Wobbles Posted October 24, 2009 Report Share Posted October 24, 2009 Hi Wobbles Not to pry, but I am kinna fascinated by what u might be feeling at the mo, because of how current it all is. Can you identify what it is you are hearing, feeling, seeing, or what you feel it is connected to? Who or what is making you feel disgusting? This is me kinna hoping that your insight will open a door for me too .... Feeling: Very angry, very strong self hatred, embarrassment, feeling the need to apologise to everyone i saw tonight, the need to withdraw like a puppy who's had his nose rubbed into the carpet he's just pissed on. SHAME! Thoughts: You stupid fucking idiot, what the hell were you thinking, you're so stupid, you don't deserve to feel happy, how dare you forget about your problems, how dare you feel a bit of happiness, HOW DARE YOU FORGET ABOUT ME, you selfish, pathetic, weak, unlovable little bitch, HOW DARE YOU!! I don't get to feel happiness, i never did because of you, your father killed himself because of you, he's not happy, he's fucking dead, so why should you get to feel happy, i'm miserable because of you, why should you get to be happy. DON'T EVER FORGET YOU'RE NOT WORTHY, you let your guard down, they will hurt you and it's all your own fault you stupid girl, you deserve to be miserable, just like me. Connected to: An emotionally abusive, manipulative, selfish, nasty mother who made it clear i was not worthy of happiness. Connected to my fathers suicide, i remember clearly chastising myself after he died, whenever i smiled, let alone laughed, he didn't feel happy, he was dead, why should i get to be happy. Why should i get to forget for 5 minutes. I'm not allowed to forget. I'm not allowed to be happy, not allowed to feel good, have fun or enjoy life. I'm selfish. I left my husband at home with my son instead of being there doing my duty of looking after them. I'm ashamed. I made a fool of myself, i laughed, i talked, i engaged with people, i embarrassed myself just by doing those things, i need to apologise to everyone and never speak to them again, next time i see them i'll be contrite, quiet, sorrowful, ashamed, apologetic, embarrassed, awkward and uncomfortable. And you know what, i didn't behave any other way other than normal, like a normal happy person who was enjoying themselves with a bunch of friendly, like minded people. Fuck! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hummm_mabbe Posted October 24, 2009 Author Report Share Posted October 24, 2009 Walker You mentioned before about double bind communication in your family walker - is it possible that your mum said "try your best, thats good enough", but her actual reaction to things said the opposite? But if you pointed it out, you would be rude, ungrateful etc? I am realising there was a ton of this kind of communication in my family. Its encouraging to see that there is an angry walker in there too. You and I are not so different - its only the particular face which has the most strength that differs, but we still have the same ones. For me its the angry, overcompensatey face which is strongest, and I need to get more in touch with the Little quiet and bad face. You are very in touch with the LB&QW face, and maybe need to get more in touch with the angry part AS WELL - which is exactly what you are doing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wobbles Posted October 24, 2009 Report Share Posted October 24, 2009 And i feel guilty and ashamed because i spent time with a man who i have come to like and enjoy the company of. I'm not doing anything wrong, but i feel guilty, like i'm cheating on my husband, i need to hide away, hide my friendship with this man because i'm not trusted, and i don't deserve to be trusted. Sad because i want to feel like i'm EVERYTHING to this man, but know that is not possible, or practical or realistic and is just my childish need to be wanted, loved, adored, worshipped. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wobbles Posted October 24, 2009 Report Share Posted October 24, 2009 Last one for tonight. Fighting those feelings and thoughts is making me even angrier and anxious, so for right now, i'm giving up the fight, accepting that for right this minute those thoughts and feelings are absolute truth because it feels fucking good. I shall go to bed, cry myself to sleep cuddling my son in the dark, and tomorrow i'll wake up depressed because i know they're right. When i'm not so tired, i'll re-join the battle and fight them until MY truth is louder. xx Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
walker Posted October 24, 2009 Report Share Posted October 24, 2009 i think i felt that - try your best it doesnt matter where u come = it doesnt matter, whatever you do doesnt really matter (((((((((((WOBBLES)))))))))) my life has been v different - but i identify with those thoughts very well Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hummm_mabbe Posted October 24, 2009 Author Report Share Posted October 24, 2009 Hi Wobbles Im feeling really quite overwhelmed by that just by reading it, its no wonder you are feeling shitty right now too. I wont make suggestions on how you can face all that, cuz Im sure you are working on it in therapy and stuff and really what with all my own revelations lately, Im not sure I would truthfully know where to start... just to say that sounds like the most incredible burden to be carrying. It made me wonder if there might be some small part of feeling guilty over being happy for me too, whilst knowing what a "terrible life" my mother was having, something she did frequently say ... I dont know, I will have to think on that. My impulse is that it has more to do with that "if youre happy now then your pain cant ever have been real" thing. To me what you are dealing with sounds like a massive weight holding you down. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hummm_mabbe Posted October 24, 2009 Author Report Share Posted October 24, 2009 Last one for tonight. Fighting those feelings and thoughts is making me even angrier and anxious, so for right now, i'm giving up the fight, accepting that for right this minute those thoughts and feelings are absolute truth because it feels fucking good. I shall go to bed, cry myself to sleep cuddling my son in the dark, and tomorrow i'll wake up depressed because i know they're right. When i'm not so tired, i'll re-join the battle and fight them until MY truth is louder. xx Yus thats the part Im realising too Im hoping somehow we can both find that balance **oils little emotions see-saw** **wonders if they call a see-saw a see-saw in Oz ... cuz the americans call it a teeter-totter ...*** Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Villan Posted October 24, 2009 Report Share Posted October 24, 2009 Mine was the other way round. instead of being praised for getting an A i would be barated for getting a B. 'work harder, why are you slacking...' LOl can relate to that side of the coin too, ruthie belive me! IF I got the A, I would get the priase. If I got the B, same situ as you. i was different... when my o level results came through, my parents already had the "well done" pressie all ready for me irrespective of my results. having thought about this now, maybe this is why i didnt give a stuff bout my a levels... (predicted ABB, got BBC) maybe subconsciously i thought, why bother, they will praise me whatever... hmmmmmmmm never made the connection til now... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hummm_mabbe Posted October 24, 2009 Author Report Share Posted October 24, 2009 Thing is, thats the way it should be Ninj Tis only because our culture views optimum achievement as the pinnacle of happiness that we feel somehow that perfection SHOULD be a goal. If you look into the backgrounds of some of the worlds most powerful and rich people, you will find this same dynamic - its the same one that works so powerfully, albeit in a vastly concentrated form, at the core of narcissism. This is one theory for why some eastern countires arent as materially wealthy as the west - because it is observed that the striving for greatness and progress is not so great in countries that pride themselves on compassion and acceptance. With us, we somehow have a sense deep inside that we should be wealthy and achieve, impanted there by advertising messages and endless exposure to "The Apprentice". If only we were like Alan Sugar! Thats why we have all been such good consumers for such a long time .... Its intersting that in the east, the optimum achievement is enlightenment - a state so often associated with ascetism. Anyway I digress. I am kinna jealous that you had all them pressies. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Villan Posted October 24, 2009 Report Share Posted October 24, 2009 Thing is, thats the way it should be Ninj Anyway I digress. I am kinna jealous that you had all them pressies. but surely that means that i didnt consider myself highly enough to want to achieve for me... and round and round we go.... or too much overthinky now... pressie was a neat radio casette recorder with 2 cassette decks for dubbing... sounds naff now, but remember that i am old and this was 1986... :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hummm_mabbe Posted October 24, 2009 Author Report Share Posted October 24, 2009 Chips Heres the thinky-a-bout paradox breaker. Sorry if this sounds dumb or anal-headed, its just cos ive been reading about zen and stuff. This is just me having a thinkie out loud, not me telling you what to think .. hope it doesnt come across like that .... mabbe im writing this just as much for myself as anyone ... If you do not view achievement as something important, or a gift, or something you should be rewarded with, it cannot be something you do or do not consider yourself highly enough for. Instead of being stuck between the two poles of the paradox - "If I achieve then I am worthy (but deny the reality of myself)" AND "If I dont achieve then I obviously did not value myself enough", you see that there is no need to enter the paradox in the first place. There is a 'third way' - thats what the buddhists are always on about - Zen is all about breaking paradoxes. But for us, achievement and wealth are just part of the backdrop of our culture - its is a virtually unchallenged cultural given, so taken for granted as not to be noticed or thought about. I dunno, mabbe its a moot point because cutlrually, we DO value achievement and wealth, and are conditioned to right from the start. Not to say that there is no point to it, or no value in desiring it - just kinna asking the question. It seems that either a person never has enough money, or is afraid of losing the money he does have, or is ashamed of the money he has ... perhaps money and achievement, not whether or not you have them / grant yourself them, is the problem. Its the keystone of the achievement paradox. Again its academic, because it IS just a thing here that we want money, and things, and that we see the path to that as doing well at college and then getting a great job. I realise that I have been seeing therapy (and especially self acceptance) as a vehicle to repairing me, so that I can go out and achieve (ironically, reinforcing my LACK of self acceptance because it is a demand for perfection, at least in me). Again, being stuck between the pillars of the paradox. I do see your point though - that maybe you didnt value yourself enough to try. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Villan Posted October 24, 2009 Report Share Posted October 24, 2009 yeah i get all that.... well put... i think reading that has clarified summat for me i was in HK, i had a ex-pat mega bucks job which i grew to hate and hate hk too so i quit, walked away from power job and achievement and shit loads of money swapped that instead in uk for 9-5 no pressure lowly admin job... BUT I WAS HAPPIER... and i dont have a big salary, but enough to live and buy stuff i want and other people's reaction to that oooooo you have a degree in engineering and you work in admin in the motor trade on shit money... what a waste took a LONG time for my family to change that view of me too... NOW i understand the ethos behind it... THANKYOU... xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hummm_mabbe Posted October 24, 2009 Author Report Share Posted October 24, 2009 Chips In that, you are LIGHT YEARS ahead of me, because although I can put some waffle around it, its stil not a reality for me! My last job was that high achievement jobbie, and I havent worked since then. A large part of me still wants me to go on to be the discoverer of warp drive, or the man to make fusion work, or bla bla bla .... and it gets annoyed when told it wont be! Lol ( ) But then thats what I was told right from the time I could talk, so it makes sense it would be so powerful for me. For me perhaps a mid-step of breaking the paradox is seeing "if I achieve, I achieve" rather than "If I achieve, I am worthy". I know there are also issues of being afraid of being poor, because that was always a very outspoken worry of mums - that she would "end up being a bag lady .. if only she had met her millionaire (that she was resentful life hadnt supplied)". So part of me HAS to be rich, simply so that I dont have to be scared of being poor. Lol. You are a living proof - that power and money do not go hand in hand with happiness - only our perception of it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Villan Posted October 24, 2009 Report Share Posted October 24, 2009 ooooo see this was something i thought i failed at cos i didnt like the high power money job and i couldnt handle the stress... i thought i had failed... you have just shown me a different side of that... validated my right to happiness if you like... oooo laptop about to die (nowhere to plug in here) damit.... prolly taken up enough of "therapist ross's" time and hijacked the thread enough... but THANK YOU THANK YOU for showing me the other side of the coin... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hummm_mabbe Posted October 24, 2009 Author Report Share Posted October 24, 2009 Oo glad that happened ninj Back to threadyness .... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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