So Called Former Borderlines Are Really Full Of Bs

[angelsmile]

all i want to say is please stop going on and on about it now, we all get the point you are making. and for me i hold on to the hope i can overcome bpd not just for myself but for my 3 and 7 year old daughters. they need there mummy back xxxxxxx

[*Summer*]

Foreverborderline you have just created a post about the negative points on the forum and you have gave someone here a negative point,It don't make sense.

I think this thread has gone too far now,People have tried to help you here but you have attacked them,Don't forget we are all ill here.

THE ONLY PEOPLE I HAVE ATTACKED WERE THE ONES WHO FIRST ATTACKED ME, I AM COMPASSIONATE TO ALL HERE. I ALWAYS GIVE HUGS AND OFFER SUPPORT BUT WHEN REDMAN,SHAWN,AND GUNTARDED INSULTED ME I STUCK UP FOR MYSELF, SHOULD I HAVE LET THEM WALK ALL OVER ME ?

Can u please stop using capital letters they hurt my eyes,of course you are entitled to your opinion,I knew from the first few pages that this topic would cause shit.

Sorry but I never understood why people cannot tolerate all caps , lol.

OK, I also knew it would cause shit and that is because people buy the hype of "certain so called cured people " and when I come here challenging that belief everyone comes to those folks rescue.

I merely came to challenge this belief that BPD is curable because I see how these people who write these books saying they have been cured while most Borderlines are not even close to cured is like a slap in the face to those of us still sick.

I like this board but the people on this thread causing "shit" are the ones who you need to be mad at , not me ! I am just here as a voice of reason, many people with BPD can get better with treatment and can manage the disorder (unless they have other issues going on ) but we all will always have BPD and we all need to accept that. Just like people with other incurable illnesses need to accept they can only reduce symptoms and nothing more, we also need to do this.

I guess it is a way of shouting lol.

I am not mad more frustrated i guess,I want to believe i will get well and i believe i will in future.

[foreverborderline]

all i want to say is please stop going on and on about it now, we all get the point you are making. and for me i hold on to the hope i can overcome bpd not just for myself but for my 3 and 7 year old daughters. they need there mummy back xxxxxxx

I did not mean to take away your hope. I am just looking at this not so much from a suffering Borderline but from a medical standpoint and just want people to be realistic in approaching the illness.

I hope you get better, I hope we all do. I just started this thread in anger at all the people who have wrote books or done talks saying that BPD is curable when ALL the medical evidence points the opposite direction. Is it fair to you or your girls for people to tell you that you can be cured and then you get your hopes up and it takes decades to get better like it has for me ? Who does that help ?

This is my process, what I feel I need to do... if people do not wish to read my debate then I will just debate with myself. No need to read it if it upsets you, but let me have my process and say what I need to say.

[foreverborderline]

Foreverborderline you have just created a post about the negative points on the forum and you have gave someone here a negative point,It don't make sense.

I think this thread has gone too far now,People have tried to help you here but you have attacked them,Don't forget we are all ill here.

THE ONLY PEOPLE I HAVE ATTACKED WERE THE ONES WHO FIRST ATTACKED ME, I AM COMPASSIONATE TO ALL HERE. I ALWAYS GIVE HUGS AND OFFER SUPPORT BUT WHEN REDMAN,SHAWN,AND GUNTARDED INSULTED ME I STUCK UP FOR MYSELF, SHOULD I HAVE LET THEM WALK ALL OVER ME ?

Can u please stop using capital letters they hurt my eyes,of course you are entitled to your opinion,I knew from the first few pages that this topic would cause shit.

Sorry but I never understood why people cannot tolerate all caps , lol.

OK, I also knew it would cause shit and that is because people buy the hype of "certain so called cured people " and when I come here challenging that belief everyone comes to those folks rescue.

I merely came to challenge this belief that BPD is curable because I see how these people who write these books saying they have been cured while most Borderlines are not even close to cured is like a slap in the face to those of us still sick.

I like this board but the people on this thread causing "shit" are the ones who you need to be mad at , not me ! I am just here as a voice of reason, many people with BPD can get better with treatment and can manage the disorder (unless they have other issues going on ) but we all will always have BPD and we all need to accept that. Just like people with other incurable illnesses need to accept they can only reduce symptoms and nothing more, we also need to do this.

I guess it is a way of shouting lol.

I am not mad more frustrated i guess,I want to believe i will get well and i believe i will in future.

I hope you get well too ... the point of the whole thread was not saying Borderlines cannot get better because they can , but we will never be cured, we will always have to manage it.

[jillv]

The field of psychiactric medicine makes progress. A few years ago according to the profession BPD didn't exist. Now it is generally accepted as a valid disorder. Similarly with new therapies being develped views are changing as to whether recovery is possible. We all have to move with the times, and with new research as it becomes available.

[Barebones]

correct kalico x

[foreverborderline]

The field of psychiactric medicine makes progress. A few years ago according to the profession BPD didn't exist. Now it is generally accepted as a valid disorder. Similarly with new therapies being develped views are changing as to whether recovery is possible. We all have to move with the times, and with new research as it becomes available.

I think it was more than a few years ago, I did read in the preview of DSM V that they may change the criteria and disorder name.

[Warrior Princess]

The field of psychiactric medicine makes progress. A few years ago according to the profession BPD didn't exist. Now it is generally accepted as a valid disorder. Similarly with new therapies being develped views are changing as to whether recovery is possible. We all have to move with the times, and with new research as it becomes available.

Oh good! If it doesn't exist then I'm well!

My goodness, they love to make up names and labels for things. Don't they? Truth is the disorder is not us, it's the society that creates so many hurting and confused individuals, yet that same society has to think up a name for the damage they have caused and then wrap the people up in bandaid therapies that are not effective enough to be called a cure.

I believe that the cure is with in yourself, not out there in the MH world. They don't have the answers at all.

WP

[foreverborderline]

The field of psychiactric medicine makes progress. A few years ago according to the profession BPD didn't exist. Now it is generally accepted as a valid disorder. Similarly with new therapies being develped views are changing as to whether recovery is possible. We all have to move with the times, and with new research as it becomes available.

Oh good! If it doesn't exist then I'm well!

My goodness, they love to make up names and labels for things. Don't they? Truth is the disorder is not us, it's the society that creates so many hurting and confused individuals, yet that same society has to think up a name for the damage they have caused and then wrap the people up in bandaid therapies that are not effective enough to be called a cure.

I believe that the cure is with in yourself, not out there in the MH world. They don't have the answers at all.

WP

I wish I believed that I am not the label of BPD but I feel I am my disorder not that I have a disorder.

[Jinxsta]

Technically it is cureable, because as someone already said, u can get to a point where u no longer fit the criteria.. have 5 or more symptoms... but u could still have some symptoms, therefore i suppose not be fully recovered, just not as ill as u were. I think it depends alot if u believe in therapys and if u are receptive to them, i been in dbt 2years and still fit the criteria yet another service user, spent 18 months and no longer fits the criteria.

Maybe this is about wheather the criteria system is actually the best way to dx BPD?

Some say it doesnt exist, some say it does

Some say we choose to be this way, some ay we dont

Some say its cureable, some say its not

....and thats just the professionals that dont agree... so no wonder we are all not agreeing.

xxx

[Shellybelly]

in ireland my pdoc who is one of the top ones in irelands btw

told me that bpd is not curable

it can be treated so you no longer have as many probs

but it your personality it never gonna change totally

so your always gonna be implusive and whatever

[Shellybelly]

yayyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy we just made 20 pages

im wondering can this thread make 50 now :lol:

[Jinxsta]

in ireland my pdoc who is one of the top ones in irelands btw

told me that bpd is not curable

it can be treated so you no longer have as many probs

but it your personality it never gonna change totally

so your always gonna be implusive and whatever

My T (with a doctorate) writes the NICE guidelines for people with BPD and ED's she has a few books out, Dr Lorraine Bell, if u wanna check her out... and im pretty sure she says pretty much the same... is always stressing to me "YOU have a serious mental illness" when i go on one of my "nothing wrong with me" days... but i know she believes 100% that if u commit urself to DBT and really want to change, ya symtoms will def go down.

xxx

[Shellybelly]

in 2005 i was dx with bpd

today my dx is ptsd with bpd traits

as i no longer fit the full cirteria of bpd

am i cured??? hell no

but im much better at dealing with stuff

but ill always consider myself bpd cause i cant change who i am

im always gonna be implusive and emtional

but im learning new coping mechanism so i dont react in the same ways anymore

well unless it a bad day then the old shell comes out

[Warrior Princess]

The field of psychiactric medicine makes progress. A few years ago according to the profession BPD didn't exist. Now it is generally accepted as a valid disorder. Similarly with new therapies being develped views are changing as to whether recovery is possible. We all have to move with the times, and with new research as it becomes available.

Oh good! If it doesn't exist then I'm well!

My goodness, they love to make up names and labels for things. Don't they? Truth is the disorder is not us, it's the society that creates so many hurting and confused individuals, yet that same society has to think up a name for the damage they have caused and then wrap the people up in bandaid therapies that are not effective enough to be called a cure.

I believe that the cure is with in yourself, not out there in the MH world. They don't have the answers at all.

WP

I wish I believed that I am not the label of BPD but I feel I am my disorder not that I have a disorder.

I remember the day I embraced the label and my disorder. It actually made me have more of the criteria because I felt I had to fit the bill. I felt I needed to fit in somewhere even if it was into a disorder. Almost as if I didn't want the disorder to reject me. Wierd eh? Kind of like I didn'tn want the abusers to reject me. i wanted so much to be accepted by them, to be a part of them, to be one of them! Not the one on the other end of the abuse.

One of my counsellors wanted me to reject the label but at the time I couldn't because I believed it. After a while, I stopped believing it. Then it's power over me faded and I was able to over come many of the symptoms. If I relapse again, it will be becuase I start believing it again.

This is just my story and not true for everyone. We all have our own paths and our own stories. Really is no right or wrong. Just follow your own path. ForeverBorderlines path is perhaps different than some other peoples in this thread but that does not make it wrong. It's his truth, his reality, his path.

WP

[Warrior Princess]

in ireland my pdoc who is one of the top ones in irelands btw

told me that bpd is not curable

it can be treated so you no longer have as many probs

but it your personality it never gonna change totally

so your always gonna be implusive and whatever

My personality changes by the minute. I'm a multiple. LOL

WP

[foreverborderline]

Waves @ Guntarded.

20 pages ShellyBelly yay !

Your P doc is right Shelly, not curable but for sure manageable for some. I myself wish I could manage mine, but seems so difficult much of the time.

I have been told to reject the label too but so far have been unable to do that. Hopefully one day I can find recovery but until then I have to stick to my beliefs.

I wish I could be cured, think it is more difficult for people with more than just BPD to get help, the more issues we have , the harder it is to recover.

My personality changes by the minute as well.

[foreverborderline]

Jinx said it best - some docs say there is a cure and some not - who knows . What I do know is that we all are suffering in some way and it really is about reducing the suffering.

[foreverborderline]

Long thread , lets just agree to disagree if we do, and just help each other ...

I am firm in my belief that there is no cure and never will be, that we only can manage and accept our illness but we can debate without fighting.

Maybe lets just ask the people who say they are cured, if they truly feel cured.

[Data]

Here is an imaginary story.

David was an unemployed alcoholic and occasional cocaine user. He frequently self-harmed by cutting and burning his arms and legs. His outbursts of anger were also a problem and he has had some arrests, fines and short prison terms because of his behaviour in the past.

David sought psychiatric help after an incident when his girlfriend said she was thinking about leaving him. Her main complaint was that he was like a "Jekyll and Hyde" character: some days he would show her intense love, other times it was like he hated her, and he could flip between the two very quickly. After the argument, he hung around her place for weeks trying to persuade her not to leave him. One day they had a particularly bad argument and he tried to jump off a bridge but was "talked down" and was admitted to a hospital. The hospital discharged him and his psychiatrist tried him on a course of cognitive behavioural therapy.

Unfortunately the CBT didn't help and David went back to the bridge and jumped off. Nobody stopped him this time, but a shopkeeper spotted what had happened and dialled 999. Fortunately the emergency services came quickly and David was pulled from the river, still breathing.

David was taken to the accident and emergency. He had fractured his spine in 3 places, and was paralysed from the neck down. He spent one month in hospital and, despite physiotherapy, he would never again regain any movement in his body, apart from his head. He was then discharged and lived in a nursing home, where he required 24/7 nursing care.

Predictably, David's girlfriend couldn't cope with what happened and this time she left him for good. She also started a blog about him on the internet, which contained a number of disparaging comments.

Six months later, the psychiatrist visited him in the home and said that he no longer had BPD! During his time in the home, he had never abused cocaine or alcohol. Also, he had never cut or burned himself or attempted suicide. The psychiatrist explained that, as he no longer had the required number of criteria for BPD, he was cured. Every cloud has a silver lining!

The end.

[icu_baby]

wow data I love that. So the moral of the story is that everyone in life has problems and worries but not everyone has a label for it.

[bena.baby]

Totally disagree that you can't recover/be cured/whatever (to me, cured and recovery are the same - sure, you might always have to watch yourself for symptoms, but I think those who have recovered from mh probs are probably more mentally healthy than those who never had them cos we can deal better with the stress of life).

Until last year, I had never had a day's peace from my thoughts. I never really acted that bpd, didn't do much self-harm, suicide attempts or any of that stuff, just had the odd screaming meltdown. All the symptoms were things in my head - loneliness, uncertainty, hating other people, hating myself...I really thought I was never going to get better. I have lived in about 20 different places in the last 5 years, never had a job longer than 6 months, lost friends, all that stuff.

Now I'm settled in London, in a long-term and healthy relationship and feel so much better. I used to find it almost impossible to get up in the morning, and now I don't even think about it. When I am working (I still don't have a stable job, working on that), I just get up and go to work, instead of torturing myself about it for hours beforehand.

So I haven't just learnt to "manage" the symptoms. The symptoms have gone. I don't do OR feel the things I used to. I'm not saying I'm totally recovered yet, but I know that I will one day, because I can see the symptoms going away all the time. My boyfriend is going on holiday in a few weeks - normally I'd be dreading being without him already, but although I know that I will miss him, I feel ok about it.

I know people can get better from this.

Oh and I just wanted to add that I don't think the definitions are as simple as borderline - non-borderline. Everyone is somewhere on the scale and when you get to a certain point of being ok, it's pretty hard to tell if someone is borderline or not. Right now, I feel like my behaviour and feelings are a lot more psychologically "normal" than a lot of my friends who've never even thought about going to the doctor for mh issues.

[Joshua]

This thread goes on and on and i dont see anything positive coming from it.

It can be cured, it cant be cured... So boring.

The fact is even if every shrink in the world agreed and said this can not be cured it would not change the fact that some people have been told they will die from cancer or injuries from a car crash or they wont recover from a coma by a doctor and they have in fact fully recovered!!!

This world is obsessed by diagnosis and labels! We all must have something!

What makes me a little frustrated is the fact that you are not just offering an opinion but TELLING people they are not cured and in fact a bull shitter. You must remember that the dsm was created by a bunch of quite old, white, shrinks round a table, and the first edition had only a few disorders listed and today we have text addict disorder blah blah.

In the dsm it lists conditions that are not recognised by the ICD (World Health Organisation)

[roxy222]

forever - i think you have an interesting thread and if you feel the need to explore your feelings like this then pls ignore people who do not find this useful

jst a quick note, i do find caps impossible, i think its related to my adhd and how i process info cauise of that, it literally hurts my eyes and sets of the innattention stuff for me

id like to talk about what youv said about false hope, or maybe just hope. i understand (and have seen firts hand) how amazing a thing hope is for people, how transforming, how life saving. for me it is not like that at all, i find hope an unbearabel burden, i feel the crush of hope and it brings with it so much despair. when i grew up, with daily abuse, i cd not possible risk thinking of furture, i was told in furture i would be dead, so hope was not a concept i cd have the luxary of. i think v much the same feelings are triggered, and the devastating pain of that reality is far too much for me. so hope is not something i find positive, it is allways false to me, allways something that brings unbearable longing and sinks me further into despair. for me i need very much to let go of hope, to concentrate on the very present moment, to learn not to dissociate when painful feelings come up. this is what works for me, i am not for a second suggesting that it is perfect for others, or that my truth is theirs.

reason this stands out for me is that what you seem to be doing here (and im not menaing to make assumptions) is talk about what you 'think' very strongly, where as what comes accross is what you feel, and im woundering if it might be more helpful for you (and maybe not necessarily here) to focus on those feelings. you speak about false hope as if the system has played a nasty trick on you, and as if you are still reeling in pain from that. sometime it can feel easier to experience our feelings or justify our feelings if they are set in an external setting, like how people get overwhelmingly angry over wars because they somewhere deep down dont feel like they have the right to feel angry about how hurt thye feel in their own lives. this is a very understandable dysfunctional function as it can often be unbearable to experience our personal feelings without the support of another, it can feel too real, too threatening, too risky, or we can sometime feel like we are not worty enough to feel that strongly about something that is just about us. I understand this defense very well, i get enraged over child abuse, and althoguh i do not think that anger is dissproportionate i do think that it is easier for me to find this external way of experiencing this rather than dealing with how angry i feel over what was done to me, because those feelings feel so overwhelming im quite sure on a very irrational level they might kill me. and reading what you write here it feels like you are doing this also. im not saying you do not have a right to voice thoughts and opinions on this issue, but i think what people are hearing and what they are reacting to are the force of your personal feelings comign through not your opinion. i know thoughts and feelings can not be so easily seperated, but mayeb if you spent sometim dealing with the actual feelings you have about this and how these feelings have effected you then you may find you are less triggered by other peoples reactions to you. maybe what you are really looking for here is to get those feelings heard, and as people are fighting against opinions your feelings are getting lost and feel even more unheard and hurt?

like i said, not menaing to make assumptions, this jst seems to stand out a bit to me, apologies if wrong

[foreverborderline]

This thread goes on and on and i dont see anything positive coming from it.

It can be cured, it cant be cured... So boring.

The fact is even if every shrink in the world agreed and said this can not be cured it would not change the fact that some people have been told they will die from cancer or injuries from a car crash or they wont recover from a coma by a doctor and they have in fact fully recovered!!!

This world is obsessed by diagnosis and labels! We all must have something!

What makes me a little frustrated is the fact that you are not just offering an opinion but TELLING people they are not cured and in fact a bull shitter. You must remember that the dsm was created by a bunch of quite old, white, shrinks round a table, and the first edition had only a few disorders listed and today we have text addict disorder blah blah.

In the dsm it lists conditions that are not recognised by the ICD (World Health Organisation)

Wow Joshy , for someone who runs a board and is a counselor and supposed to be professional you sure have a bad attitude. I shall pray that you get help with that. I know that people here put you up on this pedestal and the fact that I mentioned you as being one of the people who "claim" to have been cured but are not is what upset the board. I never TOLD anyone what to believe , I just stuck by my belief that BPD cannot be cured, I am sure it can be managed for some but not cured. I also want to say that the APA and the DSM are the forefront leaders in Psych conditions and not the World Health Organization. I believe that as someone who is supposed to set an example on this board you are not doing so, must be nice to run a place like this and get all those donations to line your pockets and then just treat people the way you do, and you call yourself recovered ? Ha, good one Josh. I know you may ban me for saying things unpopular to you and your belief system but I myself do not believe in censorship and feel I am entitled to my opinion.