hummm_mabbe Posted January 27, 2010 Report Share Posted January 27, 2010 Thank you im thinking maybe for now i should forget why i have BPD and try and deal with it and see what i can do to help myself i have to say im pretty pissed off i have not been put on any meds seeing as at the moment i am more or less at my worst cutting wrists when i cant deal with stuff screaming crying high , low etc and i cant seem to find a middle ground with me i feel like i need to be leveled but not sure how to do this on my own. Thank you again. Emma Hi Emma I agree that taking a pro-active attitude would be really good There are many good therapies out there, did you mention a few pages back they are offerin you DBT? That would be a great one to to go for. You may find that the DBT touches on the past a little, and it will certainly touch on your emotions and so on, so you may find that the "why" crosses over with the "dealing with it" somewhat, as what put it there is so often part of the solution. I would just wait and see what the therapy brings for you - it will defo help with self harm and so on. Keep chatting here about feelings and stuff, plenty of help to go round and lots of people who know what its like to be in the same position. Ross Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
emylo Posted January 27, 2010 Author Report Share Posted January 27, 2010 Yes i have been offered DBT but the waiting list is long and it be awhile cause im moving soon so have to wait intil im in my new area before starting but for me im not sure therepy is right for me now this year i will be having my 3rd major operation which will be about my 18th operatipon in the last 3 yrs. And i spend alot of time in hospital in the south or up in London, i do not have the time or energy for therepy right now and for some reason i wont to reject it and tell people were to shove it . I guess i wont a magic pill that will make it all better. Emma Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
roxy222 Posted January 27, 2010 Report Share Posted January 27, 2010 Hi Emma Very appropriate and common question. Im sure others will offer more detailed replies, but a quick overview: 1) Invalidating home / childhood: Feelings are dismissed, belittled, or treated as 'bad', especially anger. The childs emotional experience is denied or their problems blamed on them / attributed to some core fialing in their being. Eg "Theres nothing to be upset about, youre just oversenstive"; "He didnt do anything wrong, you are remembering it wrong / its your fault it happened"; "If you just did (this very simple thing which will not work) then you will be ok". Better and longer examples of invalidation can be found HERE. Invalidation is the common element in most BPD sufferers. In some, the ability to "make the pain real" by some physical act can lead to self injury, though you will find many reasons why people self injure. 2) Some BPD sufferers experiecned sexual, physical and further emotional abuse to (1). The inabaility of the child to comprehend or recover from the abuse, which may be ongoing, leads to the more severe symptoms developing. Not all sufferers have experienced sexua or physical abuse however, and the emotional component - especially invalidation - tends to be the common thread. As a result of invalidation or denial, the person may not even believe that what they experienced was abuse. 3) Abandonment - either physical or emotional - by a main carer, which leads to the inabilty to tolerate being alone or being left. May be made worse by (1) because the person finds it difficult to define or understand their experience without external commentary as they have no strong conviction that what they feel is right, only that its overwhelming. 4) History of revictimisation - the person, due to the patterns of the past, tends to repeat similar relationship patterns to the above, leading to frequent re-experiencing of pain and crises. 5) Theoretical inborn 'labile' temperament. This is not the same as 'being born too sensitive' - what it means is that the person has an inbuilt tendency to rapid responses and changes in mood. In a healthy person that had not been invalidated or abused, this would just lead to someone who was emotionally impulsive, but not necessarily in the same way as a BPD suffererer. As I Say this is more theoretical and comes from observations of baby's apparent difference in temperament right from birth. At which point attachment issues take over Im not sure (see Bowlbys Attachment Theory for more info). Some psychoatrists might tell you its genetic, or the result of a faulty amygdala or orbito-frontal cortex in your brain that you can see on an MRI scan. However this is more theory and selctive interpretation of data that might have another meaning or cause. No gene has been found, and its just as possible that the physical difference in the brain is as a result of the psychological problem, not vice versa. Endless studies have shown how psychotherapy and thought can change material brain function. Many people who accept the "broken machine" explanation of mental illness may find themselves stuck because they may belive they can never change - however many psychotherapies now exist to treat BPD. I hope you are going to be offered one! Hope this was ok. Ross the truama pages have heaps of research to show that the changes in brain structure are related to abuse historys, not any specific mh problem. which would mean that any mh issue related to these brain structural changes is a result of abuse, not that the brain changes are a cause of the mh problem. i love the truama pages info, partly cause it includes so many insightful experts, but also partly just because they show all the info related, not just conclusions drawn are a b and c, but exactly the details of the research etc. often there are articles that say yadda yadda prooves blah blah blah, but when you look at the research involved it doesnt at all, eactly like is explained in the gene illusion, however truama pages, and the likes of jennifer freyd and jim hoppers online research articles tell you exactly the people researched what the results are what the varialbles are and what implications this has. its important to remember that attachment style is entirely dependant on the mothers attitude towards the child, regardless of temprement at birth the childs attachment is allways what the experts predict beforehand based on the mothers attitude, this has been conclusively shown in all studies on the subject (oliver james quotes these studies). I guess in some circumstances there are factors that can effect this though, like if the m dies in child birth, and the child is cared for by many different carers before adopted. theres also other factors that can improove a childs attachment pattern even if the mothers attitude is not a responsive one, a healthy experience of attachment with any adult will meet some of a childs attachments needs. i think datas point about ages makes alot of sence really, the initiall attachment developes within the first three yrs and it is within this time that a childs sence of self developes, if their attachment needs are met they will experience themselves as capable (because they are able to get their needs met by crying out and having the m recognise and respond), they will experience the world as essentialy safe and secure, and they will experience the m as open and willing to communicate and therefore develope a sence of connection to others. this is a vital time and if this gets disrupted then that can be v detrimental. there are many ways in which this can be disrupted and not be seen directly as abuse, but effectively this disruption means the childs needs are left unmet, which is terrifying for the child. regardless of why these needs are unmet it is ultmately the parents responsiblity as they are the adult, a child needs v little to meet these needs, just to be responded to, and after all people have brought up children in war zones and still managed to value the importance of responding to their child. it is every childs right to have this care, and when this is not given freely it is never that childs fault. 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hummm_mabbe Posted January 27, 2010 Report Share Posted January 27, 2010 Thanks Roxy You always fill things in better Must read up on me attachment stuff << an attached emoticon Ross Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
roxy222 Posted January 27, 2010 Report Share Posted January 27, 2010 the continum conncept is a good start, its really makes the understanding of a childs point of view click and makes everything else alot easier to understand. birth without violence also helps with this, although sounding like an odd choice, and is free online (by fredrick leybohower i think, the link can be found by googling). alice millers stuff makes alot of connections in light of understanding about attachment, it regosters at a much deeper level once i understood attachment. and oliver james they fuck you up is a nice and simple coloqial explaination, kinda goofy in parts but it is based on wider research than any other book of its kind. and truama pages attachment stuff is ofcourse incredible (especially the effects of early relational truama on right brain developement, affect regulation and infant mental health, by allan n shore). the bolwby centre website is v interesting read in light of theaputic approaches that now take attachment into account. and tag-net (i think...) is a super website about how attachment needs can get twisted against a child in extreme abuse, which has v important implications for theraputic approaches. oh yeah and bruce perry im sure has some stuff about attachment and truama and nuerobiological changes also, his stuff is allways incredible and easy to understand also. and one of jennifer fryeds studies found dissociative responses are higher in those who have experienced emotional abuse (as opposed to s/a or p/a) and judith herman puts bpd on the dissociative response continum Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hummm_mabbe Posted January 27, 2010 Report Share Posted January 27, 2010 Thx roxy, am gonna look 'em up Ross Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hummm_mabbe Posted January 27, 2010 Report Share Posted January 27, 2010 Yes i have been offered DBT but the waiting list is long and it be awhile cause im moving soon so have to wait intil im in my new area before starting but for me im not sure therepy is right for me now this year i will be having my 3rd major operation which will be about my 18th operatipon in the last 3 yrs. And i spend alot of time in hospital in the south or up in London, i do not have the time or energy for therepy right now and for some reason i wont to reject it and tell people were to shove it . I guess i wont a magic pill that will make it all better. Emma Hi Emma Thats an understandable way to feel about therapy, I know a lot of folks that have those same feelings. Can you say why you feel so angry about it? Do you feel like it would be pointless, or they wouldnt understand you, or that it would bring up stressful things? Or maybe still reeling from the idea of actually having BPD and therapy weould be like a confirmation you are 'sick'? Or is it maybe something else? Its possible that having a therapist might even give you the needed emotional support to help you get through the operations, but I can understand that if it all seems like its going to be enormously demanding you might not want to. There certainly are meds that may take the edge off anxiety or depression, and if you have any symptoms such as hearing voices or feeling paranoid, there are meds to help with that. Mood stabilisers can help with the swings of feelings. Sleep meds will help you nod off as well However there is no 'BPD medication' as such. Perhaps being on the waiting list is a good thing? You may find that by coming here and reading others experienes with therapy, especially DBT, that your enthusiasm may start to build. Maybe see what happens, but dont rush anything. Ross Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
emylo Posted January 27, 2010 Author Report Share Posted January 27, 2010 Hi Im not so sure why im dead against therepy i have had it before over a tramatic break up and i have to say it did help but i have also had it for my physical pain and i wonted to punch the therepist when she gave me a cd to listen to which she thought would help with my pain or maybe im angry cause i wont a quick fix and i know therepy is not a quick fix im just a very angry person at the moment. At present my mood swings are gettin unbearable i can be ridiculously happy for no reason then 10 mins later totally pissed off and angry i can be like this all day on and off it exhausts me no one knows what they will get from me and to be honest neither do i some times i just scream and scream cause i dont no what to do intil i wear myself out . I wish i had the guts to ask my parents if any thign happened to me as a young child as one of my symptons of BPD is my sexual behaviour which my physicatrist pointed out to me but i have no reason to act the way i do . But thank you for all this talking im very grateful Emma Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
roxy222 Posted January 27, 2010 Report Share Posted January 27, 2010 oh and emylo, sorry to hijack your thread hi and welcome hope you like this place xxx Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hummm_mabbe Posted January 27, 2010 Report Share Posted January 27, 2010 Hi Im not so sure why im dead against therepy i have had it before over a tramatic break up and i have to say it did help but i have also had it for my physical pain and i wonted to punch the therepist when she gave me a cd to listen to which she thought would help with my pain or maybe im angry cause i wont a quick fix and i know therepy is not a quick fix im just a very angry person at the moment. At present my mood swings are gettin unbearable i can be ridiculously happy for no reason then 10 mins later totally pissed off and angry i can be like this all day on and off it exhausts me no one knows what they will get from me and to be honest neither do i some times i just scream and scream cause i dont no what to do intil i wear myself out . I wish i had the guts to ask my parents if any thign happened to me as a young child as one of my symptons of BPD is my sexual behaviour which my physicatrist pointed out to me but i have no reason to act the way i do . But thank you for all this talking im very grateful Emma I think when a therapist gives you that "too simple" solution it is one of the most angering things. It feels like they totally dont get how hard what you are going through is. Dont know if you saw the thread about someone being 'prescribed' horlicks for chronic sleep problems - this may have brought up bad memories too! I think it triggers that "your problems arent as bad as you say they are" feeling of invalidation again, and it would make me very angry as well. I guess the tough part is that, when a therapist recognises the depth of your emotions and difficulties, the only way to deal with it IS a long process. I just hope that you can get a theapist that might give you a sense of confidence and that s/he understands you, lets you go at your own pace and so on. I dont know for sure - but maybe the sexual behaviour is the one thing that reliably makes you feel better? Although you may attack yourself for it afterwards, it is coming from a place of needing to feel better. At least this shows your body is in some way trying to seek out positive feelings, and can feel them when they come along. Again from having spoken to girls on here a lot with BPD, this is definitely an often-reported thing. I often find if I am feeling alone or misunderstood about something, if I make a thread about that one thing it feels very nice to speak to others that find the same things. Just knowing im not the only person on the planet who finds it goes some small way to feeling better. keep posting! Ross Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
emylo Posted January 27, 2010 Author Report Share Posted January 27, 2010 Thank you ,you make so much sense and have been a great comfort to me today , i need to talk to more some one, monday night was the first time i admitted out loud that i have sexual behaviour issues even those for years a close family member has begged me to get help which i use to laugh at cause i found it funny but the fact is its not funny even those im sat here now with a stuipid smile on my face i feel like there is nice lovely kind sensible Emma and there there is bad Emma who is so bloody naughty she is trying tp push herself out all the time and god forbid if she does manage to get out im surpirsed she not ruined my marriage she has been close to doin it . I could go on and on but you have your own issues to do with with out me droaning on but thank you so much the way im talking now i need to do to her therepist easier said than done those .you have been very kind Emma Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
irishrob Posted January 27, 2010 Report Share Posted January 27, 2010 Hi hope youv had a good day. Iv just been reading some of your posts and thank you for making sense of alot of things. This might seem like a dense quetion but how do you go about getting diagnosed and getting help? Iv never spoken about my mood swings because I just assumed it was normal to have good and bad days but latly they have been getting alot more severe for no apparent reason. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
emylo Posted January 27, 2010 Author Report Share Posted January 27, 2010 Hi hope youv had a good day. Iv just been reading some of your posts and thank you for making sense of alot of things. This might seem like a dense quetion but how do you go about getting diagnosed and getting help? Iv never spoken about my mood swings because I just assumed it was normal to have good and bad days but latly they have been getting alot more severe for no apparent reason. Hi for me i have been up and down for cheers but i was told i was depressed but about a month ago i went into see my GP and i was bouncing of the walls like a fruit loop we sat down we had a chat and he thought i should signs of Bipolar my mental health team were i live are not good so i found a pyhcicatrist on the net who i knew had a good reputaion my GP wrote a refferal to him and i booked to seem and that was monday night we had a long indepth chat and i told him things i never told any one before and he said i do not have bipolar but i do have BPD which i have to say i have never heard of before. I feel for you about the mood swings as thta is what i am struggling with at present. Every one gets mood swings but mine can change in minutes to bein stupidly happy to be angry and hostile . He is now writing a refferal to my GP for a therepy called DBT even those i told him were to shove me personly my advice would be and if you can afford it go and see some one private . I am hoping to speak to some one about some kind of drug at least for the time bein as my mood pattern is getting worse. This ia allnew to me and im not great at giving advice but i will try. Emma Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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