Project

[nattyone]

Hello

I am fairly new here but i have visited the chatroom and read many of the threads here , for those of you i havent met i am an avid supporter of the PSD concept , for those who aren't familiar , its the use of specially trained dogs to assist those who have Psychiatric illness. I myself have a dog that has helped me no end over the past two years and her training is ongoing and constantly being adapted to help with the symptons and difficulties i experience at any given time .

The illness BPD is new to me , however the symptons are not , i personally have found it very hard to function in the real world in a productive way . I wonder if there are others here who are struggling similarly . If there are i would really like your suggestions. One of the ways in which a person who is training a PSD identifies a new task to train there dog is by breaking down there life and finding the actual points which make things difficult and noting the things they just cant do. Once that is done you try to imagine a robot or a person and what they could do for you to make that which you struggle with or cant do possible.

I am hoping that some of you will help me to identify the exact things that BPD is responsable for and how i can make those better or at least less of an issue day to day .

If anyone is interested in doing this feel free to add your thoughts to this thread or PM me whichever your most comfortable with , your input is greatly appreciated .

bb natty

[Hamza112]

Is this a joke? Dogs for people with bpd? We are not fucking blind...I don't see how some stupid dog can better my life or find solutions to my emotional pains. I'm just so fucking tired of people looking at us like lame, pathetic and crippled fools in vegetative states. I don't need a fucking dog to take care of me. All we ask people si to understand our pain not offer ridicolous suggestions that are considered "trendy" and hot. Bpd doesn't mean mental retardation or blindness. God! No other post has ever pissed me off like this...this is really shocking...i can't believe this...Is this some fucking entreperneur's idea of making money off mentally ill people? I really can't stomach this..i have to go..shit.

[Hamza112]

And your fucking titles is ever more demeaning and condescending than your shitty solution to bpd....project? We are some project to you? Is this for your class? or new book? U need guinae pigs for your project? How much do you charge for the dogs? When does your book come out? What do you expect to gain from thsi so-called projected which is nothing more get rich quick scheme to steal bpd sufferers, most of them woh are on fixed incomes and disability. God!

[nattyone]

oooh hamza nice to meet you too .

i have mental illness myself , i like to find ways to best help me get better , i call it my project im sorry if that word offends you .

I am very happy for you that you have found all the ways to cope that you need , i guess i am still looking .

NObody is making money off of anyone , this is my own dog that i am training myself. i am not the only person who uses a dog to help me , it is a misconception that only the blind can recieve help from a dog . there are many many people with all kinds of disability or illness that have been helped for example people with epilepsy and diabetes .

I am sorry you find the idea so offensive.

bb natty

[bibiddi]

Gosh Hamza,that was quite harsh.It feels like you have made a lot of assumptions,without asking questions.

I dont fully understand Nattys suggestion,its late,and I'm tired,i'll rethink this subject in the morning.

I do know that my dog helps me with my agoraphobia.I feel safer with her by my side,so I can go out more.

[Marchmadness]

Hamza -

Wow that was some reply - maybe you should have thought about others and how the companionship of a dog would

make them feel. I think that if you sat back and thought about how useful service dogs are to not only the handicapped,

blind, elderly, lonely, young, then maybe your thought process would be different. I worked in a school for the physically

changelled, and let me tell you the response we had for autistic children (not retard - which is an insult in itself) was amazing.

There was a gentelness with them, also my grandmother in a nursing home, the way the elderly would light up by the love

the received from the dogs visiting, lets see the blind - well I have trained a dog personally for the blind, very rewarding work

(try it, it might help release some of your anger). My view point is if it helps us take some of the focus off of our BPD issues,

anxiety, PTSD, or any other disorder we have then god bless the person who is taking a step in helping us. They are taking a

step in trying to understand us, not just put us in a hospital and throw away the key. Something is better then nothing. I

understand your anger and you have a right to your own opinion, but be prepared to hear other view points different then

yours. We are all here looking for support and answers - not judgement.

Marchmadness

[bjw]

I won't be quite as harsh, but with my experience the only way I can see an animal helping is if it is companionship. A way to alleviate loneliness, so to speak. I know that with this illness you constantly cycle between love and hate and have obsessive relationships that often end in you pushing someone you care about away from you, never knowing if you were the one that went sour or if it was them. To top it all off, your self-esteem dwindles to nothing to the point that you harm yourself, and it leaves you feeling lonely, angry, paranoid, afraid, and just not feeling like living anymore. So, you must understand why people react so harshly to a suggestion like that. I think an animal companion could be useful if it is used as a means of distraction. However, I can't see a bpd person walking around with a guide dog or anything like that.

I have a cat that I pet sometimes when I'm about to have a trigger, and I let her sleep at the head of my bed. It almost seems like the cat can tell I'm sad when I'm crying because she always jumps up to me. So, in that respect an animal can be a good distraction from bpd symptoms, but I think that's about it.

[stuart-g]

Hamza 112, Shame on you!

I'm sorry that you arn't wise enough to understand the value of a true freind who looks after and protects you . Having owned a labrador he became a valuable part of the family and gave every love and warmth.

You appear to enjoy attacking people without reason I gateher from you totally unprovoked attacks that you do not understand or appreciate the work that others do, to try and improve the lives of themselves and others!

Natty I'm sorry that your thread has been met with unjustified critisem and anger! I'd like to say Well done thinking out side the box. I hope that your dog gives people the love and support that only pets can! You don't need to be blind to get love and support from a loyal Pet. So well done! Keep up the good work!

Stuart-G

[Hamza112]

I'm sorry if initial reaction was harsh or judgemental but i will nto apologize for how i feel. I have had a chance to calm down and still believe having a dog or a pet doesn't help one deal with their issues. I'm denying the companionship animals provide and that some people grow for nurturing pets but i highly doubt that in my times of crises a dog will do anything to alleviate my pain. Perhaps i reacted so harshly because i watched a program in which inmates were given horses to take care of on a ranch in an effort to teach them discipline and ease their transition back into society.

stuart-g--u can shame all u want...Having a dog may have worked for you but most people don't think owning a pet is solution to their medical problems.

and when did u see me attacking anybody else? And furthermore, who made you the spokesperson for natty? What i say to other people is none of your business..i suggest you stay out of it, old man.

[crunchynut]

Hi Natty, I have a dog and as my mental health has become worse, I felt he was the only think that was constant in my life. Over the years I have lost more and more confidence and self esteem and it is only he that motivates me to even get out of bed and I know that I would not ever venture outdoors if it was not for him. This may even make me sound even more of a pathetic person but I doubt I would be here if it has not been for him. I dread the day that I lose him. He is a great help to me and a great pal.

[nobodyzdream]

companionship is the only thing I could see really coming from it. On days that I struggle to do daily life things, it's not that I cannot do them, it's that emotionally I'm blocked. I can go through the motions, I can do it all, but it doesn't feel real to me, therefore, I feel like I cannot do it. So I don't necessarily need help doing these things.

I used to have a cat, and I talked to him a LOT (when I lived with my mother still), and I still do when I go visit him. It was nice.

I personally think it depends on the person. Some people when they are down, hardly will take care of themselves on some days, some people throw themselves into doing things for others, some people withdraw... a pet could be a nice distraction and "someone" to talk to (play with, walk with, etc.) which could help some people, or it could be more responsibility to others and will just wind up being one more thing they are neglecting-ultimately making them feel worse.

If you are the type that needs to throw themselves into something to ease it, or distract, then go for it by all means.

For me, there are days I worry that I am neglecting my children-I go through the emotions but am withdrawn regardless. They make me laugh, they make me smile, it helps, but it doesn't take it away, it's still there. Not saying getting a pet is the same as a child, lol, but for one without children, the similarities (especially with a pup since they need lots of care, they go through stages like the terrible twos with teething and such, and they love to play and really need the attention). ....lol, and to clear up what I meant by that XD no, the kiddos are not like a pet to me, lol-they are a HUGE part of my life, but... ugh, talking in circles-back to the point, lol. For someone with BPD, overwhelming guilt for some is a big thing that recurrs, especially over things we are not taking care of as well as we think that we should.

You also have to factor in animal people, etc. ...my mother runs a collie rescue shelter and you can tell they came from homes where something (not exactly sure what) was going on. The people take them there, they can't deal with them anymore, then they call every day to make sure my mother is doing everything they weren't doing to take care of the dog themselves. It's really sad overall for me to see how many collies (which are really really sweet dogs by nature and VERY intuitive to their owners) are scared to death of people if someone's voice barely gets raised, they don't want to be petted, they are scared to death, and to top it off, their owners abandoned them. I don't know if anyone is understanding where I'm going with this, lol...

For me, I wouldn't get one simply because I know I get to feeling guilty if I didn't color long enough with my kids one day. I can't imagine having a pet, and if I decided I wasn't able to take care of them, I cannot imagine what I would feel like if I had to give one away. I worry enough about causing my children emotional trauma in the long run with the unstable moods, and they'll be able to tell me-no one knows what has happened to these dogs that my mother winds up nursing back to being fit to live in a home.

hmmm... am I making any sense at all? damn overthinking...

***As an added bonus-look at all the different responses you got here... as far as getting an understanding of BPD, think about all of those responses coming out of the same exact person within minutes of each other. That would be what I go through every day, every time I think about one thing I have 5 different views on it-any time someone asks me a question, it can trigger any emotion out of me depending on how I perceive it at the time, and they will get whatever response is in my head on the subject at that exact moment, whether it be love, anger, sadness, happiness, or just plain numb to emotion on the subject altogether. It can be a different response at any minute of the day I am asked, and it can be asked on different days and get completely different/contradicting responses-but to me, even tho they contradict, at that moment, that is exactly how I feel and think about the subject. Contradiction is just an appearance, but confusion and pain are really what is going on on the inside. So take that-and think about what would be hard to do in day to day life if you had to do it then be glad you don't ;)

[cherylbcool]

again liz you make perfect sense.....you dont talk in circles ....the brain just thinks in circles......its normal.......and you always write enough to get clear ideas of what you are trying to convey......................the dog helper.....hmmmm........i have alays had a dog my whole life......cause they already know how to treat people....with love kindness and loyalty......they help me learrn what to do sometimes....when i cry my dog comes to me and sits real close to me........and cares that im sad........people on the other hand just want to make me stop crying so they can feel better......my dog want me to feel better.............hey nattyone......can you tel me where to get my papers that says that my dog is a working dog and that i need him to go with me everywhere i go..................because they wont let me take him......like to the store......out to eat.....there is always no dogs allowed signs.....only seeing eye dogs can go in...................my dog has to be with me all the time.......we help each other............and when he cant go i have to leave him behind..../. and he has huge abandonment issues because someone left him forever...........i didnt expect him to be perfect he came from a shelter...........so its okay that he has issues..............he gets sad untill i get home.........and when i get home he greets me like i have been gonefor days................i need the papers.......................that would be awsome if i didnt have to abandon him over and over................cause he dont know im coming back when i leave.....................................but thats about me.........................but for others.......i think that would just make thier life harder.....especially if they happen to raising children..............they have enough on thier plate......................and when the dog didnt get what it needed it would make them feel more guilty than they already do................dogs have needs too...........................i cant wait till wilson(my dog) gets to go with me.................we need each other all the time...............

[flightlessdove]

I'm sorry if initial reaction was harsh or judgemental but i will nto apologize for how i feel. I have had a chance to calm down and still believe having a dog or a pet doesn't help one deal with their issues. I'm denying the companionship animals provide and that some people grow for nurturing pets but i highly doubt that in my times of crises a dog will do anything to alleviate my pain. Perhaps i reacted so harshly because i watched a program in which inmates were given horses to take care of on a ranch in an effort to teach them discipline and ease their transition back into society.

stuart-g--u can shame all u want...Having a dog may have worked for you but most people don't think owning a pet is solution to their medical problems.

and when did u see me attacking anybody else? And furthermore, who made you the spokesperson for natty? What i say to other people is none of your business..i suggest you stay out of it, old man.

I understand that in crisis an animal may not work for you Hamza, as each of us is free to their own point of view.

I personally feel my cat is my saviour - i have so much love for her i couldnt stand leaving her, and she often eases the pain as she is extremely loyal to me. She never judges me........Shes always following me around and in my lap.............thats what matters the most. Shes my friend and its unconditional love i dont get anywhere else.

I would also like to point out that BPD makes us lash out at ppl at times when angry and frustrated. Stuart is lovely and i was hurt when you called him old man. I understand you are not happy Hamza but pls dont be personal.

These BPD forums are designed to vent and share ideas so thank you for this post natty

and for your ideas.

Karina xxx

[Warrior Princess]

this is quite a thread and i'm too "out of it" to make a proper reply but let me just add that I was on the phone to the crisis team once and I made the comment "I'm not really alone because my dogs are with me".

So my dogs helped me to remember that I was not alone or abandoned... fear of abandonment being one of the symptoms of BPD. They also look at me with big brown eyes that love me no matter what. Unconditional love! they sleep on my feet and go crazy when I come home becuase they are so pleased to see me.

My German Shepherd is an excellent watch dog and very protective so he helps me to feel safe. That feeling of "unsafeness" is another symptom of BPD.

I think the biggest issue for people with BPD is self harm... at least it is for me but everyone is different. if Only my dogs could be trained to BARK every time I picked up a razor or a knife. if they could be trained to not stop barking at me until I put the thing down. Of course that would make it very hard to chop up vegatables at dinner... but it might make me think about what I'm doing with that stupid razor blade!

anyother symptom of BPD is feeling like you don't exist. When I feel this way I suppose that's the time to get my dog to lick me in the face. Gross eh? but it reminds me that I'm real.

I'd be really interested to hear what you have trained your dog to do to help you with your mental illness. I havn't really trained my dog to do anything they just naturally seem to know what to do. they know to jump in my lap and put thier heads on my knee and just look at me saying "I love you" over and over with thier eyes. they know to follow me around constantly and give me attention so that I can give them attention. They are natural therapists! so is my Cockatiel because he talks back to me and lets me know that he's heard me by repeating my sentences.

anyway I'm going to go lay down because I feel like im asleep at the moment.

Paine.

[hmmm]

My dogs give me a reason to live.

[celticgirl]

My horses have given me a focus to my life and a reason to get up in the morning.Before i had them,i was hospitalised a lot,and often wouldn't leave the house. Now,i have to get up and follow a routine,no matter how i'm feeling.Having them doesn't stop the feelings i have....the emptiness,not existing feeling,ptsd symptoms,depression etc.....but they give me something to hold on for,a distraction when i can't get out of my own head,a purpose because they rely on me......and they give love,also they make me laugh a lot when they are playing or being cheeky.Thanks to them,i have now trained and qualified to work with horses as an instructor,and i set up as self employed 2 1/2 years ago after years of being unable to work due to illness....i still have a lot of bad times,but i wouldn't have got this far without my horses.I talk to them when i can't face finding the words to talk to a person,i hug them and feel their solidity and safety,and i feel truly blessed to have them.

Everyone is entitled to their opinion and views on this,but lashing out at others because you don't agree with them isn't helpful and can in itself be very triggering.....personally i find that much more offensive than the original post.....i hope things have settled now and that everyone can be allowed their views respectfully.

[nattyone]

Thank you all very much for your replies .

Bibidi

Dogs can be very benificial for people with agrophobia , the feeling safe when your with your dog is very common and that feeling can be built upon . For example if you can identify what it is exactly that your afraid of sometimes a dog can be trained to help prevent that thing or reduce the feeling that thing is likely to happen , for example because i dissociate when i am out i have a fear of crossing the road in a dangerous manner or getting lost because i dont recognise where i am when i come out of a dissociative spell, so i trained my dog to stop at all curbs and nudge my leg and only to cross on a specific command , this so far has stopped me crossing roads automatically , she also can take me home automatically on command so if i dont recognise where i am i can just give the command and she will get me back on a route that i recognise.

Marchmadness

Thank you very much for your supportive post , i am glad your one of those who has witnessed the benificial effects of animals on people who have problems of a wide variety.

bjw

thank you for your post , i do understand what your saying , especially about the changing moods and non existant self esteem , i would like to think that my dog is having an effect on my self esteem by virtue of the fact that she is giving me a focus and some small sense of achievement when i manage to train her to do something that is usefull, it just makes me feel that little bit less useless. i keep a log of her training and sometimes when i am very down i look at it to remind myself that i can actually do something where i can see solid results at the end of it . Sometimes a distraction is just what you need , im not suggesting these things are a cure , just hopefully of some benifit when trying to cope everyday.

STuart-G

Thank you for you post of support , it means a lot , my dog is also a labrador , she is the first labrador i have had , but now i can see why people love them so much , they certainly seem to have a manner all of there own , you cant beat the smiling face and the beating tail of a labrador , its better than chocolate i think

Hamza

hamza you are entitled to your opinion, thats fine but i think you need to understand that just because something doesn't work for you that doesnt mean it wont work for anyone , as for a dog alleviating your pain in a crisis , i dont know but there are dogs who have saved there owners after an overdose as the people lay there and asked for the phone , the phone was brought to them by their dog so that they could call the emergency services , would you belive they even have special phones designed so the dog can make the call ?

Crunchy nut

That is just how i feel , this is why i spend time and effort expanding on that so that as much of my time as possible is spent focusing on her and our partnership instead of the actual doom and gloom and complete feeling of worthlessness that i feel so often. she is the highlite of my day and her constant unconditional love means a lot to me , yes i know its sappy but its how i feel.

nobodyzdream

Thank you for your post , i do understand what your saying , i am often just going throught the motions rather than being truly emotionally involved in things , its all or nothing with me , often the nothing times feel safer but i know lifes not meant to be like that , with out joy. I suffer terribly with the guilty feelings , wondering if im screwing up my kids lives and would they be better off with out me . I dont yet have a solution to those feelings , thats why i keep on searching , at least while im searching i am less involved in analysing that feeling so that it grows bigger and bigger until im in an all consuming depression . I dont have the answers , i wish i did , i just keep on looking maybe i will find something to help maybe i wont , its why i posted this thread because it always helps me to hear other peoples thoughts because oftentimes my own mind is so muddled and changeing all the time i cant think straight or else im so pessimistic nothing in the world will help. Im just trying to find away to get some equilibrium and balance in my life rather than the rollercoaster and spinning wheel that it is currently.

cherylbcool

i am glad you have the support of your dog , sometimes when the world is cruel and that dog is all we have its what keeps us going. In order to have your dog go everywhere with you its not a matter of paperwork or certification its a matter of two things , well three i guess number one you have to be disabled by your condition number two your dog has to be specifically trained in a way to mitigate that disability , ie it has to be able to allow you to do something which you cant do otherwise and three the dog has to have a perfect temperamnet so that it can cope with going out and about with you. If you are in america certification is not a legal requirement , but the duty is on you to uphold the highest level of training and behaviour in your dog so as not to damage the access rights of others. working with an assistance dog is not easy , it does have its downsides and takes a huge commitment , however for some people the benifits and freedom are far outweighing the downsides and so people carryon .

flightless dove

thank you for your post of support , i amg lad you have your cat to support you, unconditional love can never be overrated and our pets are often the only place we can get that .

paine warrior

thank you for your post.

Its great you have your dog helping you already. Dogs can be trained to help reduce self harm for example if you always sit in the same place and use the same thing to harm with you can train the dog so that becomes a cue for the dog to put his feet in your lap , i think it would be quite hard to self harm with a GSD in the way . when your dog licks your face when your feeling unreal that would count as a task because he is doing something to bring you back to reality. Your dog is working for you with out you even knowing it . It takes a little effort to try and think of ways in which your dog can help you but its worth the effort. my own dog is trained to help with my dissociation , panic and migraines primarily , she acts as a focal point when im out so that i dont get overloaded and start dissociating but she can also nudge me to bring me out of it , she gets in my lap at home if i am obsessing on the computer or have dissociated and she helps me to determine if the noises and things i see are real or hallucinations. She actually does a fair number of really usefull things that just generally help to keep me safe and to feel safer.

bb natty

[orlath]

Personally, I think that to have animals for this is simply to USE them. For me, it shows a total dis-respect for animals.

What happens if an animal forms a strong bond with its carer and then that person is hospitalised, imprisoned, starts to become unable to look after themselves, let alone their pets? Either the animal is shoved onto someone else who may not really want to look after it, or it ends up in an animal home. Suddenly the animal is not as important as it was anymore and it has to get used to living with someone else - that is, if it is even lucky enough to be re-homed. All the attention is given to the person and the animal is all but forgotten.

I don't doubt that many people choose to have a pet with the best intentions in mind, and that many love and care for their pets and the pets can live long and happy lives...but what about all the ones whose endings are not so happy? A person can have the best intentions in the world but it is impossible for them to say that they will never be hospitalised for example, and there is no guarantee that a person will always be able to cope.

Across the country, hundreds of animal homes are full of thousands of animals that have been dumped as though they are nothing more than inanimate objects. While I accept that some animals are homeless because their owners died, the vast majority are there because of selfish people who, while they were once eager happy to love and look after an animal at a time in their life when it was convenient with them, have suddenly found themselves 'unable to cope' and have abandoned their so-called 'pet'.

I am fed up with people going on about how animals have 'helped' them to overcome all kinds of things - while I don't deny that is true, at what cost to the animals is this? Animals are not stuffed toys which are there to be stroked and cuddled whenever their owners feel like a bit of comfort. They - just like people - have a great many needs that must be acknowledged, attended to, and fulfilled regularly and consistently.

Animals are living creatures - they not the same as medications, self-help books, or toys, and as such, I believe they should not be picked up used, and then cast off at people's whims.

The fact that some animals can be trained to respond in certain ways implies that the animal is happy to comply. People may say that if an animal isn't happy, then it would not do such and such - but in many cases, what choice does an animal have? When animals receive punishment or scolding if they display behaviour that a person decides is 'incorrect' - is it not natural in most cases for them to eventually display 'agreeable' behaviour in order to avoid punishment? When this happens, can a person honestly say that the animal is doing something out of choice and that the animal is really happy to do this? I do not believe it is possible to truly know what an animal is thinking - attempts to use behaviourism merely results in animals being humanised.

I don't want to turn this into a debate about whether or not animals should be kept as pets generally, my point is that surely if there is a strong likelihood that a person might not always be able to look after a pet properly and consistently, other forms of therapies that do not involve using an animal, should be considered.

[nattyone]

Orlath nobody in the world can guarentee anything about there life . So with the stance you hold nobody should keep animals at all . For the record my dog likes to train , she enjoys the interaction and rewards , she has not been trained using punishment it isnt neccersary.

Also she is a rescue dog not one that was bred for me . Personally for me i belive working dogs get a better deal than pet dogs in many instances as they have a lot of time and effort put into there care and health and are kept mentally and physically stimulated by training sessions and they are rarely left on there own like so many pets which are left at home alone whilst there owners go to work or go out enjoying themselves.

bb natty

[celticgirl]

I make sure that my horses needs are taken care of above everything else.....not only their physical care,feed ,farriery,vet etc,but also their need to have companions,space to roam,a secure herd.....i also have a healer,back specialist and herbalist who attend to them regularly,and am constantly reading and resarching to ensure i'm up to date with all the latest developments in horse care. Both my horses were rescued,one from a very cruel and neglectful background,and its taken me several years to rehabilitate her and gain her trust.My other horse has joint problems and has regular physio,medication and exercise to keep her as mobile as possible. When i took my horses on,i made a commitment to keep them together as they are a pair and to take care of them for the rest of their lives.I have also made arrangements so that if anything should happen to me,my horses will be kept together with qualified carers at a sanctuary that i do some work for....and financial support would go with them,i don't expect anyone to take on my responsibilities without payment for that.Fot that reason,i would never commit suicide.....i have others to care for,i have chosen to have them in my life and i owe it to them to stay around.

I have not 'used' my horses to get better.....their presence in my life has helped me beyond any medicine,but i do not expect anything of them....they just have to be horses.It wouldn't matter if they could never be ridden again....they are my family,and i will care for them until their time on earth is up.I never took horses on expecting them to fix me....i wanted to give a safe and secure home to my 'girls',something often lacking in the horse world,where they are often bought and sold without a second thought.Yes,there are people who take on animals and don't think long term about their needs......but that doesn't apply to everyone,and it shouldn't be assumed that just because you have a mental health problem that animals are a crutch for support......both animals and humans are capable of more complexity than that.

[orlath]

Thanks for both of your comments. I do have a tendancy to get overheated about things rather suddenly and I did not mean this as an attack against anyone in particular; so I'm sorry if I have upset anyone

Also, I didn't really mean for my comments to apply to EVERYONE who keeps pets. I do realise that nothing in life is certain and that no two situations are the same.

I just get really upset when I see so many animals in homes who have been dumped by people (all kinds of people) who just can't be bothered with them anymore. That's all really. I probably ranted on a bit too much... :wacko:

[celticgirl]

Thats ok Orlath.....it makes me angry and hurt to see animals who've been dumped or abused too.....i do some work for a small sanctuary and most of our horses there have been passed on because they got too old/ill/expensive.....it makes me cry sometimes because they don't know why they suddenly get passed around or pushed away.....i think sometimes i connect to it because i know that feeling of abandonment and bewilderment....as do many of us with mental health 'stuff' i think.You made some very valid points though....too many people take animals on without thought or care for the fact that they are living beings with needs all of their own.....the rescue pigs at our sanctuary were kept in a flat as pets....due to this,one of them has huge problems.....some people just don't think.I would take on more animals if i could....but i also know my first responsibility is to care properly for those that i have,and financially having any more would compromise that.Thanks for your words....very thought provoking xx

[nobodyzdream]

I have a rough time with that too, orlath-every time I go to my mom's, she has at least 2 new collies she is trying to get to the point of being able to re-home. Most of them, though-just take time, depending on the situation, and then they're alright once they realize they trust their new life and all. A lot of times though, it doesn't wind up a happy ending due to not so much the level of fear and such, but health neglects over time from before her getting them .

Definitely not saying that no one should have one, but to remember the amount of responsibility for sure before getting one. It's great how you all manage to do it every day lol, if I don't color with my kids 5 minutes longer, and feel like I should have, I'm bawling like a baby by the time that I go to sleep over it on some days, and have a tremendously rough time taking care of myself on some days. I've often thought a puppy would be fun to have around, not only for me, but for the kids-maybe to distract them from watching me so closely when mommy isn't doing so well. But then I realize it's just not time for me to have one yet Eventually I probably will.

My mother's dogs really enjoy training-she's taken them to a trainer since she got them (her own, not the ones she's adopting out because she doesn't know how the new owner would like them to behave and all-for instance, some people don't mind their dogs licking their face, my mother cannot stand it, so that could make a difference in re-homing them if she completely trained them not to). When I go there, the kitty and the dogs do help a lot for me-it's extremely uncomfortable to be around her most of the time, and it's nice to have a buddy that just wants to follow me around and lay his head on my lap. She has one dog you can tell is really bummed out because the obstacle course she used to have set up for them isn't up anymore. He used to run through it all the time, now there's this tunnel thing laying in the yard and he goes over to it wagging his tail occasionally then looks back as if to say "what the heck is wrong with you people? can't you see this is a perfectly useful tunnel just laying here???" lol. It's cute-he does a lot of other training things now though, and still LOVES the frisbees

[Effervescence]

Well, good golly Moses, what a pother we're all in here--having those borderliner rages right and left!!

Poor Natty, bet you never expected to step into a Level-5 Hurricane just for asking an interesting question!!!

I don't find your suggestion offensive at all!! In fact it's a fascinating topic. People with all kinds of problems are using service animals now, and it's often extremely helpful. In fact I've heard of people who otherwise would have been put into a "home" if it weren't for their service animals--which generally become also greatly loved pets.

And it's not about "using" animals either. Nobody loves animals more than I do--my bank account is nearly dry, I give money to so many animal rights' groups --and I think that "service animals" easily become indispensable to their "person"--they become not just a "helper" but a beloved family member.

My cat Amber gives me the greatest joy in the world--I would do anything for her--and I can promise you, she is one happy little cat!!! We make each other happy, because we love each other. She's incredibly sensitive to moods--she can tell I'm upset even if I'm not crying or anything--she'll come straight to me and get on my lap or lie on my feet until I'm feeling better. I don't know how she senses my feelings, but she does--it's amazing!!

Natty, I think your question was very intriguing and I'm truly astonished that anyone was "offended" at it. And I'm sorry for the unkind remarks the peeps here know better than that!!!

I've heard of people whose entire lives were changed--for the better-by having service animals in their homes. And these were people with psychological problems too!!

[Rook98]

We'll all have our difference of opinion on the usefulness of animals during a person's recovery- it's only natural.

So, I'll add my own 2 cents.

Dogs would be great companion for anyone who is expreienced at caring for one. Probably giving a dog to just anyone may not work so well. I'm the last one in the world to judge anything people try to do for recovery -but-as far as having the dog trained to do certain tasks in a crisis situation may be stretching things a bit. Your Project will be a good opportunity to prove people like me wrong. All the best.