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The Most Important Question Of All: Can You Have A Successful Relation With Someone With Bpd


mark999

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Auroro, She gets depression medication like zoloft etc.

separated one year.

we have been to two therapists. she fought with the first one and refused to go back.

we also have seen many friends and discussed. but it's like when i say something valid which shows her actions are causing it, she blanks out, and just moves to the next topic.

We have tried to have concersations many times. But whenever I express my feelings she either blanks out or takes i very personally and starts to cry or throws a tantrum.

She would never mind if i sat with her in psychiatrist session. she is a very inclusive person in that way.

this contradiction of personalities makes it very confusing.

Bibiddi,

I see where you are coming from. And a part of what you say is correct. Because a part of her will suddenly hate me (isn't that a symptom of BPD - of course it can be a symptom of many things, and it can even be a sympton of just anger) but the next day I will be the greatest thing to enter her life. That is actually part of what tore us up. I believed like you for a time that she just didn't want to be with me. But now I am beginning to understand that was not the case.

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You've been seperated for a year. Can i ask, are you still continuing a full blown on and off relationship? Or are you completely apart from eachother and just seeing eachother occasionally and speaking on the phone?

You say she's your first love and have been married five years, did you marry young?

Has she behaved the way she behaves now, from the first time you met and all the way through your 5 year marriage? Or is it a more recent development, say the last couple of years or so?

Do you have any Children?

Sorry for all the questions, just trying to get a clearer picture.

Aurora :)

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Mark do you see that your questions such as 'how do I do this?' 'how do I have a successful relationship?' have not been answered in 6pages?

I appreciate that you are a 'logical' person but if you cannot grasp the concept that there simply is NO LOGICAL ANSWER for a couple in the middle of a very messy break up (which, in my opinion, is what you are describing here) then how can anyone here help you?

I agree with posts above - you seem to be pinning actual hope on your wife having a serious MH diagnosis in the hope that this will save your marriage...to make yourself feel better about your marriage breakdown.

What if she has BPD? Will that help your marriage? How? A person's diagnosis IS NOT the whole description of an individual, in a neat conveniant 'logical' nutshell.

What if she doesn't have BPD? What then?

Again, I feel a number of sessions with a qualified relationship counsellor may help you.

This forum is for those with a number of MH issues - we support each other through everyday life. We can support you in light of your wife's MH issues, but we cannot offer concrete instructions on how to save your marriage - sorry.

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Number 1: as others have said, you are so sure your wife has BPD and since she hasn't been diagnosed, that is just BS. Don't label her and try to blame your relationship problems on her and her mental health problems.

Number 2: my relationship works because my boyfriend just accepts me for who I am. It took a bloody long time to trust him and I do. Also, he doesn't say stuff like "having a tantrum" and "your actions are causing this". He doesn't dismiss me like that.

You sound, Mark, like you don't actually like or respect her that much.

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I kind of feel sorry for Mark. I am not sure what is going on obviously as none of us are as we don't know him or his wife.

But I have met women like he has described who have not got BPD. I don't think what he is describing BPD, I bloody hope not because I for one would hate to be thought of like that or described of like that. I am f****** in the head and crap at relationships and black and white thinking, etc etc etc, but to be honest Mark, reading through your posts and I am being completely honest with my opinion, okay? Your wife sounds a bit spoilt, throwing tantrums as a grown woman and going blank when she doesn't want to answer a question.

And you sound so desperate to get her to love you again and to take all the blame. I wonder, as you say she is your first love, you are just very scared of losing that security and safety of the familiar and safe. By wanting her to admit her actions are the sole cause of the marriage break up might be you wanting to feel more secure about yourself? Do you have a low opinion of yourself? Are you not very confident?

From what you say and that's all I can go on, you sound like a pretty decent bloke but very, very insecure.

Arghhh, I could be completely wrong here, obviously. I get the feeling there is so much more to you being convinced she has BPD. It sounds like by convincing yourself that she has BPD, you can forgive her behaviour? But without BPD, you can't? But you are desperate to forgive her because you don't want to lose her.

Before I was diagnosed, I desperately wanted to know what was wrong with me, not because I wanted the crappy labels they give you but so someone could take the hell out of my head. I didn't play games or throw tantrums I was too ill to think that way. Still am because even after they discover what is wrong sometimes there is still no answer/cure/fix. Mark, even with a diagnoses it doesn't always get any easier, not for all of us, or for the loved ones. Sometimes it just stays horrible.

I feel it is unfair that we are all giving opinions of you and your wife when we don't know either of you. I feel crap saying what I have said above not knowing your wife. But I am going by what you are saying and your words pour out sadness and desperation and I feel you should for the moment, forget about trying to get your wife diagnosed and see if there is anything you need, to make you cope better without her.

Sorry if I have spoken out of turn, but I can see you going round in circles, searching for an answer and feeling equally awful when you get an answer.

Are you struggling/suffering with anything, taking your wife out of the equasion for a minute?

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Esme, thank you for your point of view. THis is exactly the kind of feedback I want to hear. Because I am hyper respectful to colleagues, friends, family. Yet with her I receive a reaction like you gave - that I am not respectful.

Aurora,

-during our separation exactly the same things happen as did in our marriage. suddenly she cuts off communitcation. then a few weeks later she wants to patch it up. when she gets angry she can not reason. even her voice changes, like someone else is speaking.

-we did not marry young. in our late 20s.

-she was like this from the very beginning of our relationship. and every year i just hoped it would changed. but it got worse and worse.

-we have no children.

Just to give you a non BPD perspective. When I explain my relationship to an outside person or friend their reaction is to say 'run'. And I think most people would actually do this. But by nature I am not like that. I believe in true love regardless of what hurdles come our way.

Again, to reemphaize - no, it is not just standard marital issues and her being unhappy with the marriage.

No, am not pinning hope on a mental health diagnosis. If it really wasn't working out I would walk away and not look back.

The reason i am pursuing this is because I feel that she does love me. She does care. But like some posters said 'what if she had a disease?' I know BPD is not a disease. But it is a condition. So if it is beyong her control. And it is discovreed she does have BPD that will mean something very significant. It will mean she does love me but can't show it many times in the standard manner.

Anyways all this is going off the topic. If I find out she doesn't have it - great. If she does have - I will work with it.

But my point is it is obvious as daylight that her actions cause relationship turmoil.

To emphasize again and again. She has the same issues with her friends, family, and colleagues. And she had them before she met me. So logically it is not jsut a marital issue.

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ILostCharlotte, great points. Yes, she is very very spoilt, no question. It could be that.

But I have seen spoilt people. This is on a different level.

And no I am not insecure. Or have low self esteem. I am just confident in achieveing anything. Even if it is a tough challenge like this.

Yes, she was my first love. So it obviously will mean a lot ot lose her. But to be honest I will feel hurt losing anyone. Even my 10th love. Yes, I am desperate to find a solution because by nature I am persistent and have achieved highly throughout life.

But that does not mean I am illogical in any way or insecure.

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I notice that when you agree with someone you say things like;great point,best post this year,exactly what I wanted to hear.

What is the point of asking a question if you only want to hear a certain answer.

Seems like you only want to be confirmed in your ideas and build on that.

Relationships take two,have you ever looked at your part in things?

Lily

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I notice that when you agree with someone you say things like;great point,best post this year,exactly what I wanted to hear.

Very true. In my opinion, you should seriously consider what Lily has said here, Mark

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So you're saying what I said is the kind of thing she would say, so therefore she must have bpd, because I have bpd. Give me a break. You're hyper respectful to your colleagues, well, who isn't? I know plenty of people who are nice to me at work who are then complete shits to their partners.

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And also, you have achieved highly? You're looking for a solution? She's a person, not some problem to be solved. The way you're talking about her is so horrible.

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Mark move on, you are not adding support, just sucking sick people dry. The Forum is give and take and you my dear have not given an ounce of support since you arrived.

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Aurora,

-during our separation exactly the same things happen as did in our marriage. suddenly she cuts off communitcation. then a few weeks later she wants to patch it up.

Please understand that in this post i am just speculating here on what may be going on with the bits of information you have given. As i can't honestly really know what is going on in your relationship.

Could it be possible that the reason she is flip flopping back into your life after seperations, is that she doesn't know anything else and is actually afraid of moving on? Afraid of losing the security of a relationship, the freinds and family that come a long with a long term partnership?

when she gets angry she can not reason. even her voice changes, like someone else is speaking.

When anyone get's angry, they cannot reason properly and their voice changes (High pitched, Low Growl, raised voice etc) This isn't something that just happens to your Wife, or to people with BPD. It actually happens to most people.

Why does she get angry, have you actually asked her? Of course asking someone why they are angry, whislt they are angry you are going to get a lot more anger. So ask her when she's calmed down and in a more rational frame of mind.

-we did not marry young. in our late 20s.

Ok, were you together long before you got married? Did you move in together first to test the waters before marriage?

I only ask this, because sometimes people get into relationships pretty quick. Move in together qucik and often get married quick. Soon they find that thier spouse is not who they thought they were, little things start to niggle, like little habits that the other person doesn't really like, loud chewing, leaving the toilet seat up, not cleaning up after yourself etc etc. Sometimes these feelings get bottled up until they reach breaking point and an argument occurs. Arguments in a relationship can sometimes occur over the most stupid things (again, this is actually quite normal). You both could have certain habits that really irritate eachother, but bottle them up because you are concerned that it may offend. When really what you should be doing is communicating, in a non condescending, non judgmental manner.

When you speak to your wife about how she behaves or an argument you just had, how do you broach the subject? The resaon why i ask this, is because you could be doing so in a manner that makes her shut down and not want to speak to you, without even realising it.

Do you keep on at your Wife about her bahaviour? This is also a no no, because that will also make her clam up and feel like you are blaming her for everything.

You also mentioned in your other thread that you brought BPD up with her and she was aghast at the suggestion. How did you bring this up with her? What was your tone of voice? Was it in the middle of an argument? How would you feel if she turned round to you and accused you of having a mental illness? Again, this probably made her feel like you were blaming everything on her.

Mental illness is still very stigmatising, no matter what how common it is these days. Especially BPD. Alot of people i know in real life hate thier mental health diagnosis, including myself. It feels like professional has stuck you in a little box, labeled so and so, and that label will be with you for the rest of your life like a ball and chain.

-she was like this from the very beginning of our relationship. and every year i just hoped it would changed. but it got worse and worse.

Ok, Can i ask who was the one that suggested Therapy and seeing a Psychiatrist? Was it you or her, or was it both of you? If it was you who suggested it, how did you broach the subject?

When you mentioned you went to couples therapy, or sat in with her therapist and mentioned how she ended up walking out and not going back. What did you say to the Therapist in your wifes presense? Did you start blaming your wife for all your problems? Did you tell the Therapist that everything your Wife has told them is untrue and distorted? If so, could you blame her for walking out and not going back?

Have you actually been to couples Therapy? Not just sat in with her, with her own Therapist? The idea of one to one Therapy is just that, one to one. It's a safe place for your wife to work through all her issues and build up a trusting relationship with said Therapist. I think you sitting in with her Therapist may have ended up halting her progress, which it did, as she walked and never went back.

Have you actually tried using a Therapist yourself? It could be very beneficial for you to work out all your issues in regards to your marriage and get a different persepctive from a trained professional.

You've already mentioned that your wife is seeing a psychiatrist for depression medication? Do you know what diagnosis this Psychiatrist has given her? How long has she seen this Psychiatrist for?

I asked you in another post whether your Wife woud let you sit in on her next session with her Psychiatrist. You said she would because she is very inclusive. The reason i asked you this, was perhaps by doing so, it may put all these BPD thoughts of yours to rest. If you are going to ask your wife if you could sit in on her session, do not force the subject, if she says no, she says no. If she says yes, makesure you let her know that you would like to ask the Psychiatrist a couple of questions and let her know exactly what theses questions will be and only do so if she approves.

Example Questions: What is my Wifes official diagnosis? Do you think the medication she is on is helping her? What kind of Therapy do you think will suit her best.

Do not go in and start saying, my Wife does this, my Wife does that, i think she has BPD etc etc. Unless of course your Wife has pre-approved you of doing so.

If the Psychiatrist turns round and says, she has BPD or BPD/Personality Disorder traits, then fair enough you can go from there. If they turn round and say she has Depression or something else, it may be best to let sleeping dogs lie on the BPD front.

One last question. Have you actually asked your wife whether she wants to continue with this marriage or not? And work though it, the way you want to work through it?

If so, you must remember there are two people in this relationshsip and it would be best for you to both work on it (if she wants to work on it) on equal footing. When i say that, i mean, not just you calling all the shots.

As i've said many times. I think you both need to sit down and have a mature conversation about your future. Whether it will be together or not.

Aurora :)

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Mark what you have to try and understand is that everyone is along the spectrum somewhere, but BPD is the extreme end of the spectrum. You, your wife, everyone in the world is on it, but its about how extreme the reactions are. I understand that for you, they will feel extreme because your the one thats having to deal with them, but BPD is about more than throwing a hissy fit when you dont get your way or saying you dont want to be married when your angry. Most people things like that when theyr angry in the heat of the moment, things they later regret and then take back, like when you say suddenly she wants to be with you again.

BPD is a horrible life-sucking illness. The pain and sadness, the extreme emotions, the swinging so rapidly that you dont even know who or where you are half the time. The self-harming, whether it be physical or emotional, the suicide idealation. I cant diagnose your wife, but i dont believe she has BPD. I just dont see that how she behaves is extreme enough.

My advice to you would be yes, to try and support your wife, but stop trying to tell her that its her problems that are making the marriage break down, that she has a mental health problem, that how she's behaving isnt normal. Imagine if someone said that to you, how would you feel? Marriage problems are not all one persons fault, whether one of them has BPD or not. Your wife may have some issues, but i honestly dont believe she has BPD.

Thats my penny's worth

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I would also like to add...(can't edit my other post) :)

You say you love her, and you believe she loves you. Unfortunately, in reality, love doesn't conquer all. You need a lot more than love to keep a relationship going. You need to be equals, you need to work together, you need trust, respect, understanding, compromise, acceptance, and most of all communication.

Aurora :)

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Hi there,

sorry to hear your relationship is so tricky at the moment. It really isn't easy to be married to someone with BPD. I feel terrible at the things hy husband has to put up with at times.because of my extremness.

I found this blog yesterday which I thought was interesting, and it does show that the answer to your question is yes, but it isn't easy!

http://pennydulumonlife.blogspot.com/

Hugs.

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Aurora, thank you so much for your detailed analysis and input on each question about other possibilities than BPD. It is really very helpful. And I will think over all the points.

Pandora, thank you so much for your input. The way you described it, now I have a much better understanding of BPD and yes you are very likely right, she probably does not have BPD. And I think you mentioned a very important point that we are all on the spectrum somewhere.

Shadowgirl, thank you for your comment and blog recommendation.

OK, everyone, thank you so much for all your input. Your patience. Your constant replies. And your guidance. It has meant a lot.

And wishing everyone a wonderful 2012

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  • 2 weeks later...

Been with my wife 20 years... 18 of those married. I suppose I've been so successful because I've been able to meet her fear of abandonment by being around a lot! She always had a spending problem... I remember as a poor newlywed we had a $3k tax return and stuck it in an account for some purchase to be defined. I thought I'd buy a few fishing things from the account soon after it was opened and it was all but gone. That was a lot of money to us back in those days. I figured it might be because she was from a well to do family and spending money was somewhat impulsive for her... but her buying and need for "stuff" is medication!

Early on in marriage we had younger children, one that is handicapped and required lots of time, care and attention. This probably kept her busy with a constant crisis for years to keep her excited. In between this there was an episode where my wife took an evening job because she was bored and ended up having an emotional affair with a co-worker. I could never make sense of it, but knowing now her flirtatios nature is to feed her self image issues... it does.

I then started my own business and worked out of the house... I'd be there for weeks and never leave. I played Mr. Mom, made all the money, wife had a little job to keep her busy and she knew where I was at most of the time. I also made tons of money and she spent like no bodies business! I think this compounded my wife's problem a ton by reinforcing and providing her the means to self medicate... only problem was my business tanked and when I had to go find a job outside the house that required I not always be there.

That puts me to where I am now... not sure about the future, trying to figure that one out. Much of the "craziness" over the years now makes sense... my wife's never ending image issue in spite of my building her up, spending, etc. My wife has recently mentioned suicide a few times and that really scares me... I want her to die happy and old... just don't know what my part in that is or can be... my short summary is that things have been chaotic, but my wife has been able to either not have major triggers or the ability to self medicate.

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