Jobcentreplus Interview

[realscape]

A quick update:

Today I spoke to an MH advocate, she feels that the appointment was possibly sent in error. However, she did say that it would be best to tell them I feel too unstable to attend such an appointment until the times comes when I feel like thinking about looking for work. So, guys, for those in the same position, I think this is the best idea.

[poodle]

thanks for the update Real, and sorry this has triggered you so badly.

Thinking of you,

Poodle

xxx

[realscape]

Thanx Poodle :)

[Eva*]

Let's hope they'll leave you alone for the next two years now.

I hate people making mistakes so that I have to talk to them while I'm so anxious of talking to anyone.

I'm glad you found some advocacy.

Love

Eva

[lostsoul]

real.. perhaps you could outline exactly what i said that offended you

x

[jai]

((((((Real))))))

good news that they will leave you alone, buggers!! i just can nt imagine what our leaders would want for their loved ones in our situations but hey, they clearly dont have to with the comfort of a green queen covered blanket!

i am due my ib review in November and am not sure what happens now either, i wonder who i should ask about this anyone got any clues...?

jai

[realscape]

hmmmm. ok, well i had one of those meetings and it was basically a case of them saying what do you have and me very vaguely outlining it. then they asked me whether i was in treatment and whether the treatment had worked for others. they also asked me if i was planning to go back to work or what things they could do to help me go back to work. but it wasn't like pressurising or anything - they were literally JUST asking. it is merely an information gathering session and not that intimidating or accusatory at all.

to be honest, the questions were invasive, but at the end of the day, the people asking them ARE part of the system (i mean the people at the job centre), and as such, need to play their part within it. whilst you might not agree with it, that IS how the system works, and if you don't play the game (and as bets said, it's better to play in the long run) then you risk losing benefits. for me, that is more stressful than going to the interview, so i went, and i took it with good grace. yes it was a bit stressful/ unpleasant, but i can't have it my way, so i have to do it theirs.

if people want to get into advocacy, well ok. for me it's too much stress. if i could handle writing people letters and having hostile conversations with people on the phone, then i wouldn't need benefits anyway, cos i could get a job. my path is the easiest one lol. the other thing that comes to mind is that the government are paying me money. i think they have the right therefore to request various proofs as to why they are giving it to me. whether this is requested by a jobcentre member of staff or a medical professional is irrelevant to me. at the end of the day, if i am willing to discuss my problems with a doctor, why am i not willing to talk about them at the jobcentre?

if someone is paying me money for something which CAN change (and mental illness is not always permanent) then they have the right IMO to ask for interviews to catch oup every so often on a person's surrent status.

i agree however that they could do these interviews perhaps by other means - like have someone arrange to visit with the person and their psych/careworker/therapist etc, instead of having it take place at a jobcentre. i do think that it's a bit offputting talking to someone who you know doesn't know about pd's, which can be difficult to explain at the best of times.

good luck real. i hope you find a solution you're happy with.

xx losty xx

Lost, so much of what you yourself wrote conflicts with yourself, let alone conflicts with the reality of this situation. And the tone you wrote is as if to say that my refusing to play along for looking for work means that I am well, which I can assure you I'm not, is offensive to me. I think playing along with looking for a job means that you are playing the system and shouldn't be in Incap Ben in the first instance.

The reality of what is happening here in UK is that the government have publically stated that they intend to get over 1 million people off Incapacity Benefits and into work this financial year. Therefore, this is not a simple request for them to check that you are entitled to your benefits. Of course, they are entitled to check that you aren't frauding, that you really are ill, that you live where you say you live etc etc. It is already practically impossible to get onto benefits in the first instance because of how many checks they make. Now, however, they have decided that despite whether people are signed off on Incapacity Benefit because they are ill, they are going to treat us the same as jobseekers. This is including people who are signed off permanently as well as people who are taking time out of work with stress related illnesses and actually have full time jobs to go back to.

When doctors pass their exams they take the hippocratic oath. That means that your personal medical information is legally private and confidential. That means that when you go to the dss to have your claim reviewed it is done by a medical doctor. Now, the government is stating that we have to go to the Job Centre and detail our complex mental health problems and how they affect us to someone with no medical training whatsoever. However, because that would be a breach of confidentiality they are getting around it by saying that we don't have to tell them what is wrong with us, we just have to tell them how it affects our ability at work. How can it be possible for us to do that? How can I discuss my problems without discussing my problems? Being off work sick is not about being a jobseeker. When we are signed off work by our doctor and the dss medical officer, we should not at the same time be forced to be going to the job centre to talk about what jobs we are looking for. At the same time, we should not have to be forced to tell someone why we are not looking for jobs because that was already done when we got signed off sick and when we got our benefits granted. This is not how the system works, this is a completely new system which is being snuck under the radar and which has not previously been in operation whatsoever and which they are hoping people who are too confused or intimidated to notice will be enticed into coming off Incapacity Benefit and put on Jobseekers Allowance.

You said they asked you what you have. They aren't allowed to ask you what they have. That is part of the breach of your medical confidentiality which is so confusing because when I telephoned to ask about this, she told me they're not allowed to know what is wrong with you medically and that they aren't allowed to ask you and that you don't have to tell them. It is intimidating for them to anyhow insinuate you have to tell them and we need to be defensive against it which will mean hostility, they are quietly trying to breach human rights and the law. When the government starts breaching human rights then something very wrong is happening. You say the questions were invasive but then you say there is nothing wrong with that. If you don't mind being invaded then that is fine but I find it outrageous. There are laws which mean only certain people are allowed to invade your privacy, Job Centre employment advisors are not those people. You say it was stressful and unpleasant and then you excuse that as well. Why are you making excuses for them and sweeping your own feelings under the carpet? When you are signed off work by a doctor, a psychiatrist and a dss medical officer, nobody in a Job Centre should have the right to make your life more stressful and unpleasant than it already is. You are excusing them whilst they violate your rights. Charities and activists dedicate their lives to trying to stop these things happening to us and then you go and say 'oh, I don't mind'. You say that getting advocacy is too stressful for you. So, people who feel threatened, stressed, and are worried that their rights and legal medical confidentiality is being violated means that they are well enough to work according to your thinking? But people who don't mind their rights being violated and can cope with intrusive questioning and can take the stress of going to a job centre to talk about looking for jobs are unwell? This is a hostile situation, but apparently me finding it hostile means I am well? How do you work that one out?

Your path is not the easiest one, it is the one the government are using to take your benefits away from you (or another million people). If you were too sick to work you would be scared shitless by that and feeling hostile and threatened, as I am, and seeking advocacy and making hostile phone calls - not tootling off to the job centre to tell them which job you would like. We have already proven our benefits over and over again in order to get them. If you feel that it doesn't matter whether a medically qualified person deals with your medical situation and feel that its OK for someone from the Job Centre to do it then that is your personal right but I would say it is a very lax approach and that I strongly disagree with what you say. I should say there are about a billion reasons why most people would prefer to discuss their medical issues with a doctor than someone employed at a job centre. Some of us have very abusive and distressing issues. There are laws governing these situations for that reason. If you personally feel there is no relevance to confidentiality then that is your personal opinion, but to be so glib and critical of people such as myself who find it ethically wrong, then that comes across as offensive.

I completely agree that our situations should be reviewed. My own personal situation is up for review by a dss medical officer in 2 years. However, that is a very very different thing than being told I have to madatorily go to the Job Centre to detail what job I am looking for when I am not on Jobseekers Allowance and am not currently looking for a job. Furthermore, according to her, every single person in UK will be mandatorily forced to do the same thing. That is a mockery of Incapacity Benefits and of medical opinion. We already have interviews and referral letters and forms to fill out to prove our status. Now they are trying to slide us into jobseeking without officially stating it. I know people who have fallen down this hole and have lost everything. This is a game that cannot afford to be played. Yes, fill out the forms, yes get your medical reports, yes attend dss medical reviews but don't start talking about which job you're looking for because that would in fact mean you're frauding Incap Ben in the first instance. They want to get a million of us off Incap Ben and the mentally ill are being targetting. This is not a game to be played lightly.

[lostsoul]

i really don't think i deserve to be lampooned over what i said.

i think the real reason you take umbridge with me is because i don't see the world the way you do and you feel threatened somehow by this. i cannot seem to offer an opposing point of view without it being taken by you as an offensive statement of some sort. i never said i thought you were well enough to work. what i said was that I, yes 'I', would be well enough for work if i could have a confrontational conversation with that lady at the jobcentre. i never said you were well enough to work because you managed to have that kind of a conversation. what is the case for me is not the case for everyone else, and i accept this.

real - you do what you do yeah? you do what works for you. i do what works for me. you have your opinions and i have mine. that's absolutely fine. i worry that you think i am out to get you as much as you think the world is out to get you. it simply isn't true, on both counts.

i hope that you can see where i am coming from but you probably won't. if you thought my first two posts were offensive then bloody hell, you will probably think this is a firing squad!

regards xx losty xx

[realscape]

Lost, you are now responding with an offensive remark. If you think that saying "I hope that you can see where I'm coming from but you probably won't" isn't offensive then you are mistaken. How is this style of communication going to help me feel like overcoming our differences?

Your previous remarks were also offensive and personally aimed at me, since you clearly stated that anyone capable of phoning the jobcentre and writing letters was well enough to work (two things that I had done) - a fair indication that your remark was clearly and undoubtebdly personally aimed at me. It would be very hard for anyone to interpret it differently, however, you are perfectly entitled to retract that if you are saying you didn't intend it that way. I personally find it a bit hard to believe but if that is what you are saying then I will accept it.

You have said in the past that you now feel well and ready to leave this site, so perhaps as such you are feeling well enough to work and can't relate to how threatening it is of the government to coerce ill people onto jobseekers allowance? Just a suggestion. Everyone is entitled to a different point of view but you lampooned me first, not the other way around. I strongly disagree with your point of view but I haven't started making bitchy comments towards you, however you have done to me.

[realscape]

((((((Real))))))

good news that they will leave you alone, buggers!! i just can nt imagine what our leaders would want for their loved ones in our situations but hey, they clearly dont have to with the comfort of a green queen covered blanket!

i am due my ib review in November and am not sure what happens now either, i wonder who i should ask about this anyone got any clues...?

jai

According to the woman I spoke to at JobCentrePlus, this mandatory interview has got no connection to medical reviews. Every single person on Incap Ben or DLA is being called in to discuss their job requirements. She said that it is taking quite a long time to administrate the appointments but that everyone in UK is going to get one. As I said, the only way to put it off is to say you feel too ill to go but that is only a delay tactic. She said that people who attend the appointments will be called in on a more regular basis, probably once a month. Mind have told me to go to CAB to discuss my legal rights if they insist on me attending. But regardless, every person on IB or DLA will be in this situation. For people who say they have been in the situation in the past, that can't be true because it only started this financial year.

[jai]

i had a phone call a few months back asking me how i was doing and did i need any help with a job search, i just told them i was signed off and whilst i had tried voluntarily about a year ago it reinforced that i m not ready and am too ill to try. The guy was really nice about it and did nt press me on it...this was back end of last year..

it would be nice if they were all like that i guess..but i know that from the show i listened to on this said that the gov were even considering paying gps extra on the amount of peeps they got off ib!!

watch that space to see how far it will go.....i suspect there will be some heavy duty campaigning taking place should that happen.

Real thanks for the info though, i feel better equipped to deal with this..

you are a star hon!!

love

jai

x

[realscape]

Thanks Jai

I will do a deal with my GP. However, much they pay her to get me off bens, I'll pay more for her to keep me on them. Either that or I'll do some star acting out performances which will either keep me signed off or put me behind bars.

[jai]

Real

lol.....gps the new administrators of the health service eh? well thats how i feel about mine with their new shiny practice and words of greater efficiency, i guess i must be a bit older than them , dont they know i already lived through the 80's! how many accountability schemes crawled up their own behinds in that decade?.....enough said...the whole thing would be historically amusing if we had nt all seen it before in one form or another!

Go girly should it happen. A more cynical approach to handling such a sensitive subject that affects the vulnerable i could nt think of to be honest. I wonder , maybe we do have satan in power some days!

ok, ill fetch me coat

jai

[aylaah]

ok *moderator hat on* - lost and real you're keeping this very well approached and thought out and so keep like that and your posts will remain, ok? Just be careful, and don't attack each other, discuss the difference of opinion. Separate it from the person

ok *kelly hat on* - they are doing a similar thing here in oz at the moment. All the rules have just changed. It sucks. seriously - there have been a number of rules changed to do with welfare (called the 'welfare to work' package) and working. Now these two tie together to basically say if they decide you should work, and someone offers you a piece of crap job and you think it is crap, you have to take it or they will stop paying you - and that is based on their decision on how you are.

Anyway, I'm on parenting benefits, not disability or jobseeker so I'm largely unaffected until my 5yo turns 8, by which time my hubby will earn too much for me to qualify anyway - he's an apprentice chef at the moment which pays shyte.

Sounds very similar though - the hoops that those on payments have to jump through are already difficult, especially for disability. Now they are harder. If they decide you can work 15hrs a week then you have to, and you'll be off disability and onto newstart (job seekers).

I hope you find a way around it!!

[lostsoul]

real - your idea of 'clearly stated' is pretty strange. i did not say 'anyone'. i said 'I'. do you understand the difference in these personal pronouns?

what you are doing here is twisting what i have said so that you can have a go at me. i have stated my point of view clearly. if you continue to have a go at me in this manner, i can only take it as bullying.

i think you have a distorted view of me and of what i was trying to say

x

[mrs tree]

The reality of the situation is someone who is well and just doesnt want to work is hardly going to go into the jobcentre and say I am better now just been having a great holiday.....

I did not see how any interview and discussions of returning to work with a woman who didn't know me would be of any help to my MH probs....Lets face it they have to be cost effective so are employes to get us back to work not tell us we should get a higher rate of DLA.

There are people who shouldn't be on incapacity benefit but parading everyone in front of someone at the job centre is not going to change that and why should I be put in a stressful situation based on the fact other people are dishonest....

It seems like a political exercise rather than care.....They said there are going to be therapists in JC's well why are there so many people here on waiting lists for the therapy they really need then? Are you going to trust talking to someone who is connected with your benefits to tell them how you are really coping.

I think it sucks

Mrs Tree

[jai]

i feel the same way Mrs Tree....the whole thing stinks

[realscape]

I feel same as you guys Jai and Tree.

Aylaah, you are a good moderator!

Regarding going onto the newstart scheme, I know someone who was offered to go onto newstart on the basis that their benefits would be protected for a year if it transpired they weren't well enough to maintain working. This didn't happen in reality, they felt unable to work, had benefits cut off completely, were labelled intentionally unemployed, and had to get a solicitor to fight the dss in order to get an incapacity claim open again. I realise that this is just one particular horror story and that it is the worst case scenario but if, like me, you don't have a fall back plan, partner, family, or spare cash, it could devastate your whole life. We need to make absolutely sure that we're feeling up to work again before we start discussing work plans with anyone.

[manxminx]

I've found this topic very helpful.

I had to stop work earlier this year due to my health problems, and am now getting DLA and Incapacity benefit. I had to goto an appointment last month at the job centre last month regarding the I.B. Due to the fact that I am agoraphobic and sociaphobic as well as having BPD, I found it very very stressful to attend and the bloke behind the counter kept asking if I was ok as I was having a panic attack. I told him all about my diagnosis and mental health problems, so he was left in no doubt that I am unwell.

This morning I received a letter in the post saying my next interview at the job centre is on Thursday 30th August. I immediately had a panic attack just be seeing this. It took an hour or so for me to calm down.

Unfortunately, my carer is not available to come with me on the 30th, so I'm gonna have to go on my own. As you can imagine, this is all affecting my health. I find going out on my own very stressful. The whole system stinks. I'm on DLA and IB, officially suffer from agoraphobia and generalised anxiety yet they are making me attend the job centre for an interview so that someone can tell me about me going back to work. It also appears that this is going to be a monthly appointment, which is CRAZY.

My CPN is coming round on Tuesday (she comes here for a cuppa once a week) I'll discuss with her what options I have, but at the moment, I really don't see me being able to attend the job centre on Thursday.

Real was previously advised that "it would be best to tell them I feel too unstable to attend such an appointment until the times comes when I feel like thinking about looking for work. So, guys, for those in the same position, I think this is the best idea." Yes, I'll discuss that with my cpn.

Meanwhile, has anyone had any experiences they can add to this thread, any other ideas about what people in my situation can do?

Ali.

[manxminx]

Well, in the end I was too scared to mention it to my CPN. I hid the appointment card and tried to forget about it. Difficult as it kept on worrying me. Yesterday I failed to attend. I finally owned up to my carer about it, and she phoned them today, explaining that I suffer from extreme anxiety and agoraphobia, and that I am worried that they are gonna take me off IB and make me go back to work. She was told not to worry, they wouldn't do that.

Anyways, she made an appointment with them for the end of September. My carer will go with me.

So, panic over for now.

Ali.

[messygirl]

this whole topic from the original post has really frightened me like others I would completely crack up if I had to attend anything in person to do with my benefits. I panic enough having to write things down :(

[Greensilver]

this topic has scared me too i dont know how i would cope if it came up for me im thinking of asking my cpn about it when i see him as i find it very very scary!

[RosieLee]

the bas$#@ds!

they are absolute swines I have been through this as well. best bet is to get a social worker or a CPN to go with you for support. They dont need to know who it is attending with you but for gods sake do not let them say that they want to speak to you alone. I went to mine with my dad when I was 17 and was hallucinating at the time and the guy said that he wanted to talk to me alone and my dad just damn right refused to let him do that because he put an awful amount of pressure on me to say when I would be fit for work...

tell them to F' off and write to you r local MP as well.

I received an interview letter today from my local Job Centre Plus to attend a mandatory meeting with an advisor. Apparently this is to...

"discuss how we can improve your chances of finding work now or in the future"

Well, here's me thinking that I was signed off sick for a reason. That I am not well enough to cope with thinking about my chances of finding work at the moment. I seem to recall that a qualified psychiatrist, a consultant psychologist, a consultant psychotherapist, and my GP were all contacted with reference to my Incapacity and DLA claims and that those claims were granted on a long term basis in order to take the pressure off me. And now apparently, a completely medically unqualified person who works in the Job Centre says I have to go and tell her what my difficulties are and how that is affecting me.

So, I telephoned her and told her that I will not be discussing my mental health problems with anyone who isn't medically qualified. She says that I don't have to discuss my medical problems with her and that is private and they don't get to know what type of medical problems anyone has, but I have to discuss how my medical problems affect me working. WTF??? How is it possible to maintain my legal right to medical privacy and confidentiality whilst revealing that I have mental health problems and how that affects me working and relating to others. I asked her this question. She says I have to go to the interview to explain these things to her and that afterwards they will decide how often I have to go back, anything between once a month or so or once every few years to help me get a job. FFS I am on Incap Ben and DLA not Jobseekers Allowance.

I said I have no intentions of discussing my psychiatric and mental health problems with her and that therefore there is no point in me attending the interview as I wouldn't say anything and that anyway I don't feel well enough to come to the offices just to tell her that I won't be discussing my health problems with her when I can adequately do that over the telephone. So then she says its mandatory and I HAVE to attend. So I told her that is an intrusion of my privacy, conflicts with the fact that I am signed off sick, and in its own right stressing me out and causing me anxiety which is detrimental to my health and that she isn't a doctor and she doesn't get to say whether I am medically well enough to come or not. We have a circular debate about this.

She says I am not to feel anxious or stressed or threatened about this and that the process is not going to make me feel unwell. I told her she doesn't get to dictate to me what my feelings are and that the conversation we were having in its own right was making me feel unwell and had already stressed me out and made me feel anxious and that telling someone they HAVE to attend or their benefits are at threat is a direct threat and how could that not feel threatening. I told her that I would be happy to attend medical appointments to review my situation with medically qualified people and that other than that, I felt this is intrusive, crossing boundaries and morally incorrect and almost bizarre in light of the fact that I am signed off sick by a qualified person.

Anyway, she says everyone in UK is getting this appointment. I think there needs to be advocacy for mentally ill people. This is not OK for them to do to people in my opinion. She has deferred my appointment until another time in the future but it doesn't feel like a resolution of the problem to me.

Has anyone had advocacy or support from any organisation with regard to this type of problem?