Hope For The Hopeless *religious*

[Des]

Hi Guys. I hope you're all doing well, and I really hope that I don't upset anyone too much because I haven't yet gone away.

First, I have to stress that Christianity{not a church}, is very real. Jesus wasn't just a myth. All good historians will tell you that indeed there was an actual Jesus Christ who claimed to be God and was crucified. There are tons of historical documents, manuscripts, and every day archeologists find more evidence of the authenticity of the Bible. Really, research if you don't believe me. There is actually more evidence to support the existence of Jesus Christ than there is of the existence of Shakespeare or even Napolean.

With all the evidence there is now to support the Bible, you have to have more faith to believe in evolution. The Bible is actually now regarded by most historians, religious or atheist, as the most accurate historical document.

The reason I posted this was not because I want any of you to adhere to any kind of religion, or church, or even moral law for that matter. I have found a very real, very meaningful, very alive Savior that has brought me through my own suffering and I just wanted to share that truth with anyone who's had enough of this darkness.

Yes, Jesus does forgive anyone of any sin. There is no sin too bad that the blood of God cannot cover. I, for one am very thankful for that! I know too well what I am capable of.

The moral law of the Bible, was actually not intended for anyone to commit their lives to. It is Jesus, -and only Jesus that anyone is supposed to follow if they want to accept this gift He offers.

On the contrary, being a Christ follower does not encourage guilt, it sets you free from guilt. While I was still lost I had a real bad, and real destructive way of always dwelling on the bad things I ever did. I carried around guilt until I was buried in it. It is the knowledge that ALL those sins have been washed away, and will not be remembered again that sets me free. I can't explain this the way I would like to. -Mere words.

It is the abuse of the Bible, by false christians that say or do differently.

I know that I didn't cause the state I was in. That was a result of the abuse and neglect of others in my life. But I also knew that I was not without sin myself.

Alot, - if not most of my problem was my inability to forgive my mother, father,...etc. I lived every day in a rage and hated myself with a passion for even coming from my mother, and having any resemblance to her. I was literally sick to my stomache for what I was {if you know what I mean}. Sorry, can't say that that it ever did me any good. It dragged me down.But knowing that wasn't enough. I was trapped in that hell. I couldn't get out. O.K., so someone hurt you. Someone obviously hurt you bad. Why then do you want to drag on the nightmare for the rest of your life? Isn't there any part of you that wants to be able to just let it all go and live in peace for once?

I know I did. It seemed like every breath I took hurt. I lived and breathed hate for my mother.It devasted me more than she did.

In any case, I didn't just stop hating her. It was only through the power of the Holy Spirit that I came to see her for the weak and vulnerable person that she really is. Now, though my mother has not changed, I focus on praying for her to be releived of her own pain. I don't just 'do' this, I really mean it. That, in itself, is a huge burden lifted off of me. I'm not angry or afraid anymore! If you knew me before, you'd understand why this is such a blessing to me.

As far as the priests who molest children,..etc., I know for certain that no REAL, AUTHENTIC, TRUE, Christ follower would ever hurt anyone. Anyone could claim to be anything they want, but Jesus said that you'll know a tree from his fruit. No real Christian can hurt anyone. Why? Because it would hurt themselves to do that. Trust me.

Also, "religion" does not save anyone. Jesus does. Following the law does not save anyone. Jesus does. We are all on a level playing ground with Him. He does not play favorites. There is more rejoicing in heaven for one sinner who has been redeemed, than a righteous person who has always been righteous.

Jesus said, "I came not for the righteous, but I came to seek and save that which was lost." You need to realize that the whole point of Jesus' death and resurrection was to be able to take the punishment for all sin{His body became sin} for all men, so that whoever would allow Him to wash them clean and give them new life, He could do that. This does not mean just taking away anything bad you ever did, but that means that sin and death will no longer have power over you. Because He is righteous He covers you with Himself. Not you being perfect, He did it all for you. You can never ever be lost to Him once you've accepted Him, and you are no longer stuck trying to follow any law or religion. He lives within you and guides you.

He is not needed by the self-righteous, but the lost.

I can't say who's going be in heaven or not. That's not my place. If a person asked forgiveness, and meant it, and gave their life over to Jesus, He is faithful and just to forgive. It's really unfortunate for anyone to intentionally suffer in this life, and then drop into hell to avoid someone who may or may not be in heaven. Even if this person was in heaven, you would no longer hate him/her if you were there too.

I ask you not to pass Him off because of what anybody else has done. Please.

You'll miss the best thing that could ever happen to you if you do. Don't let the sins of others stop you from finding peace and fulfillment.

Now, as far as the Old Testament, yes God was full of wrath. That's the whole reason for Jesus dying. God's wrath was then poured down on Him instead of mankind. If you were to really carefully study the Bible, you would see the many many chances that were given to the people before God ever punished anyone. Even in punishing, it's amazing to see the wrath of God turn into compassion with repentance. He also always gives a chance for people to repent before acting. Do we not throw people in jail for the best interest of the communities? What would happen if there was no consequences? That would be a punishment itself. Can you imagine the anarchy we'd have to endure? There were reasons for that punishment. It is a complete misinterpretation of the Bible to say that He likes to punish.

God is a holy God. We can't understand what that really means. He doesn't just like good, He actually is pure goodness.

God never created man as sinners either. He made man and woman in His image. That doesn't mean we physically look like Him. That means that we were created to be able to make our own decisions. The entire purpose for us being created was to love God and be loved by Him. What kind of love forces you to love?If He made us without the abilty to make a choice, then our love for Him would be meaningless.We were given a mind to choose. Unfortunately, Adam and Eve used that freedom and disobeyed God and turned away from Him. Not the other way around. You have to understand His purity to understand why the relationship was then hindered. But God did not stop loving them, He then began the plan of redemption once and for all. How? With His own blood.

Because of the work of Christ on the cross, we can now be reconciled, no strings attached. No work on your part, just by receiving Him.

No person who's been born again regrets that decision. No person who's made that decision has ever wished to go back to their life before.

Once again, being good doesn't make you born again. You're only born again when you've asked Jesus to be your personal Lord and Savior. When you've confessed Him with your mouth, and believed on Him with your heart.

I'm sorry for taking up space, but I really just wish for you all the same peace as I've been blessed with. If I could do it for you, just to prove to you, I would. I'm really sorry that I can't. You have to do it.

If you don't agree with waht I'm saying, kindly disregard this. I'm talking to those who are hungry and tired, if there be any.

Today is the day for salvation. If you hear His voice, harden not your heart.

"Come unto me, all ye that labour and are heavy laden, and I will give thee rest. Take my yoke upon you, and learn of me; for I am meek and lowly in heart: and ye shall find rest for your souls."{Matt.11:28-29}

If anyone wants to know more, they can check out www.oneplace.com to check out their ministries {Adrian Rogers and David Jeremiah are especially good}, or maybe try www.thestreamtv.com for more support from other Christ followers.

Grace and love to you all. You are dearly loved.

[Des]

Hi Rachel1!

I tried to send you a private message, but I have no idea what I'm doing. Just learning how to use this thing. If my message never got through, maybe you could let me know how I can get ahold of you, or I'll be here 4-ever trying to figure it out.

Peace!

Also, for Flora:

The most famous thing the adversary tries to do to a Christian is steal their faith. It is vitally important for you to know that if you have repented, confessed Jesus as your Lord and Savior who lived, died and raised again, if you confessed that to Him with your mouth, and if there was a time that you know for certain that you prayed that prayer in Jesus' name, you are saved! If you're not certain that you've done that, or you can't remember when you did, just pray it again.

Remember, once you've done this there is nothing anyone can do to "pluck you from the hand of God" nor is there anything that anyone can do to take His love for you away. Once a child of God, always a child of God. You can never loose your salvation.

Sometimes when we have been starving ourselves by not reading the Bible,

God will push you to do that because that's your road map. The God-breathed directions for you.It is also where you find your strength and power to defeat Satan. Our battle is a spiritual battle. There is a real force trying to bring you down. When we allow ourselves to slack off in that area, which I do often unfortunately, we start to feel distanced from God. That's how we know that God wants us to press on and get closer to Him. Kind of like how when you have a toothache you know you need to seek a dentist. The discomfort causes you to seek Him more dilligently. God may be calling you closer.

If this is not the case, and you have been faithfully in the Word of God, you've confessed all the sin that you're aware of, you've asked Him to show you of any that you might be unaware of, and you've been seeking Him on a regular basis,... ask Him. Tell Him you need to feel His presence. Just know that He is there. If you've sought Him out, He is faithful to His Word. "All those who call on the name of the Lord shall be saved." When you call on His name, He moves in and never moves out! You may not feel Him there all the time, but this causes us to examine ourselves. He knows what's best for you. Sometimes these trials are His way of causing us to grow. We can't stay where we are.

Just remember that we walk by faith, and not by sight. He is faithful, God lies not! Read the Bible, and pray, pray, pray!!!

Dear Jesus, I ask you to be with Flora at this time in her walk with you. I ask You to strengthen her and comfort her. Please Lord, if it be Your will, send Your Holy Spirit to reveal Your presence to her again. I pray that You will hold on to her, where she is safe in your arms, and I pray that you would teach her more of Your ways. Please stand her on Your rock of truth, where her foot can never be taken off.

I pray this in the name of Jesus Christ, the Almighty, AMEN.

[samsung]

brassed 2 bits :)

[brassed2bits]

Hey Rach -

Good to see your !!!

No bad feelings I hope!

[michael walker]

Yes, Jesus does forgive anyone of any sin. There is no sin too bad that the blood of God cannot cover. I, for one am very thankful for that! I know too well what I am capable of.

The moral law of the Bible, was actually not intended for anyone to commit their lives to. It is Jesus, -and only Jesus that anyone is supposed to follow if they want to accept this gift He offers.

if the above is true then do you go to hell for not following jesus or will we be forgiven that as well if so then there is no need for hell because surely satan will be in heaven because he has been forgiven and if there is no hell because no one is there then there is no heaven either because you cant have one without the other or was god also satan ?

[bibiddi]

I'm not sure what to think...I am aware of a different thread about how lots of us feel like we are little children and are looking for someone to rescue and protect us...

Also,and its something I'm struggling with.I idealize people who show me any kindness.They become my heroes.

Just another thought.

Sometimes when I'm having a rough day,if I go out and play with the dogs it can put me in a better mood.It doesnt mean that dogs can "cure" me...it just means they are a good distraction.I still have the underlying problems,which need addressing.

[realscape]

I never felt like this site was the same as being in a lunatic asylum until this thread.

[Eva*]

Des,

thanks very much fornot answering my questions. It's very convincing to just ignore questions you don't have answers for.

You seem to be repeating stuff you heard from some christian ideologists. I know that Jesus was a historic person. That doesn't mean he was the son of god just because he said he was. He definitely IS the founder of a religion. Nothing more nothing less.

I can only think it ridiculous to believe there is more prove of his existence than of the existence of Napoleon. What prove do you mean? There were newspapers and printed books around in Napoleons times. There are portraits of him, there are important diplomatic documents bearing his literature. Numerous other famous people met him and wrote about it. He led wars that are recorded in those other countries. If we do believe in the possibility of something about the past being true we have to believe in Napoleons existence I guess. Nothing of it is prove I guess, it's all circumstantial evidence because all those hundreds of people who bear witness of him could have made him up. I never met him personally so it could all be fake. Very probable!!!!!

Many of the stories about Jesus were orally transmitted for decades before being written down, which doesn't make them very acurate. As I said I don't deny the fact of there having been a person called Jesus of Nazareth who was a religious leader and a very charismatic person.

About the rest. The bible definitely is an important historical source, but it's mostly the old testament, not the new one. Anyway, it doesn't really matter. It just annoys me to read thoughtless propagande like this and if your faith would be convincing enough in itself you wouldn't need such arguments anyway.

Flora,

I don't want to shout at you. I think it's sad that you lost touch to something that gave you strength and I'm sorry for you.

I just disagree about one thing you wrote. The thing about the world wars. I think they definitely caused mental illness. The word shellshock was invented for soldiers in the first world war and it was the first time that what we call post traumatic stress was described and treated. War is a very traumatic thing and trauma can cause mental illness.

I really hope you don't mind me writing this. I just thought your comparison a bit strange and can't relate to it. But I guess this topic gets some of us quite emotional and I don't think you're stupid or anything.

[brassed2bits]

Flora,

I noticed your last post about not having your questions answered.

I too noticed that Des has not replied to my scathing posts about his faith. I dont blame him really, since I told him to GO AWAY, but it is noticable that people who spout this kinda stuff tend to relate to their own kind, people who are half way there already,or those who do not put up a fight or show hostilty. Nice and simple then, isn't it, in their own cosy, cushioned, everyone thinks the same kinda world.

I would have had a bit of respect for him if he had acknowledge me directly, but I am not inviting him to do so.

Just noticing that if I had something I was desparate to share, I would have gone for the person who was the most unlikely to receive it, not to the others who wanted to - they would hear it anyway.

Or maybe I am just an awkward sod. Anyway, I agree with you Real, this thread is unfamiliar madness. Going back to my own familiar kinda madness - feel kinda 'normal' there!

[samsung]

no hard feelings...

people.. cut some slack... she said she believes in God.. she didnt say she IS God!!

love you all...

hope you all still love me.... :P

[realscape]

Hey Brassed, I'm right there with you.

Unfortunately, this madness is familiar to me, I encountered it whilst being subjected to my mothers insanity and whilst visiting her countless days in secure mental wards. It is very triggering for me, I shall not be reading this thread any more.

I think this thread should be removed. I think this site should remain free from religion and religious preaching and religious dogma in any form.

[Vicky]

Wow.

How many of you have ever had a problem with me? Honestly, have I ever upset or offended any of you?

Because most of you have just offended me. I was confirmed as a baptist several years ago, and whilst believing in God isn't a cure for me, I believe there's something there. Maybe not to the letter of the bible, but something.

It doesn't bother me in the slightest if other people don't believe it - my whole family and my fiancee are atheists!

But if you're going to be offended by a religious post then don't open it. Simple as that. Everyone has the right to air their views - whatever they are, all of you have that right. But you should do it like adults, politely!

Don't be so rude, have some respect for each other.

[Eva*]

Vicky,

I'm very sorry if I have offended you. It was never my intention. I guess I was on defense mode like many others here and that isn't the most considerate. If you believe in god and it works for you, that is great. I don't like it if people try to missionise (Is the word right? I'm sure it's understandable)

You never tried to do that. You don't say it's a cure either. I'm sure everyone here respects your faith and we wouldn't have been aggressive towards your kind of believe.

Sorry again. I hope you still feel okay here or will again soon.

Eva

[samsung]

i am echoing vicky... but said it already

[michael walker]

rachel

nobody did say she was god but in her first post she stated

I just wanted to share that with you all, and just let you know that He who saved me, is there for you too, if you would receive Him. He can heal you and replenish you. He sheds light into that darkness you're caught in. Please, believe me. I know what it's like to be imprisoned by that darkness, but He sheds His light right into your heart and chases that darkness away. He can save you from your sin and lift off the burden that it layed on you. He forgives.

If anyone wants to receive Him, all you have to do is pray that prayer, or one like it from your heart. He is faithful, and will save all who call on His name. That's His promise, and He never lies. I promise you, you won't be sorry for ever trusting in Him

this got to me as i did pray every night but every night for for 5 years things happened i had faith and that got lost because nobody helped so i dont need someone telling me that if i prayed now that it will be ok and the darkness will be chased away i have lived in a very dark place for a very long time the only people in my life that have ever helped me are myself my wife and kids so how can she ask people to put their trust in him when they have already asked for help and been ignored

and yes everybody has a right to their opinion and when i read a post like this which might i add i am allowed to read no matter weather it is about religion or not then am i not to allowed to voice my opinion too

[Vicky]

Yes you are allowed to voice your opinion. Read back over my post, I said already said that.

What I also said was that you could do it politely, when I read this post it felt too much like Des was being attacked. I've never preached on here and never will, so yeah I can understand why you may not have agreed with this thread.

All I'm asking is for a little bit of respect, rather than feeling like you are trampling all over something which is important to me.

Rach and Eva - thanks

[flora]

Thank you for all your posts guys.

Why should this thread be removed? If there's nothing in it, if you think it's all nonsense, why are you so fired up about it?

You're right about the world wars. It was a stupid comparison. What I meant to say was, just because something is the object of a psychotic delusion, doesn;t mean it isn;t real. Like, I've been an IP on several psych units, where a lot of the patinets had delusions about religion, and about the war. They believed the war was happening now, that Hitler was on his way to get them, things like that. Doesn;t mean the war never happened, just that their illness led them to believe things about it which were not real. Ad the war didn;t cause that person's mental illness, that's what i meant when I said it wasn;t the cause - not that they didn;t cause anybody's mental illness. Sorry, bad analogy.

I'm not going to post on this thread any more, because I don't want to argue with anybody.

But would you reply to someone who was openly hostile and rude? I probably wouldn;t. You wouldn;t be so offensive to anybody else, why to Des, just because he's a Christian? He's not telling you that you have to be a Christian. you can take it or leave it.

I don't agree with what was said about "a christian can never hurt anybody" - of course they can. because they are still people. They repent and are forgiven. I don't know what happens if they don't repent. I don't know who is saved - God does. End of story. If you don't believe in God, why the upset about who is going to heaven? Because if there is no God, surely nobody is?

Hurting other people hurts the person themselves, Christian or not. That is why I feel sorry for my abuser. I can move on, hard as it is. He has to live with himself. I can leave him behind, he is stuck with him. I have forgiven him. Not because I am super-angelic, but because, yes, I am angry with him, yes, I feel absolutely violent towards him, I feel I hate him sometimes. But I love him deep down. he is my father. That might be wrong, and it might be holding me back, but i love my dad. That has nothing to do with Christianity, it is just how I feel.

Flora

[brassed2bits]

Hiya Vicky,

There is a world of difference between you and Des.

There is a world of difference between your sharing of your faith and the way that Des has.

I would like to think that I am tolerant of all people, regardless of colour, race, sexual preference, ability or lack of, etc etc and in a way I admire those who have a genuine faith that I dont have.

But ....... when the post that started all this was directly aimed at me (us) and was evangelical in its nature, and was 8 PARAGRAPHS LONG, WITH A POEM OF A FURTHER 70 ODD LINES LONG, I feel uncomfortable.

It is the difference between a quiet chat and being shouted at through a loudhailer.

I think I have said enough on this subject. Thats it now.

[michael walker]

to be totally honest im glad this post came on as it has given me a say of what i think i havent slagged anyone off except jesus and god but that is my personal feeling i havent slagged des off i just dont agree with some of the things she says and asks us to do and im sure if des was that bothered then she would tell us herself

i myself wouldnt have put a post on here about god as i knew beforehand what sort of a reaction it would get but now that it is here yes i will keep voicing my opinion if i feel i have too

religion to me does not deserve respect as respect has to be earned and doesnt come free

[Vicky]

I'm not asking you to respect god, I'm asking you to respect me

[michael walker]

hi vicky

if i have disrespected you then i am sorry but so far i have been through nearly 30 years of abuse of one kind or another i spent many of those years searching for god in the end he didnt come to me so that is the reason i do not believe but i am not asking anyone else to give up believing im just dont want people preaching to me telling me that if i do ask forgiveness it will come because it hasnt for me or a lot of other people , my gods are now my wife and children as they have helped me more in four years than anyone in my life and my belief and respect is with them

please remember it wasnt about you but your faith michael

[samsung]

:( o well...

[Des]

Hi guys.

No. I didn't go away just yet, and I haven't intentionally ignored anybody either. I have been busy, as I have 6 kids, and my husband is gone back to work.

brassed2bits: If I were only comfortable talking to people who thought the same as me, or believed the same as me, I would never have posted on this sight. I was well aware of the reaction I would get. That doesn't bother me, as I am not here to be popular. I am here to tell the truth and bring the truth to whoever would receive it. Whoever disagrees with me is entitled to. I can't and I wouldn't force my opinions on anyone.

I have to say that I would answer to anyone who was asking questions out of sincerity, and not just an attempt to provoke an argument. People can disagree respectfully. I am not in the business of taking low blows.

Flora: I stand corrected about Christians not being able to hurt anyone. Of course we're still human. What I meant was that true Christians would not deliberately and consciously hurt anybody. When you are born again, your conscience is sensitized.

Please forgive me, as I can't seem to remember who said what here, but as far as Satan being forgiven: I am almost certain that if Satan were to ever sincerely repent, he'd be forgiven too. The fact is he never has and never will. Why? Because pride is blinding. It drives you to insanity. The more you are reprimanded, the more you attack.

I can assure you that I am not crazy. Like I said, a year ago I would have fit right in with you guys. I also don't know what would be considered a cure. If the meaning of cure was to:

1. Not be afraid anymore

2. Not feel the need to lie anymore

3. Not get uncontrollably angry anymore

4. Not be depressed anymore

5. Not seek the attention from others anymore

Well, then I'd have to say that yes my relationship with Jesus was a cure.

I don't know why some of you have sought Jesus before and not been answered, as of yet. I don't pretend to know the mind of God. I only know what the Word of God says, and not even close to what I should know of that either. What I know is that I was also raised in a church that promoted "salvation by works" and that was my problem. It took me to see my utter helplessness before I could come to really trust in Jesus. I used to go to church and that didn't do anything for me either. All I could say is that He made a promise, and that was that "whoever calls upon the name of the Lord shall be saved." "Seek and you shall find, knock and it shall be opened to you. Ask and it will be given." If you don't have faith, and you really want to, it is Jesus who is the author and finisher of our faith. You really want it, ask. If not, then you can't blame Him for you not believing. I really hope that nobody would give up, but "dillegently seek Him" as the Bible says to do. I think that we are all worth the effort to find out truth.

Suebridehead: There are many, many, many reliable references to Jesus from even His enemies, like Roman historians and governors, pagan historians, as well as Jewish references about the life and death of Jesus that have been found in the Talmud, the Dead Sea Scrolls, and the Flavius Josephus. There is archeological evidence that confirms the accuracy of the 4 Gospels and the more research and investigation is done, the more evidence we have to suggest the authenticity of the Bible and the existence of Jesus Christ.

We still have over 5000 existing copies of the Greek New Testament that date back to the first centuries of the early church.

When comparing the Bible with over one hundred thousand letters from Christians, that should be proof in itself.Not to mention the mere fact that up until very recently the date was split as B.C.-before Christ, and A.D.- the year of our Lord. There would have had to have been a number of lunatics if He had not have existed. And yes, I agree with you that this does not prove the Deity of Christ, but it should be a cause for question.

The only thing that I have to say is if you're going to stake your eternity on something, I suggest you at least try to find truth. We can deny truth all we want, but one day the truth will find us, and it's in our own best interest if we find it first. In any case, the truth will set you free!! Why reject something that could bring you satisfaction, meaning, peace, fulfillment, and a huge sense of worth, without at least giving it one last shot?

I won't get into this again, as any seeker can find the truth on this matter themselves.

And I'm most definitely not trying to evangelize the world. The Lord will provide the ripened in the harvest.

Anyway, I have enjoyed talking to you all. And don't worry, I'm not offended by anyone's remarks. We all can say things out of anger when we feel we should be on the defensive.The Lord knows I've said and done much worse. No offense taken. I wish you all the best, I really do. Grace to you all!!

Des. :)

[Vicky]

Don't be upset hunny, I'm sure noone's offended enough to leave or anything, I'm not!! I just wanted to make sure people have a bit more respect in future. Nowt to worry about, we'll all have forgotten this in a couple of days :)

[pip]

Still is all above my head

Pip

x