My Real Personality

[shadowedseraph]

This is a really good topic, and, like everyone else here its really touched a nerve with me, especially die to my current train of thought which i've decided to air here. My CPN goes on and on about DBT how its going to be great etc etc as if its a magical cure for my BPD, which i doubt, so.... is there a magical cure in therapy?

[realscape]

Jus something else to add into this extensive subject whilst I'm thinking of it. I have a few friends with MH and addiction problems. We discuss stuff like this deeply for hours (s'true, honest!) and we read lots and we have had various therapies and treatments. The two points that we have agreed on so far are that:

1) nothing and nobody and no drug and no therapy can give you back what is missing when you didn't have one good and emotionally sufficient stable parent or carer (or if you were violated as a child) because it is a permanent and lifelong disability that has to be learned to be lived with but cannot be completely overcome, in the same way as being born with a limb missing or having a limb chopped off, it will always be not there;

2) the bits of our personalities that the shrinks try to get rid of or call our 'other selves' or 'addictive personalities' or suchlike are no more or no less than any other bit of our personalities and can never be just 'got rid of' like having an abortion or throwing out the trash.

Not saying its the truth or not the truth but that's where me and my mates are at in our discussions.

[LiveWire]

Realscape - I think you are completely in touch... I know for myself, I want desperately to be rescued, but I am also very happy when I can rescue others as well. The thing about being rescued myself is I refuse to ask directly for help, I refuse to ask anyone for exactly what I need (I suppose because I really don't know) - it is always some distorted maladaptive defensive destructive behavior that pushes everyone away...I just want someone to give a damn, I want someone to love me, to want me and to care for me, because inside everything is so twisted and hurt...

[Altered State]

We are who we are

It is very difficult to change your personality

You just have to learn to deal with it

sorry

pip

No need to apologize, pip. Your explanation was direct, on point, and expressed the reality of our illness. When put like that, what more can one say?

Thanks pip. :)

[realscape]

Being rescued is possible. But not really on the NHS. And really not probably in private treatment centres.

In fact, the best way of getting rescued at the moment is to probably offer yourself up for some type of reality TV intervention recovery programme. I am considering it.

I am wondering why. There is Gillian and her bad diet prog. There is drug addiction Intervention. There is How Clean Is Your House. There is My Teens a Nightmare. There is My Husband is a Woman. There is How to Increase your House Price. There is Britains Worst Neighbour. There is Have loads of Surgery. There is Don't have loads of Surgery. There is every fucking There Is ...... except..... There is 25% of all adult women and 10% of all adult men in this country with diagnosable depression and what to do about it.

I am seriously considering offering myself up for some type of TV reality show where they force people under duvets to get help and recovery. Of course, it could be a bit lengthy and frustrating which is probably why they prefer 'Get new tits' to 'Get a new Life' but there's always hope.......

[Sabbath]

Realscape - I think you are completely in touch... I know for myself, I want desperately to be rescued, but I am also very happy when I can rescue others as well. The thing about being rescued myself is I refuse to ask directly for help, I refuse to ask anyone for exactly what I need (I suppose because I really don't know)

I have the same problem. Most of the self help books I've read say something along the lines of: Before you can achieve your goal, you must first have a clear idea of what that goal is. That's where I always fall short. I've tested many different social roles, but none of them offer a lasting sense of satisfaction. I've been deeply unhappy while surrounded by good friends. I've had to quite jobs I love because they make me too angry. At this point in my life I don't have a clue what I REALLY want. Do I really want anything? This gives rise to the killer question: If nothing makes me happy, why bother doing anything?

I can understand the desire to be rescued. How does one get rescued from one's self? The only answer I've found so far isn't very nice.

[realscape]

Hi Sabbath

I don't really want to do anything either. And I used to do lots of things. And I used to think the feeling would pass and it hasn't after several years now. Which leads me to the conclusion that I am suicidal. And I don't do anything about it because if I wasn't really suicidal I would do something about it. On the odd occaision where I have had the opportunity to discuss this with an MH professional, they seem to think that saying I am suicidal is an act of manipulation and refuse to discuss it. Which leaves me back to square one except a little bit further along the way. So yeh, I dunno, the logical conclusion is the logical conclusion.

[Altered State]

Ok, I can't believe this - I lost the message again!!!! (3rd time!)

TO WHOMEVER GETS THIS MESSAGE: This is a continuation of a response to a message to allpsychedout in the BPD forum, under "My Real Personality." If this is not you, could you let me know? Thanks!

Altered State:)

I get the sense that you are a religious/spiritual person by the nature of your response re unique gifts. I have found much solace and comfort in cultivating a relationship with God (Oh, and I haven't offed myself! ) Although, like everything else, my faith swings wildly too, but I don't really worry about that too much, because I figure He ought to know where I truly stand, even if I don't!

I think I am special; the more I learn about borderline disorders, the more I believe that we are all gifted - I mean, who else can clearly see the black and white in things - the majority are stuck in greysville. Rather dull, in my opinion. It's just so freaky seeing things in such extremes all the time! Hey, maybe seeing things in black and white so quickly in a situation allows us to see the potential pitfalls of each side of the argument before they actually happen? I say pitfalls because do we not tend toward the dark side? Maybe that is what causes our anxieties and paralasis and pre-emptive anger. What do you think? Sound nuts?

You know what? I am going to send this portion off to you right now, just to make sure it gets where it's suppose to. I don't want to babble on and on, only to find out I have to rewrite again!

To be continued....

[Sabbath]

Hi Sabbath

I don't really want to do anything either. And I used to do lots of things. And I used to think the feeling would pass and it hasn't after several years now. Which leads me to the conclusion that I am suicidal. And I don't do anything about it because if I wasn't really suicidal I would do something about it. On the odd occaision where I have had the opportunity to discuss this with an MH professional, they seem to think that saying I am suicidal is an act of manipulation and refuse to discuss it. Which leaves me back to square one except a little bit further along the way. So yeh, I dunno, the logical conclusion is the logical conclusion.

Hello to you too

That's the odd thing... A couple of years ago I tried to kill myself, but I just couldn't bring myself to finnish the job properly. Clearly, I don't really want to die. On the other hand, I don't want to live like this forever. So where the heck does that leave me? As other people here have said, I obsessively analysing my thoughts and actions. I've ended up in a logic pit. When I'm designing objects/tools I can use my creative problem solving to fix most design issues. But life is a circular question.

[rebeccaborderline]

Great you started this topic, Altered. I've been thinking a lot about all this too, especially the question about who I am and how much of who I am is BPD and how much is just me.

I have to admit I've been a little naive concerning therapy. I don't do DBT, but to me it seemed like therapy was first and foremost for me to get better. I don't know why during the past ten months the thought that it's rather supposed to help others than me never occured to me. I guess it was because it seemed like my therapist was concerned about me. The thought that the real concern might be about others not being hurt that much by me anymore scares me. I'll see my t today so I can talk about that with her and I really, really hope that this therapy is, as I thought, for me to get healthy.

Can any of you imagine what you'd be like, or who you'd be without this disease and all the trouble and the pain? My dad once wrote to me that maybe my being special was one of the reasons why I got BPD, because nobody would understand the way I see things. But what if BPD cuased my being special? Wouldn't I be special without it? I see my youngest sister and she's special while being totally healthy. My mother said I'd be like her without BPD, but one can never know that. Now I'm confused.

On a side-note, do you think DBT is vital for getting better? A few months ago, my t said she was trying to get me into a DBT-group but it was difficult because of the circumstances (she's a doctor at hospital and being my therapist is a sort of exception, usually she doesn't do that). I told her I didn't really want it anyway because i was scared of being in direct contact with other BPD-patients and so she dropped it. I'm still making moire progress than I ever did before, but people talk so much about DBT.

Hi Athas,

My therapist is a psychoanalytical psychotherapist, not DBT, but hes been great for me. Helps that he's ex-Mental Health nurse, and has expertise in dual diagnosis and childhood sexual abuse. He also runs East Kent Alcohol Unit where many people present with MH probs too, so they have many staff with varied expertise. When I asked him about different therapies and BPD his opinion is that its less about the type of therapy and more about the quality of therapist, which makes sense to me.

rebeccaborderline

[realscape]

That's the odd thing... A couple of years ago I tried to kill myself, but I just couldn't bring myself to finnish the job properly. Clearly, I don't really want to die. On the other hand, I don't want to live like this forever. So where the heck does that leave me? As other people here have said, I obsessively analysing my thoughts and actions. I've ended up in a logic pit. When I'm designing objects/tools I can use my creative problem solving to fix most design issues. But life is a circular question.

Hi Sabbath

Yeah, totally relate to this.

As Robbie Williams says "I don't wanna die, but I ain't keen on living either". As everyone in Steven Fry's manic depression docu said, "I don't want to be alive but I wouldn't want to act on suicide [paraphrased]".

I have never made a serious attempt at suicide, but I have done lots of dangerous things without consciously considering they were suicidal, and have never actively tried to kill myself one way or another.

The problem for me was when I realised that every act I performed was an act of death although not direct suicide and that made me realise that I cannot fully consciously be happily alive because something is blocking me, something subconscious. Starting things, never finishing them. Dangerous drinking and drugging. Destroying and being unfaithful in all relationships. Self-starving. Sabotaging jobs and opportunities. Blah blah. I jus dunno where it ends but that is the 'real' me, all others were fake pretentions or disguises. The thing is, if the 'real' me is the death instinct, then what does that mean, that I need to die? I dunno, we're saying the same thing I think?

[Altered State]

Quick question? Ever finish anything?

[realscape]

Answer to question. No. I have never finished anything.

Have had three years of counselling, therapy, CBT, psychoanalysis, psychiatry.

The only meaningful thing that was ever said was "you are unable to sustain things", that brought me to my knees because I knew it was true. It was true then and it is true now. No other single thing ever said to me in any therapy session meant anything apart from that.

[LiveWire]

Quick question? Ever finish anything?

Not unless it involved a roll of toilet paper...

Sorry, but that's the first stupid thing that popped into my head...

[Altered State]

Great you started this topic, Altered. I've been thinking a lot about all this too, especially the question about who I am and how much of who I am is BPD and how much is just me.

I have to admit I've been a little naive concerning therapy. I don't do DBT, but to me it seemed like therapy was first and foremost for me to get better. I don't know why during the past ten months the thought that it's rather supposed to help others than me never occured to me. I guess it was because it seemed like my therapist was concerned about me. The thought that the real concern might be about others not being hurt that much by me anymore scares me. I'll see my t today so I can talk about that with her and I really, really hope that this therapy is, as I thought, for me to get healthy.

Can any of you imagine what you'd be like, or who you'd be without this disease and all the trouble and the pain? My dad once wrote to me that maybe my being special was one of the reasons why I got BPD, because nobody would understand the way I see things. But what if BPD cuased my being special? Wouldn't I be special without it? I see my youngest sister and she's special while being totally healthy. My mother said I'd be like her without BPD, but one can never know that. Now I'm confused.

On a side-note, do you think DBT is vital for getting better? A few months ago, my t said she was trying to get me into a DBT-group but it was difficult because of the circumstances (she's a doctor at hospital and being my therapist is a sort of exception, usually she doesn't do that). I told her I didn't really want it anyway because i was scared of being in direct contact with other BPD-patients and so she dropped it. I'm still making moire progress than I ever did before, but people talk so much about DBT.

I wasn't going to answer any more responses (it's getting pretty messy in here!), but I thought your remark about being around other BPD's was rather amusing! When I entered therapy, I didn't consider that. Personally, I didn't like the group thing, mostly because I don't do well in public. I tend to be very defensive and aggressive. I upset people easily and frequently! I also did not like seeing myself reflected back at me through the behaviours I was witnessing from the other members - not a pretty picture. Of course, I had just learned about my diagnosis and did not know much about it before I went bounding gingerly into class. I won't make that mistake again.

I think I may have misled you to believe that DBT is more for others than for yourself. What I should have said was this: practicing DBT should modify your behaviours enough to control yourself so as not to create the havoc we are so used to creating around us (for whatever reasons) thereby driving everyone away and/or creating an isolationist attitude because of the consequences of our behaviour. (Apparently) This is suppose to translate into less stress and greater confidence within ourselves which will re-enforce these new and positive behaviours, thereby creating a new cycle of better behaviours and ultimately a higher sense of self-esteem, etc. There is also something interesting called Mindfullness in DBT. This helps you integrate your thoughts and feelings into one cohesive and balanced view of any given situation. I found this very helpful, but it is not something that can be done in a split second. It takes alot of internal reasoning skills, which we are not very good at to begin with. This is where the one-on-one therapy comes in. The therapist helps you to break it down so you can see the individual thoughts and feelings that create the chaos in your mind. Once you have been able to reach a balance perspective about an issue that you have difficulty with, it is easier to deal with when you are again confronted with it. (Until you find another thought/feeling to through into the mix)

Do I think DBT is vital to getting better? It is the only therapy out there for people suffering from BPD that has had the highest measurable positive effect on its patients (according to mental health critics), so for me I think it is vital. Although I have good insight into my own personal habits, cycles, behaviours, etc., I do not have the skill to change them. I don't even have the willpower. And I am desperate. I almost have myself convinced that this is my "last chance." Now, my logic says that ridiculous, but my emotions (which is a WAY bigger influence) holds sway.

This is a huge decision you must make for yourself. What you read about this type of therapy from patients is not really a good idea. There are just way to many different views out there. Even my view of DBT changes all the time.

Research it. A good site is to go directly to the University of Washington, Seattle, where the therapy's founder (Marsha Linehan, Ph.D) is located. You can find a detailed explanation of what it is all about. There are also some other good sites that critique her research. Oh yeah, I think you can talk with some professional on this site about it, too!

Kudos for making progress on your own. What are you doing? I could always use new tips!

Quick question? Ever finish anything?

Not unless it involved a roll of toilet paper...

Sorry, but that's the first stupid thing that popped into my head...

This is a really good topic, and, like everyone else here its really touched a nerve with me, especially die to my current train of thought which i've decided to air here. My CPN goes on and on about DBT how its going to be great etc etc as if its a magical cure for my BPD, which i doubt, so.... is there a magical cure in therapy?

Let me know after you've tried it! :)

[realscape]

Hi

I am not negating the importance of DBT but I was very fortunate in having a lot of older friends who have been thru the best treatment centres in the world at the time when I crashed and burned. They have in the 70s 80s and 90s been in the best treatment centres in the world. They guided me through what as far I can I concieve are the principles of CBT / DBT and good communication skills (albeit from quite a patronising standpoint).

I completely agree that our survival systems are not sustainable and that our backgrounds have given us the wrong messages.

Unfortunately, I have not been able to sustain cleanliness from drugs and alcohol and neither has anybody I know. Neither has anybody I know been able to create good communication with their family and friends. That is despite them going thru expensive treatment progs. The ones who have proclaimed superior cleanliness and evolution have relapsed worse than they were before (for example requiring amputations) and some are dead and some are in prison on life sentences.

I don't deliberately want to destroy the opportunity for recovery but I personally since the 80s have seen no recovery. To me, it doesn't seem to be about communication skills but about in built feelings of worthlessness that cannot be over ridden so easily. I wish I could feel more hope.

[Altered State]

Hi Altered

Have only just read this thread. Going back to your original post, I totally relate to where you're at and how you feel.

I don't know how or if our 'real' personalities can be aligned (or integrated) into one core central stable self where a general set of beliefs, values, and behaviours are steadily maintained. I have the same polarised and conflicting switches of personality. I was diagnosed three years ago as being "high functioning". Now, after some therapy which I strongly believe was abusive, I am almost completely "non functioning".

So now I'm not sure whether the therapy was deliberately designed to release me from the 'unreal' me, ie, the one who was capable and hopeful and confident and ambitious and was probably what they shrinks would call ego-driven. Or whether it was just genuinely abuse, and has left me totally destroyed. However, the outcome is that I feel more now than ever before like the withdrawn, isolated, hopeless, scared, and dispairing child I was. I suppose that is the 'real' me.

The reason I am telling you this is not to go off on a ramble about me but to point out that possibly the 'unreal' parts of our personalities are all of those survival mechanisms and tools that we used to 'get by' when we were small and scared and abused children. Drink and drugs kill off the automatic negative thoughts in our minds according to psychologists, the ones that were planted by our parents, so in Transactional Analysis terms, drink and drugs are known as "parent shrinkers". That is maybe why we feel more free and able when we drink because we are released from some abusive messages to ourselves. Maybe when we drink we really are the real us?

I dunno. I will read this thread again because I didn't read it thoroughly. But on the whole I do think there is possibility of change of behaviour and that not all behaviours and thoughts must be persistent and life long. Therefore, I believe different aspects of our different personalities can be let go and maybe a sort of single personality built. Facing up to it and asking the questions is the beginning.

x REal

Bad therapy. Like we don't have enough issues...

As respects the sef-medicating - that is EXACTLY what it did for me, and courage, gave me lots and lots of courage - way, way too much courage after a while.

I will concede; I too, believe I can change. I no longer have the motivation to. For all the desire I have to want to change, I just don't understand where this profound lack of motivation is coming from.