't been able to internalize yet, it sounds like you are! xxx I think you make a good point there Ave, that maybe I dont share. Some people have told me Im like a closed book emotionally much of the time. I guess I dont know what I think about feelings, I just kinna "feel about feelings". I can put approximate words to emotions - but there are just some emotions that almost refuse to be expressed in my body, and get replaced with anxiety or guilt almost straight away. More and more for me I am seeing the irrelevance of "thoughts" in the form of words with all this (especially after having many years of CBT that has not had a great impact), because there really arent any when I get down to that deep layer. Its just this little organism, I guess yes - like a very small child who cannot yet speak and put words to his experience. With my feelings, there are only pictures, feelings, sound bytes. Having someone say "feelings are ok" was never enough - I need that person to be there and show with their actions that my feelings are ok. After all its easy for a person to say "your emotions are important to me", only to stiffen up and protest at the first sign of feeling. I guess its this mixed message - what mum would say, versus what she would actually do, that is so maddening, Its like having to discount what you feel in your guts and rely on someone elses opinion of what you are feeling. I guess thats the old invalidation ... so the only way to really internalise that new feeling is to actually feel it alongside a feeling of acceptance. But I cant have that experience if I refuse to let the feeling out in front of others .... **sigh** As you point out, I guess me and my T have made some progress along this path. Maybe I am just experiencing further illumination of the road ahead, I dunno. Thank you for the nice words too :hug2: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hummm_mabbe Posted September 24, 2009 Author Report Share Posted September 24, 2009 Hi x-bliss Yes thats it - after a while all you can feel is anger, an anger you arent allowed to feel and cannot express, because the same process will happen again. And so the anger gets to this fever pitch, this huge torrent, and its made of all those little times, those droplets that become a river. Then when it comes out, it comes out under such pressure that even therapists can struggle to withstand it. Thats what I need - someone who can withstand it, who wont take my anger as a personal slight or a threat. But as you say, that guolt feeling is so autmoatic, that sometimes it just feels as soon as the anger flows, a big rubber bung gets shoved in my throat. I can almost feel it, squashing my tonsils sometimes, that feeling of crushing emotions back down yet again. Ross Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hummm_mabbe Posted September 24, 2009 Author Report Share Posted September 24, 2009 Hmmm I am starting to feel a bit better ... thank you cuddly folks. Ross Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AveMaria Posted September 24, 2009 Report Share Posted September 24, 2009 I'm glad you are starting to feel a bit better. We all support you on here, although I know its not the same as in real life. But, its a start and a nice safe place to come to! xxx Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roses Posted September 24, 2009 Report Share Posted September 24, 2009 Sorry haven't read all the posts as can't seem to catch-up today. But wanted to comment on comfortable silences with someone. In my opinion cofortable silences are under-rated in society. I think you have found someone truly special if you can just sit and hold hands and understand each other without all the bullshit and intellectualising. But that is just me. xxxxx Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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