So Called Former Borderlines Are Really Full Of Bs

[angelsmile]

all i want to say and do is this........ xx

[Roses]

excellent!!!! BPD World BB House 2010 head bashalon.... whoever does it longest gets meals for a week!

(thanks Chips) :hug2:

[roxy222]

to foreverborderline

im sorry you feel such little hope

i got dx with cptsd yrs ago (although i assume the medical records actually show ptsd cause cptsd ot in dsm) i also got told i recovered from that. my life is very funbctional so maybe thats true, but i still have symptoms. i also have adhd, which another pyshc (who happens to be a highly repected world expert) believes is ddnos. there have been other problems too, many recovered, many not.

for me, the way i see things, it is perfectly possible to recover from symptoms, but not from what caused all this. this is my truth, maybe it is aplicable to others maybe not. people have individual jounreys and no one is a label, just because one person has a dx the same as another doesnt mean they are dealing with the same core problems, because dx are jst some drs best guess of what symptoms you best fit under, they are not the be all and end all of who people are (although god knows the mh profession would have everyone believe they are). maybe some people can recover from what has caused them to be unwell, maybe some can not, maybe for some it will allways be a work in progress, either way for the sake of individual well being people have the right to find there own definitions of these concepts that mean something to them. i respect your feelings on the subject but absolutely respect others right to find their own definitions of recovery and hope, just because they feel differently doesnt mean they are bullshitting, their truth is not yours and neither invalidate the other. im sorry you are not getting the help and support you deserve.

maybe after this thread the next recovery topic should be can people recover from being bitchy and needing to target others??? or maybe their cd be a nice forum challenge to cut the viciousness???

[foreverborderline]

Thanks Roxy , I am sorry too that I feel such little hope. Thanks for the insight.

To Roses and all the fellow " Head bangers' - No need to harm yourselves, if you believe the false projections of some in the BPD community that people can be cured then by all means believe that, but if you really want to know the truth and take off the blinders

then read this.

Although there is no “cure” for Borderline Personality Disorder, the condition can be brought under control through dialectical behavioral therapy, a combination of cognitive reconditioning and zen mindfulness. (Kriesman says this - one of leading docs on BPD)

LET'S STOP TELLING PEOPLE IT CAN BE CURED AND HELP THEM MANAGE IT.

[roxy222]

recovered and cured are considered two different concepts within mh though, they believe recovered is not cured, that no one is cured ever and that recovery is possible. maybe differentiation between the two maybe helpful

like i said i feel people should be allowed their own definitions

[foreverborderline]

Another Scholarly article by Dr. John Gunderson - (BPD expert)

Psychotherapy

All of the psychotherapies proving successful for Borderline Personality Disorder (BPD) strive to address underlying deficits in the ability of patients to relate to others and manage emotions, longstanding problems that are typically rooted in childhood experience. Several forms of psychotherapy— including dialectical-behavioral therapy (DBT), cognitive-behavioral therapy (CBT), transference-focused therapy, and mentalization-based therapy - have been found in studies to be effective for Borderline Personality Disorder.

Cognitive-behavioral therapy (CBT)

Transference-focused therapy (TFP)

Dialectical-behavioral therapy (DBT)

Schema-focused Therapy (SFT) and

Mentalization-based therapy (MBT)

Experts say this new crop of clinical trials has propelled the field into the era of evidence-based medicine. While there is still no cure for this disorder Dr. Gunderson among others claim that it can be treated and managed with the effectiveness of DBT and other related therapies. As demonstrated in a study in the July 2006 Archives of General Psychiatry. Transference-focused therapy was also proven effective

The experts say it, now I say again - WE ARE NOT DOING ANYONE ANY GOOD BY PRETENDING THERE ARE PEOPLE WHO HAVE FULLY RECOVERED. THAT IS A FACT. DO NOT BLAME ME , THE DOCS AND EXPERTS ALL SAY THAT THERE IS NO CURE, ONLY MANAGEMENT OF SYMPTOMS.

[foreverborderline]

recovered and cured are considered two different concepts within mh though, they believe recovered is not cured, that no one is cured ever and that recovery is possible. maybe differentiation between the two maybe helpful

like i said i feel people should be allowed their own definitions

That is true Roxy but I firmly believe nobody ever can be recovered, it is always a process with the chance of a flare up or relapse. We are always recovering but never fully recovered. Just like Alcoholics are never recovered but recovering, same with BPD.

[roxy222]

maybe part of the problem is how society in general sees mh though

like everyone has mental health, even people who do not have dx have times of stress and anxiety and feelings low and para and lots of other things. obviously this does not impact on their lives in the same way it does for people with mh dx, but it is something that is present within all peoples mental health and everyone out there has a responsibility to look after their mh and emotional wellbeing, something that is not given a high priority in our world. i guess for people who have had dx and then seen to be recovered this management may include more work, more vigilance, more effort, more care,more support. maybe because of the reasons they had dx in the first place, maybe because they know how low things can get, but in general the idea that people have 'good mental health' is a pretty vacant one (no pun intended). there are people who manage their mh better than others, people who have much easier than others, people who are more resilant than others, and some people have much greater challenges facing them with regards to mh (like dx), but there is no such thing as 100% mentally well, in fact considering the world we live in itd be pretty crazy if there was. maybe if instead of things being seen as well or ill the idea of a continum or spectrum would be more aplicable and therefor ideas of recovery would make more sence because it would still allow for the idea of managing things as well as being recovered, which maybe means more to some people

[foreverborderline]

maybe part of the problem is how society in general sees mh though

like everyone has mental health, even people who do not have dx have times of stress and anxiety and feelings low and para and lots of other things. obviously this does not impact on their lives in the same way it does for people with mh dx, but it is something that is present within all peoples mental health and everyone out there has a responsibility to look after their mh and emotional wellbeing, something that is not given a high priority in our world. i guess for people who have had dx and then seen to be recovered this management may include more work, more vigilance, more effort, more care,more support. maybe because of the reasons they had dx in the first place, maybe because they know how low things can get, but in general the idea that people have 'good mental health' is a pretty vacant one (no pun intended). there are people who manage their mh better than others, people who have much easier than others, people who are more resilant than others, and some people have much greater challenges facing them with regards to mh (like dx), but there is no such thing as 100% mentally well, in fact considering the world we live in itd be pretty crazy if there was. maybe if instead of things being seen as well or ill the idea of a continum or spectrum would be more aplicable and therefor ideas of recovery would make more sence because it would still allow for the idea of managing things as well as being recovered, which maybe means more to some people

Makes sense. I can certainly see where you are coming from. I think the whole debate about whether there is or not a cure for BPD is a cultural one. Here in the U.S. the general MH opinion is that there is no cure and it can only be managed, but in the UK and elsewhere that may be different. There should be no cultural difference in diagnoses, it should be all around. I do believe though that there are some people who are close to 100% mentally well, although maybe not completely so.

[SusieQ]

I'm probably just repeating what other people have said here. This is an interesting debate, but I must admit 14 pages is a bit much for me!

I think it has a lot to do with whether or not bpd is pysiological or due to experiences in life. I personally think it is a combination of both. You cannot change the physiology of your brain, but you can overcome an awful lot, and learn better ways to manage and cope with things.

I think the majority of people are prone to relapse and some people will feel that all they can do is manage rather than recover. So long as you don't see this as a reason to give up trying to improve your mental and emotional well-being I don't see the problem with this viewpoint.

[foreverborderline]

I'm probably just repeating what other people have said here. This is an interesting debate, but I must admit 14 pages is a bit much for me!

I think it has a lot to do with whether or not bpd is pysiological or due to experiences in life. I personally think it is a combination of both. You cannot change the physiology of your brain, but you can overcome an awful lot, and learn better ways to manage and cope with things.

I think the majority of people are prone to relapse and some people will feel that all they can do is manage rather than recover. So long as you don't see this as a reason to give up trying to improve your mental and emotional well-being I don't see the problem with this viewpoint.

Well put. I believe also that it is a combo of both. BPD is a brain problem as well as what has happened to us, the behaviors we can overcome and improve or change but the thoughts and feelings is more difficult. The brain deficiency is why BPD is believed to be incurable. I agree with what you have said here.

I will say again to all those who disagree - OUR BEST HOPE IS MANAGEMENT.

Some will get better, some won't or can't, and some there is no telling. I feel (as well as many MH professionals ) that the chances are slim I will get better but maybe for people that do not have addictions and other PDs or mood disorders their chances are better. I think all the people who have got better or claim to have been cured have less to deal with socially,financially,emotionally,and so on. The more a person faces or more problems in life and themselves they have, the less likely they will get better.

[Barbara A]

My prognosis as to getting better was "guarded", whatever that means.

[Data]

OUR BEST HOPE IS MANAGEMENT.

Forgive me if I appear to be changing my mind on this one.

To some people with BPD, it feels like they are in hell. If "MANAGEMENT" is possible, if the pain is reduced, for them maybe thats all that matters?

[foreverborderline]

OUR BEST HOPE IS MANAGEMENT.

Forgive me if I appear to be changing my mind on this one.

To some people with BPD, it feels like they are in hell. If "MANAGEMENT" is possible, if the pain is reduced, for them maybe thats all that matters?

Makes sense.

[icu_baby]

OUR BEST HOPE IS MANAGEMENT.

Forgive me if I appear to be changing my mind on this one.

To some people with BPD, it feels like they are in hell. If "MANAGEMENT" is possible, if the pain is reduced, for them maybe thats all that matters?

Makes sense.

I guess bpd is a lot like diabetes then. You need to accept it and learn to manage it. People with diabetes learn to manage their illness by taking insulin drugs, exercise and diet (though I suggest that this is not a great analogy because one illness is physical illness and the other is an emotional pain illness.

However, Even if (and I say even if) there is no cure for bpd, you can still achieve a meaningful and fulfilling life.

It also depends a lot about individual circumstances such as willingness to change and the help and resources available. I know with bipolar disorder that it is not curable but can be remitted. Some people have one episode and never again in their lifes while others have chronic symptoms. The illnesses of both bpd and bipolar affect each individual differently in both substance and severity.

[shawnm339]

It has been shown that both drugs and alcohol contribute to mental health issues perhaps you feel this way because like me you're stuck in a vicious cycle, pain = self-medication = guilt = pain = self-medication you get it...I've been ill with a virus for 2 days and haven't touched a drop of alcohol..

perhaps without the drugs you think you won't be able to cope so you're writing your chances off to enable your drug taking....my wife allows me to drink so she in some respects has enabled my illness and it self destructive impulses..you seem to be your own enabler...I know at some point I'm going to get better from this virus my body will produce anti-bodies that will defeat it...I need to reprogramme my brain to deal with the pain and the anger to ensure I don't continue with my self-destructive behaviours...

end of the day CBT and DBT requires the person to be open to change it sounds to me that until you accept that you can change you wouldn't really get any benefit from it and that is the crux of the problem for MH's dealing with BPD we spend years doing things that feel so normal to us as a means of coping...I for one am early into even identifying the way I've been living could be BPD I have to hope that we may not be fully cured in the strict medical sense of say cancer or having a hip replacement but like my thyroid I've learnt to self-regulate through education and my medication and if their was a site needed about supporting people with thyroid problems I'd hope it looked like this place...dont burn your bridges take each day as it comes but for god sakes if it means getting locked in a room with tins of soup and a bucket and a blanket get off the drugs

[shawnm339]

OUR BEST HOPE IS MANAGEMENT.

Forgive me if I appear to be changing my mind on this one.

To some people with BPD, it feels like they are in hell. If "MANAGEMENT" is possible, if the pain is reduced, for them maybe thats all that matters?

Makes sense.

I guess bpd is a lot like diabetes then. You need to accept it and learn to manage it. People with diabetes learn to manage their illness by taking insulin drugs, exercise and diet (though I suggest that this is not a great analogy because one illness is physical illness and the other is an emotional pain illness.

However, Even if (and I say even if) there is no cure for bpd, you can still achieve a meaningful and fulfilling life.

It also depends a lot about individual circumstances such as willingness to change and the help and resources available. I know with bipolar disorder that it is not curable but can be remitted. Some people have one episode and never again in their lifes while others have chronic symptoms. The illnesses of both bpd and bipolar affect each individual differently in both substance and severity.

great minds think alike pretty much what ive put but yours has no waffle can you tell im doing a law degree lol

[icu_baby]

OUR BEST HOPE IS MANAGEMENT.

Forgive me if I appear to be changing my mind on this one.

To some people with BPD, it feels like they are in hell. If "MANAGEMENT" is possible, if the pain is reduced, for them maybe thats all that matters?

Makes sense.

I guess bpd is a lot like diabetes then. You need to accept it and learn to manage it. People with diabetes learn to manage their illness by taking insulin drugs, exercise and diet (though I suggest that this is not a great analogy because one illness is physical illness and the other is an emotional pain illness.

However, Even if (and I say even if) there is no cure for bpd, you can still achieve a meaningful and fulfilling life.

It also depends a lot about individual circumstances such as willingness to change and the help and resources available. I know with bipolar disorder that it is not curable but can be remitted. Some people have one episode and never again in their lifes while others have chronic symptoms. The illnesses of both bpd and bipolar affect each individual differently in both substance and severity.

great minds think alike pretty much what ive put but yours has no waffle can you tell im doing a law degree lol

OMG Shawn, I am just finished doing a law degree, wow, we are alike LOL.

[shawnm339]

I take Thyroxine every day and apart from a blood test every six months I do my own treatment...wasn't the best analogy but made sense in that I'll never be cured but I have learned to look after myself with the GP's support....meant I couldn't go in the Army due to being on medication looking back I had to change my whole life and mindset to who I wanted to be....BPD is now asking the same of me I need to change who I am.....I'm only first year law just about to start my second year I love it so far...I'm 34 and doing a degree!!!

[icu_baby]

I take Thyroxine every day and apart from a blood test every six months I do my own treatment...wasn't the best analogy but made sense in that I'll never be cured but I have learned to look after myself with the GP's support....meant I couldn't go in the Army due to being on medication looking back I had to change my whole life and mindset to who I wanted to be....BPD is now asking the same of me I need to change who I am.....I'm only first year law just about to start my second year I love it so far...I'm 34 and doing a degree!!!

Good on you matey for doing what you love. 34 is not old at all, I know some 40 year olds that just started there degree. I am 29 myself and just finished. I wanted to be in the police but my mental illness has kept me out. Maybe that is a good thing that we couldn't get into the police force/army, who knows.

[shawnm339]

I've only just started to realise that my life has actually been a mental illness, and you're probably right I'd have messed it up like all my other jobs or not stuck at it....

[foreverborderline]

ALL I CAN SAY I GUESS IS ALTHOUGH I DO NOT BELIEVE THERE IS A CURE FOR BPD I DO SEE PEOPLE GET BETTER , IT MAKES ME ANGRY BECAUSE I AM DYING HERE. NOT JUST EMOTIONALLY BUT REALLY DYING FROM MY ADDICTION TO GLASS/METH/SPEED AND MY SELF DESTRUCTIVENESS. MAYBE I HAVE A SLIGHT CHANCE BUT ONLY SLIGHT.

I HOPE I AM WRONG ABOUT MY BELIEF THAT BPD CANNOT BE CURED AND YOU ALL DO FIND HELP AND HAPPINESS.. I KNOW I NEVER WILL.

[angel tears]

Hi

I believe that recovery is a personal issue, what we accept as good enough and then we can be proud of what we achieve. I have so far spent just over 3 years in group therapy with added individual sessions and i can say that already:

My anger is so much better under control, not perfect but not so much rage and plate smashing

I have longer periods without self harming

I am starting to really feel emotions

I am beginning to grieve for my own losses in childhood etc

Its building my self esteem

Helping me to be able to relate to people and build healthier relationships

I dont feel as suicidal

I take no medication now

I am proud of this. Will i ever fully recover????. who can say

Will i give up?..... No, Never. But i do hear your pain too, i feel that way myself sometimes.

Its a long hard road to recovery, we can either take responsibility to help ourselves get better or not.... i know which route i am taking.

I hope that you can find a way out of the darkness ((((fb))))

[BPDlkeme]

Hi guys,

Firstly, I agree with staff!This is an interesting topic.what do we mean by cured!, in medicine they do not talk of cure!they talk of treatment! however, I have not self-harmed for two years, said F**k it, I have a right to happiness as anyone!and Im not doin this anymore!So, I dont fulfill that criteria, but I would have to agree with the previous commentators as to whendo you really get over BPD? Lately, I discovered intuitively (ok, with a bit of intoxification involved!) that to get to the real issues I would have to face some painful stuff in my past!, i.e probably like the rest of you, in my everyday life I am a problem-solver, etc, etc, but in my personal life, its difficult!

[foreverborderline]

I take Thyroxine every day and apart from a blood test every six months I do my own treatment...wasn't the best analogy but made sense in that I'll never be cured but I have learned to look after myself with the GP's support....meant I couldn't go in the Army due to being on medication looking back I had to change my whole life and mindset to who I wanted to be....BPD is now asking the same of me I need to change who I am.....I'm only first year law just about to start my second year I love it so far...I'm 34 and doing a degree!!!

See what I mean, some people get better and live happy and productive lives and then there is me , lost and fading and will never get better.

I am 35 and at 34 was in school myself trying to be a drug counselor and a doctor but I FAILED and now all is hopeless. Glad you are getting better and your life is full and happy, at least someone's is.