My Real Personality

[Altered State]

I was just thinking about when I was relatively happy and outgoing (mostly with the help of alcohol) - about my early 20's (when hangovers were few and far between).

Was that my real personality? When the alcohol relaxed me enough to feel comfortable in my own skin and allowed this charming and intelligent person (if I may say ) to appear, was that the real me? Or just "still" me, but just in an altered state.

I have been ill so long that it is hightly unlikely my personality and behaviours will ever change. Oh sure, I'll learn DBT techniques to help "reduce" my suffering (because, as they say here in DBT, "We can't make you happy, but we can teach you how to better cope," or something to that effect.

Well, Whoopeee!

I suppose I'm being selfish here - the coping skills do help those unfortunates around me by reducing somewhat, my "odd" behaviours and moods, but just controlling myself around people does not change how I feel - it's just left unexpressed.

That is dangerous for me. I end up chewing on and swallowing these feelings which promptly puts my stomach and intestines into knots. Out comes the pills! When it becomes all too much and the feelings have reached their apex (and my mind is swirling with so many fearful thoughts), then I end up, well, you know the rest...

Where is the real healing? How does it stay with you? How can one be "in the moment," change the behaviour pattern, see good results, acknowledge that, hey! I did good today, yet still feel like nothing has changed? Well, for me, it hasn't. BECAUSE I STILL THINK AND FEEL THE SAME WAY! That hasn't changed one bit and sooner or later, it will all come spilling out - again and again and again!

I FEEL LIKE SUCH A HYPOCRITE!!! I'm acting one way and feeling another. This doubles the black/white effect inside me. Who is that better for? (did I happen to mention that I absolutely loathe being hypocritcal; I ranked that as one of the worst feelings, like uncontrolled jealousy).

So who am I? If I look at it with my logic, I am nothing more than damaged goods - I am two disparate people in one. One harsh, dogmatic, controlling; the other, overly empathic, overwhelmed with constant sadness and lost. That is my personality. Always has been, always will be. I may have mellowed with age as far as the drama goes, mostly because I have chosen a life of near-solitude, but the fact is, I will never be who I want to be. I will never be released from this dual-celled prison. I will never even come close to being within the "normal" range personality-wise. It would be ok if I had some extraordinary gift or I was extremely wealthy (people would be less likely to express their disdain toward you), but I am not. I will never mesh with society. I will always be on the outside looking in.

I can only hope that someday things will look brighter, but quite frankly, that is getting harder and harder to do.

Please, no pep talks. I wouldn't believe them anyway.

[LiveWire]

Wow! You said that so well...

I too have retreated to a life of solitude - a bit unlike yourself, because I am not near alone, but rather completely alone. Not necessarily by choice mind you, it just seemed one day while fighting the battle of life I looked around and found I had no friends and no family left standing near - it was just me, standing in the middle of this desolate battlefield of broken dreams and empty promises.

If what you say is true about "getting better," that is, still feeling the same way yet having to hold your thoughts and bite your tongue - then what good is it? This I do already, at least until the pressure builds beyond my ability to hold it in (which varies day to day or even minute to minute). I am better off just being alone than trying to be someone I'm not - I have enough problems without adding the titles of hypocrite and liar to my resume!

[bibiddi]

Altered,what a good and thoughtful post.

The only thing I can say,is to do with your two selfs,the harsh controlling one,and the over empathic one.Wouldnt it be helpful if they both met,and worked together?Then when you have strong feelings which one side of you cant express,and the other can only say it in a way which upset others,then they can counter balance each other.You can learn to say how your feel,and wont have to resort to pills or alcohol.

[Betsy]

i dont know how long you have been practicing dbt but it does take time. just because you have finished the course doesnt mean all the changes have internalized, they are still a struggle.

i would say that you are all the things you have mentioned and the choice is up to you who wins. you have to fight to let the good side of you be the victor.

good luck.... you did ask for no pep talk

bets

[rebeccaborderline]

I so get what being talked about here because its me too.

"Solitude"; yes; not deliberately but finding that you're standing all alone now, and the grim acceptance of such.

On paper Ive made marked improvements and am getting on with my life, and coping better with the constant emotional swings. But ive tried to make a point to my T where we're banging heads. Put all the pretty trappings on you like, all the coping skills, the increased productivity; the essential truth remains unaltered; the core of me is corrupted and damaged. I can behave now to limit the "infection" to others, and I can wear the mask to smooth my way through the world and make life easier for myself and others.

But "I" remain the same.

His response was that sometimes i am "high functioning", sophisticated thought processes, hightly empathetic etc; other times I am one of the most disturbed people he treats. Er, hello, thats exactly my point!

The recovery Ive made means that this no longer makes me suicidal, and self harm is lessening. I can operate in society, and dont disturb people with my obvious distress.

So I guess thats progress.

rebeccaborderline

[MrsDerelictContent]

I have been wanting to reply to this for a few hours now!

I asked a therapist I saw if being ill was part of me 6 days ago. She said she can't possibly say.

I feel like I am not myself anymore. I used to be more, but gradually I am becoming more and more an illness.

Damaged goods!!!!! That is how I feel.

But the wounds don't heal, they only get worse, and they transform.

They will never go away, you just need to manage them... I don't want to! Imagine it like you have to keep changing bandages if you have constant bleeding, infections, problems.... I can't remember the name of the illness.. that reminds me of BPD.

[gardenia]

There are too many sides to me to know which one is the real me.Unfortunately I think they all are, I just like some sides and hate others.

I think I will have this illness forever I always have.I can not remember feeling so elated that I was not wondering when the dark would come.I have good days then bad weeks then good weeks and bad days.I can not imagine it being any different.

And I completely get the "drama" thing as that is mellowing with me too.

I do not think you are damaged I think you are special, I know you said you did not want this shite but I believe we burden this because we are special.Most of us are extremely creative, intelligent, litterate and full of empathy for others because we know how to live in the dark.

[rebeccaborderline]

Nicely put Gardenia.

And if anybody accuses this thread of being "negative" or posts as "hijacking" I shall get quite cross!

The feelings expressed here are realities for us if not for the outside world.

Perhaps Im being paranoid over the new "rules"

rebeccaborderline

[verntheconfused]

I completely understand this.

That is exactly how I am.

I'm not in DBT, so I can't say anything about that but I guess if we really want to get better then we have to work really hard to get there.

Good luck,

Vern

[Miko]

I asked a therapist I saw if being ill was part of me 6 days ago. She said she can't possibly say.

Mrs DC, you asked her when she was without her thinking cap on - I wonder if some have a policy of never having their thinking cap on. Take it from me if you like, illness can be an attribute of soneone, but it does not have to come from them. The usual proportion of whether illness is caused by us or outside of us shall we say is 99:1 (just to pick silly figures). If we wallow in self-pity we can change those figures to say (again silly) 75:25 or 25:75. Mark you this whole affair will still only cover a tiny corner of "who is us". I think it's best that you and I develop our own understanding of what our respective illnesses are and how to stop them damaging our ability to get on with life somehow - to help us get away from regarding ourselves as a pathological blob or blot on the landscape.

Nicely put Gardenia.

And if anybody accuses this thread of being "negative" or posts as "hijacking" I shall get quite cross!

The feelings expressed here are realities for us if not for the outside world.

Perhaps Im being paranoid over the new "rules"

rebeccaborderline

Rebecca,

You are not paranoid, it was hardly explained (except by me )

Telling how a similar situation worked for you is highly empathic

[Miko]

I have been ill so long that it is hightly unlikely my personality and behaviours will ever change.

Fallacy no.1

Pretend to be Mr Scrooge from the story!

Oh sure, I'll learn DBT techniques to help "reduce" my suffering (because, as they say here in DBT, "We can't make you happy, but we can teach you how to better cope," or something to that effect.

Well, Whoopeee!

I suppose I'm being selfish here - the coping skills do help those unfortunates around me by reducing somewhat, my "odd" behaviours and moods, but just controlling myself around people does not change how I feel - it's just left unexpressed.

Do you know what feelings are, and are for? Or even about!!! Or, again, where they come from ...

That is dangerous for me. I end up chewing on and swallowing these feelings which promptly puts my stomach and intestines into knots. Out comes the pills! When it becomes all too much and the feelings have reached their apex (and my mind is swirling with so many fearful thoughts), then I end up, well, you know the rest...

Where is the real healing? How does it stay with you? How can one be "in the moment," change the behaviour pattern, see good results, acknowledge that, hey! I did good today, yet still feel like nothing has changed? Well, for me, it hasn't. BECAUSE I STILL THINK AND FEEL THE SAME WAY! That hasn't changed one bit and sooner or later, it will all come spilling out - again and again and again!

I FEEL LIKE SUCH A HYPOCRITE!!! I'm acting one way and feeling another. This doubles the black/white effect inside me. Who is that better for? (did I happen to mention that I absolutely loathe being hypocritcal; I ranked that as one of the worst feelings, like uncontrolled jealousy).

What a perfectionist! Anyone ever tell you to forget perfectionism? It's a formula for giving yourself a permanent "need" to beat yourself up!

Let yourself off the hook and give yourself a break!

So who am I? If I look at it with my logic, I am nothing more than damaged goods - I am two disparate people in one. One harsh, dogmatic, controlling; the other, overly empathic, overwhelmed with constant sadness and lost.

I call them my hats or facets. Some people call them alters or little people. If we get taken by surprise by them, we can give them a cosy fireside chat about working together and not sabotaging central, shared goals.

That is my personality. Always has been, always will be. I may have mellowed with age as far as the drama goes,

Now you admit it ... Don't knock it!

mostly because I have chosen a life of near-solitude, but the fact is, I will never be who I want to be. I will never be released from this dual-celled prison. I will never even come close to being within the "normal" range personality-wise. It would be ok if I had some extraordinary gift or I was extremely wealthy (people would be less likely to express their disdain toward you), but I am not. I will never mesh with society.

I hope you will immediately be surprise yo what extent you are doing and can be confident of still doing. I'm one of the ones around here with an atrophied cerebellum, and a communication disability that no authority feels it worthwhile to adapt to.

I will always be on the outside looking in.

There are many insides and outsides, not all of them what they seem.

I can only hope that someday things will look brighter, but quite frankly, that is getting harder and harder to do.

Set yourself small targets within the larger ones and keep the larger ones realistic

Please, no pep talks.

Well you just got lots.

I wouldn't believe them anyway.

Shall we just pass by next time?

[allpsychedout]

What a wonderful topic for discussion! Glad you thought of it, and all the responses here have been good for me to read. Cuz, I used to be more like you seem to be now, but have aged out of much of it. Guess I've learned to wear a fake 'good' facade out in public in order to not seem like a total fruitcake; all the overly involved empathy and fear reactions I REALLY experience wouldn't go over too well I'm afraid.

Thus, no 'true' self any longer. Inside I think I know who and what I am, and how I got so 'lost'. I'm certain I do not appear to others quite right, as how IS one supposed to act, as a small, totally invalidated, threatened child anyhow? Maybe lining up the two 'selves' remains a lifetime work in progress and simply improves little by little as the years go by? It's much easier if you don't have to 'fake' it too often.

I can only get by with being as I am since I live a completely solitary life where I don't have to 'pretend' much anymore. Now I get to be creative when I want, act goofy when I want, do childlike things when it feels right, be absolutely lazy when I need lots of extra rest, and not have to worry about it much. Don't ever discount the fact that you MIGHT just already have a special, unique gift within yourself; maybe you simply haven't discovered it yet, but we were born programmed to be this way if anything went 'wrong' so as to finally make our lives worth living, perhaps. From great pain and suffering much good can emerge, later.

What does one do however, when one has nothing left to 'give' and even 'gifts' and creativity seem lost? When physical ailments destroy any little portion of 'authenticity' we used to have? Me, I'm still working on that, or trying to when I feel able enough.

Interesting, the comments here about DBT. I still haven't opened the self-help workbook I bought for it. Now I can't help wondering if all the therapy I had in the past might not have helped me already learn similar concepts, since I seem to have taken on many behaviours taught in DBT? I cannot help agreeing with you, that what IS the point, really, if you can only learn to 'control' yourself outwardly in a proper fashion, while your true pain, rage and fear just ball up inside you and expand until they burst forth in some acting-out incident? It'd be nice to think that eventually, practicing DBT takes ahold and becomes a 'real' part of you but in a way, it seems like yet another invalidation of who you really are inside.

If the way you think you must behave and the way you really feel seem to be two whole separate identities, could it be that your actual real feelings are 'you' as a small child, who needs to be comforted and nurtured so that 'you' can grow up and unite with your other half? Just an idea this topic has given me. There's the so-called Inner Child work, but it is really hard to do on one's own. It's so much easier to parent someone else, rather than that small innocent creature you used to be, before you became so hurt and lost.

I wish you much strength in figuring things out. The path may be just a little different for each of us.

allpsychedout

[Altered State]

Wow! You said that so well...

I too have retreated to a life of solitude - a bit unlike yourself, because I am not near alone, but rather completely alone. Not necessarily by choice mind you, it just seemed one day while fighting the battle of life I looked around and found I had no friends and no family left standing near - it was just me, standing in the middle of this desolate battlefield of broken dreams and empty promises.

If what you say is true about "getting better," that is, still feeling the same way yet having to hold your thoughts and bite your tongue - then what good is it? This I do already, at least until the pressure builds beyond my ability to hold it in (which varies day to day or even minute to minute). I am better off just being alone than trying to be someone I'm not - I have enough problems without adding the titles of hypocrite and liar to my resume!

Ah, yes, well put too, re: fighting the battle. Actually, I think it was the same way with me. Once the dust settled from acknowledging and fighting through an alchohol and drug (softish) addiction, then the realization and treatments for the various mental illnesses I was diagnosed with over the next 15+ years, there was no one left standing around me either (all I saw was me, standing in a pit, observing the collateral damage that had permeated to the borders of my life, and beyond)! Some friends (uh, actually, most) I had to let go for recovery reasons (obviously); some just didn't want to deal with me, drunk or sober, 'cause they watched me go nuts, which I did; and of course, there is the family relationships (for lack of a better description) which I completely demolished years prior. Most friends were just fly-by-nighters anyway. I was always a loner-type; no intimate relationships ever lasted beyond a few months aside from my current. STAY INCOGNITO! was my motto. Look at me now...

I see you also understand EXACTLY how I am dealing with life right now - just like you! However, I can go you one better! I can be such a damn hypocrite and liar by just yakking to myself - all alone - inside my head! It doesn't stop even when there ISN'T anyone around. I suspect you already know that, too!

You know, I am new here. Aside from being around known borderlines in DBT group therapy (which drove me bananas 'cause I thought them way crazier than me and never gave a minutes attention to what they were saying), I am just floored at how stunningly similar our symptoms, thoughts and behaviours are! (kinda creepy! ) And wow, all this time I thought I was soooo special; no one was like meeee... . Can't really go back to therapy with that attitude anymore, now can I? "Ooomph," she says, as the sound of reality hits her squarely in the solar plexus! (What a Drama Queen, eh?)

Thank you LiveWire. Your honesty helps so much. I hope mine helps you too, somehow, except in the way I fear it did - by reaffirming/re-enforcing isolationist behaviour. (Don't you start worrying back - I am taking care not to let this fear take me out. Did that makes sense? I would hate for you and I to start ricocheting off each other into a downward spiral.

Hey, what do you do all day? I'm not exactly sure what I do. Mostly too busy inside my head to notice. Actually, I am trying to re-establish a consistant ritual, even if it is within the confines of my condo. So far I've got a mess of papers with all these plans for my new schedule (I REALLY HATE messy papers), and now I am totally avoiding the room their in. Doin' well, here!

Later!

[Altered State]

Altered,what a good and thoughtful post.

The only thing I can say,is to do with your two selfs,the harsh controlling one,and the over empathic one.Wouldnt it be helpful if they both met,and worked together?Then when you have strong feelings which one side of you cant express,and the other can only say it in a way which upset others,then they can counter balance each other.You can learn to say how your feel,and wont have to resort to pills or alcohol.

Introduce them?!! I do keep trying that - DBT is helping me to see that necessity. Although I recognized the black/white thinking long ago, I could never manage to figure out a way to bring them together. Actually, it never really crossed my mind to do this because each one, individually, had served their function very well in the past (surprisingly) when the appropriate conditions arose.

At this point, when I do introduce them, each one takes their turn kicking the crap out of the other, mostly because they are newly acquainted. But at least there's contact, right?! My pendulum still swings quite a bit between the extremes, but being more fully aware (oh, my therapist would love to hear me say this...) IS helping. Time, patience, blah, blah, blah...

I have been responding individually to my first posted message ever (which I will never do again, by the way - I've been here since 6 am writing, editing and re-editing and your only my second REPLY!!! It's now almost noon!) I do, however, want to thank you for your input. I constantly need reminding of what my goals ought to be and this is definitely the first step needed before any changes can be effected.

This is what I was wanting so much when I came to this site - connection with people who truly understand and with whom I can't really b.s.

I love this!

[Altered State]

i dont know how long you have been practicing dbt but it does take time. just because you have finished the course doesnt mean all the changes have internalized, they are still a struggle.

i would say that you are all the things you have mentioned and the choice is up to you who wins. you have to fight to let the good side of you be the victor.

good luck.... you did ask for no pep talk

bets

True, didn't want a pep talk, except I forgot, that is what this site is mostly for, right? Miko was good enough to clue me into this fact.

I have been in DBT for a little over a year, but currently on a "vacation." I needed a break anyway. I will be returning shortly. You are correct about the the internalization process - I have yet to give it enough time. I have noticed small changes, but as i am sure you can relate, it seems like such a slow and agonizing process.

I have yet to decide which I will ultimately let win (you know, I do believe I ACTUALLY have that ability to choose which way I will go in spite of my protestations about my inability to do so. And deep down, I think my heart is good although my conscience leads me to believe otherwise. Biggest obtstacle that keeps resurfacing more than any other is a severe lack of motivation. It's like hanging in suspended animation.

The struggle will contine. Thanks for your advice.

:)

[Altered State]

I so get what being talked about here because its me too.

"Solitude"; yes; not deliberately but finding that you're standing all alone now, and the grim acceptance of such.

On paper Ive made marked improvements and am getting on with my life, and coping better with the constant emotional swings. But ive tried to make a point to my T where we're banging heads. Put all the pretty trappings on you like, all the coping skills, the increased productivity; the essential truth remains unaltered; the core of me is corrupted and damaged. I can behave now to limit the "infection" to others, and I can wear the mask to smooth my way through the world and make life easier for myself and others.

But "I" remain the same.

His response was that sometimes i am "high functioning", sophisticated thought processes, hightly empathetic etc; other times I am one of the most disturbed people he treats. Er, hello, thats exactly my point!

The recovery Ive made means that this no longer makes me suicidal, and self harm is lessening. I can operate in society, and dont disturb people with my obvious distress.

So I guess thats progress.

rebeccaborderline

I needed to hear that. I was having serious doubts about the effectiveness of DBT for me. I read that we are known to be "notoriously difficult to treat," and I have proven to be in that category. If there is hope for you when you are in your "other times," (and I am, for arguments sake, putting you at the very far edge of most disturbed! ) and are still able to find some control, then, yeah, I would say that's progress, and that maybe I shouldn't be so quick to judge.

[pip]

We are who we are

It is very difficult to change your personality

You just have to learn to deal with it

sorry

pip

[Altered State]

There are too many sides to me to know which one is the real me.Unfortunately I think they all are, I just like some sides and hate others.

I think I will have this illness forever I always have.I can not remember feeling so elated that I was not wondering when the dark would come.I have good days then bad weeks then good weeks and bad days.I can not imagine it being any different.

And I completely get the "drama" thing as that is mellowing with me too.

I do not think you are damaged I think you are special, I know you said you did not want this shite but I believe we burden this because we are special.Most of us are extremely creative, intelligent, litterate and full of empathy for others because we know how to live in the dark.

I think I have to agree with you - I can't imagine things being any other way either. Not meaning to sound arrogant here, but I always thought and felt that there was something "special" (not "touched-in-the-head-special") about me - different from everyone else. Very Unique. ALONE. I am very creative, intelligent (hard to convince others sometimes, though, of my intellectual greatness! ) and I do have deep empathy for others. I can easily absorb others' pain.

What I also do, however, is use the empathy meant for others for my own purpose. I hijack it (seems to be a popular word today) to fuel my anxieties - ON PURPOSE!. If my mind is quiet, I get weirded out. I cannot even enjoy a moment's solitude. I'll even go as low as to "use" someone else's pain as my own. Now THAT is twisted!

Gotta think of how to use this "life in the dark" to create something, rather than destroy something/everything.

By the way, you pep-talked me!

Thanks

I completely understand this.

That is exactly how I am.

I'm not in DBT, so I can't say anything about that but I guess if we really want to get better then we have to work really hard to get there.

Good luck,

Vern

So, no therapy? Ever? How do you deal? Great Footnote! aahhh, sleeping - my favorite thing to do!

I asked a therapist I saw if being ill was part of me 6 days ago. She said she can't possibly say.

Mrs DC, you asked her when she was without her thinking cap on - I wonder if some have a policy of never having their thinking cap on. Take it from me if you like, illness can be an attribute of soneone, but it does not have to come from them. The usual proportion of whether illness is caused by us or outside of us shall we say is 99:1 (just to pick silly figures). If we wallow in self-pity we can change those figures to say (again silly) 75:25 or 25:75. Mark you this whole affair will still only cover a tiny corner of "who is us". I think it's best that you and I develop our own understanding of what our respective illnesses are and how to stop them damaging our ability to get on with life somehow - to help us get away from regarding ourselves as a pathological blob or blot on the landscape.

Nicely put Gardenia.

And if anybody accuses this thread of being "negative" or posts as "hijacking" I shall get quite cross!

The feelings expressed here are realities for us if not for the outside world.

Perhaps Im being paranoid over the new "rules"

rebeccaborderline

Rebecca,

You are not paranoid, it was hardly explained (except by me )

Telling how a similar situation worked for you is highly empathic

So "this" conversation here is what is considered to be a thread being hijacked?

[mort]

(((Altered)))

I have been doing dbt for 9 months and have 3 to go. We get a year where I am and I feel lucky to get it at all.

Sometimes I resent the fact that I have been made aware of the way that my old coping skills have such a negative impact on myself and those around me. Sometimes I embrace it wholeheartedly. It literally depends on where I am emotionally at the time.

For me I am now aware that although I can't always see it as a positive thing, my new found awareness has made my life a little easier coz I am also spending less time on beating myself up for doing what deep down I always knew were harmful ways of expressing my emotional turmoil. Communicating pain to others is so hard but by being open and honest we can get there.

The turmoil is still there but at times I am more capable of handling it. I have been shown through dbt that there are choices and that has given me hope. At times I only carry on with it because others seem to believe in it so much but I hope that for whatever reasons you can build on all the hard work you have put in so far.

I found the following on this site (in an area on child abuse) and I hope it isn't wrong to post it, but it helps me when I feel like giving up. Hope it helps you.

QUOTE-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

"Though sometimes I want to crawl into a dark place and hide from reality and other times I want to give up completely, I GO ON. I do not know where this "healing" will lead me, I live on other people's hopes. I live on other people's faith that life will get better. I continue to wonder whether it is worth it, but I GO ON. This then is healing."

QUOTE--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Sorry if it was wrong to post it but even tho I wish no one had to feel this way, I find it so helpful that someone else has been or is going through similar things to me, yet is still able to carry on.

Keep up all your hard work, you might not see it at times but you are doing well by being you.

tc

mort x

I believe that any way we find to change to less harmful ways is for the best for us and those around us and dbt has changed my life for the better (even if the negative me doesn't like to acknowledge that at times). :)

[Altered State]

I have been ill so long that it is hightly unlikely my personality and behaviours will ever change.

Fallacy no.1

Pretend to be Mr Scrooge from the story!

Oh sure, I'll learn DBT techniques to help "reduce" my suffering (because, as they say here in DBT, "We can't make you happy, but we can teach you how to better cope," or something to that effect.

Well, Whoopeee!

I suppose I'm being selfish here - the coping skills do help those unfortunates around me by reducing somewhat, my "odd" behaviours and moods, but just controlling myself around people does not change how I feel - it's just left unexpressed.

Do you know what feelings are, and are for? Or even about!!! Or, again, where they come from ...

That is dangerous for me. I end up chewing on and swallowing these feelings which promptly puts my stomach and intestines into knots. Out comes the pills! When it becomes all too much and the feelings have reached their apex (and my mind is swirling with so many fearful thoughts), then I end up, well, you know the rest...

Where is the real healing? How does it stay with you? How can one be "in the moment," change the behaviour pattern, see good results, acknowledge that, hey! I did good today, yet still feel like nothing has changed? Well, for me, it hasn't. BECAUSE I STILL THINK AND FEEL THE SAME WAY! That hasn't changed one bit and sooner or later, it will all come spilling out - again and again and again!

I FEEL LIKE SUCH A HYPOCRITE!!! I'm acting one way and feeling another. This doubles the black/white effect inside me. Who is that better for? (did I happen to mention that I absolutely loathe being hypocritcal; I ranked that as one of the worst feelings, like uncontrolled jealousy).

What a perfectionist! Anyone ever tell you to forget perfectionism? It's a formula for giving yourself a permanent "need" to beat yourself up!

Let yourself off the hook and give yourself a break!

So who am I? If I look at it with my logic, I am nothing more than damaged goods - I am two disparate people in one. One harsh, dogmatic, controlling; the other, overly empathic, overwhelmed with constant sadness and lost.

I call them my hats or facets. Some people call them alters or little people. If we get taken by surprise by them, we can give them a cosy fireside chat about working together and not sabotaging central, shared goals.

That is my personality. Always has been, always will be. I may have mellowed with age as far as the drama goes,

Now you admit it ... Don't knock it!

mostly because I have chosen a life of near-solitude, but the fact is, I will never be who I want to be. I will never be released from this dual-celled prison. I will never even come close to being within the "normal" range personality-wise. It would be ok if I had some extraordinary gift or I was extremely wealthy (people would be less likely to express their disdain toward you), but I am not. I will never mesh with society.

I hope you will immediately be surprise yo what extent you are doing and can be confident of still doing.

I'm one of the ones around here with an atrophied cerebellum, and a communication disability that no authority feels it worthwhile to adapt to.

I will always be on the outside looking in.

There are many insides and outsides, not all of them what they seem.

I can only hope that someday things will look brighter, but quite frankly, that is getting harder and harder to do.

Set yourself small targets within the larger ones and keep the larger ones realistic

Please, no pep talks.

Well you just got lots.

I wouldn't believe them anyway.

Shall we just pass by next time?

Okay! Where to start? Where to end? Thanks for the shit-kicking I think I'll just pick up my ball and stick and go home now....

Seriously, though, I ain't gonna touch this one just yet. May I ask what you meant by:

I'm one of the ones around here with an atrophied cerebellum, and a communication disability that no authority feels it worthwhile to adapt to.

I believe decorum should dictate and must hold my comment when I have no knowledge of another's illness and, therefore, may not quite understand where they are coming from. I can see my foot and I just don't want it in my mouth right now. I will have plenty of opportunities for that, I just don't want it to be on my first forum topic posting (if I haven't already stuck it in there). Know what I mean?

I will say this, though: No, I don't to be passed by next time or any time. I really should have posted under "Attention Seekers." I got all caught up in my pout-fest and forgot that responses, opinions and validation is exactly what I came here for in the first place! Oopsie! (I would shrink my font size to express my embarrassment right now, if I knew how to do it).

Later?

".... I - don't want - clever con-ver-sa-tion; I never want to work that hard; hm-m-m-m-m;

I just want someone - that I can talk to - I want you just the way your a-a-a-are..." (singin' Billy Joel - it was just on the radio).

I await your reply with bated breath! This could possibly get real interesting!

[Altered State]

What a wonderful topic for discussion! Glad you thought of it, and all the responses here have been good for me to read. Cuz, I used to be more like you seem to be now, but have aged out of much of it. Guess I've learned to wear a fake 'good' facade out in public in order to not seem like a total fruitcake; all the overly involved empathy and fear reactions I REALLY experience wouldn't go over too well I'm afraid.

Thus, no 'true' self any longer. Inside I think I know who and what I am, and how I got so 'lost'. I'm certain I do not appear to others quite right, as how IS one supposed to act, as a small, totally invalidated, threatened child anyhow? Maybe lining up the two 'selves' remains a lifetime work in progress and simply improves little by little as the years go by? It's much easier if you don't have to 'fake' it too often.

I can only get by with being as I am since I live a completely solitary life where I don't have to 'pretend' much anymore. Now I get to be creative when I want, act goofy when I want, do childlike things when it feels right, be absolutely lazy when I need lots of extra rest, and not have to worry about it much. Don't ever discount the fact that you MIGHT just already have a special, unique gift within yourself; maybe you simply haven't discovered it yet, but we were born programmed to be this way if anything went 'wrong' so as to finally make our lives worth living, perhaps. From great pain and suffering much good can emerge, later.

What does one do however, when one has nothing left to 'give' and even 'gifts' and creativity seem lost? When physical ailments destroy any little portion of 'authenticity' we used to have? Me, I'm still working on that, or trying to when I feel able enough.

Interesting, the comments here about DBT. I still haven't opened the self-help workbook I bought for it. Now I can't help wondering if all the therapy I had in the past might not have helped me already learn similar concepts, since I seem to have taken on many behaviours taught in DBT? I cannot help agreeing with you, that what IS the point, really, if you can only learn to 'control' yourself outwardly in a proper fashion, while your true pain, rage and fear just ball up inside you and expand until they burst forth in some acting-out incident? It'd be nice to think that eventually, practicing DBT takes ahold and becomes a 'real' part of you but in a way, it seems like yet another invalidation of who you really are inside.

If the way you think you must behave and the way you really feel seem to be two whole separate identities, could it be that your actual real feelings are 'you' as a small child, who needs to be comforted and nurtured so that 'you' can grow up and unite with your other half? Just an idea this topic has given me. There's the so-called Inner Child work, but it is really hard to do on one's own. It's so much easier to parent someone else, rather than that small innocent creature you used to be, before you became so hurt and lost.

I wish you much strength in figuring things out. The path may be just a little different for each of us.

allpsychedout

I have been totally blown away at the depth of understanding that I have received from everyone here. I finally feel like I don't have to scream at the top of my lungs and jump up and down to get people to understand what I am trying to say! (I guess that answers your last question). If my saying so right here is not proof enough, let me tell you my favorite saying: "We know who we are, yet know not what we may be." - Hamlet, Act 4, Scene V, or something like that. (not trying to be a snot, just studied Hamlet not too long ago and this line had such resonance, so to speak, and I have been unable to forget it since).

I don't know if you have been following all my replies or not (I have been going through, one by one, trying to answer each response I received on my first post ever. Yes, I know, how anal! ) but if I were to pick one response that I would have used to continue my conversation, it would be this one.

(You know, this if fucking me up, now. I can't even begin to explain that blurt! Well, guess I could, just can say it in less than 10,000 words or what the hell is the limit? - 102,400 characters?). If I wrote a book, would you edit it?

You know what, I just can't finish this. I have been on-line for a while and am beginning to see double. Will definitely finish this conversation soon.

Later.

[Athas]

Great you started this topic, Altered. I've been thinking a lot about all this too, especially the question about who I am and how much of who I am is BPD and how much is just me.

I have to admit I've been a little naive concerning therapy. I don't do DBT, but to me it seemed like therapy was first and foremost for me to get better. I don't know why during the past ten months the thought that it's rather supposed to help others than me never occured to me. I guess it was because it seemed like my therapist was concerned about me. The thought that the real concern might be about others not being hurt that much by me anymore scares me. I'll see my t today so I can talk about that with her and I really, really hope that this therapy is, as I thought, for me to get healthy.

Can any of you imagine what you'd be like, or who you'd be without this disease and all the trouble and the pain? My dad once wrote to me that maybe my being special was one of the reasons why I got BPD, because nobody would understand the way I see things. But what if BPD cuased my being special? Wouldn't I be special without it? I see my youngest sister and she's special while being totally healthy. My mother said I'd be like her without BPD, but one can never know that. Now I'm confused.

On a side-note, do you think DBT is vital for getting better? A few months ago, my t said she was trying to get me into a DBT-group but it was difficult because of the circumstances (she's a doctor at hospital and being my therapist is a sort of exception, usually she doesn't do that). I told her I didn't really want it anyway because i was scared of being in direct contact with other BPD-patients and so she dropped it. I'm still making moire progress than I ever did before, but people talk so much about DBT.

[realscape]

Hi Altered

Have only just read this thread. Going back to your original post, I totally relate to where you're at and how you feel.

I don't know how or if our 'real' personalities can be aligned (or integrated) into one core central stable self where a general set of beliefs, values, and behaviours are steadily maintained. I have the same polarised and conflicting switches of personality. I was diagnosed three years ago as being "high functioning". Now, after some therapy which I strongly believe was abusive, I am almost completely "non functioning".

So now I'm not sure whether the therapy was deliberately designed to release me from the 'unreal' me, ie, the one who was capable and hopeful and confident and ambitious and was probably what they shrinks would call ego-driven. Or whether it was just genuinely abuse, and has left me totally destroyed. However, the outcome is that I feel more now than ever before like the withdrawn, isolated, hopeless, scared, and dispairing child I was. I suppose that is the 'real' me.

The reason I am telling you this is not to go off on a ramble about me but to point out that possibly the 'unreal' parts of our personalities are all of those survival mechanisms and tools that we used to 'get by' when we were small and scared and abused children. Drink and drugs kill off the automatic negative thoughts in our minds according to psychologists, the ones that were planted by our parents, so in Transactional Analysis terms, drink and drugs are known as "parent shrinkers". That is maybe why we feel more free and able when we drink because we are released from some abusive messages to ourselves. Maybe when we drink we really are the real us?

I dunno. I will read this thread again because I didn't read it thoroughly. But on the whole I do think there is possibility of change of behaviour and that not all behaviours and thoughts must be persistent and life long. Therefore, I believe different aspects of our different personalities can be let go and maybe a sort of single personality built. Facing up to it and asking the questions is the beginning.

x REal

[LiveWire]

Altered State - First, I'm glad you have a renewed confidence in DBT! I really do hope that some success can be realized in your life through it... (sorry for the pep type statement)

Do our brains ever tire? Do they ever take some time off? The "yakking" as you so descriptively call it seems endless, but its more than just empty conversation between the right and left sides of the brain - at least for me - this constant analysis of life, childhood abuse (though rare now), current abuses, family relations, endless circles of searching for answers seems to never take rest. It can easily consume the entire day, the week, the month, the year...then decades go by and I'm still swirling around in the same vortex - no closer to the answer, no closer to the truth.

The therapist says, find something else to do. I say, how? I've been trying to find something for over 30 years and have been unsuccessful. What makes you think I'm going to change now, just because you pose the same question I've been asking all along? But this is your only chance he says, so take it. If a drowning man is not able to swim, do you yell at him, SWIM or you will die? What good is that?

So, what do I do with my time? I do as you do...I think, I generate rituals and routines, and I listen to music to quiet my mind...My tiny apartment is all I need and all I want. I have my computer, my I-Pod, a Tele and for a hobby I take photographs with my digital SLR camera. I have set up a spreadsheet to monitor everything I eat to watch my calories and weight. My current goal - which I am very successful at is a 1300 calorie a day intake. I'm losing about 2 lbs a week or 1kg. I'm 5' 11" which is 180cm and used to weigh 243lbs or 110.22kg in March and now weigh 192lbs or 87.09kg. Mind you, I have not been consuming just 1300 calories the entire 6 months - much of the time it was around 1500 calories/day. My goal is to weigh about 170lbs or 77.11kg.

Take care...

[realscape]

Hi LiveWire

What you have written makes me feel that yet again the only way any of us is truly going to recover is through a 'rescue' intervention type scenario. I used to be strongly opposed to such thinking but it is true that when the drowning man is drowning and he cannot swim, if you are humane, you hoik him out of the water instead of berating him from the shore about what a useless twat he is and analysing where his swimming skills are going wrong.

x Real