Compulsive Lying

[InnerPeace]

I have a friend who I think could be a compulsive liar. I've ignored it for so long but have to accept that I really can't be sure if anything they say to me is true, which is really hard. Now I'm not sure how to go about helping them, I know I don't need to and it's up to them to realise and seek help but I don't want to lose the relationship with an otherwise wonderful person.

I did recently come out and say that I didn't think they were being open and honest with me and that I do need that...I didn't get a reply but I did feel better for finally accepting and expressing it. Then yesterday I read an article in a magazine about a woman who lied compulsively and had lost everyone close to her. She go a buz from making up larger than life stories, they made her feel alive. She also felt that she was unloveable as a child and would make up stories to project what she thought was a more loveable imagine of herself and to get attention that she hadn't received from her mother.

It seems to be done to good old lack of a sense of self and a lack of self-love again..it's just amazing how many different ways a damaged inner child makes us behave.

I'm thinking that something like NLP changing thinking at a sub-conscious level may be a quick solution...it's good for compulsions, phobias etc, pursuading him to accept the problem and get the treatment though is somethingelse.

If anyone has any thoughts to add or advice or knows of anyone who has successfully been treated for compulsive lying, I'd be really glad to hear from you.

[InnerPeace]

I forgot to add the other possible reason for this...the child/adult who makes up an alternative reality for themselves because the world they live in is so awful for them and they have no other escape.

[amatracey1]

Hi Innerpeace, I think you have made some good points, some people lie, as a escape plan,they dont like their own reality, It also be they feel inferior to others, lack of self-love.

Yes some people can't help lying as they feel thats the only time, they get attention for themselves.

I suppose everyone who lies has a reason, not that I agree with people we lie, but some people find it hard to stop

[jai]

inner

this is a good question and i wish i knew the answer!

my bf lies about little things.

i have told him he is always safe to tell me the truth and not to fear my instant and quick temper. Inspite of its outings when i am extremely stressed. I feel bad cos i want him to feel secure in the telling the truth. I am also aware he grew up in a family where i am guessing that the truth would be met with severe punishment. So i tend to cut him some slack and i know when he is lying now too. Mostly i just ask him why he smiles to himself and he says , 'no reason'. Then ill say ok, that no reason would nt mean that you did nt really do x or that he did do the thing that is bugging me.

i know its tough though, i am always second guessing where the lie is with him. Its not big stuff and sadly cos of my bpd i tend to go off v quickly and then the moments passed for me, forgotten. Its a rough old way to be.

so with your friend , maybe some gentle and humourous challenging would go along way. My bf accepts my grins and giggles now esp when he knows he s lied. It s our way of saying its a fair cop. Its never over anything big and i hope one day he will feel safe enough to see that life is so much easier when we are honest with each other.

love and luck

jai

xx

ps. sorry that was a bit of a me me me answer. doh!

[InnerPeace]

Not at all Jai, that was really helpful, thanks. I guess it's upsets me that he doesn't feel safe enough to be honest and I do understand why. When I feel he's lying to me it makes me scared about how mush else isn't true and I worry that if I entered a relationship with him that I'd find there was nothing there but thin air, I'm scared of making any changes in my life on the basis of what he tells me in case it isn't true. I know his feelings for me are true though. I think he digs big holes for himself by doing this...these aren't small lies...he must realise afterwards that he's got himself in a corner and wonder how to get out of it, maybe that's one of the reasons why he goes quiet. I've tried to be reassuring, that he doesn't have to impress me and I accept him as he is....he can say to me he'd rather do something else, I won't take offence but if he lies about that to cover it up or just goes quiet, that is more likely to upset me.

I guess it's all about building up trust, which with him is a very long process and think must come from him learning to love himself so that he knows he can be loved for himself and doesn't need to cover up for anything.

I go round in circles about this! Part of me feels I can't tolerate being lied to as a breach of my own boundaries and respect, and the other part feels I'm being uncompassionate. I'm not good with the uncertainty, I have to trust him if we were to plan a life together.

[jai]

inner

im glad i could help.

i do know what you mean about how much more is hidden, and worrying constantly about where the real truths lie. It really is a catch 22, but if you are nt already living with this blokey and have time to work on this and also decide how far you want to go then i guess no great decision has to be made.

I know my bf still tells porkies frequently and usually i know what they are about. On the other hand i have switched off from the potential big lie. It just got me knots to be honest. I felt like i would never trust him if i carried on that way.

Ultimately it is hard. Part of me is always on alert for the next biggy, somehow we feel it is better to see it coming. My theory now for what it is worth is that lies are usually found out. My bf knows if it happens again, the big lie then i would just walk.

More reason for him to hide things efficiently or more reason not to? that is the big question when you get this far down the road.

I really don't have an answer, i just pray in time his level of trust will improve and we will overcome the little lies and ultmately it will mean that the big stuff never happens.

Not sure if this helps at all, i feel for you as i live with this. So as not to go more insane i just have switched off from it and like i say kind of hope for the best!

love

jai

x

[InnerPeace]

Thanks Jai. If I query anything with him he gets bolshy on me so I tend to say things like "I'd have understood if xyz" without saying that that is what I think the real situation is.

I'm sure he's as embarrassed as hell when I do catch him out. I don't know if it helps him to know that I know he does it or not. I think he likes to believe what he tells me too, it makes his life sound 'better', so by making him realise that he's lying brings him back to where he'd rather not be. God this is so hard! It's amazing though, my feelings haven't changed about him even though what he's told me about himself has varied greatly!

[Betsy]

inner,

just a thought. i am going to go against the current here but since you are a student of psychology maybe you can understand this. friends should not try to treat friends, especially if they don't even know they are having therapy practiced on them.

just my thoughts and i could be totally off.

bets

[kissprudence]

Hi Innerpeace!

This is the same chap you've talked about before, yes?

My mother was a foster-parent and childminder for most of my life, and the kids we took care of mainly came from quite horrific backgrounds. And my god, did they lie! The most incredible, far fetched stuff you could imagine! My mother simply didn't make a big deal out of it, so that she didn't encourage them. What she focused on was building their self-esteem and improving their quality of life until they eventually had no reason to make things up anymore. Some of the kids stopped lying very quickly, whereas others took a little longer to break the habit and settle down to reality.

I can only suggest, based on my own experiences, that you do all you can to boost this chap's self-esteem. He's probably lying because he feels as though the truth of his own life or personality isn't glamorous or interesting enough for you. Try to show him that the things you admire and respect him for, are things that are really in him. Show him love and acceptance for who he is and what he does, not for what he tells you.

Obviously, I don't know all the details, but it worked for the kids I grew up with! They ended up happy, healthy and proud of who they were, with no reasons to lie anymore.

Take care,

KP

xx

[rebeccaborderline]

Hi Inner

One of my uncles (more like a brother) is like this, he's always told such whoppers its unreal! And he seems to really believe them when he's saying them, he's so immersed (the best one involved a stolen car and a high-speed police chase; when he was finally stopped he claimed diplomatic immunity!)

He had a very traumatic childhood, and is otherwise a warm, loving caring person who gets walked over and ripped off by everyone. Ive just learnt to accept it, i dont challenge it, and when a lie unravels i dont rub his nose in it. Unfortunately his own siblings show their derision, and think everything he says is untrue which is not the case and hurts him. Just try to let it go I'd say; there are worse character traits. Anyway, the lies are usually easy to spot, and side-step

rebeccaborderline

[michellenola]

i think people lie for many diffrent reasons i surpose i spent most my life lieing but in a different way i made my family seem so perfect and stuff and would make things up about the gifts i got a s a child and all the trips we we all had as a happy family, when infact i have never had a birthday or christmas present in my life untill last year whoo , and i was never took on trips anywhere in fact i had a dreadful upbringing i was abused my family members up intill not that long ago,.but i think you end up ashamed of the truth so you make up a complete new life , as people dont except in this world that bad things happen you end up being dismissed or looked down on by people, who ignore the bad in the world and brush all the suffering others have under the carpet,.and i guess i have just babbled aload of rubbish, anyway my point is just becouse they lie doesnt mean they are a bad person they might be just hideing a bad life they had with a better one they have made up,

sorry for rambleing on.

[InnerPeace]

inner,

just a thought. i am going to go against the current here but since you are a student of psychology maybe you can understand this. friends should not try to treat friends, especially if they don't even know they are having therapy practiced on them.

just my thoughts and i could be totally off.

bets

Hi Betsy, I've studied counselling rather than psychology and I'm not trying to treat him...I'm trying to let him know that I would rather he told me the truth (asserting my own boundaries) but without telling him I think he's lying, which would be undiplomatic and hurtful.

Hi Innerpeace!

This is the same chap you've talked about before, yes?

My mother was a foster-parent and childminder for most of my life, and the kids we took care of mainly came from quite horrific backgrounds. And my god, did they lie! The most incredible, far fetched stuff you could imagine! My mother simply didn't make a big deal out of it, so that she didn't encourage them. What she focused on was building their self-esteem and improving their quality of life until they eventually had no reason to make things up anymore. Some of the kids stopped lying very quickly, whereas others took a little longer to break the habit and settle down to reality.

I can only suggest, based on my own experiences, that you do all you can to boost this chap's self-esteem. He's probably lying because he feels as though the truth of his own life or personality isn't glamorous or interesting enough for you. Try to show him that the things you admire and respect him for, are things that are really in him. Show him love and acceptance for who he is and what he does, not for what he tells you.

Obviously, I don't know all the details, but it worked for the kids I grew up with! They ended up happy, healthy and proud of who they were, with no reasons to lie anymore.

Take care,

KP

xx

Hi Kissprudence, yes it is the same guy! What you said is really interesting and good advice too, which I think I've practiced. I've always made it clear that I love him for who he is and I know I've been a great support for him and made him feel special...he has a website and put some beautiful songs on there for me. I guess I'd hoped the stories would have stopped by now but it's not something I've come across before and I'm probably expecting too much...he has been through a lot.

Hi Inner

One of my uncles (more like a brother) is like this, he's always told such whoppers its unreal! And he seems to really believe them when he's saying them, he's so immersed (the best one involved a stolen car and a high-speed police chase; when he was finally stopped he claimed diplomatic immunity!)

He had a very traumatic childhood, and is otherwise a warm, loving caring person who gets walked over and ripped off by everyone. Ive just learnt to accept it, i dont challenge it, and when a lie unravels i dont rub his nose in it. Unfortunately his own siblings show their derision, and think everything he says is untrue which is not the case and hurts him. Just try to let it go I'd say; there are worse character traits. Anyway, the lies are usually easy to spot, and side-step

rebeccaborderline

Thank you Rebecca...mostly I have just gone with the flow and let them pass by me. I think it's my own fears about entering into the relationship that makes things worse...I'm so scared of acting on what he says and being left high and dry, I just have to be careful.

i think people lie for many diffrent reasons i surpose i spent most my life lieing but in a different way i made my family seem so perfect and stuff and would make things up about the gifts i got a s a child and all the trips we we all had as a happy family, when infact i have never had a birthday or christmas present in my life untill last year whoo , and i was never took on trips anywhere in fact i had a dreadful upbringing i was abused my family members up intill not that long ago,.but i think you end up ashamed of the truth so you make up a complete new life , as people dont except in this world that bad things happen you end up being dismissed or looked down on by people, who ignore the bad in the world and brush all the suffering others have under the carpet,.and i guess i have just babbled aload of rubbish, anyway my point is just becouse they lie doesnt mean they are a bad person they might be just hideing a bad life they had with a better one they have made up,

sorry for rambleing on.

Thank you Michellenola...there's no need to apologise for rambling on, I really value what you've shared and sorry that you had to create a different reality as a child. I can imagine my friend may have done the same as a child and that he's possibly carried it through into adulthood.

[sundries]

HI i can just tell you my own expereince of lying, why i lie or am economical with the truth with peopel in real life.

1) Im afraid of a bad reaction which will really hurt me/ shame me - - therefore i tend t say im fine when im not when care team ask if im suicidal as htey have told me im manipulative in past and 'blackmailoing them'. I dont know what you do when you dont trust someone but are expected to share you deepest feelings with them or you will get reprisals of being non compliant

2) I stretch the truth when people who dont understand MI ask 'what do you do' I tell them i work at whereever i am volunterring at hte time. If htey say 'is that voluntary ' i do say yes though. I also speak alot about hte things i do do adn kind of leve out htat fact that 85% of my time is actually spent in bed depressed. I dont now what to do when people will want to know why you are out of work or if you say you are ill what is wrong with you (people seem to think they can ask htese questions) but saying BPD or bipolar could lead to stigmatisation adn frankly is none of thier business. It makes it hard to get closer to people thogh as they will find out hte actual full reality.

3) I lie about previous relationships ie i havent dated anyone and i will say i have. This is because most people see that as really weird at 24. In actual fact i really truly believe it is unhealthy to enter a relationship when i am this unhealthy myself and i want to be much healthier than i am cos otherwise im jsut going to end up in an abusive relationship - or do the abusing maybe eg verbal abuse thoguh id hope i wouldnt. I also just dont want to have full sex outside of marriage or at least engagment

4) I also might exaggerate (eg say im beter than i am, say im looking for a job or getting on with a course that i havent acutall attended for 4 weeks) what i am doing to friends who i think would feel very uncomfortable if i told htem how ill i really am. ie all my perfect high flying graduate friends who dont know what to say to an basket case.

5) sometimes i might just say a slight exaggeration or lie cos it backs up something im saying and also is actually something that has happened just maybe not at the time i said. Eg I might say oh i showed my pdoc such and such today when actually ive taken it and hten not shown him but am now going to show him at next meeting. this would be if id said I was going to show it to him. I tend to reflexively lie for things like this I htink cos on some level i think ill be punched if i havent done soemthing. I do howeveer hten try and do it as soon as possible so htat it is true. Also might say 'my friend' such and such if im telling a funny story that happened to someone but thats really jsut cos saying the cousin of my aunt's mother in law.......int very good for a anecdote.

God Ive just decided i really am a compulasive and severely pathological liar. feel crap now

[michellenola]

well all my lies came out just over a year ago when people found out i actually had a crap past rather than the nice one i told everyone ,i surpose that does make me a lier but i didnt want all the pityful looks if i was to tell people the truth,,how ever i think i do still lie now that sundries mentions the bit about being maniplutive, my old mental health worker said i can be maniplutive, i found it upsetting and never told him much again just how low and shit i was, so he never knew i was so struggling inside when he discharged me out of his care as i was *stable* as they put it ,and now i am bloody kicking myself as i think i need him right now as i am still struggling but out of control at the moment,so lieing does kick you up the bum at some point,,but i dont think just becouse certain situations arise which the truth wouldnt do and we have to lie that doesnt make us bad people , so dont worry sundries as if your a compulsive pathological liar im affraid im not far behind you then ,lol. :P

[InnerPeace]

Thanks Sundries and Michellenola...I don't think it makes lying makes people bad when it's a learnt defense mechanism like this. I do feel manipulated to be on the receiving end because the lies are intended to make me feel or think a way that isn't true....but there's a reason and it's not with any intention to do me harm.

My friend will use his illness either to push me away or bring me in closer (that's manipulation), he controls the relationship through his communication or lack of it...he's either doing really badly or taking a new course or just signed up to the gym...and things just don't fit. Other aspects of his life/past are too good to be true and I think he's trying to impress me...he knows I've still been there though through all the variations on his circumstances and that external things aren't important to me.

I would prefer to be told the truth and for him to trust me but I guess that can only come with time. I know he gets scared about the idea of having a relationship and he covers up for that too. He's been quiet for 4 weeks and I exect I will hear from him again and no doubt they'll be some explanation that doesn't seem right but is plausible so I have to either accept it and feel uncomfortable or tell him straight I don't beleive him, which I can't do in case he is telling the truth.

Sometimes though I think he is trusting me more...the times I've said "it would have been ok if xyz", the next time he has told me that he is doing xyz and not something else unbelieveable, but then another bit of a lie creeps in as a kind of safety net.

[rebeccaborderline]

(((((((((((peeps))))))))))))

[kissprudence]

Hi people!

Just wanted to say to Sundries and Michellenola, wow! You two really have guts to be able to talk about your own experience of making things up. I really admire you for that, and I want you to know that I understand where you were coming from when you told stories to people.

You both have real courage to talk about it on the forum (not that I mean anyone is judgemental on here, because everyone is really accepting and cool about everything), and I wanted to say thanks for that. Accepting what you do is so important, and understanding why you do things is a huge step too. I hope you two never feel ashamed for having made things up, because you both had really good reasons, and I'm sure that the people who read your posts will have nothing but the greatest respect for you. I do. In fact, I feel quite humbled by you! Hopefully, that's a humbled face!

You're cooooooooooooool dudes!

Take care,

KP

xx

[InnerPeace]

I've been thinking how pleasantly surprised I am that no one has said "what the hell are you doing wanting to be with someone who lies to you?!"...God knows I've asked myself that question often enough...I'm so torn between asserting my own boundaries and insisting on being treated with respect on one hand, and being in the love with the person underneath and being compassionate and understanding.

How much tolerance is too much? I know I've felt uncmfortable about it so that is too much in that case, and I do feel better for having said to him that I know he isn't being open and honest with me. Maybe an open knowing between us that it does happen allows for more honest communication. He is so wary of being controlled and manipulated and yet I don't think he realises that his avoidance of it means he's doing that to me.

It's probably all academic anyway, he's been quiet for 4 weeks without any explanation so I've no idea if I'll hear from him again, plus I told him that he wasn't ready for a relatonship if he can't be open and honest with me. I just go round and round in circles exeriencing so many different emotions.

[amatracey1]

Hi Innerpeace, I can really understand what you mean when you say you are torn between your own needs to be treat with respect, and being in love with with this guy, you have so much compassion and understanding and sometimes it can be very hard to break away, You seem to have a lot of feeling for this guy, but does he have the same for you? that is what you need to ask yourself.

I believe it is very good to be honest with each other,especially when in a relationship or in a friendship, but some people find it very hard to be honest, it could because of their own insecurities or they may of been hurt badly in the past.

It was very good of you to address this issue with him, and I hope the outcome for you will be positive.

Take care.

[InnerPeace]

Thanks Tracey. Yes he had a horrible past and battling with bipolar now, we haven't talked about his tendency to tell stories but he did promise me last August that he would be honest with me and I understood why he hadn't told me about the past. I guess I'm upset that he still feels the need to continue, he gets defensive if I question him but if we could both openly accept it happens I think that would help.

Yes I know going quiet gives the impression that his feelings for me aren't the same and there's always the risk that I may be deluding myself in thinking that he does have feelings but I'm going to get all spiritual now and say that I know he is a high level soulmate and his feelings for me are the same as mine for him. This relationship is challenging us both to heal and grow spiritually, which is the purpose of soulmate relationships. I can't describe what it's like, I've had soulmate relationships before and they grow in intensity as the spiritual growth continues....but that's a whole other topic...thinking about it, it's one I started a while back in another forum here.

[kissprudence]

Hi Innerpeace,

I really feel for you. You obviously love this guy very much. I really hope the two of you can work something out.

Take care,

KP

xx

[michellenola]

i think the reason why i am not to botherd about people knowing i made things up is the fact that i never did it to harm people, i just did it as i never wanted anyone to know about the abuse i was suffering so i coverd it up by telling everyone how perfect my life was, im not to sure if it is a lie and whether i should feel bad aout this, sometimes i wish i had people i could trust to be honest with, the fact is that people always treat you differnlty whe they know you have been abused and are being abused , so the easiest option for me was to lie and cover it up, obviuosly last year things came out and in away i am glad they did, as now i feel safe maybe its a lesson earnt in away i should have been honest about what was happening to me and maybe i would have been safer earlier, but at the time i thought i would be worse of and was so scared of being honest, i think people lie for so many differnt reasons as so long no one is getting hurt there normally is a reason, thank you kiss prudence, i shall never be ashamed thankyou,

nola

Hi people!

Just wanted to say to Sundries and Michellenola, wow! You two really have guts to be able to talk about your own experience of making things up. I really admire you for that, and I want you to know that I understand where you were coming from when you told stories to people.

You both have real courage to talk about it on the forum (not that I mean anyone is judgemental on here, because everyone is really accepting and cool about everything), and I wanted to say thanks for that. Accepting what you do is so important, and understanding why you do things is a huge step too. I hope you two never feel ashamed for having made things up, because you both had really good reasons, and I'm sure that the people who read your posts will have nothing but the greatest respect for you. I do. In fact, I feel quite humbled by you! Hopefully, that's a humbled face!

You're cooooooooooooool dudes!

Take care,

KP

xx

[kissprudence]

Nola,

BIG hug honey!

KP

xx

[InnerPeace]

I know there's a reason for my guy lying but I do sense that he feels ashamed about it. I wish we could both be open about it happening...I've started to be open by saying that I know and that I want to understand, hopefully he'll take a step forward too. I'm sure he finds himself in a corner over it, how does he tell me that he's lied and being worried about how will I react.

His lies aren't intended to hurt me but they are a problem because the difference between the situation being what he says it is and being what it really is will have an impact on me. It doesn't matter to me what the true situation is, I love him for himself, but I do need to know what the reality is.

He has been very open with me about his childhood, it's the current and recent past that is the problem if you like.

[michellenola]

thank for the hug ,kp needed a hug it helped , nola

Nola,

BIG hug honey!

KP

xx