So Called Former Borderlines Are Really Full Of Bs

[foreverborderline]

Here is an imaginary story.

David was an unemployed alcoholic and occasional cocaine user. He frequently self-harmed by cutting and burning his arms and legs. His outbursts of anger were also a problem and he has had some arrests, fines and short prison terms because of his behaviour in the past.

David sought psychiatric help after an incident when his girlfriend said she was thinking about leaving him. Her main complaint was that he was like a "Jekyll and Hyde" character: some days he would show her intense love, other times it was like he hated her, and he could flip between the two very quickly. After the argument, he hung around her place for weeks trying to persuade her not to leave him. One day they had a particularly bad argument and he tried to jump off a bridge but was "talked down" and was admitted to a hospital. The hospital discharged him and his psychiatrist tried him on a course of cognitive behavioural therapy.

Unfortunately the CBT didn't help and David went back to the bridge and jumped off. Nobody stopped him this time, but a shopkeeper spotted what had happened and dialled 999. Fortunately the emergency services came quickly and David was pulled from the river, still breathing.

David was taken to the accident and emergency. He had fractured his spine in 3 places, and was paralysed from the neck down. He spent one month in hospital and, despite physiotherapy, he would never again regain any movement in his body, apart from his head. He was then discharged and lived in a nursing home, where he required 24/7 nursing care.

Predictably, David's girlfriend couldn't cope with what happened and this time she left him for good. She also started a blog about him on the internet, which contained a number of disparaging comments.

Six months later, the psychiatrist visited him in the home and said that he no longer had BPD! During his time in the home, he had never abused cocaine or alcohol. Also, he had never cut or burned himself or attempted suicide. The psychiatrist explained that, as he no longer had the required number of criteria for BPD, he was cured. Every cloud has a silver lining!

The end.

VERY IMAGINARY.

[Joshua]

You are rude and very insulting and have a real knack at attempting to make everyone feel small and inferior to you. You may go on and on about how your right and it’s your opinion and your entitled but so are others without the fear of one of your temper tantrums when things don’t go your way.

[foreverborderline]

You are rude and very insulting and have a real knack at attempting to make everyone feel small and inferior to you. You may go on and on about how your right and it’s your opinion and your entitled but so are others without the fear of one of your temper tantrums when things don’t go your way.

You have me all wrong sir. I feel I am right here and I feel you know it as well. I have just proven a point. That YOU still have BPD. By the way you snap and get emotional and flip out it is clear that you are not cured... btw, never threw a temper tantrum, just expressing myself and sticking up for myself and my beliefs. I wonder if you talk to your clients this way, if you do then I feel sorry for them .

[DaisyChain]

I think this is getting way too personal and off topic

[Joshua]

You have me all wrong sir. I feel I am right here and I feel you know it as well. I have just proven a point. That YOU still have BPD. By the way you snap and get emotional and flip out it is clear that you are not cured... btw, never threw a temper tantrum, just expressing myself and sticking up for myself and my beliefs. I wonder if you talk to your clients this way, if you do then I feel sorry for them .

You feel you are right and you feel i know it to? (wow really?)

You make all of these assessments and assumptions based on what? You are assuming that i am emotional and flipping out when really I’m sitting here calmly wondering what makes you think your so right all the time?.

In regards to the temper tantrum.. It was only the other day you were threatening to harm yourself in response to some of the comments made to you in a thread you had started. This is what i define as a temper tantrum.

[foreverborderline]

I think this is getting way too personal and off topic

I agree. I tried to make an ammends and apologize for some things but still get attacked for my beliefs, I really am disappointed in what Joshua has done here, I thought he was more professional than that, to put down people who are sick when he is a trained MH professional and supposed to be more compassionate to those who are sick.

[Joshua]

I agree. I tried to make an ammends and apologize for some things but still get attacked for my beliefs, I really am disappointed in what Joshua has done here, I thought he was more professional than that, to put down people who are sick when he is a trained MH professional and supposed to be more compassionate to those who are sick.

You assume here that I am unable to be both compassionate and honest about the way i am thinking about this situation.

[RedMan]

I never TOLD anyone what to believe

No you just called anyone who believed differently a liar and bullshitter.

I am entitled to my opinion.

OK so you are entitled to yours but don't like it when people suggest you are wrong but it's perfectly OK for you to hurl insults at people who believe differently to you?

You believe that BPD in incurable, that's fine, I don't. If you want to debate the subject fine but just throwing insults and using terms like bullshitter doesn't help your argument, you are angry, some of the other replies on here are angry as well. I think a few posts have been made that maybe don't show their authors in the best light (yes I do include myself in that).

[Data]

Hey foreverborderline, lay off Joshua. He is a good guy, he is not lining his own pockets in fact he often has to pay for things to do with this forum out of his own money.

[foreverborderline]

You have me all wrong sir. I feel I am right here and I feel you know it as well. I have just proven a point. That YOU still have BPD. By the way you snap and get emotional and flip out it is clear that you are not cured... btw, never threw a temper tantrum, just expressing myself and sticking up for myself and my beliefs. I wonder if you talk to your clients this way, if you do then I feel sorry for them .

You feel you are right and you feel i know it to? (wow really?)

You make all of these assessments and assumptions based on what? You are assuming that i am emotional and flipping out when really I’m sitting here calmly wondering what makes you think your so right all the time?.

In regards to the temper tantrum.. It was only the other day you were threatening to harm yourself in response to some of the comments made to you in a thread you had started. This is what i define as a temper tantrum.

Those were not threats, really did harm myself. Of course I am having problems or as you call them tantrums, I am not well like some and as a counselor you have compassion for that. If you were my counselor and talked to me this way in a session I would right away report you to your licensing body. It is not a temper tantrum, why would a counselor and someone who supposed to know BPD talk to people in such a way, further proof that you are not cured so yes I am right Josh, must be easy to get MH degress in Britain huh ?

You think I am wrong here and throwing a tantrum when I have every right to feel this way being how you and some others talk to me.

I think we should all step back and see this for what it is , I am trying to be civil and you are still fighting, who is throwing the tantrum ?

Back on topic, why can't you just come clean and admit that saying you are cured in your book is dangerous and irresponsible as we ALL know there is no cure and the disorder can only be managed, I am sure that you have done well in managing BPD as you have a nice site here and prob a nice life but you are not cured, evidence by your sarcasm and other ways of talking, sounds like maybe you also have Anti Social Personality Disorder, just a thought.

[Joshua]

Hey foreverborderline, lay off Joshua. He is a good guy, he is not lining his own pockets in fact he often has to pay for things to do with this forum out of his own money.

Thank you Data but lets not make this into a battle of sides. I am quite able and comfortable to express my views to foreverbrderline, and felt that in not doing so would only allow this situation to continue. Where people are put down for simply expressing a view.

[RedMan]

That YOU still have BPD. By the way you snap and get emotional and flip out it is clear that you are not cured...

Because people who don't have BPD don't get emotional and flip out I suppose?

[foreverborderline]

Hey foreverborderline, lay off Joshua. He is a good guy, he is not lining his own pockets in fact he often has to pay for things to do with this forum out of his own money.

I never said he was not a good guy but once he shows me some respect I will show him some. And I am sure there are expenses but also know that he makes a pretty profit off the site, Josh can you agree ?

[Data]

ok I've said my views so I will shut up now

I wonder how long before this topic is locked......

[foreverborderline]

That YOU still have BPD. By the way you snap and get emotional and flip out it is clear that you are not cured...

Because people who don't have BPD don't get emotional and flip out I suppose?

Oh Redman, nice to see you old friend.

Yes they do but not in the way we Borderlines do.

[foreverborderline]

ok I've said my views so I will shut up now

I wonder how long before this topic is locked......

I guess when Josh decides I am right then he will lock it.

Locking threads is what is BS most of all as censorship is wrong and not the way to go.. let people share their views and don't lock things up, that is nuts.

In real life as a counselor Josh or any other counselor cannot censor people because they do not want to hear what they have to say. We all are entitled to our opinions and censoring a topic says that our feelings are invalid and do not matter, is that fair ? Nope it is not for sure.

[Joshua]

Those were not threats, really did harm myself. Of course I am having problems or as you call them tantrums, I am not well like some and as a counselor you have compassion for that. If you were my counselor and talked to me this way in a session I would right away report you to your licensing body. It is not a temper tantrum, why would a counselor and someone who supposed to know BPD talk to people in such a way, further proof that you are not cured so yes I am right Josh, must be easy to get MH degress in Britain huh ?

You think I am wrong here and throwing a tantrum when I have every right to feel this way being how you and some others talk to me.

I think we should all step back and see this for what it is , I am trying to be civil and you are still fighting, who is throwing the tantrum ?

Back on topic, why can't you just come clean and admit that saying you are cured in your book is dangerous and irresponsible as we ALL know there is no cure and the disorder can only be managed, I am sure that you have done well in managing BPD as you have a nice site here and prob a nice life but you are not cured, evidence by your sarcasm and other ways of talking, sounds like maybe you also have Anti Social Personality Disorder, just a thought.

The fact you harmed yourself does not make what you did any better. People were expressing a view that differed to your own and in doing so you stated that you would then hurt yourself, this leaving many people extremely concerned and feeling guilty.

The fact is I’m not your counsellor, I am here as myself and offer my own opinion on what i have witnessed through reading your thread and people's responses to them. Your response to this is to insult me continuously and attempt to diagnose the problems you perceive i have.

[RedMan]

as we ALL know there is no cure and the disorder can only be managed

I don't know that so please don't include me in your statements.

[Joshua]

I never said he was not a good guy but once he shows me some respect I will show him some. And I am sure there are expenses but also know that he makes a pretty profit off the site, Josh can you agree ?

No, as this is untrue.

[foreverborderline]

Those were not threats, really did harm myself. Of course I am having problems or as you call them tantrums, I am not well like some and as a counselor you have compassion for that. If you were my counselor and talked to me this way in a session I would right away report you to your licensing body. It is not a temper tantrum, why would a counselor and someone who supposed to know BPD talk to people in such a way, further proof that you are not cured so yes I am right Josh, must be easy to get MH degress in Britain huh ?

You think I am wrong here and throwing a tantrum when I have every right to feel this way being how you and some others talk to me.

I think we should all step back and see this for what it is , I am trying to be civil and you are still fighting, who is throwing the tantrum ?

Back on topic, why can't you just come clean and admit that saying you are cured in your book is dangerous and irresponsible as we ALL know there is no cure and the disorder can only be managed, I am sure that you have done well in managing BPD as you have a nice site here and prob a nice life but you are not cured, evidence by your sarcasm and other ways of talking, sounds like maybe you also have Anti Social Personality Disorder, just a thought.

I will just stay on topic and stop with the back and forth stuff. BPD cannot be cured and seeing how you and others claim to have been cured but still act out is clear proof of that, end of story. I did not harm myself because people's opinions differed from mine but because I was attacked and made to feel little and insignificant and I was hurt by certain members and you just let it happen,

shame on you sir.

The fact you harmed yourself does not make what you did any better. People were expressing a view that differed to your own and in doing so you stated that you would then hurt yourself, this leaving many people extremely concerned and feeling guilty.

The fact is I’m not your counsellor, I am here as myself and offer my own opinion on what i have witnessed through reading your thread and people's responses to them. Your response to this is to insult me continuously and attempt to diagnose the problems you perceive i have.

[Jinxsta]

Here is an imaginary story.

David was an unemployed alcoholic and occasional cocaine user. He frequently self-harmed by cutting and burning his arms and legs. His outbursts of anger were also a problem and he has had some arrests, fines and short prison terms because of his behaviour in the past.

David sought psychiatric help after an incident when his girlfriend said she was thinking about leaving him. Her main complaint was that he was like a "Jekyll and Hyde" character: some days he would show her intense love, other times it was like he hated her, and he could flip between the two very quickly. After the argument, he hung around her place for weeks trying to persuade her not to leave him. One day they had a particularly bad argument and he tried to jump off a bridge but was "talked down" and was admitted to a hospital. The hospital discharged him and his psychiatrist tried him on a course of cognitive behavioural therapy.

Unfortunately the CBT didn't help and David went back to the bridge and jumped off. Nobody stopped him this time, but a shopkeeper spotted what had happened and dialled 999. Fortunately the emergency services came quickly and David was pulled from the river, still breathing.

David was taken to the accident and emergency. He had fractured his spine in 3 places, and was paralysed from the neck down. He spent one month in hospital and, despite physiotherapy, he would never again regain any movement in his body, apart from his head. He was then discharged and lived in a nursing home, where he required 24/7 nursing care.

Predictably, David's girlfriend couldn't cope with what happened and this time she left him for good. She also started a blog about him on the internet, which contained a number of disparaging comments.

Six months later, the psychiatrist visited him in the home and said that he no longer had BPD! During his time in the home, he had never abused cocaine or alcohol. Also, he had never cut or burned himself or attempted suicide. The psychiatrist explained that, as he no longer had the required number of criteria for BPD, he was cured. Every cloud has a silver lining!

The end.

Very good, from what i took from it, coz he cant move to carryout whats going on in his head he now doesnt have it... borderline mind in a paralysed body.. hes not showing all symtoms because he cant!

xxx

[roxy222]

I agree. I tried to make an ammends and apologize for some things but still get attacked for my beliefs, I really am disappointed in what Joshua has done here, I thought he was more professional than that, to put down people who are sick when he is a trained MH professional and supposed to be more compassionate to those who are sick.

You assume here that I am unable to be both compassionate and honest about the way i am thinking about this situation.

maybe you cd show some of that compassion? because this place is sorely lacking that at present

[Joshua]

I guess when Josh decides I am right then he will lock it.

To me this seems an attempt to have me keep it open as if i dont it will then be an admission that you are correct. Im sorry but this isnt something I agree with either.

Locking threads is what is BS most of all as censorship is wrong and not the way to go.. let people share their views and don't lock things up, that is nuts.

Yes ideally you are right but circumstances do not always allow for this. For instance where the topic becomes unmanageable....

In real life as a counselor Josh or any other counselor cannot censor people because they do not want to hear what they have to say. We all are entitled to our opinions and censoring a topic says that our feelings are invalid and do not matter, is that fair ? Nope it is not for sure.

I also agree with this point to a point. People are entitled to their views and entitled to express them in a way in which society would believe it to be acceptable. Reacting to each view with abuse, attacks, or other bully like tactics is not what i would consider acceptable.

[Data]

Very good, from what i took from it, coz he cant move to carryout whats going on in his head he now doesnt have it... borderline mind in a paralysed body.. hes not showing all symtoms because he cant!

Yes thats what I was getting at. The criteria tend to relate to behaviour rather than the person's state of mind. This might make it more objective since behaviour is easier to observe than a state of mind. However, sometimes people 'act out' less, they stop cutting etc. This does not necessarily mean that they are happier, just that they have found different ways do deal with things. But it might cause them to have less than the magic 5 criteria in the current DSM, so some doctors would call them 'cured'.

[Jinxsta]

Very good, from what i took from it, coz he cant move to carryout whats going on in his head he now doesnt have it... borderline mind in a paralysed body.. hes not showing all symtoms because he cant!

Yes thats what I was getting at. The criteria tend to relate to behaviour rather than the person's state of mind. This might make it more objective since behaviour is easier to observe than a state of mind. However, sometimes people 'act out' less, they stop cutting etc. This does not necessarily mean that they are happier, just that they have found different ways do deal with things. But it might cause them to have less than the magic 5 criteria in the current DSM, so some doctors would call them 'cured'.

I agree.... not picking it apart, its just really got me thinking but, can he talk? assuming he can, he could still fit the criteria;

1. frantic efforts to avoid real or imagined abandonment. Note: Do not include suicidal or self-mutilating behavior covered in Criterion 5............ "i wont be able to survive if u leave me"

2. a pattern of unstable and intense interpersonal relationships characterized by alternating between extremes of idealization and devaluation. .....could still do that.

3. identity disturbance: markedly and persistently unstable self-image or sense of self.....still feel that

4. impulsivity in at least two areas that are potentially self-damaging (e.g., spending, sex, substance abuse, reckless driving, binge eating). Note: Do not include suicidal or self-mutilating behavior covered in Criterion 5.... couldnt do

5. recurrent suicidal behavior, gestures, or threats, or self-mutilating behavior......refuse to eat

6. affective instability due to a marked reactivity of mood (e.g., intense episodic dysphoria, irritability, or anxiety usually lasting a few hours and only rarely more than a few days)....could still get

7. chronic feelings of emptiness ....still feel

8. inappropriate, intense anger or difficulty controlling anger (e.g., frequent displays of temper, constant anger, recurrent physical fights) ....screaming and shouting

9. transient, stress-related paranoid ideation or severe dissociative symptoms.....still get

If he couldnt talk then he wouldnt be able to really express much anyway... but if he had a headache, he couldnt say he has but he would still feel it.

hmmmmmm

xxx