Forgiveness Is...........

[hannahf]

I like it... But forgiveness at this point in my life is too early to even comprehend. I had completely blocked things out until about 2 years ago and then continued down a path of self destruction, whilst my family watched and let me destroy myself. Anyway, to the point...

My mother was the first person I came to after my incident and I told her what had happened to me. Her exact words were "What...? Don't be so silly, now go and tidy your room, Grandma is coming round soon" .......... Sometimes I can forgive her, because I understand the helplessness she must have felt... or at least I hope she felt... it is, of course, a mother's worst fear so knowing my mother, it would've been extremely difficult to accept and acknowledge. But the fact that its been almost 13 years and not a single word has ever been said about it since, despite my ridiculous behaviour, I can't help but not forgive and blame her for how I am now. Not my abusers... I blame my mother. Part of me hopes and prays forgiveness will come one day soon but there's also the part of me that is still so heartbroken that she didn't believe me, like I said I can't even comprehend the idea.

Thank you for posting this because I feel like it will help me loads. I think forgiveness requires great strength and courage. Courage because it means accepting what happened and letting it go. Also I agree in thinking its so vitally important for us to forgive ourselves. I esp liked "forgiveness is taking responsibility for one's happiness" Thats an idea I think I'll try to work into my life. It feels like it might help... Tbh I thought it was all awesome lol... I'm gonna try and read it every morning before I head out.

Han x

[™Michelle1]

"Forgiveness is giving up all hope of a better past."

And in exchange receiving the best possible one.

Very good point

[robinson98765]

[i agree they do not deserve my forgiveness. I don't think he even cares if I do or not. Cheating bugger !!!

I am Brandie by the way and I just wanted to say hi. I am new here I hope I am in the right area. I have been a long time squating spot for BPD. And I just realized that yes it is a darn hard thing to go through on my own. I have a husband who is now saying that he can't cope with the way I am. That is why I say they don't deserve my forgiveness, because I am doing nothing wrong. I can't help the way I am. You are right forgiveness is admitting that I have something wring with me worth forgiving. I can't do that . Not and stay sane hehe.

quote name='drew' date='Feb 10 2007, 03:45 PM' post='205393']

why do we have to forgive people when there bloody horrible

i dont forgive and i wont and perhaps i be ill till i die but they not getting forgiveness from me

[robinson98765]

[i agree they do not deserve my forgiveness. I don't think he even cares if I do or not. Cheating bugger !!!

I am Brandie by the way and I just wanted to say hi. I am new here I hope I am in the right area. I have been a long time squating spot for BPD. And I just realized that yes it is a darn hard thing to go through on my own. I have a husband who is now saying that he can't cope with the way I am. That is why I say they don't deserve my forgiveness, because I am doing nothing wrong. I can't help the way I am. You are right forgiveness is admitting that I have something wring with me worth forgiving. I can't do that . Not and stay sane hehe.

quote name='drew' date='Feb 10 2007, 03:45 PM' post='205393']

why do we have to forgive people when there bloody horrible

i dont forgive and i wont and perhaps i be ill till i die but they not getting forgiveness from me

[FrisArvz]

FORGIVENESS is EASY to ASK, but HARD to GIVE.

[FrisArvz]

Forgiveness isn't needed to heal

Why did you say so? For those you are asking for forgiveness, it is needed to heal their heart from guilt.

[lookin4an3scape]

I talked about forgiveness in therapy with my past therapist before. I asked her how do I forgive family for what they have done to me. She said, people use the word forgiveness too much. Forgiveness is overrated. A better question is, how can I live without it affecting me so much? After she said that, that is how I have always thought of it and I think it rings true.

[Norabella]

forgiveness comes and goes... I have days when I hate my abusers and days when I dont care .. days when I pity them..even think I understand them or at least try to ... I have days when I am angry because of them.. I feel pain because of them and a very deep sorrow that cuts deep and all I know is I feel better and have a good day the less I think about them and what was stolen from me, so much was stolen but they cant have me .. I am still here and I will always be ME ... so I guess it is easier at some times and less easy at others... I just keep me safe and together I am my priority now and I look after me because I have spent enought of my life suffering and trying to fix myself ... I try to let go of the sadness, the anger and the negative stuff and keep my world as beautiful as possible.

[roxy222]

I think forgiveness is an emotion and that it cannot and should not be forced. I think we only naturally feel forgiveness when someone acts in a way that earns it. I think forcing forgiveness is a seriously danagerous thing to do, it is a denial of our real feelings, which only worsens dissociaition, and its a betrayal of the innocent child we were. by forgiving people who dont deserve it we are granting compassion to those who have wronged us and diminishing the seriousness of their crimes, and the consequences they have stuck us with. we should be saving all our comapssion for ourselves and standing by what we know to be true so that we do not allow our inner childs pain to be forgotton or silenced and so that we can see evil people for what they are and protect ourselves from them.

[Ksirtadnimeht]

I read this about forgiveness and kinda liked it...

The act of forgiveness is an act of giving yourself a gift in the future. You set the energy of the future when you clear your own energy and give in front of yourself, thus the word "for-give."

Holding a resentment is like taking poison and waiting for the other person to die. You are the one who is drained of energy.

[Shattered]

I think forgiveness is an emotion and that it cannot and should not be forced. I think we only naturally feel forgiveness when someone acts in a way that earns it. I think forcing forgiveness is a seriously danagerous thing to do, it is a denial of our real feelings, which only worsens dissociaition, and its a betrayal of the innocent child we were. by forgiving people who dont deserve it we are granting compassion to those who have wronged us and diminishing the seriousness of their crimes, and the consequences they have stuck us with. we should be saving all our comapssion for ourselves and standing by what we know to be true so that we do not allow our inner childs pain to be forgotton or silenced and so that we can see evil people for what they are and protect ourselves from them.

That is an interesting point, but does your child part always know whats best? I too feel that i owe it to my the child part of me to protect it from any more hurt, and fear. My child part is also angry though, very angry, it too has to learn to let go of that anger, because it will get us nowhere. I (my wise part) can't work with strong emotions like anger, because then i just dissociate.

My abuser, i will never forgive him in the sense that i will say to him, its ok, you only ruined my life, no worries! I will never speak to him again, so he doesn't know how i feel towards him. Therefore he will never know that i am letting go of the anger i feel towards him. I am not doing it for his sake, i am doing it for mine, so that i can find peace.

[hummm_mabbe]

Ive had thoughts about all this before, and I even spoke to my christian friend about it. His response surprised me. Even though the church always says you should forgive as a matter of course, he said "first you have to heal from what hurt, and become strong again, because only then can you be sure that you are in the right position to make sure they dont hurt you again. You cant forgive if you dont know what youre forgiving".

I agree with this point of view. Forgiveness is a process, not an act you force on yourself. It is also unique to the situation in question. Most therapists now would agree that it isnt necessary to forgive to heal, though the ultimate expression of healing IS forgiveness. But first you must be strong enough to do that. Why?

If you are still close to your abuser, then you need to be sure that they can never hurt you again. For some abusers, they may have remorse. They may want to atone for what they did, and repair the damage. This is positive, and makes it easier to forgive.

But sometimes the abuser does NOT intends to change, and the victim may say "I forgive you" out of guilt or fear. They may be abused again - in this case what happened was not forgiveness - it was submission. In order to become safe, the victim needed to construct an emotional barrier that would prevent them from being hurt again. Removing the guilt or shame or need for approval that kept them coming back to the abuser, and giving up their power to them. Once this distance has been found, and the person gains strength and healing, then they may begin to see WHY their abuser was unable to control their behaviour, and why they felt they had to act that way. This understanding may lead to an acceptance that allows the victim to finally see that they did not deserve the abuse, that they are worthy. They can move on, and in this situation they may wish to forgive, knowing that their new emotional strength means that they cannot be abused again.

If the abuser still does not repent, and wishes to carry on abusing, then the victim may wish to get away from them. Ending the relationship may be the only way to be safe.

The question is not whether to forgive, but what emotions may still remain. It may be that the person feels they must forgive because otherwise they will lose the love and approval of their abuser, which they may still crave. It may be that they cannot let go because they need their abuser to agree with them, and see things from their point of view. Or ot may be that the person feels guilty - that somehow their abuser could not cope if they left them. Under these instances, to claim forgiveness is false - the forgiver may in fact just be placing themselves back into a manipulative loop or one that keeps them stuck in needing something they are never going to get.

For this reason, I belive that forgiveness can only GENUINELY come - that is, from the heart and gut with no remnant of need, shame or guilt - once healing and new strength is found. Once the person feels equal to or more powerful than their abuser, then they can choose to forigve out of compassion for events that may have caused them to behave that way, like their own childhood. For this reason forgiveness is very situation specific, and the old "forgiveness heals all" maxim is in my view a bit of a crass oversimplification. Thats why many therapists do not push it.

[roxy222]

I think forgiveness is an emotion and that it cannot and should not be forced. I think we only naturally feel forgiveness when someone acts in a way that earns it. I think forcing forgiveness is a seriously danagerous thing to do, it is a denial of our real feelings, which only worsens dissociaition, and its a betrayal of the innocent child we were. by forgiving people who dont deserve it we are granting compassion to those who have wronged us and diminishing the seriousness of their crimes, and the consequences they have stuck us with. we should be saving all our comapssion for ourselves and standing by what we know to be true so that we do not allow our inner childs pain to be forgotton or silenced and so that we can see evil people for what they are and protect ourselves from them.

That is an interesting point, but does your child part always know whats best? I too feel that i owe it to my the child part of me to protect it from any more hurt, and fear. My child part is also angry though, very angry, it too has to learn to let go of that anger, because it will get us nowhere. I (my wise part) can't work with strong emotions like anger, because then i just dissociate.

My abuser, i will never forgive him in the sense that i will say to him, its ok, you only ruined my life, no worries! I will never speak to him again, so he doesn't know how i feel towards him. Therefore he will never know that i am letting go of the anger i feel towards him. I am not doing it for his sake, i am doing it for mine, so that i can find peace.

I used to dissociate with lots of strong emotions, especially the ones I was never allowed to have access to as a child, or ones that caused my life to be in jepordy if I experienced tham as a child. now that I am an adult I can give my inner child the safety and freedom to experience those lost emotions. it has taken tons of time, but it has worked successfullyl, and yes my child part is allways right, chidlrens insticts and emotions when not manipulated are amazingly pure and accurate. anger ha prooved to be a good thing, for me I couldnt let it go, that would have been as false as forgiveness. by experiencing that anger (safely, when ready) I found out alot about my history and by fiitting the narrative together I was able to see things in all aspects of my life much clearer. when i stopped fighting against anger I found it freeing, and it has helped so much in the presengt, now Im nolonger scared of what it communicates to me and I appriciate it I can use it to protect myself, to make positoive decisons for myself. It no longer spills over innapropriately, I dont take it out on myself, transefer it to those who dont deserve it. feeling anger when and where it springs up makes life so much clearer, I can now tell who to trust, when to speak up for myself (withou loosing control) and do not feel overwhelmed with hatred or rage. anger is our bodies way of communicating very important messages to ourselves, and I am so greatful that it has given me so much protection and care.

[roxy222]

Ive had thoughts about all this before, and I even spoke to my christian friend about it. His response surprised me. Even though the church always says you should forgive as a matter of course, he said "first you have to heal from what hurt, and become strong again, because only then can you be sure that you are in the right position to make sure they dont hurt you again. You cant forgive if you dont know what youre forgiving".

I agree with this point of view. Forgiveness is a process, not an act you force on yourself. It is also unique to the situation in question. Most therapists now would agree that it isnt necessary to forgive to heal, though the ultimate expression of healing IS forgiveness. But first you must be strong enough to do that. Why?

If you are still close to your abuser, then you need to be sure that they can never hurt you again. For some abusers, they may have remorse. They may want to atone for what they did, and repair the damage. This is positive, and makes it easier to forgive.

But sometimes the abuser does NOT intends to change, and the victim may say "I forgive you" out of guilt or fear. They may be abused again - in this case what happened was not forgiveness - it was submission. In order to become safe, the victim needed to construct an emotional barrier that would prevent them from being hurt again. Removing the guilt or shame or need for approval that kept them coming back to the abuser, and giving up their power to them. Once this distance has been found, and the person gains strength and healing, then they may begin to see WHY their abuser was unable to control their behaviour, and why they felt they had to act that way. This understanding may lead to an acceptance that allows the victim to finally see that they did not deserve the abuse, that they are worthy. They can move on, and in this situation they may wish to forgive, knowing that their new emotional strength means that they cannot be abused again.

If the abuser still does not repent, and wishes to carry on abusing, then the victim may wish to get away from them. Ending the relationship may be the only way to be safe.

The question is not whether to forgive, but what emotions may still remain. It may be that the person feels they must forgive because otherwise they will lose the love and approval of their abuser, which they may still crave. It may be that they cannot let go because they need their abuser to agree with them, and see things from their point of view. Or ot may be that the person feels guilty - that somehow their abuser could not cope if they left them. Under these instances, to claim forgiveness is false - the forgiver may in fact just be placing themselves back into a manipulative loop or one that keeps them stuck in needing something they are never going to get.

For this reason, I belive that forgiveness can only GENUINELY come - that is, from the heart and gut with no remnant of need, shame or guilt - once healing and new strength is found. Once the person feels equal to or more powerful than their abuser, then they can choose to forigve out of compassion for events that may have caused them to behave that way, like their own childhood. For this reason forgiveness is very situation specific, and the old "forgiveness heals all" maxim is in my view a bit of a crass oversimplification. Thats why many therapists do not push it.

I think this is a vey disturbing and nieve view. even if an abuser does everything in their power to try and make it up to someone I still dont think they should be forgiven. forgivness misimisses the seriousness of their crimes. it is ofcourse perfectly possible to recreat a relationship with a person who admitts they did wrong and accepts resposnibility for their crimes as well as the consequences of them, but thsi does not require forgivness for the orginal crimes. an adult is perfectly capable of accepting blame for what they have done wrong, if they dont then they have no right to accept credit for what they have done right. I also think that its damaging to aim for uderstanding of the abuser. as helpless children we automaticly try to understand our abusers to seek some control within the situation, this is such a damaging action in the long term, and one that is so desperately hard to rebalance. as adults we no longer have to grant our abusers such compassion, and by doing so we continue patterns that are destructive to ourselves. as adults it our job to understand ourselves, to grant ourselves the support to face the horror we could not then , and the compassion to deal with its affects. your post is contradictory, by claiming tha forgiveness is possibel when one is string enough is yet again a way of putting blame onto the victim, and healing, moving forward, recovering is not about this. when you truely stand by yourself 100% forgiveness doesnot even enter into the equation. when you let go of this illusion life becomes possible.

[piuma]

i remember all through my teens up to say 19 hating and accusing and not forgiving. i dunno what happened, but over the years, and i dont think its forgiveness, because, i dont forgive anyone for what they have done, i just think, maybe, not letting them have power over me any more, um, so when i see my abuser, its like, they dont mean anything to me, maybe a little dissassociation going on, its like i dont even know them, they are nothing. it doesnt even go through my bubble, it cant. but for many many years it did. my big sis gets so angry with my mum, full of hate and blame, and she says how can i just be ok with her, hell, my mum is sometimes my best mate, she doesnt understand that for me, it is no longer the same, my mum maybe be gthe same person but she behaves in a different manner, now, one that i can tolerate and love. forgive the old mum, no!!! live with the new one yes!! i hope that make sense.

im not very articulate, but i try xx

[sanctuary]

"Forgiveness is giving up all hope of a better past."

Wow Piuma the original post goes back 3 years!! But I think the above quote is bloody brilliant having never heard it before but it has sat with me just nicely. Thanks for resurrecting this old post piuma, I have learnt something new today. x

[piuma]

yes sacntuary it is a very good quote, must admit didnt read through all, i find i need to post or a get swayed. lol, well done for pointing it out, i think thats one to remember!!! thanks miko xx

[piuma]

just realised, forgivness is somethig i can never do for myself.

[Ruth24]

I think forgiveness is fucking difficult and not always possible or necessary. It just makes things a wee bit easier. Forgiveness has to come naturally and no amount of therapy can force you to forgive.

If it ever comes, it will come in its own time and gradually, not overnight. However, if you cannot forgive, that does not make you a bad person. some can forgive, some can't. You are not bitter and twisted because you are unable to forgive

Forgiving yourself is the hardest but most satisfying forgiveness of all

[gavin]

About forgiveness

Forgiveness is used by the abuser for forgiveness for abusing you because they were court,

If i see anyone that abused me, i kick the fuck out of them??????and then they are unforgiving,

I’am their judge and jury,????? i convey my fists into their religion, their parenting, the teachers,

The bullys, i;am so fucken carnivorous when it comes to those mother fuckers, those brothel

Bread sons of bitches, it helps get rid of the neck ballast, gavin

[hummm_mabbe]

Its worth noting that most psychologists (especially those in trauma research) do NOT believe that forgiveness is necessary for recovery, so do not feel despairing or bad if this is not something you feel you can do. Many spiritual practices advocate it as a path to be free from suffering (buddhism), some other religions make you a sinner if you dont forgive - but when it comes down to the human beings that we are, forgiveness is not a pre-requisite for overcoming the pain and legacy of trauma. Forgiveness has a valid place, but it is not a barrier to recovery if you cannot.

I guess Im saying, you dont need to make the idea of forgiveness yet another "why cant I do it - I SHOULD be able to do it - im bad because I cannot" stick to beat yourself over the head with.

[adman]

Ooo I like that one Miko.

Yup. Plenty to think about in that one.

Learning to forgive oneself for not being a perfect human being is a long journey. Learning to judge myself by the much more gentle standards by which I judge others....the dubious pleasures of self-flaggellation.

[steelflex]

to forgive someone well that can easily be said but to mean it is another story

its hard to forget how much an action or even a word can hurt

[indie22]

I can forgive some people. There has been a few I can't though, people who have really really hurt me.. One being recent and I know that the angry I still have towards them at times means I can't forgive them.. If I forgive them, then in there head it means that the crap they put me through will mean nothing.. But then they don't really care..

Forgiveness is a thing that means something to us that know the true meaning of how not to treat people

[Roses]

Forgiveness is something that makes the abuser feel better.