Why Would You Tell Someone If You Were Suicidal?

[icu_baby]

Just wanted to say something about the attention seeking comment- i disagree for me it has been more care seeking, i was in pain and i wanted some help and the only way i knew how was to sh/threaten suicide etc etc.

I do not like the term attention seeking at all. I find it offensive. And exactlt the view of nurses in a and e which is not helpful when someone is in so much pain they have resorted to hurting themselves in one way or another.

I think you raise a good point and I think that borderlines are at risk of the "Boy Who Cried Wolf" senario; that is they self-harm or "threaten" suicide and because it is seen as attention seeking no one takes notice but eventually the person summons enough courage to go through with the act. Lets not forget that people with BPD have a 10% risk of suicide.

I think when someone self-harms they preventative measures should be employed and extensive counselling should be given to reduce the chances of future serious self harm and suicide.

[InnerPeace]

There are provisions in place for those seeking further help but of course half the problem is reaching out further than posting in the crisis forum.

It would help is the crisis forum was only used when people are genuinely in crisis. Attention Seekers is in the Light Topics section and not the place to talk about suicidal thoughts.

But people will post in the crisis forum even when not really considering suicide because they want maximum impact and attention for how they feel, so I don't know what the solution is. As ever it's down to other members and staff to try and see who is genuinely at risk and hope that people do seek the help they need.

[sundries]

Wow, theres been loads of responses

(i think sometimes people post in crisis forum because they want to talk about the suicidal thoughts going on in their head (and thier fight against them) and crisis seems most appropriate place cos suicide can be triggering so where else would you put it? I put this thread in borderline to try and make very clear im not in slightest bit suicidal atm not had any thoughts like that for ages let alone intention - but i still thought 'should i be putting this topic in a trigger section?')

im interested so many of you say youd tell someone because you wanted to make them feel guilty, shifting responsiblity, deliberately dramatic gesture,

I also put this on a bipolar forum and i got such different responses im really suprised and i just wonder if a lot of us here havent internalised the explanations for our behaviour that professionals have given. i think its hard not to do that and start idenitfying with what they say because we are told we lack insight if we dont. im not saying this is the case, im just wonderng if it is, because ICU-BABY and pucca chick were the only persons who gave the kind of responses i got on the bipolar forum.

[sundries]

These were the kind of answers i got on the bipolar forum

1) You could be oscillating fast back and forth between wanting to die and not wanting to die.

(2) You could want to say goodbye and think that that person would not stop you/would not care (since professionals tend to shun and ignore us if we say this its not really an unrealistic belief).

(3a) You could want someone (e.g a Sam) to be with you whilst you died.

(3b) You could have misjudged the fatality of the method ie believing it would kill you in half an hour and nothing could be done even if professionals did know so you call someone cos you are scared and want them with you and dont think they could do anything (this is not as selfish as seems as lots of relatives after suicide say they wish that even if they couldnt do anything they still wish theyd been there with them in last moments) and you might not be thinking of selfishness anyway might just be afraid of being on own in final moments

(4) You could think that people would be glad to get rid of you and would want to tell them that they could be satisfied that you were going to die.

(5) You could be sharing the information with someone you believe would help you to die.

(6) You could be in a confused state of mind as to what was going on and not really be thinking straight about what you were doing or what you were saying to whom.

(7) its nice to share plans, because you arent rational it just seems like just making a comment about your future plans eg im off to peru now except instead you say by the way im going to kill myself - 'just so you know' sort of thing, as though its most normal thing in world

8) want to genuinely consider dying - so you want someone to help you weigh the decision impartially, not to stop you doing it or only give arguments against

9) want to be 'found' by professionals so as not to upset civilians eg if you were jumping off bridge so might phone before. dont want to rot away in house

10) want to explain your reasons o family (or to professionals to explain to your family) because suicide notes are quite inadequate and you believe they will realise what a sensible decision it is

11) you are doing as youre told - you completely want to die but know youve been told you should tell someoner if that is the case and you are doing so even though you think they are daft for not understanding its the best thing to do

12) want to talk about your feelings about the decision to die - you might have decided to but its still scary

13) dont want it to be a shock that comes out of the blue for people

[icu_baby]

There are provisions in place for those seeking further help but of course half the problem is reaching out further than posting in the crisis forum.

It would help is the crisis forum was only used when people are genuinely in crisis. Attention Seekers is in the Light Topics section and not the place to talk about suicidal thoughts.

But people will post in the crisis forum even when not really considering suicide because they want maximum impact and attention for how they feel, so I don't know what the solution is. As ever it's down to other members and staff to try and see who is genuinely at risk and hope that people do seek the help they need.

Hi Inner Peace,

This is where I disagree with you I am afraid. I find it hard to believe that there are some people who post for attention seeking. I think that 99.9% of people who post in the crisis forum are not attention seeking but are actually honest about their feelings of being suicidal. This could be at various levels from intensive suicidal feelings with no intent (so a person says they feel suicidal but it does not mean they are attention seeking it just means they have no intentions to go thru with it), to feeling suicidal and having an intention, to having an intention and a plan and a date which indicates high risk. Its a matter of risk of suicide, not geniuness of the plea. We must stop using the word attention seeking because we are infact perpetuating the stigma about borderlines.

I don't know how the BPDworld site runs or even if the site owes a duty of care to those who post suicidal posts. I think the most important thing is that if someone is expressing suicidal ideation it is important to acertain whether that person is at high risk of suicide, ie is the risk imminent. This is the most important thing. If the answer is yes, then I don't know how staff or members on this forum could Act or notify someone. Perhaps refering them to a suicide prevention helpline with the numbers and urging them to call them as they are better equipted to deal with these situations. This is because there maybe genuinely suicidal people on the forum who may be seeking help on the forum but because this is the internet may not understand that help may not be available quick enough for them so they should be referred to an organisation that can get them help (eg the samaritans).

[icu_baby]

icu you are right many do give warnings before they suicide or make an attempt. My friend Jade for example's exact words were "come have dinner with me, its the last time you'll see me". I thought she was simply looking for attention as she had done this many times in the past. I was wrong. Two days later she died, alone. She was not discovered for 2 days in blistering heat.

I am not saying here not to take people seriously at all. Just it pains me to see some who could be at risk being ignored. It will only take the death of someone who is ignored in crisis point to have terrible implications for all of us.

Dearest Tripper,

I am so sorry to hear about your friend, I truly am. This is a tragic story but please don't think its your fault.

icu_baby

[Barebones]

i find this hard to answer, but here is what i think.

there is 3 types of true suicide people and i dont feel its a myth.

there is the planners and there is the spontanious one who dont seem to grasp the build up towards it. both of these keep quiet. there intentions is true in what they are doing, i find that in the end u dont have emotion,or guilt or blame and u have ur own sense of responsibilty in what ur doing. most know the ideal methods of suicide and use them.

the other is one that will give a person a chance to help them. ie giving advice,support,destraction. they will either take it on board or if the communication fails is that they go ahead and do what they was going to do.

the rest who so call try suicide is the one is doing it because of emotions, emotional blackmail, attention seeking,anger and im sure there is alot of other ones.

these ones either tell somone before hand or will tell just after to get a response and get what they feel they should get back. if not this then goes into a cycle, they will try again. saying all that. i dont feel this is suicide, its harming oneself and in end is that some have made terrible mistakes, and i class that as accidentle death.

for me to understand suicide and how i do is because ive have been there, near death. no emotions, no blame, no nothing. noone made me do it i took full responsiblity in what i did. my pdoc was annoyed at me, because i didnt tell anyone in what i was doing. from then ive been told to say. but i feel that goes against in what i wanted. but saying that i have somtimes spoke to a certain people and told them i could harm myself. but i dont say suicide. because it could be a fleeting feeling and so on. i sh in suicide methods, but im not suicidle. if worse came to it, it would be a accidental death.

icu, men are the majority in being true suicidle, one they dont talk about anything as u know and its all or nothing to them. they use no turning back methods. they keep quiet.

woman there is some who will do the same, but alot would normaly talk about it first before hand.

anyway this is all proberly shite. but i have learnt over the years and watched and listend to many people and also a friend commited suicide. i had to step back and respect her actions and that it was her responsibilty and it wasnt anyone elses. i had to deal with it.

anyway i rambled on enough. i just wanted my thoughts out.

[Paris]

I must have really missed the point of the crisis section then. I thought it was somewhere we could post if we have those dark thoughts about suicide/sh etc. I am obviously mistaken, sorry i wont post there again if im in crisis unless im going to actually go through with it. Im obviously one of these "attention seekers" that people dont like. Ill remember that if i feel bac again not to post.

[Todash]

OMG! I cant believe we are sitting here judging if people should or shouldnt be able to receive help and support. My god. WHO CARES WHERE THEY POST. They are hurting. So what if they post in crisis everyday. They still deserve the same level of love and compassion as the person who says nothing.

As far as the original topic of this thread....

"Why Would You Tell Someone If You Were Suicidal?"

Because I wanted to, thats why. No one knows why someone tells someone they are going to end their life. In reality, does it really matter? Does it mean they really dont need help because they must not be serious if they have told someone? Maybe those that didnt were to scared of being called attention seekers so instead of reaching out they die. WE ARE ALL ATTENTION SEEKERS! It human nature. We all want love and attention. Yes, some ways are much healthier, but some people dont know any other way. So, maybe the next time you see someone post in crisis for the upteenth time that its over, instead of rolling your eyes and telling them to call someone else, listen to them instead. Let them know that someone cares. Over and over if you have to.

The only way someone can be helped is if someone hold a hand out. Someone to show them there is a different way.

I personally am feeling very angry and hurt at this thread. There are so many people on here that have nowhere else for support. I wonder how many of them have read this and are now afraid to post.

We are all human. We all just want to be love.

[Barebones]

hmmm, as predictable any serious subject it allways ends up like this.

for me i wrote and i thought all through morning about this, this is what my understanding of it is. im not judging im putting my personal view on things. rightly or wrong its my opnion. im learning at the moment, about stuff and about my thinking process and other things which im applying to my daily life. but never mind that, me i still open my arms to some people who are in crisis in either way. och nevermid i think u get my drift.

[sundries]

plus, the forum doesnt allow suicide notes, so actually nobody who is immediately intending to kill themselves should be posting in crisis anyway

[sundries]

Anyway, can we please not turn my thread into a discussion on the use of the crisis section. We could discuss that in another thread. I was intersted in the reasons people tell someone they are suicidal. Perhaps people want to use their expereinces of people telling online that they are suicidal as examples, but really i meant i'in real life' as i think that is very different from discussing it online and has a different psychology. Please dont let my thread turn into a big argument that ends up with it being closed.

[Paris]

sundries how did you expect this not to turn into a discussion with a title like that?

[Todash]

BB - Thank you. I think the learning you are doing right now is terrific.

Sundries - from my own personal experience....

The first time I tried (at the time I didnt realize that was what I was doing) I didnt tell anyone. Why? Because I didnt know how to ask for help. I remember sitting in the study area physically feeling worse and worse but to scared to as for help. Not because of what people would think, but because I was belittled for asking for help when I was little. So I didnt. Luckily I made it through.

The second, I was hurting really bad. Horribly. i was sitting in my car seconds away when I saw my kids face in my mind. I couldnt at that point and called for help. If I hadnt seen my kids, I would have.

So, I dont know if that helps answer your question any. I really think there are to many reasons why people tell.

I just want also to tell everyone that if you are feeling that way, PLEASE PLEASE do tell someone.

[sundries]

loula to answer your question

1) because it didnt occur to me that people would include online posts as telling someone you are suicidal - perhaps for the reasons other people have given that there isnt really much anyone can do about it if its online. I think its totally different from telling someone irl so just didnt even think about it

2) because it didnt occur to me that people on here were too immature to discuss the kind of question that is quite pertinent to BPD, . It was posted in a section discussing things related to BPD where one might expect some more 'theoretical/academic' (for want of a better word), discussions, - though drawing on their own experiences, - rather than in a personal crisis support section.

3) because i dont think this forum is solely here for emotionally driven thinking. We are not totally emotional beings and as people who have experienced the illness we can still think about it from a more curiosity/intellectual viewpoint and that IS supportive as it supports our reflection on the illness, while drawing on other peoples experiences - and in doing so does perhaps indirectly benefit us emotionally too.

4) because in hindsight, i would still think that people could be courteous enough to put up another thread if they want to discuss something tangenital to the topic and tone of the thread.

[Paris]

So If i am getting this right you are suggesting people are immature and emotionally driven. That includes me and yeah i am and i can be. But I also can look at this illness in an academic way I assure you, just this topic has made me feeling pretty angry and rejected to be honest. Some thing that someone with bpd doesnt need ot be made to feel on a "support" site.

So yeah I am responding in an emotive and immature way but also questioning wtf I am doing on this site.

[Todash]

Ok, everyone Deep breath in...and blow out. Again, deep breath in and out.

I think we all agree that this is a very emotional topic. Maybe we all need to just step back for bit.

[Todash]

2) because it didnt occur to me that people on here were too immature to discuss the kind of question that is quite pertinent to BPD, . It was posted in a section discussing things related to BPD where one might expect some more 'theoretical/academic' (for want of a better word), discussions, - though drawing on their own experiences, - rather than in a personal crisis support section.

I really dont think it is so much to do with the topic itself, but rather the wording in the post. I have gone back and reread it several times. Each time it comes up more as accusatory then 'academic'. I understand that the intent was to get other peoples ideas on why they might tell someone they are going to kill themselves. but things like:

if you dont want to die then you can hardly be described as suicidal, in my opinion.

and

this is of course something ive considered because of the tendency of professionals to assume that if we tell someone we are

1) not suicidal

2) attention seeking

3) manipulating / threatening them

come across as accusatory to some people. Me for one. I understand that they are your opinion, and respect that. I am just giving you my opinion back. I think that is why this has become so emotionally charged.

Lets try to get back to listing reason why you might tell someone when you are suicidal.

[mazer34]

I told my GP and she said if I really meant it I would go and do it ? Im just attention seeking ! I told her I tried before and she turned round and said next time do it properly if you really mean it !! OMG and thats a GP for you !! :angry:

[Dreamer]

To answer the question...what would I tell someone that was suicidal or saying their gonna do it..."what ur going through now is pie compared to what ur gonna be going through in hell" Call me harsh...whatever...but I'm god fearing, and it's what has kept me from doing such a thing, and I would probably then go and look up the side effects from whatever pill(s) they may be thinking of taking and let them know what joy ride they are gonna be riding soon if it doesn't work.

Also just a note, I attempted it at 15, I was not god fearing then and coulda cared less about anything I was so depressed, but I didn't tell a soul.

[Marchmadness]

Wow -

Another loaded topic!

My own experiences with this have been I did not tell anyone. Nor did I leave any

notes, just wanted to get away from the pain that was within myself, and the pain

I felt I was causing others. My poor brother found me 2x, now I live with that guilt.

The last time I was at the point of another attempt, I did step up call my husband,

and was admitted to the hospital. I have made agreements with so many people

around me that if I get to that point please reach out and talk with them. So much

so, I have 3 numbers to reach my therapist at. In all honesty, would I reach out

for help, I can promise them yes I will, but inside not really sure. I hope I can, but

when a person is in that spot, (personal experience) you just want out of the pain,

and can not see any other options. Shortly after I joined this forum, I had a friend

who committed sui, she called my phone, but I was on another phone and did not

pick up her call. That night I received a call about what she had done. I was gone

with emotions, called my therapist, posted on here and it helped. Guess the point

I am trying to make is, talking does help. If you find yourself in that dark place,

reach out, it doesn't matter how many times you post, it just matters that you keep

fighting for your life! Things may seem at their lowest point, and talking can help

turn that around, and those feelings will pass.

Be safe all, and take care of each other - after all isn't that what we all want to be heard

and cared about.

Marchmadness

[Hopeless]

I would tell someone if i felt suicidal, and have done so before.

No way in hell I would tell my family or MH but friends yes

if they were your friends they would help, eather destract you or if things get really bad call an ambulance. If I had not told anyone, or got help I would not be here today reading this REALLY long topic.

Yes people say you are attention seeking sometimes, and sometimes maybe they are right. but not all the time. Im glad I reached for help and want all you buggers to do the same, cause everyone may get called attention seeking and stuff but only you know the truth and if you feel that bad you really need help. I believe no one actually wants to die, just for their pain to end. so fucken get help when you need it guys! and if anyone calls anyone attention seeking look out! this is a support forum not a pick on someone who feels like crap forum!

people need to relise when they are suicidal and when they want attention. thats why there is a attention seeking forum thingy. come on guys you do need to ask for help when you need it xxx

[icu_baby]

Everyone Please Try and See the Forrest From the Trees:

The reality is that some professionals do accuse borderlines of attention seeking and being manipulative and, in my opinion, this is a myth. Offcourse the tragedy is that this myth may actually prevent people from seeking help precisely because of the fact that they don't want to be seen as attention seeking, especially if they have been accused of attention seeking when they have reached for help.

One of the worst things you can do to someone with BPD (or indeed anyone) is to invalidate their feelings which they honestly and genuinely feel. I am actually quite shocked to hear that my fellow borderlines have given the response that it is attention seeking. To me attention seeking is when someone who is completely absent of suicidal feelings tells someone they are feeling suicidal. This is better described as deception. I truly believe that 99% of people (including borderlines) tell people they are suicidal because they are suicidal period! It doesn't matter whether it is just suicidal ideation, or with intention or a plan. It doesn't matter if it is fleeting or chronic. As someone said, this isn't attention seeking, its reaching out/crying for help/sharing your feelings.

It is almost as if we have been brainwashed or conditioned by mental health professionals who stigmatise us by attaching very pejorative associations that we are "attention-seeking" and "manipulative" into actually believing that we are "attention seeking" or "manipulative" which is actually a myth.

If this is the case, it makes me very sad.

As Sundries exercise has shown the majority of those in the bipolar did give reasons that they are manipulative and attention-seeking. Why is it that there were two very different responses among two groups who are essentially being asked exactly the same question. Could it be because they don't suffer the same stigma as we do, when they are suicidal its due to a chemical imbalance (very much like depression), when borderlines are suicidal its "attention-seeking" and "manipulative"?

And here we are turning on each other by saying that some BPD's do post to get attention. Do the majority of borderlines here then actually agree with the stigma that there is alot of attention seeking (in the way I have defined it in the above para)?

If we want to gain better access to mental health services and receive better treatment for our borderline condition then we really do need to band and work together to dispel these myths that non-borderlines (inlcuding mh professionals) hold which do nothing but create hurt and invalidation.

If you read the thread also under bpd titled "when is it enough" (this is not an advertisement btw) and read the story about Cindy Powell you will see that the way we are treated by the mh professionals because of how they see us (manipulative/attention seeking) does have serious, if not deadly, consquences.

As Sundries mentioned, I think its great that people can post about their specific personal problems on this site but its equally as important to have an "academic" discussion, or as I would prefer to say have discussions about the major issues confronting people with borderline personality disorder because these are the issues that do have far reaching affects (i.e. such issues affect all of us directly) and do have an impact on us emotionally. Thus, we ourselves need to be aware of the issues that affect us so that we are more empowered.

I think that this is one of the gaols that this website was set up to achieve

[wordsmithy]

suicidal thoughts, plans... just killing yourself is and has to be lonely, alone.

its the loneliness that makes it insufferable, i have to tell even in an obscured way.

[sundries]

Icubaby, thats exactly what i meant. When in my first post i listed how the professionals tend to see it, i didnt agree with thier view. i thought most of us on here disagreed with that view - andthe kind of responses i got on the bipoalr forum were the ones i also expected on here.

ive been really surprised by the responses.

Its made me think that maybe when professionals are saying that kind of thing about hte 'borderline' motivations they arent being pejorative or meaning it in a bad way, they are just stating what is reality for some people. I suppose that still leaves the problem of how they choose to respond - i dont think that havng an 'attention seeking' motivation

should be taken as a reason not to help. i think if people seek attention then they need it.

Its also made me wonder or whether not it really is the case that these are the motivations or the ones of us who think that way have been influenced by the explanations professionals give.