So Called Former Borderlines Are Really Full Of Bs

[foreverborderline]

Wow, I see this has generated quite the response from the BPDWORLD community. my intention was not to offend anyone. I just had to get this off of my chest and what better place to do it than a place that generally has been understanding and supportive. Joshua I did not mean to single you out, it is just that when people say they have recovered and no longer have BPD it bothers me as doctors have told me for years that this illness is incurable and when I see someone say they are recovered it makes me think that they are hiding something and not telling us the whole story.

To those who so called reported my post, that to me seems a bit extreme, we are all entitled to our opinions right ? I firmly believe in my heart of hearts that BPD cannot be cured and it is in my experience that it cannot even get a little better, when it does it for sure every single time gets worse. I TRULY feel that those who say they no longer have BPD may be mistaken, not that they intend to outright lie but maybe they were misinformed as I do not believe BPD ever goes away, sure a doctor may tell you that you no longer have BPD but are they right ? I mean how could one person recover and someone else not ? I watch this show called the "OCD PROJECT" and there was this guy on the show who did not get better while others in the program did get better, he felt angry and like it was not fair and I guess that is how I feel. I see people get better while I get worse and I get jealous and angry and feel it is unfair, like God wants me to suffer and won't let me get better.

I also think that many of the people here that say they have recovered or have gotten better are fortunate that they live in Canada, Ireland, the UK, or Australia as those countries have health care systems more free and accessible than what we have in the USA, here in my country if you are poor and basically homeless like me then you are out of luck , if you are not wealthy in the USA then your chance of recovery goes down.

Anyway, yes I AM FOREVERBORDERLINE , At least I admit it and accept that I have this disorder forever. I did not mean to offend, just makes me so very angry that people say they recover from a disorder I have been told for YEARS AND YEARS than cannot be cured.

[foreverborderline]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Recovery_model

I find this discussion distasteful and disrespectful. Foreverborderline may be in a lot of genuine pain, but that is irrelevant right now. What is relevant is he/she is the bullshitter and obviously a not very well read individual. I apologise for my curtness but I want to spend as little of my time as possible on this waste of time discussion. I am only saying this much in the hope of helping the people who have read this. Recovery in mental health is a personal and therefore individual journey.

distasteful and disrespectful ? Not hardly, not the way it was intended anyway. I was just sharing my feelings of how it has been told to me for 20 years that I suffer from a disease that there is no known cure and then I see people say that they have recovered, maybe those people were fortunate enough to have money for therapy or live in a country where they have free health care and that is why they are free and I still suffer. I am not a bullshitter and DONT U DARE call me one, please, I do not know you and do not want to flip out on you but you do not know me either, my pain IS relevant. If you do not want to waste your time on this discussion maybe you should have stayed out of it. You are out of line here , I do not believe recovery is possible and that is why I posted this. If you saw all your friends getting things that you try for and always fail would you not be angry and resentful ? I think you would.

[guntarded]

Foreverborderline,

Thank you for responding to your thread. May I just say that I see you resented it when Roses said you were a bullshitter, but yet even in your opening title and paragraph of your thread you said those that claimed recovery were also bullshitters. If you don't like being called one, then maybe don't call others the same thing too...because they too can resent the same name.

I can only comment on the healthcare system of the UK, and if you read around people here you will see that despite free healthcare in the UK, its very much the luck of the draw which psychaitrist and MH services you belong with. I have had bad psychs and ended up with an amazing psychiatrist simply because I moved into a new catchment area and fortunate for me the consultant psych I seen on that day was a specialist in BPD.

When I detail recovery, I don't use the word lightly. Recovery for me is where the illness does not present any signs of disablement to my day to day function, decision making and life. Like my asthma analogy, my asthma has its affects on me so its not in a controlled or recovered state...but when I was a teenager I didnt need any treatment whatsoever and was able to play rugby...so by that I was recovered from my asthma.

Foreverborderline, even if you got access to MH services they can only show you the water, the donkey can still die at the river, if he refuses to drink. You have, as stated in many other posts, have substance abuse problems and other dependencies that make it more difficult for you to even try to recover. If you want to change, instead of throwing it up in the air which is easier to do, sit down and start taking some responsibility for actions you do now...for things in your life now that make you worse mentally, and find ways to cut them out of your life. Only when you start to change can change ever come...but its your choice.

[foreverborderline]

Guntarded - I did not mean they personally were bullshitters but that their claim that they have recovered from BPD seems false to me. Maybe my choice of words were what was distasteful but my feelings are not. As far as having MH services, at least people in the UK and other places have a P doc, it is better to have one (even not a good one) than none at all.

I will try to say this as you make me angry in some of what you write, so I will try to not get angry when I write this.

Yes you can bring a donkey to water but cannot force him to drink as the saying goes but the fact is I do not refuse to drink or take in recovery but in my mind I believe I am broken beyond repair and I am a firm believer that people who believe certain things cannot be helped until they stop believing them, people tell me all of the time positive things about myself and that I can get better, etc. But I have created a story in my head that feels real to me and I believe, and that is story is that I am stupid,broken,messed up, and a loser and I will never get better, nobody can fix me. I also believe that I am not responsible and not capable of being responsible of anything. I have no way of stopping the drugs, I need them to function, the ONLY hope for me is a dual diagnosis program that deals with BPD and Meth addiction , but I do not even have a dollar for a soda so that is not possible.

I am just fuucked , that is what it comes down to. So, to all those who claim to have recovered, I am happy for them , I guess.

[Shellybelly]

hey forever borderline

what you have are core belief i.e. im stupid i cant get better etc

its hard to change these

my core belief is im stupid

no matter how many people tell me im not stupid

i wont no way no how believe them

even a doctor with a iq test proving otherwise

i dont believe it

it is my core belief

kinda like you right now saying you cannot get better

well my pdoc told me it not easy to change core belief

it is one of the hardest thing to do

but to start you need to make a new belief

my one is im normal

then like two boxes one for im stupid and one for im normal

you gotta find evidence that fits into the im normal box

and make the im normal box as big as the im stupid box

so that one day the im normal box outdoes the im stupid box

does that make sense

and your right it does say bpd isnt curable

my own pdoc and t have told me the same and there very good and i live in ireland

but it is managable and treatable

so you can go on to live a happy productive life

but it is damn hard

since it is your personalitly that is faulty you cant change that

your probaly alway gonna be implusive and so on

but you can learn to control that

and learn to come up with new coping mechanism than the ones you have at the min

[icu_baby]

Guntarded - I did not mean they personally were bullshitters but that their claim that they have recovered from BPD seems false to me. Maybe my choice of words were what was distasteful but my feelings are not. As far as having MH services, at least people in the UK and other places have a P doc, it is better to have one (even not a good one) than none at all.

I will try to say this as you make me angry in some of what you write, so I will try to not get angry when I write this.

Yes you can bring a donkey to water but cannot force him to drink as the saying goes but the fact is I do not refuse to drink or take in recovery but in my mind I believe I am broken beyond repair and I am a firm believer that people who believe certain things cannot be helped until they stop believing them, people tell me all of the time positive things about myself and that I can get better, etc. But I have created a story in my head that feels real to me and I believe, and that is story is that I am stupid,broken,messed up, and a loser and I will never get better, nobody can fix me. I also believe that I am not responsible and not capable of being responsible of anything. I have no way of stopping the drugs, I need them to function, the ONLY hope for me is a dual diagnosis program that deals with BPD and Meth addiction , but I do not even have a dollar for a soda so that is not possible.

I am just fuucked , that is what it comes down to. So, to all those who claim to have recovered, I am happy for them , I guess.

I didn't know you had a meth problem. You really do need a lot of professional help forever and you should be in rehab. Its a shame that in a country that is as "wealthy" as the USA you have such a shit medical system. I was going to suggest to you the over the counter medication I suggested earlier and to try exercise (which are both cheap) but didn't realize that you have a drug problem either. What you really need is to be in rehab for a few months like lindsay lohan and I am sorry that that is not an option for you.

[foreverborderline]

Thanks Shellybelly for that , but also thanks for not talking down to me. I known I probabally deserve to be talked down to since I posted something that offended people , even though I did not intend to.

Yes, I have many core beliefs and none of them are good. I TRULY feel un fixable and that I will only get worse, and this feeling is so overpowering that I will do anything not to feel it, sometimes it scares me what I would do not to feel my feelings, suicide of late is VERY appealing to me.

[foreverborderline]

Yes Ice_baby, have bad meth problem, was clean for 15 months but relapsed and using daily for past 7 weeks now although I have no money and have not used in 3 days and am pulling out hair and crying and shaking because my body needs the drug. I have had a stroke and heart attack from using before and almost had another heart attack last week still I cannot quit, it makes all the BPD crap go away but of course makes it worse. There are cheap rehabs but my wife and I barely are able to pay our rent and starve most of the time so no money for rehab and what I really need is a BPD/DRUG rehab and those are pricey. I wish I had Lohan's money.

[notawallflower]

forever,

I wish you were not so unwell. I feel sick, confused, dizzy and traumatised when I read some of your posts.

I'm guessing you must feel those things inside of yourself? That must be really awful for you. I don't know how or where, but you must get some kind of help.

That post where you said you felt angry, then walked away before posting PROVES to me that there is hope for you, and is the reason I keep posting, even though at times I feel myself being sucked in to the hole.

I do think, deep down, surely you must believe there's hope?

[notawallflower]

Yes Ice_baby, have bad meth problem, was clean for 15 months but relapsed and using daily for past 7 weeks now although I have no money and have not used in 3 days and am pulling out hair and crying and shaking because my body needs the drug. I have had a stroke and heart attack from using before and almost had another heart attack last week still I cannot quit, it makes all the BPD crap go away but of course makes it worse. There are cheap rehabs but my wife and I barely are able to pay our rent and starve most of the time so no money for rehab and what I really need is a BPD/DRUG rehab and those are pricey. I wish I had Lohan's money.

fuck no wonder you are feeling so bad How long til it leaves the system?

[foreverborderline]

Notawallflower - I know this thread must have angered some people and I am sorry for that, I never meant to hurt anyone. I really have lost 99% of my hope, I guess there is a mustard seed of hope left that maybe I can get better. I really wish I was not such a chicken and could kill myself, I just do not want to feel pain anymore.; I had dreams to become a doctor and have a home and travel and all that is lost and all I am stuck with is meth , feeling pain, and being poor and lost. I feel like a little boy who got separated from his parents in the mall and is lost and cannot find them.

[foreverborderline]

Yes Ice_baby, have bad meth problem, was clean for 15 months but relapsed and using daily for past 7 weeks now although I have no money and have not used in 3 days and am pulling out hair and crying and shaking because my body needs the drug. I have had a stroke and heart attack from using before and almost had another heart attack last week still I cannot quit, it makes all the BPD crap go away but of course makes it worse. There are cheap rehabs but my wife and I barely are able to pay our rent and starve most of the time so no money for rehab and what I really need is a BPD/DRUG rehab and those are pricey. I wish I had Lohan's money.

fuck no wonder you are feeling so bad How long til it leaves the system?

supposed to be 72 hours but the cravings are so bad I need it, plus it is psychologically addictive, plus I am addicted to porn that goes along with the meth and addicted to alcohol. I have quit meth many times over the years but feel the BPD always makes me use again, viscous cycle and it sucks.

[notawallflower]

this might sound crazy, but..why not take a gamble on cross addiction and try to develop a fitness addiction..it doesn't take long to re-wire the neurons (neurons that fire together wire together) seems like a long shot, sure. But one day you decided that it was okay to put highly toxic chemicals into your delicate physiology and now you've told yourself you're addicted to that. So it stands to reason that you can convince yourself you're addicted to anything you like, and as long as you're gung-ho with it your system will probably just accept it as something constant and extreme and therefore familiar.

Work yourself to your absolute limit. Put yourself in so much physical pain that the psychological pain doesn't even occur to you.

[toocrazy]

forever,

How do you know what is bpd and what is chemicals. Meth takes a completely normal brain and turns it into bpd on steroids brain. It is poison for every single possible symptom of bpd and depression and and and and.

F...ing addictions. The mother of all, the new mother of all, meth. Absolute poison to your brain and system. Not that heroin or any opiates or benzos don't mess a mind up, but meth is the mother of burning every receptor OFF in your already sensitive brain.

We can't trust this thread, your feelings, your beliefs because they may be 360 degrees from this if you were clean.

Whatever bpd, save your life, get clean--stay clean and then post you are more miserable than you could be right now. Nothing like being an addict without ur drugs. Bpd...whatever..bring it on it will feel like you are relaxing on a beach in paradise.

get clean and give it some time...like a year or two...try

:sm.jpg:

[foreverborderline]

Notawallflower - I did not choose to become addicted to this drug, I started using because it allowed me to escape my emotions and also be able to feel OK about my sexuality. I have tried time and time again to replace this addiction with something more healthy

but every time the drug calls my name again. It is the most difficult substance to quit, it is not only quitting the drug but every other addiction to goes along with the drug. I know it is toxic and can kill me but I cannot stop, believe me , I have tried.

Toocrazy I am quoting your post and will respond to it -

forever,

How do you know what is bpd and what is chemicals. Meth takes a completely normal brain and turns it into bpd on steroids brain. It is poison for every single possible symptom of bpd and depression and and and and.

F...ing addictions. The mother of all, the new mother of all, meth. Absolute poison to your brain and system. Not that heroin or any opiates or benzos don't mess a mind up, but meth is the mother of burning every receptor OFF in your already sensitive brain.

We can't trust this thread, your feelings, your beliefs because they may be 360 degrees from this if you were clean.

Whatever bpd, save your life, get clean--stay clean and then post you are more miserable than you could be right now. Nothing like being an addict without ur drugs. Bpd...whatever..bring it on it will feel like you are relaxing on a beach in paradise.

get clean and give it some time...like a year or two...try

I know what is BPD and what is the drug because I had these same problems and feelings BEFORE I ever picked up the drug. I was clean and everything was still the same. So, you saying you cannot trust this thread is really unfair as my feelings are my feelings regardless of what drug I am using. My beliefs are the SAME when I am clean, I can assure you of that. I AM TRYING TO SAVE MY LIFE. I was clean and have tried to stay that way but every time I do things get worse, maybe I will die the next time I use, all I know is staying clean or using is not a choice for me, BPD controls what I do. This is how I feel, I feel that I cannot get better from the BPD of meth addiction. I am sad of this but no help is there for me. I know the Meth is killing my body and brain, when I was clean I was in pre med school to be a drug counselor and doctor, but addiction is so powerful that is controls me. I know you may disagree but this is my reality.

[Roses]

Hmmm.... seems like you want to give it all out to other people but when these people give it back to you, you are upset!

Yes, Gun is right. You called us all bullshitters, or potential bulshitters, and when I turned that 180 back on you I am the bad guy!

Yes, I should have probably kept my gob shut but one quality I absolutely despise above most of others is ARROGANCE. It is arrogant to presume that people who have "recovered" are bullshitting. It is arrogant to keep your mind closed to the fact that they are right and you are wrong. It is your arrogance that made me feel I needed to post.

Do not be so quick to judge, lest thee be judged thyself !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[foreverborderline]

Hmmm.... seems like you want to give it all out to other people but when these people give it back to you, you are upset!

Yes, Gun is right. You called us all bullshitters, or potential bulshitters, and when I turned that 180 back on you I am the bad guy!

Yes, I should have probably kept my gob shut but one quality I absolutely despise above most of others is ARROGANCE. It is arrogant to presume that people who have "recovered" are bullshitting. It is arrogant to keep your mind closed to the fact that they are right and you are wrong. It is your arrogance that made me feel I needed to post.

Do not be so quick to judge, lest thee be judged thyself !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Listen Roses, I really want to tell you how angry your posts to me make me but I do not want to get banned from the board so I will just think it to myself. I did not call YOU a bullshitter , I said that people who say they have recovered from BPD are full of BS, not that they are bullshitters but that the fact that they no longer have BPD is bullshit. So, yeah you are the bad guy when you talk to me that way, I am right and I know it, PERIOD. And I was not arrogant but your perception that I was arrogant, and let me tell ya sweetie that your perception is what may most of all be the most BS. I know that may seem harsh but sometimes the truth is. I am hurting and dying here so I have every right to get angry when others recover and I do not.

[Roses]

OK. Personally I hadn't written you off as a person. I was only ever talking in the context of this conversation. But if you want to make it a general assumption on my character then that's fine. I will stay out of your way and you can stay out of mine. I would suggest blocking me, cos it's not worth letting me upset you like this.

[foreverborderline]

OK. Personally I hadn't written you off as a person. I was only ever talking in the context of this conversation. But if you want to make it a general assumption on my character then that's fine. I will stay out of your way and you can stay out of mine. I would suggest blocking me, cos it's not worth letting me upset you like this.

YOU SHOULD WRITE ME OFF AS A PERSON CAUSE I HAVE WRITTEN MYSELF OFF, I AM A LOSER , I KNOW IT AND I AM SURE EVERYONE ELSE DOES TOO.

[Dani]

Hi foreverborderline,

ive read everything thats been written here and i can see you are in pain with everything your going through right now.im sorry to hear

about that.

on your last post i notice you say that you have every right to be angry when others recover and you do not?yet you say i your other posts that peoplcan not recover?is it bcause you feel you will never recover that you are so angry at the fact others do?and that you do believe its possible but just not for you?

[foreverborderline]

That is right Dani I am in a lot of pain and it gets worse and worse by the minute. When I am high the pain is not there but when I am sober it is unbearable.

Well, I do not believe people can fully recover from BPD to a point where they do not have it anymore, I believe people can get better though.

Maybe if I had been in treatment for years consistently I would get better but now I feel I cannot and will not ever get better. I TRULY feel that I am a lost cause and do not deserve to have a happy life as I feel I am stupid,ugly,and a bad person. So, I guess I feel that maybe at one point I had a shot at recovery but now feel I do not and it is not possible for me.

[Dani]

i think this thread is more about how you feel about yourself than people who have recoverd(or got better).

you have so little self worth and self belief and you are in a very dark place right now.

Do you feel you dont deserve to get better?in reality it is possible for most people to get better or at least to a managable state and that includes you.

i think the fact that you kicked your habit for all those years shows a lot of determination and stregnth.so you have those vital qualitys inside you.

you are here still alive and still fighting...that too says to me you are a fighter.Dont give up on yourself.x

[foreverborderline]

Thanks for saying that I am a fighter and for your kind words. This thread was originally about how people say they no longer have BPD and I just do not buy that as I have been told and have read for years that BPD cannot be cured so when I see people say they have been cured while I get worse I just do not believe it. Then the thread became about my emotions and me because I wanted to explain to people that I did not mean to offend them, I just am truly in a very dark place that only seems to get darker by the day. I do not feel I deserve to get better because if I did then God would have healed me by now, and I have so much self hatred that it feels impossible to wish or think I deserve anything good. I tell my wife to leave me because I want her to be happy and who could be happy with a loser like me.

I wish I was not the way I am but it is what it is I guess. I think deep down I want to get better but I feel I have already given up on myself.

[Joshua]

Your expereinces are exactly that, yours.

It was only to be expected that people would respond in the way they have when you are trying to threaten people's belief that there is hope. You may not believe it and thats for you to consider but other people may be very hopeful about the future and in you writing what you did may be a knock for some.

[AmyP]

I agree with josh. this thread has really knocked my hope that i might get better and live a normal life if i am diagnosed with bpd. i really hope that your pessimism is just that, and not truth.