artemis84 Posted December 14, 2012 Report Share Posted December 14, 2012 I wasn't sure where to post this but I can't think of much that is as universally depressing so maybe this is the right place. I just felt I needed to express my dismay, anger and total horror at today's shootings in Connecticut. How can someone shoot innocent children in cold blood like this?? I can't even begin to imagine how terrified they must have all been, in fact terrified is nowhere near strong enough. It makes me SO angry at the world, how can we let stuff like this happen? I just don't have the right words but my thoughts are with all those affected. xxx Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vasquez Posted December 14, 2012 Report Share Posted December 14, 2012 Its the surving victims i feel most sorry for. they are going to have nightmares and mentally-ill thoughts for years i fnot forever. its jsut sick. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fanta Posted December 14, 2012 Report Share Posted December 14, 2012 I agree I don't know what makes these people tick Very sad.x Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maddison Posted December 14, 2012 Report Share Posted December 14, 2012 No words. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Benway Posted December 17, 2012 Report Share Posted December 17, 2012 I agree I don't know what makes these people tick Very sad.x SSRI antidepressants in most cases. Google "antidepressants school shooting' xx Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bereft Posted December 17, 2012 Report Share Posted December 17, 2012 It's so sad. Everyone over here (in the states) is grieving. Like Maddison said...no words can express the pain. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Data Posted December 17, 2012 Report Share Posted December 17, 2012 I agree, its very disturbing. But unfortunately some people are evil. Perhaps - in a way - the evil in the world helps us to appreciate the good? Although that would be no consolation to the victims and the families of the victims (and the family of the perpetrator). The China incident was also disturbing: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-china-20723910 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chenpeng_Village_Primary_School_stabbing "On 14 December 2012 between 7 and 8 a.m. local time, a 36-year-old villager identified as Min Yongjun stabbed 23 people, including 22 children and an elderly woman, in a knife attack at Chenpeng Village Primary School, Wenshu Township, Guangshan County, Henan province, China. The children targeted by the knifeman are thought likely to be between six and eleven years of age and the attack occurred as the children were arriving for classes." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SweetDeanie Posted December 17, 2012 Report Share Posted December 17, 2012 I feel Adam Lanza was also a victim, of the system, society and stigma. I feel this incident could have been prevented if he had been helped sooner, i don't think he was evil, I think he was mentally ill and had behavioral/learning disabilities. I think the US shouldn't be focusing on gun control now but on treating and helping those with mental health problems sooner. http://gawker.com/5968818/i-am-adam-lanzas-mother Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maddison Posted December 17, 2012 Report Share Posted December 17, 2012 I think if it was my kid I wouldn't give damn care about the killer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
artemis84 Posted December 17, 2012 Author Report Share Posted December 17, 2012 Me either. I'd like to think I could be the better person and consider things from his point of view but ultimately, if he'd just taken the life of my child I just don't think I could. It is a tragedy when anyone believes there is nothing they can do anymore than take their own life but as much as I sympathise with people with mh issues and how truly awful you can feel as a sufferer of them, part of me just doesn't understand why someone would kill so many others (adults let alone children) before turning the gun on themselves anyway. I guess there are no straight forward answers though. The kids killed were all the same age as those I work with, it has left me and all my colleagues deeply saddened. I hadn't heard of the Chinese tragedy until now, that too is truly terrible. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fanta Posted December 17, 2012 Report Share Posted December 17, 2012 Edit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Data Posted December 17, 2012 Report Share Posted December 17, 2012 I think its important to try to understand how and why things like this happen. Also, its important not to demonise the perpetrators in a way that just writes them off as being sub-human - because that is too easy. All of us are capable of evil acts, just some more so than others. Having said that, whilst we may come to understand things like this, it does not mean that they should be condoned. Just because Adam Lanza had mental health problems, these are probably not an excuse for what he did. At some level,. he made a choice. His need to be a martyr, and to vent his anger, and to exercise control over the world around him (murder is in some ways the ultimate form of control) was more important to him than the welfare of the community and the lives of those vulnerable little children. He came wearing a bullet-proof vest and a mask. He killed his mum beforehand. He arrived at just the time before they locked the security doors. It was a calculated and planned act of evil, for which he is responsible (although his responsibility may be diminished to some degree by his mental health problems). If he was completely incapable of knowing the difference between right and wrong, he'd probably be incapable of planning and executing such an act. I don't agree with mass gun ownership of the type that exists in the USA. I am glad we don't have a gun culture like that in the UK. I don't want to say any more on this because its too political. But the USA will never change now, once you go down the role of giving everyone access to guns, its a one way street. So massacres like this will, unfortunately, continue to happen. I can't imagine what the families of the victims are going through at the moment. And the family of Adam Lanza (he has a brother, Ryan) will also be going through their own pain. The teachers and school staff that helped to shield the children, risking and sacrificing their own lives, are heroes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SweetDeanie Posted December 17, 2012 Report Share Posted December 17, 2012 I think Data you put it way better than I possibly could, it's about prevention of future occurrences and whilst demonising the perpetrator is only natural under such terrible and horrific circumstances it leads to the idea that it would be impossible to prevent it happening again, whilst if able to recognise what went wrong for this guy, what led up to what he did etc...then prevention may be possible for at least some cases. I do disagree with your idea of mental competency though as for example someone going through some kind of a delusion and hearing voices for example could still be capable of committing a crime or even suicide or murder and also plan it out. I have had voices that I thought were God and Jesus talking to me and believed that I had a purpose, I felt I had to decipher the meaning of visions I believed were being sent to me and was very scared and anxious about ensuring I completed their will. I would have been fully able to plan and plot something had I ended up feeling that I had to. Just one example x Of course I am not saying that there is any defence for what Adam has done, it is inconceivable for there to ever be any excuse for causing the kind of suffering he has caused to anyone, my view is on what could have been done before and what can be done now to prevent this happening again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Data Posted December 17, 2012 Report Share Posted December 17, 2012 Your example about psychosis is a good one, Sweetdeanie... I think there have been cases where people who were psychotic have carried out quite complex crimes and been found to not be responsible for their actions. But that doesn't sound like that is what has happened here (although obviously I've never met the killer, and I'm no expert!). Apparently all schools in China will have a security guard by 2013, because of the incidents there. Maybe things like this are the only way to prevent it? But even that may not work, a security guard isn't going to be expecting something like this, and could easily be taken by surprise, if the killer is armed. Of course I think that mental health services should be better. But then again, some of the people who are responsible for mass killings, and who behave in really weird ways, have never had a diagosis or been in the mental health system. Unfortunately, life isn't fair . Also, I've read another point of view on this: http://www.guardian.co.uk/science/blog/2012/dec/17/adam-lanza-medicalisation-evil Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maddison Posted December 17, 2012 Report Share Posted December 17, 2012 Some words attributed to the respected actor Morgan Freeman* have been circulating on social media and obviously struck a chord: "You want to know why? This may sound cynical, but here's why. It's because of the way the mediar reports on it. Flip on the news and watch how we treat the Batman theater shooter and the Oregon mall shooter like celebrities. Dylan Klebold and Eric Harris are household names, but do you know the name of a single victim of Columbine? Disturbed people who would otherwise just off themselves in their basements see the news and want to top it by doing somthing worse, and going out in a memorable way. Why a grade school? Why children? Because he'll be remembered as a horrible monster, instead of a sad nobody." Evil exists without excuse. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SweetDeanie Posted December 17, 2012 Report Share Posted December 17, 2012 It is an interesting article, certainly one to ponder on, but then of course what is the definition of Evil, for example is someone Evil BEFORE they commit a crime? Or only defined as evil once they commit an atrocity? Does that mean they are evil since birth...born evil? Because to me if someone was not born evil how could they become evil, and if something could happen to make someone evil then are they truly evil? What if something could prevent a person from committing an atrocity, would that person still be classed as evil? Do bad thoughts make us evil? etc...It's a difficult subject. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maddison Posted December 17, 2012 Report Share Posted December 17, 2012 People choose to hurt other people, they don't care a bout any one, they might enjoy hurting people. How they became evil is irrelevant, the acknowledgement that they are evil, not ill is important. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SweetDeanie Posted December 17, 2012 Report Share Posted December 17, 2012 http://www.nimh.nih.gov/about/director/2011/understanding-severe-mental-illness.shtml Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maddison Posted December 17, 2012 Report Share Posted December 17, 2012 I believe in God. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SweetDeanie Posted December 17, 2012 Report Share Posted December 17, 2012 I don't believe a loving God would allow things like this to happen, if there is a God then I don't like him/her/them very much. God is supposed to be a perfect know all being....it is apparent he is as fallible as humans based on my own experience of life and research in to the bible and the world around me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maddison Posted December 18, 2012 Report Share Posted December 18, 2012 We can't discuss this here and I only said I believed in God to make clear that certain acts cannot be explained by doctors in my opinion. If one of my kids got killed in one of these school shootings I wouldn't want to be defending the person who carried out the murders through illness. This attack took a lot of planning, as other attacks have also. The sort of planning a really ill person couldn't do. I'm not coming back to this topic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jinxsta Posted December 18, 2012 Report Share Posted December 18, 2012 I have to say I steered clear earlier because I have an opinion I fear i could be judged on, and I don't wish to experience any conflict right now, im conflicted enough.... BUT equally i feel i have to be true to myself.. You need a mind to lose one. Being very ill doesn't ALWAYS mean you lose your ability to do certain things, you can just have messed up beliefs. Personally I COULD have seriously hurt people in my time, INNOCENT people, but at the time I thought I HAD to do "evil" acts to save others EG: I was thinking my cousin was poisoning all the family in my head constant was "if i don't kill her, we will all die".... at first being able to be rational, ignore it, my responsibility was to tell people I didn't think my head was right.. after not receiving help, it just kept going round until I believed these thoughts one hundred percent, I was sinking further into illness then one day i actually beat the crap out of her, she could've died... I would never, ever hurt ANYONE intentionally that bad in a sane mind, and anyone who knows me, knows that... does that make evil? to me at the time I was saving people, I had to kill one to save a dozen.. what im trying to say is we do not know what kind of demons this guy had, what he thought was going on. Its sad anyway and my heart goes out to all those affected, just hope the victims have gone on to a much better place where we dont have to fear this shit. xx xx xx Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maddison Posted December 18, 2012 Report Share Posted December 18, 2012 Evil exists and may be people don't want to hear that because it says they are evil or people that hurt them are evil. Evil exists it kills people every day and always has done. Evil killed 6 million Jews, in the second world war, or were people just ill! Evil is real and it hurts all of us at times. We all have the capacity to be evil and not every ill deed can be masked as illness. If your kid was killed you might look at this differently. It is all well thinking calmly and openly that every one is a victim of life or circumstance, being laid back and liberal in your views. When evil comes knocking you know what it is. When my parents beat us it was evil. When my dad sexually abused and intimidated me it was evil. When some one can plan to buy guns, know what times a school opens and closes and aims to take the maximum number of kids, they are evil. Instead of looking at your self, worrying you are evil, look at the victims. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fanta Posted December 18, 2012 Report Share Posted December 18, 2012 Evil exists and may be people don't want to hear that because it says they are evil or people that hurt them are evil. Evil exists it kills people every day and always has done. Evil killed 6 million Jews, in the second world war, or were people just ill! Evil is real and it hurts all of us at times. We all have the capacity to be evil and not every ill deed can be masked as illness. If your kid was killed you might look at this differently. It is all well thinking calmly and openly that every one is a victim of life or circumstance, being laid back and liberal in your views. When evil comes knocking you know what it is. When my parents beat us it was evil. When my dad sexually abused and intimidated me it was evil. When some one can plan to buy guns, know what times a school opens and closes and aims to take the maximum number of kids, they are evil. Instead of looking at your self, worrying you are evil, look at the victims. I 100% agree with this, I wrote here last night but felt I would be attacked for it so I deleted what I wrote. I don't see or how anyone can defend this person mentally ill or not, If he wanted to kill himself then go ahead and do it there was no need to go and kill all those innocent kids and teachers. As it has already been said here how would anyone feel if it was our own child? would any of us be defending him? I would think not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maddison Posted December 18, 2012 Report Share Posted December 18, 2012 I am aghast any one is even standing by and considering defending evil as a disguised mental illness. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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