lille_eskimit Posted December 4, 2004 Report Share Posted December 4, 2004 Hiya! Just a little confused about something, and wondered if someone here could clear things up. It says in the main part of this site that BPD is considered a legitimate form of mental illness "in accordance with any International Classificatory System"...However, another site - BUK, states that this is still in dispute and is in fact only considered a 'disorder' and not an 'illness' as such...Furthermore, because the UK mental health profession does not class it an a psychiatric illness, it is very difficult for BPs to obtain any Disability Living Allowance... Can anyone shed some light on this? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joshua Posted December 4, 2004 Report Share Posted December 4, 2004 BPD is recognised as a mental illness, in accordance with any International Classificatory System. Within that remit that personality disorders are a form of mental illness. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lille_eskimit Posted December 4, 2004 Author Report Share Posted December 4, 2004 BPD is recognised as a mental illness, in accordance with any International Classificatory System. Within that remit that personality disorders are a form of mental illness. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Yes, I know that, but why is it I'm getting mixed information from elsewhere? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joshua Posted December 4, 2004 Report Share Posted December 4, 2004 cause its hard to update ur site all the time, lots to update and buk dont really pay much attention to their site, its been under construction for yrs. lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lille_eskimit Posted December 4, 2004 Author Report Share Posted December 4, 2004 cause its hard to update ur site all the time, lots to update and buk dont really pay much attention to their site, its been under construction for yrs. lol <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Aaahh...That'll explain why then...I did wonder about that...Mind you, the psychiatrist I'm seeing doesn't quite consider BPD as psychiatric illness either! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joshua Posted December 4, 2004 Report Share Posted December 4, 2004 makes it easier to treat you if he says it isnt, so tell him to go run and jump. hopefully to get the right treatment for you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
angelface Posted December 4, 2004 Report Share Posted December 4, 2004 i can relate to the confusion, when trying to look for work i am classed as having a mental ilness, in treatment i was told i don't have a mental illness and by saying i do i am denying responsability, however in the litterature they gave us bpd was refered to as a mental illness. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lille_eskimit Posted December 5, 2004 Author Report Share Posted December 5, 2004 Yes...it is so confusing as we're getting an assortment of information from supposedly reliable sources, most of which are contradictory... I had this particular conversation the other day with a fellow BPD who's done a bit of research on this subject, and she mentioned that the WHO (World Health Organisation) ICD-10 guideline does not class BPD or any other PDs as psychiatric illnesses. The document is rather long, so I didn't have a chance to read through it all, and only paid attention to the section pertaining to Personality Disorders, and found that although it did not SPECIFICALLY state in that segment that BPD (and other PDs) is NOT a psychiatric illness, it was interesting to note that the ICD-10 placed particular emphasis on distinguishing 'disorders' from 'illnesses' right from the very beginning, so as to avoid any confusion. This obviously suggests that, however marginal, there is a difference between the two. I copied and pasted the relevant passage below: "DISORDER The term 'disorder' is used throughout the classification, so as to avoid even greater problems inherent in the use of terms such as 'disease' and 'illness'. 'Disorder' is not an exact term, but it is used here to imply the existence of a clinically recognizable set of symptoms or behaviour associated in most cases with distress and with interference with personal functions. Social deviance or conflict alone, without personal dysfunction, should not be included in mental disorder as defined here." Throughout its description of PDs, NOWHERE did it refer to them as 'illnesses'. There are other examples of literature that uphold the same perspective, such as in http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/health/medical_notes/279860.stm which highlights the discrepancy...The start of the article does refer to PDs and other forms of mental instability as 'illnesses', but that just appears to be a general journalistic comment...It does elaborate further along in the feature that "unlike personality change, personality disorder is not linked to a mental illness, substance abuse or brain disease." Although this piece was published late 1999, the Mental Health pages of the site does not mention any other significant changes to date, and I find it highly doubtful that BBC would be lax in their updates. But then again, I have been known to be wrong, so I wouldn't quote me on that! I suppose one could be pedantic and fall back on the immutable tradition of using the esteemed Oxford Dictionary as a source of reference, in which 'illness' is defined as "the state of being unwell in body or mind" (there is evidence that trauma can damage brain cells, thus making the condition partially 'physical/biological' as well), but I very much doubt that those in the medical profession adhere to this particular system, and would quite possibly go as far as to issue a direct challenge to language itself! I often wonder what criteria it is that they go by... I have mixed feelings about this...There is a part of me that hopes BPD isn't a mental illness, because of the stigma attached, especially in Asian communities...I do not want to be viewed as 'mad'. But at times, it seems that no one takes your predicament seriously unless you are pigeon-holed as 'ill'. Someone suffering from PDs might feel that being diagnosed with a mental illness would remove all responsibility residing in his/her quarter, but I personally feel that this should not be the case...Even if it WERE an illness, some form of self-help would still be necessary (as in the case of most other diseases/conditions not related to mental health), such as turning up for therapy, learning/developing alternative coping mechanisms, remembering to take your medz etc...Even something as simple as acknowledging you have a problem would be the first step to getting better...And since we're not exactly incapacitated 24-7, this is not impossible. The very fact that we are all here and participating in this forum indicates that (despite the struggle it has been), we are more or less lucid, recognise that some sort of treatment is in order, and are reaching out for help...That there are BPDs out there who have recovered is evident that it is possible for us (to a large extent) to take control of our lives...So there is still hope for us yet! :D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Swan Posted December 5, 2004 Report Share Posted December 5, 2004 Re your comments about DLA - they focus on the effect that your condition has on daily life (whether it is an illness or a disorder doesn't matter for the purposes of the legislation as far as I can remember). The most important thing when applying for benefits is to describe what you are like at your very worst, including suicidal urges and risks of acting on them. As far as stigma is concerned - there is very good advice on the TARA website (sorry, don't have a link to it) about who you should tell and under what circumstances. The basic point is that it is your life, your information, and you have the right to decide who gets to know about it and who doesn't. Apart from limited circumstances you are not obliged to tell anyone. But get yourself a decent therapist who recognises it as a disorder in accordance with the DSM-IV Manual love, Swan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lostsoul Posted December 5, 2004 Report Share Posted December 5, 2004 That was very interesting. Thanks for taking the time to summise and post about it. I have often asked, 'where do you draw the line' between mental disorder and mental illness? I think you could prolly argue about it for a long time and not get to any useful conclusions. Or a line! Here's a rant instead.. I think the most important thing is that any problem a person has that they consider serious, is darn well recognised as SERIOUS. I don't care if this is recognition of it as an illness or a disorder, as long as it is RECOGNISED AS SERIOUS. On a more rebellious note...I think society is way SICKER than we are! I could rant about this till the world ends in nuclear war and mass catastrophe. In fact, I prolly will. Is it any wonder that mental illnesses and disorders or just plain dysfunctionality are on the up? Our society isn't even something I would call a society anymore: it's a workhouse with the same class system there ever was. We have come so far from the way we ANIMALS best get by that we even forget that's what we are. Grooming. A daily pleasure and stress reducer amongst apes. We have to pay for a massage or be in a relationship to get that. Which also means passing some kind of competition to win a mate and get a job, just so we can get groomed! Why should we get up at 7 in the morning when we are tired. Why should we work in offices, so deprived of exercise that our arteries clog up by 50 and we're all so stressed we chain smoke and drink or take other drugs just to COPE. Why should we do that just to feed and clothe ourselves. It aint so hard to feed yourself if you farm your own stuff. And lets ease up on the fear of nudity and just go naked ok? Lets please go back to smaller communities, living eco-friendly, emphasis on bonding rituals and social support. A sense of belonging to your group / tribe. Trash the technology and pull down the supermarkets. YEAH! Revolution And how insane is it that we have to go pay people to get support - to just talk! NO WAY! It shouldn't be like this. You should just pop in to the chief's tent and say: 'YO DUDE, I KINDA NEED TO TALK, I FEEL I'VE LOST MY WAY'. And then you can indulge in some hallucinogenic drugs, get in touch with the spirits, do some chanting and it's all sorted. It's worth noting that some communities around the world have achieved this way of life and actually have NO WORD FOR MENTAL ILLNESS cos it barely exists. And then when they were colonised by our lot and were made to adhere to our coutural values, they all went looopy. Ok, rant over. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Amy Posted December 5, 2004 Report Share Posted December 5, 2004 I'm in the states. There is a good site many of you may be familiar with already, its NAMI. The link is http://www.nami.org/ On that site, as well as to my docs, BPD is considered a mental illness. This still means to my docs that I am responsible for my recovery along with their help. Read about NAMI and what they do about ALL MI. There is a wealth of knowledge there and links to other sites that may intrest you. I have come across sites on the web before where docs are still disputing whether or not BPD even exists. Its ridiculous. We just must be thankful that there are sites such as this one, NAMI, and other sites with wonderful info. As well as doctors out there that will help us and not turn their back on us. If we come across doctors that do turn away, we have to keep looking, not give up. All my love Amy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lille_eskimit Posted December 5, 2004 Author Report Share Posted December 5, 2004 Re your comments about DLA - they focus on the effect that your condition has on daily life (whether it is an illness or a disorder doesn't matter for the purposes of the legislation as far as I can remember). The most important thing when applying for benefits is to describe what you are like at your very worst, including suicidal urges and risks of acting on them.<{POST_SNAPBACK}> I think you might find this link of interest: http://tinyurl.com/5fudf Most BPDs tend to display the marks of Depression anyway, so they'd most likely obtain DLA on the basis of those symptoms affecting their day-to-day functions...That's just by my reckoning though, since I'm no expert on the subject...I haven't found myself in a position to claim DLA as yet, and I hope I'll never have to! B) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lille_eskimit Posted December 5, 2004 Author Report Share Posted December 5, 2004 I think the most important thing is that any problem a person has that they consider serious, is darn well recognised as SERIOUS. I don't care if this is recognition of it as an illness or a disorder, as long as it is RECOGNISED AS SERIOUS.<{POST_SNAPBACK}> Yes...After all, what's in a name? Oh, and rant all you like...We've all been there before!!! :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lauren Posted December 5, 2004 Report Share Posted December 5, 2004 And how insane is it that we have to go pay people to get support - to just talk! NO WAY! It shouldn't be like this. You should just pop in to the chief's tent and say: 'YO DUDE, I KINDA NEED TO TALK, I FEEL I'VE LOST MY WAY'. It's worth noting that some communities around the world have achieved this way of life and actually have NO WORD FOR MENTAL ILLNESS cos it barely exists. And then when they were colonised by our lot and were made to adhere to our coutural values, they all went looopy. I agree. in some places certain signs of mental illness is classed as you being a higher being. Some communitys actually really look up and and respect the words of people we would most likely diagnose as being delusional. Strange world.# Hows the field search coming along claire? My leaf bikini set is nearly complete L xxx Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Swan Posted December 5, 2004 Report Share Posted December 5, 2004 Thanks for the link - can't face reading a 54 page policy document right now though. I know that when I was give the DSM-IV manual to check symptoms of atypical depression (which didn't apply) and the book fell open at BPD it was like dawn breaking - 9 criteria are listed and I had 8 of them. It was great to feel finally that the life I'd been enduring since I was 14 was recognised as being different from what most people experienced and that there was the possibility of treatment for it. As far as I am concerned that is the most important issue! Totally agree with your rant, lostsoul and whenever I have a choice to make I go with what seems to be the most 'natuaral' option (ie, what to animals do?). One small reservation about technology though - no technology, no computers, no internet, no BPD World, no support - some things are not all bad Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Amy Posted December 5, 2004 Report Share Posted December 5, 2004 In my community I suffer in silence. Can I really go to my son's school with a sign on my back dispaying all of my dx's? Hell no I can't. Do I want to be mentally Ill? No. Do I find comfort that it is considered a mental illness? No. Am I pleased to have other mental illnesses also? No. Did I ask for this? No. Is this my fault? No. Do I have to keep myself grounded daily so I don't feel I'm losing my mind? yes. Am I on 4 different kinds of meds because I like it? no. But do I need them? yes. Am I scared? yes. I used to look in the phone book to see if I existed. I sometimes think others can read my mind. Do I want this? no I fight stigma daily, I hear others make comments about things they know nothing about. They have never taken the time to learn about any of this. I have been called fucking crazy by people in the past. That was when I didn't know it was kind of true. But I try to remain optimistic. Sorry if I seem angry here. I fight tears all the time. I try not to let my children see me in a bad way. Have to keep the mask on, have to be perfect. When the husband asks me what is wrong, I usually lie, because I don't want to seem weak all the time. It always comes in waves. I'm great for weeks then fucked for a while. Right now I'm fucked. I am doing everything I am supposed to be doing. I am doing what the docs say to do. I don't want to be mentally ill, but I am. This is the way it it. I am still Amy. My dx's cannot define who I am. They are a part of me that I didn't ask for, but there are many more parts to me. Better parts to me. They are what needs to be the focus. They are what gets me through the shitty times like now. I am totally rambling, sorry Amy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lostsoul Posted December 5, 2004 Report Share Posted December 5, 2004 Lorna, Well at the moment I am looking for a place that will still be above sea level when the ice caps melt! I bargained on NZ as they have great farming land, and being volcanic it is also still rising slightly. But their poiltics are rapidly following suit with ours and America's and they have a very high incidence of skin cancer over there due to depletion of the ozone layer. I'll prolly end up in Europe somewhere. Not sure. The gulf stream is gonna stop in the next 20yrs or so, which is going to make it very inhospitable for farming in UK. I'll keep you posted. Swan, I would keep the tech needed for medicine and space exploration and research as I deem this to be in our interests. And some for communication...maybe! Good to hear you think you are an animal! Grrrrrr! OK that was a not quite what you said, but you have called yourself swan so sod it! Enjoy the waters.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ginny Posted December 5, 2004 Report Share Posted December 5, 2004 lostsoul, I love you way you think.... Ginny :D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Amy Posted December 6, 2004 Report Share Posted December 6, 2004 To all of you If I could delete my above reply, I would. I was not upset by anyone here. I just kind of went off I guess. I'm very sorry. Please over look it and carry on with your conversation. Amy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lostsoul Posted December 6, 2004 Report Share Posted December 6, 2004 Delicate, I read your reply last night and started to respond but then I didn't post it because I didn't know whether the thread had upset you. I am glad you have posted to say what you said BUT you don't need to be sorry. I mainly was just touched by what you said about the stigma because it is so true! About sufferring in silence - yes, you have the mental health team, the doctor, the psychiatrist, you have us. But in day to day life you are on your own, having to hide your problems, your real self, for the most part... keeping up appearances. And no, you didn't ask to go through any of this - maybe you just needed to pose those questions in order to confirm to yourself that none of it is your fault? And I think you are right in saying that the well, ok parts of you need attention too and shouldn't be forgotten... but don't hate yourself for the things you can't help... I too lie to my partner, say i'm ok when I am definitely not. That can compound how bad you feel because it means you have to cope on your own, and it takes more enrgy to cover up and pretend, energy you don't always have. Delicate, I am sorry you are going through a shitty time. I am sorry if anything in the thread did offend or upset you. I hope today is a little brighter... claire xxxx Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lille_eskimit Posted December 7, 2004 Author Report Share Posted December 7, 2004 It's worth noting that some communities around the world have achieved this way of life and actually have NO WORD FOR MENTAL ILLNESS cos it barely exists. Just a thought...not even sure if it's relevant, but I do know that in certain ethnic groups (like Asians), the issue of mental health rarely gets much coverage, not because few people in that culture suffer from mental instability, but because it's a bit of a taboo...Preventing any scenarios resulting in the family's collective 'loss of face' is paramount here, so no one wants to talk about it (unless it's with derision or ridicule), and they prefer to pretend no such thing exists as it's considered a weakness...as a result, everything is kept under wraps, and it looks as if, superficially at least, everything is hunky dory... Having said that, many Asians also have great capacity for compassion towards the handicapped, but a lot of that has to do with religion and karma... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Amy Posted December 7, 2004 Report Share Posted December 7, 2004 It is completely relevant since the thread took a turn. That must be very difficult, much more difficult than the stigma I face. Seriously. The stigma I face is because they are uneducated on mental illness. And if they are educated on it, unwilling to accept it has happened to a loved one or a friend. What you are talking about is different. It breaks my heart. Amy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lille_eskimit Posted December 7, 2004 Author Report Share Posted December 7, 2004 It is completely relevant since the thread took a turn. That must be very difficult, much more difficult than the stigma I face. Seriously. The stigma I face is because they are uneducated on mental illness. And if they are educated on it, unwilling to accept it has happened to a loved one or a friend. What you are talking about is different. It breaks my heart. Amy <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Same here...There are very few mental health support networks for Asians (like what we have here), apart from professional treatment, of course, which can be rather clinical... I'm very sensitive to what's around me (have been known to break down completely because of something I read in the news or watched on tv that most people would just shrug off as nothing new), and this just sets me on edge...The world can be a very unfair place! Anyhow, I did find a few organisations that provide help of the sort mentioned above...They were very kindly fowarded to me by some members of the British-born Chinese site... http://www.waiyin.org.uk http://www.cmha.org.uk I guess there are those out there who do care!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lucy Posted December 21, 2004 Report Share Posted December 21, 2004 you can get DLA even if you are working, i get it at middle rate, didnt emblish it at all. ICD-10 doesnt clasify BPD as a mental Illness but the DSM-IV does think us brits have some catching up to do! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lille_eskimit Posted December 21, 2004 Author Report Share Posted December 21, 2004 Are you sure? I can't find the relevant passage in the DSM-IV that defines personality disorders as illnesses...I might be looking in the wrong place though...Have you seen it by any chance? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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