Abusing Prescribed Medications

[pip]

Yes Flower

You would be taking more tabs

but not 8x the normal dose

Pip

x

[gobbothegoblin]

Jumper, sorry but id have to dissagree.. ok im not as knowledgeable about the type of medication here, but for instance ur comment on the misuse/appropriateness on diazipam isnt excactly correct. Pip is right each case is different, in my case i cant take any other drugs as my whole medication scheme for all 3 of my disorders has to revolve around my cancer treatment. In this case diazipam is the ONLY thing that can help as other meds can interfear with the cancer medication. I know hundreds of others in the same position as me who have to go on one sort of medicatin simply because its the only thing that wont play around with there other meds.

Secondly, addiction to any medication is determind by the type of person takeing it, pip my have addiction issues, even if she can miss medication, as addiction urges are not constant, they can come and go therefore it is unfair to assume this means she or any other does or doesnt have a problem.

I can understand your issue with mal-medication, however having a parent as a doc and a close friend as a psydoc, i know they both have to give alot of consideration on what they give and who they give it to. Weather the medication is suitable is on a person to person level, so therefore giving to different people the same thing could mean that only one of them could get addicted.

If you feel that your personal medication is incorrect or causing addictive effects then that is more than likely to be an issue with yourself and the effect the medication has on you, therefore summing it up and generalising about it, obviously from the contravertial responce really isnt correct.

just a thought.

-dave-

[jumper64]

[

Fine Occassionally its ok,lets not be black and white about it

And yes I agree tehre are lots of diligent doctors out tere and there are equally a number of incompitent doctors out there,evn theGPswork with are told not to prescibe benzo in certain situations,but continue to start people on them,cos its easy and people feel better immediately, and Gps dont care about the long term affetcs,

Pip, again, I havent mentioned the issue of Od on zop,that was never my issue cos it is so safe in that respect- Im referring to the addictive nature of these drugs

Anyways lets agree to differ in opinion,maybe we are all right in some aspects,just anyone considering the ioption of injecting valium (as was the original post) well........

I would be interested in what the "some circumstances for prescibing valium were" in NICE-must look- i cant imagine for it to be given on a regular basis at all,but as an occassional thing,as is safe to take

.

[mrs tree]

My lorazepam I take PRN and find it helpful I don't think it would work as well if i was on a regular dose.

i wouldnt inject not good idea , but like others said sometimes no effect infact i think i've buit up tolerence to zopiclone i take about 8 a day jus to cope im worried im addicted and what effect days it have. i was told that i could be slowly poisoning myself,could that be true, can't im worried today juust curious luv Tabi

As for ODing on zopliclone while ODing may not kill you in my mind it has to be damaging to your body to be regulary taking over the px dose. I don't know how you are been given this many tablets it is negligent in my eyes .You need to do something about this.

I am i belive addcicted to Zopliclone....i get 2 3.75mg tablets a night so when I fight the addiction i can take a half dose...i have been on a half dose for a week and for about 2 years i have never mamaged a nights sleep without at least a half dose my pdoc putting me on them regulary was the biggest mistake he ever made...I don't believe theyhelp me sleep at all just absence of them stop me sleeping

[pip]

Jumper

I agree with you.

Sorry, but I am very black and white.

Pdocs do prescribe these drugs

and on the whole they do it with good intention

and tend to be following NICE or local trust protocol.

I didn't say NICE say to use benzos long term

Many, if not most patients on a SSRI are co prescribed an hypnotic.

It is habitual with GPs

That is fact in my experiences - which includes over a thousand GPs

My basic point that was although we have BPD,

we are/should be treated according to our symptoms.

I agree in not injecting diazepam - as I said in a previous posting.

I am not disagreeing with anything you have said.

(Except of course that Zopiclone is a benzo).

I am just agreeing that Mental Health is way down on the list of priorities

and we are pretty much given drugs to keep us away.

As for NICE - I don't know the full details.

I do know they support the use of hypnotics.

I live in Scotland - we don't actually follow NICE (thank God)

Our local trusts seem to lay down set protocols which firstly seems to be to refer to secondary care.

I am sorry if my responses have upset you.

I am only saying what I know to be true

and the WHO Guide to Mental Health in Primary Care says benzos are to be used in certain circumstances

Obviously not to be injected.

You have knowledge - at least if your GP wants to put you on an anxiolytic - you know there are alternatives.

For that we are both lucky

Perhaps this post shall have made others think

but as we know, change is hard.

People have to live their own lives

Anything to cope - not ideal - but real

I think Dave has a point

we are all individuals with different problems.

I am sorry if this thread has hit a nerve with you

My basic intention is to protect Real

and I said no to injecting early on.

I hope this is ok.

Use your knowledge to look after yourself

as we can't make people change

as much as we may like

(I would change myself first)

Good Luck with your medications and recovery

Pip

x

[Eva*]

Just wanted to add one thing. I know that bpd patients are said to be prone to addiction but as it is with bpd not all actually are. It's part of 1 of 9 icd-10 criteria and you have to meet 5 to 'qualify' for the diagnosis.

It's actually what others said, that it's a decision that should be made for each individual patient for a number of reasons. That's not saying that gp's always consider their decisions very thoroughly and are careful about prescribing benzos. I guess they actually are in Germany, anyway. But it might well be different in other countries.

But you said you were so surprised about so many of us having been prescribed benzos and we gave you the reasons why, none of which disputed the risk of addiction. We just disputed that all of our doctors have to be out of their minds or thoughtless or uninformed to prescribe them.

[pip]

Bravo Eva

Dave's point gets stronger all the time

Pip

x

[realscape]

WARNING: COULD BE TRIGGERING - DON'T READ IT IF YOU STRUGGLE WITH DRUGS

Well I'm sorry I didn't mean to cause and argument here! Yikes, I do keep causing arguments these days. Someone medicate me! Dave has good points I didn't mean to cause a clash between him and Pip, you are both making sane and sensible and knowledgable points.

Anyway, I have to report zopiclone was prescribed to me by an addiction recovery pdoc when I was getting clean of alcohol and amphetamines and coke and ecstacy. EVEN THO it says quite clearly that it shouldn't be prescribed to anyone with addiction problems. So they are mad. And I am addicted. Now my GP has to give because the psych tells her to because I go and slag off my lack of therapy and he goes here have some pills. 3 years now. And I have built tolerance. And sometimes after I take a break for a few days they work again. And sometimes when I take them after food they don't work at all. And when I feel self-destructive I take tons and tons of them and knock myself out. When I was on the lemonade diet I didn't take any and slept like a baby. I am thinking to do it again for a week to break the habit. My habit is back because of visiting with family and getting in a real self destruct state of mind. Apparently there is no lethal upper limit on diazepam or zopiclone so OD in the sense of death isn't really an issue.

My point about harm to the body was that in a way, the only thing the body has to do biologically is process a toxic substance not really fit for consumption in the same way that smoking cigarettes or eating gunk junk food causes burden to the organs. I may be completely wrong. Mentally is a different story. I don't think ODing to blackout is big or clever whatever the substance. Its just where I'm at. Meds have made me worse, diazepam helps me cope in a way but in another way it avoids me having to find coping mechanisms. For the record, I tried injecting both and now my arms and hand is fucked and bruised and sore and the zopiclone worked but the diazepam didn't. I would not recommend doing this to anyone. Its not an option. EVER. Research over. Dunno why would take it upon myself to carry out such bizarre ideas. Don't try it at home.

[pip]

I don't think ODing to blackout is big or clever whatever the substance. Its just where I'm at.

Real, Dave and I didn't clash.

I think Jumper has their own issues

(don't we all)

I know what you mean and how you feel - I think.

I have done the above many times.

I probably would have done it this weekend if Pilgrim wasn't here.

I know it isn't clever, but it can help block your mind.

My mind definately needs blocking fom time to time

I just wanted to save you from yourself

-not always easy I know

But I am here for you

I know life sucks

but we names on the screen respect you

and like you here!

So take care

I await your next post!

Love

Pips

x

[realscape]

Hi Pip, sorry I meant you and jumper clashing, not you and dave.

Thanks for being concerned, we're all in the same boat I suppose, its just finding solutions is so hard. Finding escape routes is too bloody easy.

[pip]

Real

I know and my heart is with you.

All you did was vocalise your thoughts.

Jumper has issuses with these drugs.

I suppose we all do (but I like mine)

Anyway, we just want you to be ok

You were brave to say what you thought.

I hope we stopped your daft thoughts

(which we all get)

I don't mind if someone hates me for knowing the truth -

that is their problem.

Everything I said was fact.

and I am happy I can share it with you

Any more daft ideas, let me know!

love

Pip

x

[Eva*]

Finding escape routes is too bloody easy.

Well, escape routes that don't lead anywhere or back to the route we're on anyway just that we ruined our shoes on the detour and it's even harder to walk on with them now and gets more and more painful with every step.

Let's hope we find a real crossing at some point and turn the right way.

(Sorry, don't get me started on metaphors or I'll extend them endlessly )

I hope your hand and arm will be okay again soon, doesn't sound very tempting to me at all!!!!

Thanks for trusting us enough to post all this.

Love

Eva

[pip]

Real

I hope this post - and others show how much we value you.

(((Real)))

Follow my advice and do the same as me - try to stay away from the family!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Pip

x

[realscape]

Thanks Eva - I know what you mean about the metaphors. I keep detouring and taking diversions but the problem is I'm not actually on route to anywhere, so what am I trying to escape, anyway so its just a big jumbled up mess that is truly wearing out my mental shoe leather. Although not my actual shoe leather because self-isolating generally doesn't require outdoor shoes which is great.

Thanks Pip - it means a lot to me that you can understand.

[pip]

Yeah we save a fortune on shoes!

and washing clothes - cos I don't wear many!

Real we are here for you - don't you dare forget it!

Love

Pip

x

(also in self-detruct mode)

[Leslie]

Dear Real,

Be careful with trying to injecting any drug. Besides all things that were mentioned, it's the physicall pain you can be in. I had years ago a series of injections and I couldn't walk, when they wouldn't find more butt to shoot, I had the inyections in my arms or my thighs, so it was like having feverish all my arms, my butt and hardly could walk because of the pain on my legs.

And it was prescribed by my crazy doctor, he wanted me the most dopped as possible to avoid any SH attempt or scaping again from the clinic or my house...

What I do now when I want to increase the absorption of the pill is that I put under my tongue and I let it dissolving and it's said that it works faster and better.

But sometimes there are some that have horrible taste...

Take care,

Leslie

[Little Creature]

Hi, guys,

I agree with Leslie, putting the pill under the tongue and let it dissolve makes a faster absorption. There are lots of veins there and it's almost as fast as an injection.

Second point: Dissolving a pill, mixing it with saline solution and injecting it will only destroy the vein. The excipients are not the appropriate ones and it will produce a phlebitis (inflamation of the vessel).

Third point: Every organism reacts differently. I took Zopiclone and it didn't work at all (remember, is a hypnotic, and has to be taken 15-20 min. before going to bed, otherwise won't work). Then my doc changed the Diazepam+Zopiclone combo for Clonazepam (Rivotril) and it worked like a charm.

Fourth: Taking a bunch of pills to blackout SUCKS. It developes tolerance, I got to the point to take 26 mg of rivotril a day (yes, what a good girl, once I get something that works, I have to fuck up, pardon my French). The detox was hard, but I could go through it and survive. And believe it or not, MY DOC ALLOWS ME TO TAKE IT, only SOS and 0.25 mg. at a time.

That guy must surely trust me and I won't let him down.

Scientific fact: Clonazepam (a benzo) has a remarcable effect in anxiety/panic attacks. Perhaps you can mention it to your doc.

Membrane stabilizers (mood stabilizers), such as Lamotrigine, a drug also used in epilepsy, worked very well on me.

Watch out: that's MY PERSONAL experience.

As I said before, we all react differently.