Confidence And Self-esteem

[Miko]

For my first three decades (before I isolated myself) people were blithely saying to me, "Have some confidence" as if they were those rochers on a silver tray at the Ambassador's reception.

Now I can hear in the wings, "he's got a self-esteem issue". Well they are not the same thing.

The things that dent my confidence are metabolic, cognitive, neuromuscular. (All of them totally non-existent to professions and institutions.)

My boundaries might be bad but I can still tell the difference between my esteem for the world and my esteem for myself.

Discuss (on one side of the paper) leaving alternate lines blank ...

[nettynoodle]

very true

a lot of people think they are the same thing but they're not

[Vicky]

Absolutely.

To the outside world (or most of them, at least), I have confidence. But my self-esteem is pretty low. Though I am getting there, slowly.

[Betsy]

gotta agree. i appear confident and have no self esteem.

[Madeleine]

I have neither... so makes no difference to me.

[Miko]

Betsy, Vicky, have you got confidence? Or are you the same as Madeleine?

Everyone can see I am lacking in confidence and I agree with them, we differ about the cause and how to acquire it (if ever). The world tells itself I lack self esteem whereas I know I don't lack it.

[whhyyy]

define confidence for u? and tell me how can confidence and #self esteem be hightened for you miko? only u know that babe and where you'r condifence is lacking.. e.g. academically, physically, emotionally etc. hugs, me x

[mort]

(((Miko)))

I can put on a show of confidence even appear to be an extrovert at times.

But it is to mask the low self esteem I have and try to hide it from others.

Deep down I know the truth of how I feel. I hope you do too.

Thank you once more for an intriguing and humourous post.

tc

mort x

[SilentAlarmXIII]

I'm not sure it matters either way.

If a horse moves you forward, ride it.

[Miko]

Whhyyy & Mort,

from this thread only a few posts above: The things that dent my confidence are metabolic, cognitive, neuromuscular.

from my other threads you know what level my self esteem is at (diametric opposite to almost everyone else at the forum)

Whhyyy Mort Betsy & Vicky,

What I am trying to get you to examine is whether actual confidence and self-esteem are two separate concepts in your experience. I'm not interested in an air of confidence.

Obviously it matters SAX III.

What might you have to contribute to the thread?

[mort]

Sorry (((Miko)))

In my world I "believe" that if I had a higher self esteem then I would genuinely feel confident. So I do believe the two go hand in hand.

But that's just my belief tho. I'm still working on trying to increase my self esteem so I don't have the experience to know whether I'm right to believe this yet.

tc

mort x

[whhyyy]

ok...... well when i picture how anyone sees me i think i look like a ugly geek, fat and horrible. only thing i love about my appearance is my dress sense, piercings and scars. however, i have untouchable belief in my capabilities and anything i want to do i can do it well. hope that helps a little to help denfine the difference for me in self esteem and confidence x

[SilentAlarmXIII]

Obviously it matters SAX III.

What might you have to contribute to the thread?

Well, I'm not sure it does matter Miko. I find not worrying about things to be a great relief!

However, my tuppenceworth is this. They're different but symbiotic.

Confidence relates to specific tasks. For example, I have confidence in my ability to do X. When called upon to do X, I do it without fear or doubt. Say, opening my mail or ordering a cup of coffee from a Starbucks. (I pick those because there _have_ been times in my life when I've been utterly inept at both!)

Self-esteem derives from how you view your various confidences and competences. Eventually, you start to say, "Look, I can drive, I can talk to people and smile, I can live and love and not worry about the small stuff. All these things are decent and good qualities and, yup, I guess I'm more or less a good enough person."

(I think I see some parallels there with your own distinction between internal and external states)

An appropriate self esteem raises mood, makes learning and living easier and more effective, and can then _feed through_ into increasing specific confidences/competences. It's a virtuous cycle.

The reason why I'm not sure it matters is because none of us have "self esteem meters". I don't have a fuel-guage telling me how much confidence or self esteem I have at a given time. We have moods, but moods are fiendishly untrustworthy and unreliable things. I don't think that _looking_ at self esteem or confidence matters as much as _doing_ it, in other words! Analysis is not a substitute for practice, and intelligence is not a substitute for living.

But perhaps I'm making no sense. I often rarely do!

Yet... I'm happy with that!

Best wishes

SAXIII

[nettynoodle]

mort

i wonder sometimes whether if i had more self esteem would i be more confident

i pretend to be confident when i'm actually shaking inside

but i cant fake self esteem yet if i was more confident would i have a higher self esteem

damn i'm so confused now :blink:

[innermuddle]

mike you are very intellegent and some of your big words i dont understand ***slightly embarassed**** but i can say that self esteem and confidence in my opinion are different. I am confident in that i lead a youth group, i can go into a room full of people i don't know and start up a conversation with someone, i can join groups and do things on my own, i can approach a stranger in the street and ask for directions etc but i have really bad self esteem. I think negatively about myself, i am not good at anything in my opinion, i dont like my appearance, i think i am thick, i think others dont like me, i think i am a failure i dont believe in myself.

I can still appear confident though - hope that answers your question

[Miko]

SAX III,

I wonder if I get a better feel for where you are coming from now.

For those with very low competences in a few or many areas I think it is still potentially possible to have good self-esteem.

Because it is only ever subjective, I wonder whether everybody has their own meter of it, it is its own meter.

It can perhaps come from sources other than confidence stemming from competences.

It would often appear that it is not analytical it is a sense, clearly (to read the forum) a very intrusive one for some people.

As for actual analysis when it does occur, there is an element of that to most threads!

I did not post this only for myself but for the others also and to offer that there may be a varied contrast between the insight of some people (the 'them' I referred to, who are not mentally ill, together with some forum members) and some other forum members who see these as different things.

Living and intelligence are not substitutes for each other. Whatever few or many intelligences (including social, spatial, etc) each one has are their indispensible aids to living.

Without part of my cerebellum I have decided I have to admire others' achievements alongside my own, and ask about matters rather than only guess all my life like some told me over the years they would like. I try to choose issues imaginatively to ask about.

I 'do words' as some of you have noticed but most of my other intellectual abilities are very low. ('Splinter skills')

I am not questioning people's rightness in directly expressing their low self esteem as a fact, but trying for my own good (and assuming I would not be unique) to create more context for the issue.

It is interesting that for quite a lot of people the two are linked to some extent.

Maybe it would be more normal for me to bring them closer together.

I was looked very much down on by many for low achievements. I remember now, I took their emotions on board for many years and it's only in the last 20 years I have moved. Perhaps I should move back again.

Perhaps as my 'learning to succeed' tutor would say 'it's all a question of balance'!

[allpsychedout]

Miko, I had to think a few days about your topic, here. Now, it's finally time to add my own bit to it. :-p

I feel I've always had 'confidence' in my ability to do activities meaningful to me; as I've gradually lost many of those abilities, naturally I don't feel so competent anymore, so that of course means a decrease in my confidence overall.

As to self-esteem, mine was constantly degraded while growing up, so it's always had 'holes' in it. Eventually as an adult, I came to feel it had grown sufficiently enough I could adapt well to nearly anything. Then I started getting really ill, so there it all went, once again.

Now, it does come and go with my ups and downs. I don't even bother trying to 'fake it' anymore. I've no trouble doing things, accomplishing tasks, during times I feel reasonably well, but I don't even try to do much of anything, otherwise. The way others react to me feels palpable so guess it has to do with my so-called 'self-esteem' on a given day. I totally hide from the world during the worst times. Works for me...

Isn't self-esteem attached to how we get treated throughout life, and how others react to us? How 'validated' we were as children, and later by friends, co-workers, etc? And isn't confidence related more to self-knowledge about our abilities or lack thereof, and how those make us feel inside?

Seems like we can have low, or spotty, self-esteem but still have confidence in many areas. Also, we can have relatively high self-esteem yet feel confident ONLY in areas we feel we have lots of understanding, but not in general.

Must feel wonderful, to have high self-esteem and confidence almost all the time; that I wouldn't know about.

allpsychedout

[Miko]

AllPOut,

You are rather the opposite way round from me and similarly have a strong sense of these being distinct matters ...

Several others who are low in both also admitted them as distinct matters ...

[SilentAlarmXIII]

Miko,

I would rather read your words than any poet. I rarely think with precision.

Let me give you a new argument.

I query (sometimes) whether self-esteem exists. We are told it exists. But does it? Who invented it? I doubt its derivation and parentage. It is (I feel, sometimes) a ghost thought or an imagining.

Consider:

1. People "with self esteem" never think about it.

2. People "without self esteem" never stop thinking about it.

Testable hypothesis:

?3. if you stop thinking about it, does that mean you have it?

Paradox:

??4. Ceasing to think about it creates it -- but as it is no longer in your mind, it does not exist!

I welcome as always your thoughts.

SAXIII.

[Miko]

SAX III,

Self-esteem is the tea that slips through your strainer!

So many of us have posted here that we have (or, even more) haven't some.

In addition third parties set up the concept of "self esteem issues" in our regard.

To the extent of those phenomena there must be a hidden planet, the effect of whose gravity can be deduced/inferred.

It occurred to me I didn't go into the question what I shall do with my self esteem. It may be I have a reserve of self esteem in the bank to try out practicalities more often where my past low performance dented my confidence.

That would be an area where there is risk of ending up with a posioned and poisonous sort of self esteem. What is the mysterious third planet of the trio/triad? Willingness? Humility?