Does Anyone Else In This World Ever Feel Severe Fragmentation?

[InnerPeace]

A few of us were discussing earlier how BPD is like a greater sensitivity that the majority of the population. We generally have co-dependence/inner child issues too.

Something becomes a problem when it negatively affects our lives...it's not 'normal' when we are affected worse than your average man on the street. Whether it's a problem or not is very much an individual thing and how we personally feel about it.

Yes we can accept ourselves and understand why we are the way we are, but that doesn't mean that we wouldn't want to change how we are....in fact, we have to understand and accept before we can change.

[Susan27]

hi lost soul,

this "emesh" isn't a typical emesh where you lose yourself a bit and then easily return like after being engrossed in a good movie...this one is like a psycological "merger" involving varying degrees of dissociation where you don't see yourself as separate. you lose your personal sense of self because it's never been fully there to begin with and you see the person in the relationship as an extention of yourself whch is why so many with BPD fear the abandonment so greatly. it's like you will die if the person leaves because you've rested your sense of self so greatly on an outside person. it's not conscious which is why so many fear being left or fall apart if they are. it's hard to describe...if you have it you know it. Kinda like the "i hate you don't leave me" scenario.

[just me]

but don't so called 'normal' people, ie non bpds, do that too?

and wouldn't anyone be forced to re-negotiate their sense of self after coming out of a relationship? i guess i just don't see enmeshment as a dirty word, as symptomatic of a 'problem'

i dunno, i have read so many postings by bpds, and it just seems to me that part of the bpd problem is that they think they have a problem

i'm not saying that there are no problems - clearly, there are problems - but that being said, i don't think there are as many as the average bpd thinks there are

I've tried several times to reply to this post but haven't got the words to explain...

A lot of bpd traits are things that normal people have.... which is why it is hard to diagnose and why self diagnosis is easily done mistakenly and dangerously.

the traits have to be long lasting and extreme for it to be bpd.

these things are normal reactions up to a point but when they affect your day to day life continuously and become unbearable... Well hell yes they are a problem.... no one wants to live this way...we don't choose to be ill.

When something happens that would make a normal person sad we become depressed, when a normal person would react with anger we fly into a rage, everything is heightened and exaggerated to such an extreme that we often self harm to try to cope... bpd's are likely to attempt suicide...do normal people do that??? it is real and painful and unbearable.

so no the problem isn't that we think we have problems

The problem is that we do have problems like everyone does in life but that ours are intensified.

[just me]

I can relate to that too Just Me...it's co-dependency, a great book on that is Healing The Inner Child by Charles L Whitfield.

Someone also made a great post on boundaries a few weeks ago too that was really helpful.

Thank you innerpeace :)

[lostsoul]

i once read in a post here -

"is it a bpd thing to get very aggitated when standing in a long line of people, say at the supermarket, or is this something everybody gets"?

it's that kind of thinking that i was referring to when i was saying about people with bpd thinking they have more problems than they do

i'm not saying they don't have problems, i'm just saying that once you know you have significant problems, it is easy to then come to see almost everything about your psyche as also being malfunctional in some way - thus, your problems seem to be growing, but they are not actually at all

i think it is true that i have experienced enmeshment. i know that i have also attempted suicide when a relationship of mine broke down. i know that it was a little irrational to act like that. but then a lot of people do attempt suicide after breaking up with someone, and yet they do so without the label bpd

oh shit! what's my point! i think what i'm trying to say is that i stand by my point that sometimes people with bpd think they have more wrong with them than actually is, but i'm not saying they don't have problems, or less problems than the average person

some bpds prolly do experience an unhealthy level of enmeshment

you'll have to forgive me peeps if this post irritated anyone. i am really experiencing some serious brain degeneration recently. in fact i think it is probable that the baby is now eating my brain as i have not managed to eat much at all today from feeling so sick. i think i was trying to have a debate about bpds jumping on bandwagons, when really, i should have just had that as an internal debate in my own head. yeah, so anyway, apologies if this wound anyone up. you don't need to take any notice of a braindead pregnant woman anyway, right!!!???

good. ok. xx losty xx

[InnerPeace]

Hmmm...so you're saying that we have a tendency to follow each other like sheep by jumping on the BPD bandwagon and imagine that we have the same problem as the original poster when we don't really?

I personally don't jump onto any "bandwagons" unless I genuinely relate to what the topic starter is talking about.

Could an alternative explanation be that we are BPD suffers and as BPD suffers we have the same symptoms?

[Micheal]

some lovely words from innerpeace and others

I agree that the hyper-sensitivity both in terms of 'awareness of signals' and how big an effect

those signals have on the individual seem to be quite significant things in bpd.. But this is not to say

that in general people who suffer from bpd and other pds have not also suffered abuse which many

other people will never do in their lives, eg child molestation. I find it generally offensive when other

people decide that, eg, because they check their car doors a bit that they 'have' OCD and are

equivalent to someone who has severe OCD. It's also really boring.

No offence losty.

;)

[Susan27]

hi all (lost, i wasn't upset at all, hope i didn't offend you! congrats on mommy-hood too!)

i was just explaining that when i started this thread about fragmentation, it's really a symptom of a pretty severe state of dissociation for a time being and sometimes it can follow a breakup, or death of a person close to us...sometimes we don't even know we were emeshed until they are gone from our presence for a time and all these weird symptoms start acting up and we don't know why. for me, it's typically because of feelings of loss...i don't bear feelings well and sometimes, if the feelings are too great, i "fragment" temporarily, because i guess i'm doing something severe to avoid feeling. it's so uncomfortable and because i've been doing it on and off for the last few weeks, i just needed some reassurance from others to see if they'd ever done it too. it's so scary for me. all your replies have helped me...EACH one, as it state all different perspectives and thoughts on the same basic problem...that shaky sense of self that is so characteristic in people with bpd.

again, thank you all so much. we do share so many of the same symptoms and it's comforting to hear from others who can relate...in any degree!

susan

[just me]

i once read in a post here -

"is it a bpd thing to get very aggitated when standing in a long line of people, say at the supermarket, or is this something everybody gets"?

it's that kind of thinking that i was referring to when i was saying about people with bpd thinking they have more problems than they do

i'm not saying they don't have problems, i'm just saying that once you know you have significant problems, it is easy to then come to see almost everything about your psyche as also being malfunctional in some way - thus, your problems seem to be growing, but they are not actually at all

i think it is true that i have experienced enmeshment. i know that i have also attempted suicide when a relationship of mine broke down. i know that it was a little irrational to act like that. but then a lot of people do attempt suicide after breaking up with someone, and yet they do so without the label bpd

oh shit! what's my point! i think what i'm trying to say is that i stand by my point that sometimes people with bpd think they have more wrong with them than actually is, but i'm not saying they don't have problems, or less problems than the average person

some bpds prolly do experience an unhealthy level of enmeshment

you'll have to forgive me peeps if this post irritated anyone. i am really experiencing some serious brain degeneration recently. in fact i think it is probable that the baby is now eating my brain as i have not managed to eat much at all today from feeling so sick. i think i was trying to have a debate about bpds jumping on bandwagons, when really, i should have just had that as an internal debate in my own head. yeah, so anyway, apologies if this wound anyone up. you don't need to take any notice of a braindead pregnant woman anyway, right!!!???

good. ok. xx losty xx

losty,

your opinions are as valid as anyone's opinions are,

I just have differing opinions to you about these things.

And yes sometimes 'normal' people can have breakdowns after the break up of a relationship and this does not mean that they have BPD or any other mental illness, they are however experiencing irrational behavior and a lot of pain...

Now imagine all that pain intensified and that is how someone with BPD feels

And it's not just a one off episode, it's a life long constant.

The way that we deal with these things is what often causes us more problems...So by trying to recognise theses things in our selves we can then move on to alter our reactions and ways of dealing with things to try to do it in a more healthy way.

It REALLY is about the strength of the emotion and the reaction that leads form that Strength of emotion,

in people with BPD it is heightened and stronger than in 'normal' people...

there have been studies on the brains of people with BPD that back this up.

I hope that bump lets you eat something soon and that I have not caused you any stress or worry by my reply

just me

[Elke.]

Quote: "Now imagine all that pain intensified and that is how someone with BPD feels

And it's not just a one off episode, it's a life long constant."

I absolutely agree with that, the oversensitivity and pain is such a part of me. Yet.... I remember times, for example, when I was with someone I absolutely felt comfortable with, and trusted, and I had so much distance from things. The pain was gone and actually had a great day and felt free from pain and discomfort. I only "wish" I could get this under control myself and not make it so dependable on whoever it is I am with. This is my goal.

Anyone understand this?

Elke

[just me]

Hi Elke,

I've never really had that sense of contentment myself...

Glad that you have had that experience...

at least you now know that you can feel that way.

[Susan27]

I only "wish" I could get this under control myself and not make it so dependable on whoever it is I am with. This is my goal.

Anyone understand this?

Elke

Big time Elke!! totally understand. my wish too

[Antari2012]

I understand.

I experience this every time I get into any sort of relationship. The strength I see in the one I copy into myself, when it disappears, I feel myself become weak and all my strength from their existence fades. I then break apart into many pieces, and come back together incomplete, since I can no longer use their piece.

Hard to explain, but I understand what you mean, and yes, I experience it very often.

[strat]

Yes, I do this. At the end of my last relationship I still had the woman in my head, talking to me, and I was talking like her, to the extent that I didn't know where "I" was. I know it sounds daft but I didn't really notice this happening, due to the pain. This went on for about 5 years, it only really stopped happening so severely when I talked it through with my therapist. It still happens, but now it's not anything like as severe.

The relationship itself I was lost in to the extent that I didn't need my gf around at all, I'd already taken her personality into myself.

Yet another reason(s) to be afraid of yet another relatioship in the future, so I make sure that there isn't one.

strat

[just me]

Hi Strat,

I can relate to what you say, but I think by the fact that you can recognise this and that you are working on your problems means that you should never say never about a relationship in the future.

Hopefully one day you maybe well enough.

I guess I wanted to say this to myself as much as I did to you.

Strat do you see that tiny,tiny, itsy bitsy little glimmer ahead... (No it's not an erroneous bit of glitter escaped from some ones party frock...) it's hope...it's barely visible to the naked eye but trust me it is there.

(((Hugs)))

just me

[strat]

Hi Strat,

I can relate to what you say, but I think by the fact that you can recognise this and that you are working on your problems means that you should never say never about a relationship in the future.

Hopefully one day you maybe well enough.

I guess I wanted to say this to myself as much as I did to you.

Thanks for that; I reckon there's more against it than for it, but who knows?

Strat do you see that tiny,tiny, itsy bitsy little glimmer ahead... (No it's not an erroneous bit of glitter escaped from some ones party frock...) it's hope...it's barely visible to the naked eye but trust me it is there.

Are you sure it's not some more of Lucy's glitter from another thread?

Thanks, just me!!!

[just me]

Hi Strat.....

just double checked and triple checked...tis definitely hope up ahead

...but somehow Lucy's glitter did manage to get on to my keyboard lol