So Called Former Borderlines Are Really Full Of Bs

[hummm_mabbe]

I agree with josh. this thread has really knocked my hope that i might get better and live a normal life if i am diagnosed with bpd. i really hope that your pessimism is just that, and not truth.

Hi Amy

It really is true that belief plays an enormous role in recovery from MH problems. It sounds very airy fairy and a bit 'zen', but the more you hold onto hope, and the more you try and pick up any and all tools, approaches, sources of support as possible (and some might say, the more willing you are to face and accept discomfort on the path to better feelings), the more likely you are to get better. Some people think that therapy is something that is 'done to' a person - that they turn up and get treated and the pain goes away. This makes sense because we are used to our western model of 'have illness / go to docs / get given drugs or have operation'. We have a medicalised view of emotional problems too, but it is not how THERAPY works (acute, psychiatric symptoms are a separate area from psychotherapy)

Actually therapy is something that happens when the person takes part in it, bringing their feelings in, dealing with behaviours, relationships - especially with the therapist. In fact its argued by some that the therapy relationship, and working through its problems, makes up around 50% of any therapy. Especially in PD's which have such an impact on relationships, learning how to view yourself and others differently, in the context of relationships, is absolutely vital. And of course, your feelings drive behaviours, and behaviour is where you meet with the world. It causes reaction, and our own inner experience colours that reaction too. Its all a chain of events, so there are many levels to work on, all of which require the person to do, feel and think in ways they may not have before. It also asks them to feel pain that they usually want to avoid, and this always takes a long time. Relapse and failures are part of the process, and its whether you can pick that hope back up again that dictates whether you try again.

Sadly with PD's, its likely to take far longer, and involve more relapses and failures, than with most other mental health issues. Its an added injustice we face.

Also ask yourself what you mean when you say "get better". Medical models use 'reduction of symptoms', but most actual sufferers think in terms of the life they want to lead. Define what you want out of life, what is missing now, and it becomes easier in therapy to start unravelling these things.

Ross

[foreverborderline]

Joshua I never meant to knock anyone's hope. It is in my experience and of all those I have known with BPD that recovery is pretty impossible, if you have tried as many things as I have to recover and none of them worked then you would feel hopeless too. I honestly did not mean you any harm, I am sure you worked hard to get to where you are at, I just do not believe that people can become former borderline, I believe we have this forever and I really wish people would not give the community a false sense of hope.

Amy, I did not mean to give you this message that there is no hope. I believe that with good therapy and meds that people can get better and I only wish the best for you, I however do not have access to a doctor or therapy and am left to deal with all of this on

my own. So of course my situation is hopeless, I hope that yours is not and you get the help you need and deserve.

[AmyP]

thanks foreverborderline i really hope you find strength and get the resources you need to feel better

[foreverborderline]

Ross I myself wish I had the chance to "take part in therapy" but I have no access to therapy as I have no health insurance. I wish I had an opportunity to get better but unfortunately I do not and as a result I will only get worse and worse until I give up and die, I think you have great advice for Amy and others there though and thanks for your cander.

[foreverborderline]

thanks foreverborderline i really hope you find strength and get the resources you need to feel better

Thanks, I wish I could but it does appear very bleak and hopeless for me right now and in the near and distant future. :(

[AmyP]

dont take this personally but i hope your wrong. everyone deserves to get better and to get the oppertunity to grow and expand

[hummm_mabbe]

Hi forever

I did read online that there is a movement away from the sort of acute, psychiatric model of care in the US, and towards a more 'recovery' oriented one - which should hopefully include access to therapy for more people. It was just a line I read on a wiki page about MH issues, and I am not up to speed with Obama's healthcare plans and things.

For me one of the best self-help routes I ever took was learning mindfulness meditation - it helps with pain and distress tolerance, makes you more accepting of how things are, and prompts you to change and take a look at many deeply set parts of yourself. There are also a number of DBT related books, where you can begin to get an idea of how that therapy works with BPD. I am not saying a book will neceassarily be enough, but it may be a start.

Sometimes hopelessness can be a springboard for new things. Alcoholics Anonymous even recognises that 'hitting rockbottom' and 'surrender' are a necessary part of getting clean. Its just that you reach that hopeless place whilst surrounded by a support group. Im not sure if you have access to these groups, or perhaps if you feel you have tried and failed with them? If you have, then I would say go back and try again, because failure is part of the process.

Ross

[Ulrica]

foreverborderline, my heart breaks a little when I read what you write. Having been addicted to meth myself I know how hard a hold that drug gets on you. It makes me so darn angry that the US healtcare system is what it is. Although Sweden is okay it terms of health care if one has any one MH disorder plus a drug/alcohol addiction one gets kicked out from the MH system, and one cannot get treatment for addiction if one has other MH problems. I know a lot of people over here who are scared to tell their PDocs or therapists that they have drug problems, because then they would get no care at all. When I had my bout with meth I shut up, I never told the MH professionals, because if I did, I wouldn't get any care at all. It angers me that it's like this over here, and that it's the same where you are.

I can understand why you feel the way that you do. It's hard to have hope when the world seems to have lost it's hope and faith in you, when you have lost nearly all hope for yourself. I have myself lost almost all hope in myself but the little I do have left is what keeps me fighting. I hope you can hold on to your hope, no matter how small, so that perhaps, maybe one day things will be a bit brighter for you. For no one can tell what the future holds, it may be no change, it may just be darkness, but there is also a chance (no matter how small, it is still a chance) that there is light and joy.

[icu_baby]

I think people need to realize that foreverborderline is in a country where if you are poor you cannot get access to treatment.

Those of you in the UK can get treatment if you are poor and that is where the difference lies.

[Data]

I think people need to realize that foreverborderline is in a country where if you are poor you cannot get access to treatment.

I think that is a real tragedy.

[Roses]

Yes, in the UK we get free healthcare and it is a blessing in some ways. In others it isn't. I didn't receive any proper psyche input until a few years ago (I am now aged 34 and took first overdose aged 16 been sh since I was about 7). So although we have the "care" he we often don't receive it and are left out in the dark, alone and scared for many, many years. Only this weekend I called the "crisis" team who didn't know anything or offer me anything although I was suicidal and having sh visions etc... and going into a psychotic kind of place. And as I have two children all through holidays (and summer is 6 weeks) I cannot access support centre or therapy as I can't take them with me. Sometimes friends can have them or my partner can have a day off but apart from that I am basically abandonded during any school holidays or if the children are sick. Apparently you are not allowed young children if you have mental health issues. So many times they have had to wait in the mh waiting room with toys and books whilst my husband and I desperately try and attend my psychiatrist reviews.

The only thing that keeps me going is the hope that it can be different. The "power of intent" is very powerful and central to most religious/recovery type things. AA (or an "anonymous" organisation) follow the prayer or mantra don't they. The one about knowing what is the right path and god granting them the power to know which is the right one etc.... so that is why so many of us defend hope so vehemently. I don't know if you can read this or if you have blocked me now.

[guntarded]

Not willing to have it used against me outside the forum. Forgot the site I am on you can't trust information to be used to help someone else, but to cause harm.

[Dustbinbabe]

AA Mantra -

God, grant me the Serenity

to accept the things I cannot change,

courage to change the things I can,

and the wisdom to know the difference.

Living one day at a time,

enjoying one moment at a time,

accepting hardship as the

pathway to Peace.

Taking, as He did, this sinful world

As it is, not as I would have it;

Trusting that He will make all things

right if I surrender to His will;

That I may be reasonably happy

in this life, and supremely happy

with Him in the next.

Amen.

Attributed, Reinhold Niebuhr

[hummm_mabbe]

I think people need to realize that foreverborderline is in a country where if you are poor you cannot get access to treatment.

Those of you in the UK can get treatment if you are poor and that is where the difference lies.

Not to nitpick, but the difference is that 'not having access to treatment' is not the same as 'BPD being incurable'. It may be effectively incurable as the result of no treatment, but coming back to the OP, the fact that forever has no access to treatment does not logically mean that anyone who says they recovered from BPD must be a fake.

So whilst its important to have sympathy for his condition, its worth seeing why people have reacted critically. Perhaps if he had spoken of the hopelessness of his situation and vented his anger about it, rather than projecting that anger onto others such as Josh and making them a target, this thread may have panned out differently. I think people would have had a great deal more time and sympathy.

Ross

[bena.baby]

what ross said

[*Summer*]

Not even getting into this discussion but i agree with what Ross said.xxxx

[toocrazy]

:blush:

[Dani]

When someone accuses others of bullshitting its going to provoke such reactions as on this thread.And when hope is taken

away its going to anger a lot of people.Foreverborderline your anger was miss directed at people who have recovered such as joshua

but i know from what youve said that you are hurting and have lost all hope yourself.I know i have lashed out at the wrong people when ive been angry...

i hope you one day believe that what is possible for others is possible for you.

[wordsmithy]

Hugs for Mr Forever Borderline x :hug2:

[guntarded]

My previous unedited post foreverborderline was a personal account of my own bpd with reference to some very personal experiences being shared so that you can see that you are not the only broken, no hoper and the struggle I came through to come to a place I am at now.

Unfortunately due to manipulative and devious people my post detailing traumatic events has now been laughed at and brought to my attention, so the support I wanted to offer you through my own experience can no longer happen.

So my last post on this, you will be forever borderline, I hope you enjoy your dependent life. I am sorry I cannot help you, but I can't even begin to assist someone that can't be bothered to help himself except complain. So good luck to you. I am officially off this.

[shakemymilk]

I am tired of people looking to hurt others, clearly whoever thinks that borderlines are BS'ers need to get a grip on life. BPD in my opinion one of the most frustrating MH issues in that it take a huge amount of time to be diagnosed its not bold and obvious like some disorders and people are at risk of suffering their whole life without knowing they have BPD. I personally know two people who have bpd, one is a girl and she is 37, she had a terrible childhood and got trampled on by many people for a while, when she finally got the help she needed to come to terms with her past she found out she had BPD and she is so much happier, she still has BPD but the more she comes to terms with her past the better her life becomes.

I hate whoever thinks BPD is made up....Idiots

[Barebones]

Forever, why not go back to NA? im sure they will help u through this. Also its free.

Other than that, my brain is exhausted after reading all the replies.

[foreverborderline]

Let me try to address everyone's post here, although that may be difficult as it is hard to keep up. I wish people really cared but the reason many people have responded is because I somehow offended them and for that I am sorry. Someone writes to me why I do not go back to NA as they can help me, and the truth is I go to meetings almost daily and it really does not help. I still end up using and feeling the way I do. I also go to an outpatient drug treatment groups and it helps a little but not much.

Ross writes there is a vast difference between not having access to treatment and BPD being incurable. I agree Ross and even when I had access to treatment my BPD did not get better. I never said that people were fakes, WHAT I SAID was that nobody can lose their BPD diagnosis, it just is not possible. Sure their symptoms may decrease and their quality of life may increase but the disorder does not go away. I do speak of the hopelessness of my situation but I also speak as someone who was once in school to be a doctor and I know a little bit about this disorder and once you have BPD you always have it, it is just like AIDS in that it may get better but never goes away. Also Ross writes that I should try AA/NA again, I try it daily and it does not help, I will continue trying it but have little hope of getting better.

I wish I had a P doc or therapist to tell about my drug problem or anything else, people complain about how bad mental health care is in the UK but at least it is better to have SOMETHING rather than nothing like I have.

Anyway, I do not see any hope for me but I will continue to post my feelings on BPDWORLD. The point of all of this was not to knock anyone down or knock down their hope, I do hope people can get better and will. The point of all this was my anger at people who say they no longer have BPD when I know from my studies in pre med school that BPD cannot be cured, it never goes away, you don't lose the diagnosis and the people who say they have RECOVERED from BPD are not right, they may have gotten better but they still BPD, once you have it you have it for life , read anything on the disorder from an actual doctor and it will say exactly that. Don't hate me , it is pure medical fact that this disorder cannot be cured.

[foreverborderline]

Yes Dani I have lost all hope in myself, very true. I am not angry at Joshua or others who have falsely claimed to no longer have BPD, I just think that it misinforms people suffering, saying that BPD can be cured is DANGEROUS and does no justice to those who suffer. People need to know that this disorder can be treated but NOT cured. THAT is what this whole thread is about, I wanted people to know that BPD IS A FOREVER ILLNESS and we all need to accept that.

[notawallflower]

I wrote a long, well thought out, nicely worded reply.

Then I gave up.

I've tried here, but now I feel that you're abusing the service.