So Called Former Borderlines Are Really Full Of Bs

[toaster]

from my understanding, a disorder is the thought process, not neccessarily the actions xx

[foreverborderline]

OK, Why don't we just agree that BPD cannot be cured or ever fully recovered from but it can go into remission where symptoms or criteria are not present but of course like any disorder/illness/disease that goes into remission it can always resurface.

Fair enough ?

My BPD has gone into remission in past but always resurfaces worse than before. No cure is possible, I think we all can agree on that as all the medical evidence points that way.

So we do not go further in circles, lets talk about what it means to be cured, I think we all can agree that BPD is only able to be managed , not cured.

The point is we all want to get better, but what does better mean ?

[artofdrowning]

i dont know if this is relavant to the original posters thoughts but i think its possible to be a functioning borderline, the same way that some alcoholics hold down decent jobs and relationships and some end up living on the streets. is it also not possiblke that some people have bpd but suffer bigger extremes of emtions and behaviours or certainly it can go in cycles. could this mean therefor that people are recovered in the sense they never suffer the symptoms or very few of them while others continue to suffer from many. i dont have any fixed opinion on whether bpd can be *cured* or not by the way.

[foreverborderline]

Those were not threats, really did harm myself. Of course I am having problems or as you call them tantrums, I am not well like some and as a counselor you have compassion for that. If you were my counselor and talked to me this way in a session I would right away report you to your licensing body. It is not a temper tantrum, why would a counselor and someone who supposed to know BPD talk to people in such a way, further proof that you are not cured so yes I am right Josh, must be easy to get MH degress in Britain huh ?

You think I am wrong here and throwing a tantrum when I have every right to feel this way being how you and some others talk to me.

I think we should all step back and see this for what it is , I am trying to be civil and you are still fighting, who is throwing the tantrum ?

Back on topic, why can't you just come clean and admit that saying you are cured in your book is dangerous and irresponsible as we ALL know there is no cure and the disorder can only be managed, I am sure that you have done well in managing BPD as you have a nice site here and prob a nice life but you are not cured, evidence by your sarcasm and other ways of talking, sounds like maybe you also have Anti Social Personality Disorder, just a thought.

The fact you harmed yourself does not make what you did any better. People were expressing a view that differed to your own and in doing so you stated that you would then hurt yourself, this leaving many people extremely concerned and feeling guilty.

The fact is I’m not your counsellor, I am here as myself and offer my own opinion on what i have witnessed through reading your thread and people's responses to them. Your response to this is to insult me continuously and attempt to diagnose the problems you perceive i have.

Well, just because you are a counselor does not mean your opinion is the only one that counts. I never insulted you, just pointed out to you what you may not be able to see because of your denial.

[sanctuary]

forever I think you are wasting your time trying to get everyone to agree..... what's the obsession with it. Why not let people make up their own mind. Why are you trying so hard to change people's minds? What good do you think will come of this?

Recovery is a personal thing. How can you apply your experience and opinion to a bunch of people you've never even met?

Please, stop forcing it down our throats. It's like being told not to believe in god because he doesn;t exist. Are you going to strip people of their personal faith?

Please, you have said it so much now. Whatever your original reason, I'm sure it's taken on a life of it's own now. Perhaps you are really wanting to argue about Joshua all day. If so why not pm him dude.

[Joshua]

Maybe that is the problem then, that you don’t see that you are actually insulting. My whole issue here is that you do not seem to allow others to have their own opinions without the fear of being set upon by you, now you attempt to make this into an issue we share.

[foreverborderline]

i dont know if this is relavant to the original posters thoughts but i think its possible to be a fanctioning borderline, the same way that some alcoholics hold down decent jobs and relationships and some end up living on the streets. is it also not possiblke that some people have bpd but suffer bigger extremes of emtions and behaviours or certainly it can go in cycles. could this mean therefor that people are recovered in the sense they never suffer the symptoms or very few of them while others continue to suffer from many. i dont have any fixed opinion on whether bpd can be *cured* or not by the way.

I can certainly agree with you on the functional BPD part, just like with any disorder. I am barely functional , but I can see your point on the functional alcoholic part as well as I am a functional addict, well, kind of I guess.. because I do not have a job but do not live on streets and have a relationship. Thanks for your input and respectful opinion btw.

[pepsimeg]

forever I think you are wasting your time trying to get everyone to agree..... what's the obsession with it. Why not let people make up their own mind. Why are you trying so hard to change people's minds? What good do you think will come of this?

Recovery is a personal thing. How can you apply your experience and opinion to a bunch of people you've never even met?

Please, stop forcing it down our throats. It's like being told not to believe in god because he doesn;t exist. Are you going to strip people of their personal faith?

Please, you have said it so much now. Whatever your original reason, I'm sure it's taken on a life of it's own now. Perhaps you are really wanting to argue about Joshua all day. If so why not pm him dude.

well said this debate is boring now,,,, foreverborderline doesnt think theres a cure.........end of......

[foreverborderline]

Maybe that is the problem then, that you don’t see that you are actually insulting. My whole issue here is that you do not seem to allow others to have their own opinions without the fear of being set upon by you, now you attempt to make this into an issue we share.

Well, actually I do allow people to have their opinions, there have been countless posters that I have had respectful debates with on this thread, they even told me so. I go at people who come at me in a very aggressive manner accusing me of things untrue. Like, Guntarded , Shawn, and Redman came at me with insults and accusations that were hurtful so I came back at them, but otherwise I try to be respectful. It may appear I have insulted you Josh because I question if you truly are cured and I analyze this fact. I just see

you as having an attitude and in my experience people that are mentally and emotionally stable do not act in the ways that you have acted or say the things that you have said, as a MH professional you are held to a higher standard. Not to be Narcissistic but I feel

I am right here, and that I have valid points about the topic in this thread.

[Joshua]

What you are missing is there is many people here who have been upset by you.

[foreverborderline]

forever I think you are wasting your time trying to get everyone to agree..... what's the obsession with it. Why not let people make up their own mind. Why are you trying so hard to change people's minds? What good do you think will come of this?

Recovery is a personal thing. How can you apply your experience and opinion to a bunch of people you've never even met?

Please, stop forcing it down our throats. It's like being told not to believe in god because he doesn;t exist. Are you going to strip people of their personal faith?

Please, you have said it so much now. Whatever your original reason, I'm sure it's taken on a life of it's own now. Perhaps you are really wanting to argue about Joshua all day. If so why not pm him dude.

I guess I just want people to see how saying they are cured from a disorder which has no cure is dangerous and harmful. I do not believe I am obsessed with it at all, I just stand firm in my belief that BPD never goes away and worry about the message it sends to a new person with BPD when people say it can be cured when the medical proof shows otherwise. Recovery is personal this is true, but the disorder does not change, the disorder is not curable, maybe people can get better with personal recovery and help in individual ways but BPD remains the same, not trying to change anyone's mind but just get them to see the truth. I wish there was a cure but after much research and studying this disorder it is clear there is not, hopefully one day there will be but now there is not.

Pming people I have an issue with is a good idea.

Thanks

[foreverborderline]

What you are missing is there is many people here who have been upset by you.

Are they upset by me or did I just open their eyes to the truth they did not want to see ? Maybe they wanted to believe that you can be cured from BPD and did not want to face the harsh reality that it is not possible.

What you are missing is that many people here UPSET me.

[Joshua]

Are they upset by me or did I just open their eyes to the truth they did not want to see ? Maybe they wanted to believe that you can be cured from BPD and did not want to face the harsh reality that it is not possible.

What you are missing is that many people here UPSET me.

You again belittle the fact you have upset people and again bring the hardship back to yourself. You have upset people, no matter what the reason the fact remains.

[foreverborderline]

One more thing, I think this thread is excellent, 300+ posts, that has gotta be a record right ?

I think that much of it has gone in circles, but the point is that we all have opinions so why not express them, even if

they are controversial and unpopular.

I never thought people would get offended, but I had to say something and fight for this belief as after reading Rachel Reinland's book amongst others I was OFFENDED that someone would say there is a cure when all the medical and psych texts and info say there is no cure,

every doc I have ever known says the same thing, so someone had to step out of the shadows and say something.

I stand proud that I have done so.

[foreverborderline]

Are they upset by me or did I just open their eyes to the truth they did not want to see ? Maybe they wanted to believe that you can be cured from BPD and did not want to face the harsh reality that it is not possible.

What you are missing is that many people here UPSET me.

You again belittle the fact you have upset people and again bring the hardship back to yourself. You have upset people, no matter what the reason the fact remains.

And I have said over and over that I am sorry if I upset anyone. You made me cry but have you apologized ?

[pepsimeg]

i think we all believe what we want to belive..........

[Joshua]

One more thing, I think this thread is excellent, 300+ posts, that has gotta be a record right ?

You believe the reason for this many posts is the fact its an interesting discussion rather than the fact that you have insulted people, others have come to their rescue and some have tried to challange you. This thread is so long due to these reasons in my opinion.

[foreverborderline]

One more thing, I think this thread is excellent, 300+ posts, that has gotta be a record right ?

You believe the reason for this many posts is the fact its an interesting discussion rather than the fact that you have insulted people, others have come to their rescue and some have tried to challange you. This thread is so long due to these reasons in my opinion.

You can't admit when you are mistaken can you ? :huh:

[Joshua]

You can't admit when you are mistaken can you ?

What is it specifically your referring to?

[Dani]

Forever,i replied originally to the thread and felt very sorry that you

are in so much pain right now.and i still am.It is really sad that you feel there is no hope for you.For me personally i believe there is always hope...if we dont have hope then what do we have?

You see you believe you are right but what makes you right over everybody else?

Everyone has their own beliefs.

You don't feel you have insulted anyone bit from what i have read you have insulted joshua for one.You say just because he is a counseller it doesnt mean only he's opinnion counts?no it doesnt...but neither does only yours.

you don't believe you can get better or anyone with bpd can recover...i and others disagree and some agree with you.There's nothing wrong with having different opinnions.I think yours and most peoples point has been made clearly.

i hope one day things do get better for you and you find a way out of the darkness you in now.i wouldnt wish that feeling on anyone.

[Data]

I think that much of it has gone in circles, but the point is that we all have opinions so why not express them, even if they are controversial and unpopular.

You can never have absolute freedom of speech.

If your opinion is "there is a bomb in this cinema!", that wouldn't go down too well......

[foreverborderline]

You can't admit when you are mistaken can you ?

What is it specifically your referring to?

The fact that you cannot admit that I have valid points, maybe you cannot admit it because you truly feel you are cured, and you won't admit that there is no cure, if you truly knew the disorder or any personality disorder then you would know that there is no cure, only management of symptoms.

I think the whole thread was about calling people like you to come out and say there is a cure to do the responsible thing and admitting they may be better but NOT cured. It is the responsible thing to do Josh.

Well, I am gonna take a break and go post about my feelings about ME around the board and just let you guys debate on your own for a bit.

Seems you are unwilling to see my side of things.

[foreverborderline]

I think that much of it has gone in circles, but the point is that we all have opinions so why not express them, even if they are controversial and unpopular.

You can never have absolute freedom of speech.

If your opinion is "there is a bomb in this cinema!", that wouldn't go down too well......

There is always freedom of speech but always people who censor it too, that is the sad part.

[shawnm339]

my final comment on this sorry affair, you wanted attention you got it, you wanted drama you got it...this has in it's own little way answered all your hopes and prayers when you originally typed something very derogatory to the BPD world as a whole, you want to take whatever shit you like and write it off to BPD you do that, you want to tell yourself there's no cure for your actions you do that, end of the day we're not in your world and you're certainly not in mine, if you was in a support group with me I'd be telling the leader to ask you to leave, your negativity leeches off all the great work most of the other memebers do in not only dealing with their own BPD but supporting the rest of us.....we've all made our points you don't think it can be cured you got your 60 seconds of fame you do not want to listen to anyone else..you took what I said as aggressive it was as much truth as I could share about myself cos I've certainly been where you've been, do I want to admit defeat now? fuck no else I'd have killed myself on the numerous occasions I've threatened it...I'm here because despite being at the bottom of the well I now realise feeling around here there are others like me and maybe together we can all by helping and supporting each other climb out of the well to join the rest of the world.....you call it managing someone else calls it a cure does it really fucking matter...at the moment I'm right at the beginning of my journey will I fail sometimes? absolutely but I will pick myself up dust myself and keep trying cos if I don't I may as well kill myself I refuse to write myself off.

Apologies to anyone else I offended

Shawn

[Joshua]

The fact that you cannot admit that I have valid points, maybe you cannot admit it because you truly feel you are cured, and you won't admit that there is no cure, if you truly knew the disorder or any personality disorder then you would know that there is no cure, only management of symptoms.

You wish to push me into stating something that i dont believe. Your opinion is yours and one your entitled to but your not entitled to push this onto other people and belittle them when they disagree.