Women Blamed For Rape

[nimz]

Thats my problem i spend my life kicking myself for doing it. But this was 2 years ago and i was young and too trusting, now i dont trust anyone.

[liberty]

i think that this can be an extremely touchy subject for a lot of us. but one thing is definite. you CAN NOT be blamed for being raped!

[liberty]

OK, just a quick after thought. The word rape itself, means there was no consent, therefore durrr!

[Swan]

liberty isn't part of the 'blame the victim' argument that by putting herself in a position of vulnerability she (or he, never forget) was impliedly consenting to sex or even inviting it - leading to the specious and wholly false argument that 'no doesn't necessarily mean no'

The ideas around this issue are complex, even though the basic principle IS simple - No does mean no and being vulnerable, whether deliberately or accidentally is NOT an invitation to being attacked, whether for your sex, race or religion

I do think though that enough people really do believe these false arguments that to change the status quo we really need to deconstruct them fairly thoroughly in order to show how weak they are.

[realscape]

I haven't caught up wtih all the posts on this thread properly but just wanted to say:

Good news that Gary Glitter has got what is overdue to him. According to News of the World, Vietnam authorities have already got enuf evidence to give him life, and probably death by firing squad. Its a shame they couldn't have done it before he harmed even more children. I hope he dies slowly and painfully.

[Swan]

fs is fast and supposed to be relatively pain free. (although probably very frightening if you are a coward . . .)

Five shots simultaneously to the body and then one at close range to the head.

Will not even begin to raise questions about this issue :blink:

[liberty]

Swan, you are correct that it was a discussion about blaming the victim, i suppose i am too emotional to discuss this topic at the moment in a rational way. Maybe i can come back to it at another time. im sorry if my posts offended anyone

[realscape]

Thank you to everyone for supportive comments about what happened. The time when I got taken off the street was clearly rape but before and after that, because of my heavy drinking and drug use, there were many other times where people took advantage of me or I put myself about so its kind of hard for me to blame everyone else for the violations of my body.

I think that it is unequivocally wrong that any person should be attacked because they are weak or when they are unable to defend themselves, and a society that tolerates that or believes that it is acceptable is damaged. But on a purely pragmatic level there is a point at which we are responsible for our own safety, and to willingly and recklessly give that up is unwise.

I agree Swan.

A lot of men are sexual predators and that doesn't make it right but its a fact. I think its outrageous but its a symptom of our fucked up society. I remember a few years ago there was this guy who raped a woman on a tube station, he got caught because he was spotted by security on CCTV. She was paralytic pissed and didn't even know about it until they told her the next day. Afterwards, when he was caught, he said he thought all his Christmases had come at once when he found her. WTF!

But shit, what is happening to men? The people who do this are other human beings - our dads, brothers, sons, uncles, grandfathers, nephews, work colleagues. They're not alien monsters. We have to try to understand them somehow even though we don't want to, otherwise society can't solve the problem. Something has gone far wrong and there are so many grey areas. These acts are being committed by our fellow human beings and we have more similarities to another human than we do differences. We surely have a moral obligation to ourselves and future generations to try and understand.

I find it massively offensive to be warned not to go out in certain areas or skimpy clothes. Equally as offensive as to be told not to use your mobile phone at the bus stop or not to leave things in your car. Its like, the authorities are not trying to SOLVE the problem of the criminals, they using the FEAR to CONTROL the innocent public. They should be warning people not to commit rape, steal phones or rob cars. Instead they do the exact opposite. Its fucking wrong man and its upside down. Its a control of the masses and keep women second class issue. Conspiracy theory coming on......

[Swan]

But shit, what is happening to men? The people who do this are other human beings - our dads, brothers, sons, uncles, grandfathers, nephews, work colleagues. They're not alien monsters. We have to try to understand them somehow even though we don't want to, otherwise society can't solve the problem. Something has gone far wrong and there are so many grey areas. These acts are being committed by our fellow human beings and we have more similarities to another human than we do differences. We surely have a moral obligation to ourselves and future generations to try and understand.

Sh** I still can't get this quote thing to work!

Earlier today I wondered what the response would be if a large and completely anonymous survey was carried out among MEN asking them if they'd ever committed a rape or sexual assault. I think the answers would be very interesting - probably a lot less than 10% would say yes, although probably at least 50%, if you asked the woman involved, would have actually committed something of the sort.

This has really brought up some pretty bad feelings and memories for me. I really believe quite strongly that we need to analyse and understand the language and perceptions that individuals hold about their own acts, and if possible it would be great if someone would help keep this debate going. I think I need to take a break from it for a while, although whether I can is another matter.

[FleeingFox]

Swan, male monsters have existed since the dawn of our species, nothing has suddenly happened to or with men. More people are coming forward these days, this is showing how often it actually takes place, but things have always been this way.

PLEASE, will you all stop putting all the blame solely on the male monsters, women have drugged and raped males, I have been drugged and sexually abused by a group of women on a hen night, they left me in a pool of my own blood in an alley when they were done with me, they should also be shot, women can be really sick disgusting filth too, yet they never seem to be discussed?

[pandaprincess]

Fox: I agree ~ there are some less than 'pleasant' women out there too. And these things can happen in relationships too. I used to know a guy who's 'respective other half' used to get pissed and come home and beat the crap out of him. She was a MONSTER and she'd sexually abuse him, and make fun of him ~ even one time while I was there, she kicked him to the kitchen floor and poured washing powder all over him. It was a power thing with her: she wanted to be in control, and the only way she seemed to think she could achieve this was in crushing and humiliating the poor man...

He had baggage of his own: his wife had taken her own life ~ and this bitch destroyed ANY trace of her by burning all pictures, letters, even items of clothing that had belonged to her. She knew fine well that he'd been abused all through his childhood and early teens ~ and she'd deliberately bring the subject up, and tell him that he was weak and that he never tried to stop any of it. She'd say vicious things like: "Yeah, YOU really loved your daddy didn't you? Regularly." She'd question his sexuality and call him a 'fag' ~ then she'd beat him til he couldn't walk, and torture and molest him. I HATED that cowbag

Women are just as capable of being bastards as men. Men tend to do better at it because of the obvious physical advantage: but I think women do it, because they think they can get away with it. I dont know if these people are really evil at heart ~ or if they're so fcuked up and damaged that they feel the need to take it out on somebody else. I dont understand it. How can it make you feel powerful and in control, if you have to beat/rape/humiliate other people? I've read into the psychology of people who do these things and I still dont understand it...

[Swan]

Fox my first paragraph was quoting realscape's post.

Personally I think that one reason for the complexity of this issue is that all men are NOT aggressors and all women are NOT victims.

From my own experience I'm tempted to quip that 'behind every bad man stands a worse mother' but perhaps that's just a cheap shot from personal experience.

[Bluegrass]

Rape is never the victims fault -

[FleeingFox]

Fox my first paragraph was quoting realscape's post.

Personally I think that one reason for the complexity of this issue is that all men are NOT aggressors and all women are NOT victims.

From my own experience I'm tempted to quip that 'behind every bad man stands a worse mother' but perhaps that's just a cheap shot from personal experience.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Innit Swan, but, I'm known as a bad man by people who don't actually know me, I've heard that expression myself spat venomously in my face, the twats had no idea I was raised by state institutions and had no contact at all with my parents for 11.5 years of my childhood, our mother hated us and tried to murder myself and my elder brother, this was after 4years of brutality and locking us in the stairwell cupboard, her murder attempt was discovered and we were taken away from her, she was a sick and vicious monster, in truth, I despise every single fading memory I have of her.

While most men were suckling on their mommys tittys we were fighting desperately to stay alive, fuck people who spit that shit in my face, they are less than pathetic in my view, and they show it all by themselves, the wise and learned see them for what they are, the rest of the people are the sheep of the pathetic, they mean nothing to me..........

[TheChangeling]

i said before i say again NOONE deserves that,ever

[paddypotty]

I agree,neither man nor woman nor child.

Patricia

[TheChangeling]

i was raped by my father adn abused by my mother maybe i should hateEVERYONE?????????????

[paddypotty]

the hate resolves nothing,I was sexually abused by my older brother and uncle,ahd the shit kicken out of me by mum and srarely my dad,we have to find a way to let it go or it will swallow us whole.

Patricia

[TheChangeling]

It's ok pp i dont hate everyone ,,,,,,,,,,,not even my mother any more, but i have to hate my dad,

[Swan]

Just to bring the thread back to its beginning -

The issue was about women being BLAMED for being raped

not about them DESERVING to be raped

Just thought I'd mention that because there is a difference although it is very easy for it to be obscured.

Would like to say something to make it better for everyone, but i'm tired and sad and cannot find the words

[TheChangeling]

yes ther is a difference but mostly the debate goes the way of blame and therefore eventually ppl think it IS deserved,,, it's late my head is a mess, sorry if that makses no sense