Still Not Getting Better

[walker]

well as my husband has just so succinctly pointed out

its YOU that got us in this position

ie with money

MY fault

MY choice

MY control

He is right - if it was a physical illness it would be real and I wouldnt be blamed

BUT THIS IS MY FAULT - there is simply NO denying it

Ross the wise - you are right, but I dont like it, the shame - horror filled shame of the person I am

[hummm_mabbe]

BUT THIS IS MY FAULT - there is simply NO denying it

Ross the wise - you are right, but I dont like it, the shame - horror filled shame of the person I am

Can you see how again, you have jumped back under the stone? All those words, and youve just told me about how bad your husband thinks you are with money. Its like no matter what I say, it just goes unheard and you find a new way to whip yourself. This is your cycle. You know that kind of statement will gain sympathy, because none of us here will agree its your fault. But that doesnt help you move on.

Its ok to be wrong. You can try to change for the better and not repeaet the mistake. Add to this the fact that you DO have emotional problems that most others dont have to deal with, and you have a very strong case for your defence. But that does not excuse you from the task of changing.

We are all shame filled people, and its only when we realise that and face it, face the big, ugly, terrifying but ultimately TOOTHLESS demon of shame, that we start to change.

Sometimes the world is a bit like a sleeping bag with a wasp in it. There are times when it feels just comfortable enough, but soon it doesnt matter how you lay, you keep getting stung, and thats a message telling you to open the sleeping bag and take a look at whats jabbing you. You didnt stick the wasp in there, but its only you that can get rid of the bloody thing. What you seem to be doing is pulling out the wasp and holding it, saying "hey look theres this damn wasp in my sleeping bag!". Someone offers you a jar or some fly spray, and you feel happy that they tried, and then you stick the wasp back in the sleeping bag and go "see? the little bugger is stinging me!". BAck they come with the fly spray and jars until they realise that you dont want a jar. You just like having people come over to you. Its sort of cute but it doesnt help you :(

[walker]

YES

I SEE

I SEE IT CLEARLY

AND I KNOW IT IS TRUE

IT FEELS SO HARD - THAT DYING ACTUALLY FEELS LIKE THE EASIER OPTION

that is the ulitmate battle

something that on paper sounds simple

and in reality feels life threatening

I am reading

I do understand

I still dont know if I can or if I will

[hummm_mabbe]

YES

I SEE

I SEE IT CLEARLY

AND I KNOW IT IS TRUE

IT FEELS SO HARD - THAT DYING ACTUALLY FEELS LIKE THE EASIER OPTION

that is the ulitmate battle

something that on paper sounds simple

and in reality feels life threatening

I am reading

I do understand

I still dont know if I can or if I will

So, instead of the capital letters, and the references to suicide, what is it that you actually NEED? What do you want to feel that you currently dont? Whats hiding beneath the desperation? You are understanding me intellectually, I see that, but what is it that is MISSING that stops you from FEELING what I am saying?

[walker]

So, instead of the capital letters, and the references to suicide, what is it that you actually NEED? What do you want to feel that you currently dont? Whats hiding beneath the desperation? You are understanding me intellectually, I see that, but what is it that is MISSING that stops you from FEELING what I am saying?

ok so perhaps not THAT clearly

I am not sure

i am turning it over and over and I am not sure

it could be anger, it could be trust

i am not good at doing the anger - except innappropriately

it scares me

[hummm_mabbe]

So, instead of the capital letters, and the references to suicide, what is it that you actually NEED? What do you want to feel that you currently dont? Whats hiding beneath the desperation? You are understanding me intellectually, I see that, but what is it that is MISSING that stops you from FEELING what I am saying?

ok so perhaps not THAT clearly

I am not sure

i am turning it over and over and I am not sure

it could be anger, it could be trust

i am not good at doing the anger - except innappropriately

it scares me

From what you said in your PM, I feel that what you are needing is very similar to what I have been needing. Many folks go into therapy and want to be given techniques and things that will take away all their problems. With many people this can work, if there is enough of a bse to work from. CBT and so on can act as a good way to redirect a person back to happier ways.

But for some people, there is more missing. From your PM, I feel like what is missing for you is unconditional acceptance of who you are, the feeling of being truly heard - all your fears and pains, and also you need someone who feels 'safe' and secure. Someone that you respect and whose direction you trust will elad to a good outcome. When I say that some people have a lot missing, this is because it was something vital that did not come at the time it was needed. The sense of feeling accepted, loved and properly held and guided are all charcteristics of a good nurturer - a skilled parent who acts like a rudder and saftey net, whilst providing warmth and love to help you ride the bumps and bruises, and to make you feel loved when perhaps your efforts in the world leave you feeling UNloved.

This is what psychologists call the 'secure base' - but if you have never had it, you will not be able to know its missing. There is no way I can make you feel held, safe and secure over the internet. You cannot see my face, you cannot know what i feel inside, and it will be hard to totally trust me. That is why proper therapy happens face to face.

Coing back to therapy then - we may not realise it, but we bring all those holes with us into the therapy room. At our core we need unconditional acceptance, to feel warmly regarded, and we need to feel that the therapist has properly heard us, understands us implicitly and then gives the RIGHT advice and does the right things that we need. But we might not even know thats what we need - we just feel somethings 'off' and not know what that is. If we feel unheard, we may get angry or upset without knowing why. If we are ashamed of anger we will never express that feeling - a double layer of 'stuckness'.

Your therapist needs to be a person who you can let do all these things, but you must feel that he listens, understands you, genuinely cares and knows as much as he possibly can to help you.

If you do not belive that people are capable of helping you, because your parents never could, you may not trust that anyone can help, ever. You may feel you must do it all alone because of this. The way out is to let him in.

If you feel he does not understand you, then you must tell him that and then explore what he does to make you feel that way. If you feel he does not make you feel heard, and register your feelings and emotions, discuss that with him and understand why that is. It may be that he jumps too quickly to 'solution' and does not spend enough time in listening. If you have been chornically invalidated and not had expression of your emotions for your whole life, then feeling unheard will make you feel VERY angry.

If you do not feel that he has the answers or lacks skill ro expertise, ask yourself whether that is your innate distrist that anyone can really help you, or do you genuinely feel that he lacks knowledge?

I know it must be hugely upsetting and frustraing reading this online. Your heart needs all these things but it has never been shown fully what they are or how you are meant to get them. You can only do your best to grasp at things that feel similar, but they are not the nutrition you really need. I am the same - I realised that I didnt trust Emma, I couldnt see when she was being caring, I blocked her out. Because I felt she didnt understand me, I didnt trust she would know the right things to help me. I got angrier and angrier.

This is yet another invisible layer that keeps us stuck - not even being able to see what was missing. Our hearts tell us its missing, but we have no words or experience to tell us what that is. Thats is why therapy is as much about learning as anything else - and the only way to learn is to momentarily forget about what we think we already know - thats what i mean when I talk about coming out from under the stone, or throwing a spanner in the machine. Switching off the "I already know this" machine and tasting the alternatives.

I feel you will answer that you do not know HOW to do this. What I have written above IS the how. Talking to James about those needs you feel he isnt filling, how he makes you feel when he does certain things. Take the list of needs I have written up there and ask yourself how it is that you feel you are not geting them, and the times that sensations of anger come up for you when they are not met. Your process will be unique to you, and that is why i cannot give you anymore precise instructions than that. This is the exploration that I have been talking about.

At the same time, dealing with the continued pain that comes with this exploration is what mindfulness will help with. I am giving you tools and suggestions - I cannot give you the emotional parts in an internet forum, I can only suggest how you might learn to find that within the therapy relationship.

[hummm_mabbe]

Perhaps most importantly - you need to know that you can express anger in front of JAmes and that he will be able to soothe his own feelings enough to care about yours. This is a key failing of parents of people with PD's - they are unable or unwilling to let a child be angry (or other "difficult" emotions) because it makes THEM feel bad. Because of this, the child is not held, or soothed. It may be told to stop being a cry baby, or otherwise shamed for being too sentivie or out of control. The child is expceted to control its own emotions, even though a child NEEDS TO LEARN THIS BY FIRST HAVING IT DONE TO THEM BY A PARENT. A child cannot 'just figure it out'. They do not have a 'lack of moral fibre' if they cannot. It must be PUT THERE by parents, and if they dont do it, that is their failing. But rather than face that, many parents make the cild feel it is their fault. They shame them, scold them. The child grows up thinking her emotions are unacceptable. She buries them. If this is the case, transference will mean that you expect the same things from James - perhaps unjustifiably.

But they are part of humainity. Anger is part of being human. Feeling rage is part of being human. Yes, there are great ways of expressing anger, and some not so great ways. But for people that were never taught how to SOOTHE their own pain and that anger was banned, they CANNOT LEARN a healthy way because its like trying to hold back a dam with a piece of paper. The first time we express it, we may do it BADLY. Thats why therapy provides a safe environment.

If you cannot say this stuff to James, EMAIL HIM. Put those feelings into words on a page. I do this with emma and it has been such a help, we have been able to broach exteremely difficult problems this way. But it took the first couple of times of emma not getting defensove, of being aware of her own schemas and transference, in order for me to belive that it was safe. Im still not 100% there, but I am better than I was.

Without expressing anger there can be no relationship - it is a false intimacy.

If his positive words bounce off, then ok. Yiu are not in a place to recieve them. Positive eords are not what help people over PD's - all the stuff above (as a start) is. As you begin to feel warmer and cared for, then later +ve words may go in. If you cannot accept James words now, then thats ok. Tell him you know he is being nice, but it isnt what you need right now. You may feel that you want him to see all the 'bad' bits of you first, and to see that even despite these bad bits, he still accepts you. That is what I mean by uncondtional regard. If he jumps straight to trying to change you, or challenge irrational thoughts, the message you get is that your 'bad' parts are unacceptable. As they are such a big part of you, this feels like a rejection of your whole.

James needs to know that.

[walker]

At the moment

what he sees - is tears - and hurt - lots of confusion - and avoidance

but I need him to see and accept that, as they wouldnt

emailing certainly helps

I can sound off

But I have only just been able to tell him one or two things that have upset me - and I seem ultra sensitive to his responses, especially if they are even remotely defnsive - they through me into panic -run - cry

I havent dared to lose my temper

I have a real fear of anger, never express it properly, but in small, very loud, irritable outbursts, and never to the right people, I guess.

It frightens me - as soon as I hear raised voices, or pick up on anything I read here - I panic and want to run and hide

Then I say sorry, like it is all my fault

I will go through all this - and speak to James

[hummm_mabbe]

At the moment

what he sees - is tears - and hurt - lots of confusion - and avoidance

but I need him to see and accept that, as they wouldnt

emailing certainly helps

I can sound off

But I have only just been able to tell him one or two things that have upset me - and I seem ultra sensitive to his responses, especially if they are even remotely defnsive - they through me into panic -run - cry

I havent dared to lose my temper

I have a real fear of anger, never express it properly, but in small, very loud, irritable outbursts, and never to the right people, I guess.

It frightens me - as soon as I hear raised voices, or pick up on anything I read here - I panic and want to run and hide

Then I say sorry, like it is all my fault

I will go through all this - and speak to James

I think that you are heading in the right direction. Certainly its a bumpy road, and you are having to pull on every ounce of courage that you have got in there. I know it wont mean anything to you, but I think that is admirable. I see that as an important quality and one worthy of respect. It may feel terrifying and that this makes you weak - but courage is never about always feeling strong - courage is about feeling terrified and acting nonetheless.

It will be a while before you no longer want to run - that response is ingrained into you. Not to belittle it - but its like smoking. You cannot give up the fags an expect to not feel cravings - and all your emotions are the same. Anger and fear are tied together, like a cigarette and relief for someone who smokes. Gradually, as James shows its ok to be angry, no matter how it comes out, you will feel that inner tsunami become mroe of a wave, and then a ripple. The potential for its explosive power will feel less and less as you finally are shown that ITS OK FOR YOU TO BE ANGRY.

At first it may come out all wrong. ITS OK TO SCREW UP. That is why a therapy relationship is so different to ones in the outside world - its unconditionality and acceptance of extreme emotions is the model of how you should have been treated when you were very little, and were LEARNING how to deal with anger.

You were never given that oppostinity. The rage you feel inside is the same anger that needed to find expression when you were tiny, and as you know the anger of a child cannot always be restrained. It is raw, primal, powerful. Its only through interaction with healthy adults and patient carers that she learns how to express her anger, and because of knowing it will be ok and be responded to well, it never reaches the inner peaks of rage and turbulence that she first felt when she was a toddler.

Therapy is your chance to live out that vital stage of development you were denied. Freaky? Yes - but I think, quite wonderful :)

[walker]

NO MORE

I CANT DO THIS

[hummm_mabbe]

NO MORE

I CANT DO THIS

OOhhh okies ... I hear you. Something went too far? Are you able to say what that was? Was I being too nice, or was it that you felt you were being forced down a path you couldnt go? Or perhaps you sensed that I was pulling away - about to sign off for today? Did something punish you for saying too much? Did you feel too over-exposed? Was it because I said things were going well, but you dont yet feel like youve been properly heard, and that you dont feel they are going well?

What was the sensation that you felt - was it being suffocated, anger, fear, or shame?

I feel like youve jumped back under the stone, but had the time to look up Edward Munch "The Scream" ... so what is it that you are needing now? What are you asking for by posting that? Have I tried to make you seem healthier, and things better than they really are?

[walker]

Not Asking

Showing

Icould not draw it so well

overload i think

+ fear

+ the prospect of no james

I can see the stone

I know

But I am so frightened

I feel like

like i cant do this

like I am being crushed by the pressures of expectation

Backed into a corner

[hummm_mabbe]

Not Asking

Showing

Icould not draw it so well

overload i think

+ fear

+ the prospect of no james

I can see the stone

I know

But I am so frightened

I feel like

like i cant do this

like I am being crushed by the pressures of expectation

Backed into a corner

Getting better is not arace, and I for one dont have expectations of you. I know from my own recovery that getting better has its own timetable. All the info you have got today will have to percolate down, It might not even mean anything to you for a couple of months. I am not hoping to cure you before I log off - just to get you to ask those questions. You dont have to leave James because now you have other things to explore with him.

I cant help but feel that I prodded one of your old buttons - the need for people to see that you are borken, awful, terible, beyond and unworthy of help. I feel like by saying that nice stuff at the end, I pressed that button and made you need to backpedal and show me how hopeless you are, by jumping back under the stone and going back to disaster land.

I have no expectation, you dont even need to do what I say or belive me. I am just offering what I have found to help me in the hope that it will make sense in the background of your own life. You can ket that happen at whatever pace you want, the pace that makes sense to you. Well, that is as far as Im concerned - other peoples timetables need to be negotiated and I cannot affect them.

But I dont think theres a great deal more anyone can do if you jump back under the stone. Like said, it makes me feel like I have just totally wasted my time. I know you are hurting and afraid, but the stone doesnt help you It never has, its just what pushes people away. You dont need to convince me that you are a mess before I will listen to you or give you the space you need. That is what you learned from your parents - its only once you go into hysterics that they back off and give you space, and maybe listen to you.

It doesnt work anymore now youre an adult - its the cycle that is keeping you stuck. You dont need the stone anymore.

[walker]

Like said, it makes me feel like I have just totally wasted my time.

NO

just too much

too quick

i think

my head is stuffed and racing

sorry

[hummm_mabbe]

Like said, it makes me feel like I have just totally wasted my time.

NO

just too much

too quick

i think

my head is stuffed and racing

sorry

Okies, no worries. I will leave the ol brainie to percolate :)

[D.Ash]

Hey Hunnybee -

You're backed into a corner? Guess what? I'm in that corner with you...

From here, the retreat, we have a chance to see what's around us. But it's scary to open our eyes as to what the possibilities might be...

Scary to admit that we can shape and mould those possibilities... Much easier to fall into old patterns, give up on the idea of hope. I feel you there... I do.

You're frightened, it's sitting on your shoulder - whispering in your ear...

But on the other shoulder, that's where I'm sitting... I will not give up on you. You've made so much progress... Keep it coming.

Don't give up, keep moving forwards, hun. Even if it doesn't feel like you're moving forwards... you are. Trust me. I'm in your corner. I can see you are.

Sorry... I missed you today, babes. Bin battling some of my own demons. I wish I had the answers...

But I am here for you... Even when I'm not. I'm sitting on your shoulder.

You can cuss me all you want on the following... but...

Keep Hope Alive! I won't let you forget that.

Loadsa love from your BPD Bruv!

-Dxxxxxxxxxxx

[walker]

I have tried so so hard today

Ross has worked bloody overtime and deserves a gold award

but I just cant take any more

my head is breaking open

and I want out

and i only see one path the old path the same damn path

.........................

I want to be heard

I want to be held

I want to be loved

and I know it is attention seeking

and it makes me feel bad

but I am desperate

and empty

I am old enough to know better,

intelligent enough to make choices

but I hurt and the child is hurting too

and I am just not ready to let her go

[D.Ash]

There is nothing wrong with wanting to be loved, to be heard, to be held. To be understood.

These are normal traits, sweetie.

I am no proffessional (far from it given my actions and opinions over the past few days...) but that hurting child... That is why I understand you so... I have that hurting child in me as well.

And I am not ready to let him go... I am working to understand him, to nurture him, to allow him to flourish forth into adulthood...

This is how I get thru the day... Just an opinion, hun. I'm aware that my brand of positivity is not often welcome on these boards.

I just don't want you to hurt, I think you deserve to be held, to be heard, to be loved. I think you deserve to be understood. And in order to be understood, us BPD sufferers must first learn to understand ourselves.

I'm sorry you've had such a rough one, Walker. But you are doing so well... every post brings forth new realisation and revelation.

Thinking of you, Your BPD Bro -Dx

[walker]

Hand on the handle

Cannot push it down

waiting to step

feet frozen

shoulders bent

face hidden

mind blazing

[walker]

perhaps its meds

maybe that is the only way I will move

I dont think I can do this

It has been working through me all day and I just dont know

[hummm_mabbe]

perhaps its meds

maybe that is the only way I will move

I dont think I can do this

It has been working through me all day and I just dont know

yuppely

meds might give you that boost in the right direction :)

[hummm_mabbe]

perhaps its meds

maybe that is the only way I will move

I dont think I can do this

It has been working through me all day and I just dont know

yuppely

meds might give you that boost in the right direction

Which ones do you fancy?

Yumm yumm munch munch oooo tastes like chicken

[walker]

cant do this, so sorry

[D.Ash]

:bigarmhug[1]:

Stay strong, Sis

-Dx

[Rael]

many apologies if this comes off wrong, it is not meant to.

maybe you are looking so hard for the way out that you make yourself blind to it. that's not a dig, we all do it and even when i thought i found the way out it took me so long to have the strength to try to open the door. i always felt like i was in the middle of a labyrinth, so many false leads, deceiving hopes. Even when you think you have found the right door, you start to open it and it turns out to be wrong. But the flash of hope that inspires us to try the door in the first place can carry us on to find the next, hopefully right, door. There is a way out. you just have to keep strength long enough to find it.

hope that made sense

hugs

xxx