roxy222 Posted November 1, 2010 Report Share Posted November 1, 2010 I also believe this would bully and bullying is thrown around all to easily. The people who use this forum have the ability to block messages, posts, threads etc from people who they dont like/dont get on with. This being said i would find it difficult for someone to be bullied. but like iv already said its not just about whoever people are deciding to target, its about the whole culture, and how that looks to the whole forum, how many people dont post for fear of the same attacks with no intervention, how many people have the same problem as the poster and then judge themselves harshly because of the viciousness they see leveled at that person. it seems to be far to easy for people here to throw their spite at others without anyone saying hang on a minute thats not acceptable and without ever being expected to be responsible for the effect of their calousness Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ruth24 Posted November 1, 2010 Report Share Posted November 1, 2010 I also believe this would bully and bullying is thrown around all to easily. The people who use this forum have the ability to block messages, posts, threads etc from people who they dont like/dont get on with. This being said i would find it difficult for someone to be bullied. but like iv already said its not just about whoever people are deciding to target, its about the whole culture, and how that looks to the whole forum, how many people dont post for fear of the same attacks with no intervention, how many people have the same problem as the poster and then judge themselves harshly because of the viciousness they see leveled at that person. it seems to be far to easy for people here to throw their spite at others without anyone saying hang on a minute thats not acceptable and without ever being expected to be responsible for the effect of their calousness You assume no action has been taken, but that is not usually the case. The staff take bullying very seriously Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joshua Posted November 1, 2010 Report Share Posted November 1, 2010 Well a few points here - There will always be something about a forum, or a place or a person that someone doesent like. As adults we have to deal with these things. Some will do this by avoiding, some by challenging, some by expressing their feelings etc etc. You dont know what goes on behind the scenes you seem to assume nothing. There will always be issues here and on other forums where people simply disagree or dont get on. This is not to say it has to turn into bullying or abuse. As i said earlier this is very difficult with the ability to block people here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
roxy222 Posted November 1, 2010 Report Share Posted November 1, 2010 like iv already said im not assuming nothing has been done, i know staff send pms, but like iv already said this clearly doesnt make much difference in some cases, because the same people attack the same people again and again, and because staff rarely ever intervene publicly it leaves it looking like the bullies are free to do as they please (and effectively they are if nothing is changingan they dont listen to staff pms) which effects everyone not just the person its getting aimed at that day Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ruth24 Posted November 1, 2010 Report Share Posted November 1, 2010 like iv already said im not assuming nothing has been done, i know staff send pms, but like iv already said this clearly doesnt make much difference in some cases, because the same people attack the same people again and again, and because staff rarely ever intervene publicly it leaves it looking like the bullies are free to do as they please (and effectively they are if nothing is changingan they dont listen to staff pms) which effects everyone not just the person its getting aimed at that day If somebody feels they are being bullied and nothing is being done, it can be very healthy to take a stand and block the person. Feeling you have done something to protect yourself can be very empowering. This site is not a nanny state Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
roxy222 Posted November 1, 2010 Report Share Posted November 1, 2010 like iv already said im not assuming nothing has been done, i know staff send pms, but like iv already said this clearly doesnt make much difference in some cases, because the same people attack the same people again and again, and because staff rarely ever intervene publicly it leaves it looking like the bullies are free to do as they please (and effectively they are if nothing is changingan they dont listen to staff pms) which effects everyone not just the person its getting aimed at that day If somebody feels they are being bullied and nothing is being done, it can be very healthy to take a stand and block the person. Feeling you have done something to protect yourself can be very empowering. This site is not a nanny state you are missing the point. like iv already said so many times now it is not just about the person who is feeling under attack, its about the many others who read that, see such bitchyness again and again and are too afraid to post for fear of the same thing, its about how unprotected people end up feeling, which is v obvious within the culture here, and not at all condunctive of support bullying is serious issue, and a culture of bullying is something that is taken very seriously within other areas of life, and often within workplaces/schools etc it is made publicly clear that such behaviour is unacceptable and will be dealt with seriuous but here, where people are vulnerable, public the only thing done is occassionally, afetr the damage is done, a post gets deleted. maybe if staff made it more publicly clear that bullying was unacceptable then people may not go around scapegoating others as if its a daily activity, and then the whole forum would be protected from such insidious, subtle digs that set off so many problems here Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joshua Posted November 1, 2010 Report Share Posted November 1, 2010 You are trying to compare one situation to another and it really doesent fit for me. Say im in a job and someone is picking on me/bullying me. They are the manager i am the worker and im scared of loosing my job if i say anything as i have a family blah blah. This situation is awful as you can just walk away, you cant report them etc Here on the other hand you can walk away, You can block them, You can avoid them and you can go to the staff team. Bullying is something that is continious and ongoing as far as my understanding goes... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
roxy222 Posted November 1, 2010 Report Share Posted November 1, 2010 how many times do i have to say this, its not just about the person being bullied, its about how this effects everyone, how it massively takes away from the fact that its supposed to be about support Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joshua Posted November 2, 2010 Report Share Posted November 2, 2010 And life is about moving past negative experiences and dealing with conflict and situations that arise. There may be a few people here who you do not get on with but there will also be many that you do, again a reflection of life. Im not saying its easy for everyone esspecially those with low confidence and further complicated by mental health issues but it is a reality of life. Those that you label as bully's will also have issues and need help and support. We can all only do our best to get through individually and as a group. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wonderstar Posted November 2, 2010 Report Share Posted November 2, 2010 ignore it and it will go away. thats what staff keep repeating in this thread. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warrior Princess Posted November 2, 2010 Report Share Posted November 2, 2010 When you are bullied online you have the advantage of choosing not to read, putting people on ignore, and avoiding their threads. With every situation that is difficult there is an opportunity to learn something. Face to face we don't have an ignore button. You can use these situations as golden opportunities to practice coping strategies that will be useful in the "Real world" People often refer to a "Safe place" online. Some deem this to be a place where they are wrapped in plastic bubble wrap and protected from every snide remark. But what really is a safe place? Is there a safe place to make mistakes? Screw up? get it wrong? If you don't have those opportunities how can you learn to better yourself? There will always be "Trolls" in this world and you can't change that. What you can change, is how you react (or choose not to react) to those people. The power and control is really in your hands. WP as you have just washed yours of all responsibility. not that you're a bully. as a mod though you are a safe-guarder. the police take on-line bullying very seriously. they dont tell you to just ignore it and it will go away. I also do not ignore it. I'm an advocate against any kind of bullying and always have been. Trust me if those lines are crossed on this forum things are done about it. However, you can't always rely on others to do things for you. You have to take personal responsibility. That is what I was saying in my post. I am far from the police. I'm a volunteer peer supporter who always seeks to help others improve themselves. If you keep going back to the same threads, put yourself in the same places, argue back with people who hurt you over and over and over again, Reply to their e mails, not block them or avoid them, then you are really allowing yourself to be bullied! Not saying you are responsible of someone blatently attacks you, but if you keep going back to them, and ignore well meaning advice, then you are making yourself a victim of cyber abuse. You have choices and if you choose not to make them you can hardly blame a moderator or the police. WP Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warrior Princess Posted November 2, 2010 Report Share Posted November 2, 2010 but staff dont do anything about bullying here, the offical line is allways to sort it out yourself or ignore the person, which sometimes is gd advice but sometimes not. everyone vulnerable here, but some are sometimes more so, and certain situations would benefit from staff offically doing something about the bullying, like if its many people ganging up on one, if its someone having a go ast someone in crisis, someone having a go at a v young member, people spreading lies or rumours,people v visabley using the rep system to get at certain people. staff do a really great job of intervening when someone breaks a rule (and really great job in other ways too), but there are plenty of ways of bullying people without breaking the rules and clearly that goes on here. and it doesnt just effect the person whose being bullied it effects the whole forum, how many people do not post for support for fear of being treated in the same way because they dont see staff stepping in. How do you know that the staff do "nothing"? I can't count how many posts I've had to remove because they were personal attacks, or how many people I've had to send personal messages about it and I have not been a moderator that long. I also have helped research misuse of the rep system against at least one member and have had to warn and ban others. It's easy to jump to conclusions about what the staff do or don't but unless you are one of the staff you can't really know. For confidentiality reasons we don't blatently say "Oh I banned so and so, or warned who se whatsit". We actually don't make any of it public at all! Just because you don't see things openly being discussed doesn't mean that nothing is happening. WP Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warrior Princess Posted November 2, 2010 Report Share Posted November 2, 2010 I just wanted some of you to know a little about my history so that you can know where I am coming from on this issue. About 15 or so years ago I use to play an online role playing game. I had a falling out with some people in a local "gang of thugs" in the game and they proceeded to bully me in the game and out of it via e mail and IMs and on the forums. They saw a picture of me, had a go at my looks, said horrible things about me, tormented me terribly and I would spend many hours crying at the keyboard yet I did nothing about it! I knew about the ignore feature and how to block people but I chose not to. Heck I sometimes IMed them! I argued back and forth on forums and e mails, each time ending in tears and hardship, torturing myself over and over by going to the same places and threads where they hung out and putting myself in their path. It pushed me almost to the verge of suicide. 15 years later I look back and wonder why I let it all get to me. Who were they? I never even layed eyes on them. for all I knew they were a bunch of pimple faced kids with no lives and not worth knowing. I'm not even in contact with a single one of them now and they mean nothing at all to me. How could I let such people almost rob my kids of a mother and my husband of a wife? Why did I not protect myself and use the tools available to me that were so obviously waiting to protect me? I had shed so many tears over absolutely nothing! and now that I'm older I feel it was all a waste. So my dear friends here, when I advise you to use those tools I am not just talking out my ass for the sake of it. I speak from very heartfelt and deeply hurt experience. I do not want you to suffer as I did. I want you to learn how to keep yourselfs safe. As a moderator here I can try to protect you on this forum as much as I am able, but I can't keep you safe on the rest of the internet or offline unless I share with you what I learnt from my own cyber bulling experience. To keep silent on that and simply ban all your bullies would be to do you a grave diservice. WP Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Data Posted November 2, 2010 Report Share Posted November 2, 2010 The problem with ignoring people is.... you still see their posts. It just says something like "there is a post from X who you have chosen to ignore". And you have a link to click on to see the post anyway. You could just leave it, but that link is just like a box which is marked "do not open" or a red button which is marked "do not press". You just gotta click it... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Villan Posted November 2, 2010 Report Share Posted November 2, 2010 no one HAS to click on an ignore post, or join in with an argument... they CHOOSE to do so... if a person feels that they HAVE to, then could that be an indication of an issue that may need to be worked through ? and isnt that one of the points of this place... identify and work through stuff... i know that when i first joined here i used to get all caught up in the arguments - but i dont anymore... i dont want to, i dont need to and i consider that to be part of my progress in my recovery... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joshua Posted November 2, 2010 Report Share Posted November 2, 2010 no one HAS to click on an ignore post, or join in with an argument... they CHOOSE to do so... if a person feels that they HAVE to, then could that be an indication of an issue that may need to be worked through ? and isnt that one of the points of this place... identify and work through stuff... i know that when i first joined here i used to get all caught up in the arguments - but i dont anymore... i dont want to, i dont need to and i consider that to be part of my progress in my recovery... Well said. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slit Posted November 2, 2010 Report Share Posted November 2, 2010 I agree but am not sure roxy222 meant this. Have thought about what roxy222's point is but I can't think of any solution. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Villan Posted November 2, 2010 Report Share Posted November 2, 2010 wasn't roxy's point the effect that arguments have on people here so... if we all work together to reduce (cos we can never get rid of) the number of arguments that flare up here then surely what roxy is (very validly) pointing out becomes less of a problem... cause and effect... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Data Posted November 2, 2010 Report Share Posted November 2, 2010 The other thing with ignoring posts is... you want to know what they are saying about you. If the posts are saying something derogatory about you thats just not fair or not true, you want to be able to deny it. Otherwise, by contributing to the topic but not responding to that post, people might assume that the derogatory things are true. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slit Posted November 2, 2010 Report Share Posted November 2, 2010 Chitma I think that is the only solution. Data I don't think if someone says something horrible it is true unless denied. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Data Posted November 2, 2010 Report Share Posted November 2, 2010 Data I don't think if someone says something horrible it is true unless denied. But you would say that because you are a criminal, I know that you burgle people's houses, and most criminals are liars. .... only joking :lol: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rigger77 Posted November 2, 2010 Report Share Posted November 2, 2010 1.. i dont post anymore.. 2 i only reply to threads via p/m.. 3 i lock all my update's.. 4 any negative feedback will be copy and pasted to a member of staff. am not bothering with the rep system as i think this has brought out the critic in a lot of people and over time have become to have an impact on there state of mind.. ie if they get a pos they feel good, if they get a few neg's tend to go off open anpother post about something that depresses them. but i feel the only way i can stop being targeted and depresses by proxe is to stick by those 4 rules. allthough i have 1'st hand experience of the way staff deal with such issue's and might i ad quite fairly that they are doing there job.. the problem is there not seen by the rest of the forum to be doing .. arakis was onto something when he mentioned about a 2 hour ban to calm down.. i feel that if you had those rules and a sin bin to publicly announce who has been banned for 1 hour would give some comfort to the oppressed and they wouldn't feel like no one has noticed what has happened. just a thought .. wat you think? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slit Posted November 2, 2010 Report Share Posted November 2, 2010 Data I don't think if someone says something horrible it is true unless denied. But you would say that because you are a criminal, I know that you burgle people's houses, and most criminals are liars. .... only joking Now I see your point! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slit Posted November 2, 2010 Report Share Posted November 2, 2010 1.. i dont post anymore.. 2 i only reply to threads via p/m.. 3 i lock all my update's.. 4 any negative feedback will be copy and pasted to a member of staff. am not bothering with the rep system as i think this has brought out the critic in a lot of people and over time have become to have an impact on there state of mind.. ie if they get a pos they feel good, if they get a few neg's tend to go off open anpother post about something that depresses them. but i feel the only way i can stop being targeted and depresses by proxe is to stick by those 4 rules. allthough i have 1'st hand experience of the way staff deal with such issue's and might i ad quite fairly that they are doing there job.. the problem is there not seen by the rest of the forum to be doing .. arakis was onto something when he mentioned about a 2 hour ban to calm down.. i feel that if you had those rules and a sin bin to publicly announce who has been banned for 1 hour would give some comfort to the oppressed and they wouldn't feel like no one has noticed what has happened. just a thought .. wat you think? I think it is a bad idea and you weren't posting anymore anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lily-Bee Posted November 2, 2010 Report Share Posted November 2, 2010 Name and shame people? Why not put them in the middle of town square and throw rotten eggs at them? lol My point being I think thats a terrible idea. Why do you guys need to see people being punished?Isnt knowing staff is on it enough? Things like naming publically have a feel of wanting revenge to it.Also this is not a court and we do not judge,we only try to keep things running smoothly which involves sometimes warning people etc. Lilly Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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