Does Anyone Else In This World Ever Feel Severe Fragmentation?

[Susan27]

hi everyone. i'm new, just found this site tonight. been having a really rough couple of weeks. When a significant other in my life stops feeling safe, this sense of myself that i rest on them psychologically comes off of them and i get struck with excrutiating terror and i start to fragment really bad. im wondering if anyone else in this entire world gets the feeling that their mind is split up (the overall "conductor" can still describe everything going on" but a terror when you "look at yourself" inside and then feel like you are alone and feel you are going to die because the person you had a sense of yourself transferred on ... well, it stops working for whatever reason and you're left looking at yourself like a half of a person. oh boy, i fear this is making no sense whatsoever. i'm just really dying to know if anyone else ever gets these, i don't even know what to call them, conscious dissociations?? feelings of being fragmented inside? this inability to just "rest in yourself" like a unified person??? please, Oh God, tell me somebody else gets anything similar to this???

i think it has to do with a lot of therapy..16 years and still going and i'm only in my 30's! the more i know...the more it seems to freak me out sometimes since i am faced with what i've done (psychologically) and then left w/o a solid sense of self yet but without anybody on the outside to rest it on.

does anyone even understand this talk? i sure hope so...i'd feel so much less alone in this terrifying place.

susan

[xoomer]

I don't know if I understand... but I'm here for you... well maybe I do as I look at it again...

I don't know but Hugs and Hope you feel better

[Susan27]

thanks xoomer. the hugs are much appreciated!! i will confess, i have this pretty good sized Pooh Bear stuffed animal, and some nights when i'm feeling especially afraid, i go to sleep hugging him tightly. OK, don't anyone laugh...it helps...a lot! can we really ever get too many hugs? :unsure:

[just me]

not laughing at all I still have a toy from when I was born that I turn to sometimes at night.

I don't really understand the fragmented stuff. my brain isn't in focus tonight, sorry

But I can totally relate to the feeling like your missing a part of yourself when you realise how much of yourself is so strongly and intimately connected to someone and for some reason that bond has separated. That is scary.

I don't have any advice though but i'm sending good thoughts and a hug your way.

just me

[Susan27]

thank you and glad to hear i'm not the only one fondling stuffed animals!! (fondling was not perhaps the best word to use...) of course, groping would be worse. i guess i'll stick with hugging. otherwise, i may sound like a stuffedanimalfile

[amatracey1]

thanks xoomer. the hugs are much appreciated!! i will confess, i have this pretty good sized Pooh Bear stuffed animal, and some nights when i'm feeling especially afraid, i go to sleep hugging him tightly. OK, don't anyone laugh...it helps...a lot! can we really ever get too many hugs?

Welcome susan27

Glad you found this site, you are among people that are very supportive and understanding, as for your pooh bear nothing wrong with that, I still have on my bed, paddington bear, which i'v had for 35 years, once again welcome.

[celticgirl]

Hi susan,i understand that terror and fragmentation you talk about....when someone we love and trust is in a bad place it can feel very unsafe for us too....our lifeline and safety net isn't there and it feels like coming apart....pooh bear brilliant,i have a collection of eeyores! kate xx

[lostsoul]

hi susan

this might be of interest to you

when i was in therapy for bpd (something called dialectical behavioural therapy) i felt very much as if it was making me worse

and i think it really was

i'm not saying therapy is bad, but for some people, their problems might arise partly because they are prone to overanalysis and are very perceptive/imaginative too

for them, asking questions, probing for answers, theories and the like, can get them deeper into the problem, rather than getting them out of it

people who over intellectualise things are prone to neurosis. hey - check out all my friends~! they do it so much they forget to experience the thing they are intellectually distancing themselves from. ie intellectualising is talking, not feeling. analysis is talking, and thinking, not feeling

feelings are actually a lot less complicated than thoughts. they exist for a reason and should be accepted, not judged or questioned. it is our thoughts about our feelings that complicate matters

i guess what i am saying is that maybe for you, you have had too much therapy, and maybe you are an intellectualiser, over-complicating (unintentionally) and thus making things worse

or i could be totally wrong... lol

about fragmentation

this is something i have experienced in bucketloads throughout my life.

for me it was all about conflict. i had conflicts about a lot of things, ranging from the simple (what shall i eat?) to the complicated (who am i?). i think for me the conflict came from being depressed. it's easy to think - oh i'm just a fickle compicated person who doesn't know what they want, but really, i was depressed. and for me the depressed mind is typified by CONFLICT/CONFUSION

for me, fragmentation is a complicated thing to describe, but i will try to explain my experience of it the best i can..

for some reason, i could not hold two conflicting things in my head at the same time. the belief for example - i am a good person, but i am also a bad person. i would then ask myself: if i am good, why am i also bad? if i am bad, why am i also good? i cannot be bad and good - i must be one or the other. because i was depressed, i would pick 'bad me'. i would decide that i was all bad. and never good. but the brain knows deep down that this is a lie. there is conflict. your depression is telling you that you are all bad, but you feel terrible about coming to this conclusion. who wants to be all bad? it certainly doesn't make you feel good does it? so you have to put it somewhere. the pain of being all bad is a terrible one, so you push it away somewhere. you 'split' it off from the rest of you. this type of thinking can then result in cutting or od'ing - you associate that 'bad' part with part of your body or you try to kill it off by some means. the good part is left in another quarter. the brain knows it's there but it won't let you know it consciously. there are essentially two selves - the good part and the bad part. and surrounding all of this, is confusion, and differing states of awareness about the existence of the two parts.

one time, i 'split off' the bad part of me so profoundly that i embodied it within a made up 'presence' i thought i could sense being in my house. i ran all the way out of my house and to a friends where i stayed the night, all because i could not accept that i was both good and bad sometimes and had split off the bad part of me and called it an 'evil spirit'.

i think wanting to be perfect drives that whole thing by the way.

anyway shit i'm losing track. arg! too many theories. fragmentation. is that what you get or is it something different?

is it just a feeling of not being inside yourself!?

more info please.... i'm sure though that whatever you are feeling, you are not the first to have felt it

lots of love, losty. and welcome!

xx

oh god. hold on~! i just re-read your post and i think i kinda got the wrong end of the stick lol

you were talking about enmeshment with someone else weren't you?

when they don't feel safe you don't feel safe. you experience their experiences? you depend on them in that way? right?

but you call that fragmentation. hmm. ok. i think that just comes from feeling really insecure about yourself, and as if you are not enough of a person in your own right, so you sort of leach off other people. is that how you feel?

more info needed here !!!

[jai]

hi susan

yeh i do understand, not sure i have any wise words though. My days are spent hanging onto whatever is on the menu for that day and if i m not in control i feel like , what the heck nowadays. Only at times when i want to be angry or upset or cry i get pissed off, cos usually i go on like nothing inside is wrong and it sucks.

hope that your feelings pass soon, get plenty of rest, be gentle on yourself and if you can stick to a routine, where you touch base just with you once a day. It does nt cure but it is down time that is essential.

take care

jai

x

[Micheal]

I think i get u too

nice words from losty and jai :)

[Susan27]

thank you EVERYBODY so very much. and i mean this from the bottom of my heart (top, sides and middle too). i woke this morning to find all your posts and words of encouragement and it's really helping. this truly does start to feel like you're meeting a new family. doesn't stop the suffering, but i feel a small amount of bonding (and that can be pretty rare for me, especially with strangers and text!) so again thank you.

and yes, emeshment is the word i left out. does anyone have their sense of self "emeshed" or merged onto another and then when that person either dies, leaves, or no longer feels safe, they kinda come unglued...like your sense of self is all weirded up inside and you're conscious of it?

i guess that's another way of putting it. and yes again (i can't remember who mentioned my being over analytical but YES that's me!!) and when you mix 1. what you do with 2. being aware of what you're doing in terms of your sense of self due to years of therapy and 3. being very analytical and trying to figure it out just because you can't help it..it's just the way you are...things often get worse as they are trying to heal and get better. i do need the therapy tho. the bond i have with her is critical for my creating this internal bridge between a sense of me that rests in part outside myself and a sense of me that rests withiin.

does this more info give anyone any more ideas on this??

thank you all so much

[rebeccaborderline]

Yeah, I think i get it too, though never tried to describe it or name it; perhaps I should...Lostsouls conflict/confusion theory makes sense to me.

rebeccaborderline

[Susan27]

Yeah, I think i get it too, though never tried to describe it or name it; perhaps I should...Lostsouls conflict/confusion theory makes sense to me.

rebeccaborderline

yes, it was lost soul's comments and they make a lot of sense. unfortunately i am an over analyzer and while i know it makes the process of trying to "unify" worse sometimes, since i break it all down into piecess, i think i need that mentalizing to keep my "grip" at times since feeling emotions (especially when i'm by myself) is so difficult for me.

does anybody else break it all down inside, what they are going thru and the internal awareness that is changing, like this?

i need a lot of validation i guess...this road is oftentimes very scary and i get unsure of where it's leading...

[Elke.]

A pic of what my mind´s like most of the time. Fragmented! I find it great the way you can put it into words though and describe what it´s like.

I understand the negative side effects of too much therapy. My T gets curious about my past, and it opens up old wounds. Many times I walk out of his office feeling worse than before because it brings so much to the surface again and I´m swept away from the "here and now" back to the "then and there".

Nice you´ve joined the group.

Take care,

Elke

[InnerPeace]

Elke, often therapy does make us feel worse before we get better...we have to go into the nasty stuff to get rid of it and if you walk out of therapy at that stage you haven't given the therapist a chance to bring you back to the here and now. There is the energy treatment route though or other treatments that work on a subconscious level and sort the issues without us really knowing about it and can be a lot faster. Maybe you'd prefer a person centered therapist, they won't get curious and dig into your past...you take the lead....it's about providing validation and empathy and allowing you to find your own answers.

Susan...I tend to over analyse too. I've know CBT to be very effective for people who do think a lot. I've had other therapy that just really annoyed me...I did better thinking to myself, but it just wasn't the right therapy or therapist for me.

But my self-awareness has been my saviour and particularly a book called Setting Your Heart On Fire by Raphael Cushnir...it really sorts out nicely the good and bad conflict thing that a few of you were mentioning...it does for me anyway.

[jai]

susan

i think i made a second reply to this, im not really sure to be honest. so, apologies as i think it has been removed.

i better not add any more

jai

[just me]

and yes, emeshment is the word i left out. does anyone have their sense of self "emeshed" or merged onto another and then when that person either dies, leaves, or no longer feels safe, they kinda come unglued...like your sense of self is all weirded up inside and you're conscious of it?

That's exactly the word I was looking for in my reply earlier....

For some reason(probably because my sense of self is uncertain... apart from my ill self which is overriding and intensely clear when I'm ill. ) I did mesh with the person who could show me sanity when I had lost sight of it and give me hope when I felt there was none, who's rationality counter balanced my irrational thoughts just enough to keep my head above water.

and my life revolved around his to such a degree that I only had 'our lives' and not one of my own as he did.

that over the years my hobbies and interests became 'ours' and I've never had my 'own'

even in other relationships the pattern was the same, of being totally reliant and embroiled. even when those relationships were harmful to me.

Being alone leaves me wondering who 'I' am and the only answer I have is that of my depressed and ill self... which is not safe, but it is vivid and real.

Sorry I've not yet figured out the answer... I'm still in surviving mode and have only been single for 3 months. But you are definitely not alone in these feelings

(((HUGS)))

just me

[InnerPeace]

I can relate to that too Just Me...it's co-dependency, a great book on that is Healing The Inner Child by Charles L Whitfield.

Someone also made a great post on boundaries a few weeks ago too that was really helpful.

[Morgan]

I think I understand what you're describing - and thank you so much for starting this thread. The ways people have used to describe things have helped me put words to things I couldn't before. It's been really useful for me to read.

[Susan27]

thanks morgan. glad it helped. sure helped me to see that other's knew what i was speaking about even if we don't experience it in the same way. still helps validate some of the weird symptoms that go on for me.

[Micheal]

I think the no-personality terrors was part of what eventually helped me to become more self-aware

about the fact that i was personally disordered. I felt as though my personality had been frightened out

to the edges of my mind, and there was a big hole in the middle as a result. I started filling it when i

reached a life stage where i could actually function to some extent, i started to read poetry at first - i

built up a sense of who i am through activities like that.

I find certain types of other people kind of engulf me (or make me feel like that) - it feels like i'm

losing myself, i start becoming them, or i don't know who i am so well. I hear their style of speech

in my internal speech and my external voice can start to sound like them; I also find it difficult to work out

what i think about things, i keep inheriting their viewpoints. It gives me the creeps so i tend to avoid them.

Other people can see u as chameleon-like too so u can get abuse and backstabbing because they say

you are two-faced because of your changeable character.

I haven't had this for a while now but i used to also have these kind of moments where my personality

would totally flatline, i would totally lose myself and kind of become the charicature that i felt they

perceived me as, like if i felt they saw me as socially unconfident or a 'geek' i would become it when

the particular person was present (it could travel through people too so if i knew the person knew

another person i also knew i might figure they could have 'heard about me' from the first and it

could happen with the second).

It's not nice is it.

:blink:

[InnerPeace]

That's reminded me of things I'd forgotten Micheal...how I pick up other people's accent's and phrases and worry that they'll think I'm taking the piss out of them. Also, thinking the same way as them and worrying about being seen as two faced, I'm remember explaining it by saying that I can simply see their viewpoint.

It's a bit like being so sensitive and empathic that we just meld instantly. I am getting better at regaining my own sense of self and being aware of mine and others boundaries.

Interesting what you said about poetry reading...it is through our experiences that we get to know who we are. If we lived in a vacuum we wouldn't know anything...we know hot because we know cold, if we only had hot we wouldn't be able to define what hot was.

[Elke.]

Michael,

when I read what you wrote, it made me feel so sad. Cause I see myself in it and ask myself why - and how can we change?

But it´s our illness. F*** illness!

Sorry, had to get that out...

Elke

[Susan27]

Michael..I could've written what you wrote myself! THIS is the response i was hoping to find...the exact same experience in the exact same language. Now I know I am not alone in what i do. The way you articulated the experience and how aware of it you are was frightening, haunting and yet beautiful in that you see it so clearly..which sounds to me like you are steps closer to creating cohesiveness from the "dispersion"...do you know what i mean?? and NO it isn't nice..but it's what we did to avoid fulling "being there" at the time. I guess I was searching to make sure that becoming consciously aware of the dispersing...altho extremeley uncomfortable...was common to at least one other person. and all of you wrote about the same thing in one way or another..but seeing it this clearly...the losing yourself..the scattering...the engulfment...the terror at the very sight of what we do in a conscious way...has been so scary to me...i guess i just needed the validation to make sure i wasn't seeing it alone.

it's like watching dissocation coming and going...and you are scared of both directions because you know when you are in it you are not fully here and cohesive but you also know that if you "pull it back together" the original terror comes with it. did that make any sense?

thanks michael and elke. elke: your picture was haunting and hit me at my core because it visually showed me exactly what i'm talking about. I know you "get it"

boy this support really helps me. i hope it validates others too.

[lostsoul]

but don't so called 'normal' people, ie non bpds, do that too?

and wouldn't anyone be forced to re-negotiate their sense of self after coming out of a relationship? i guess i just don't see enmeshment as a dirty word, as symptomatic of a 'problem'

if you reverse it, and ask yourself what kind of person you would be if you were completely unable to mimick other people's behaviour, accents, sayings and facial expressions... well, you would be autistic!

there has to be room to move - a balance between doing it too much and not doing it enough. so a bit of enmeshment is fine, right?

i dunno, i have read so many postings by bpds, and it just seems to me that part of the bpd problem is that they think they have a problem

i'm not saying that there are no problems - clearly, there are problems - but that being said, i don't think there are as many as the average bpd thinks there are

maybe i just never had this element of bpd. maybe i never had bpd. so maybe i don't understand. but it kind of niggles when i see people rallying behind something, saying yes! yes! that's me! that's myyyy problem!!!! when maybe it isn't a problem at all. because then there are lots of people out there with problems. and that sucks!

oh god! this is the worst thing i've ever posted. i must apologise. i am in pregnant mode where the world is happy and everything is ok really. i want to hug everyone and get things fixed up nicely.

these are my thoughts today lol. enjoy!

take care everyone

xx losty xx