Project

[Effervescence]

It doesn't have to be only dogs, you know. All kinds of animals have been used--successfully--as service (or therapy) animals.

Did you know people are now training miniature horses as service animals?! It's true!! They live inside with the person and have to be really really small---small enough in fact (even when full-grown) to walk under a table in the house. I saw one in training (on TV) and it was the most amazing thing I ever saw!!!

I wouldn't give up my Amber for anything--but it would be so cool to have a miniature horse living in the house too!!! :D

[stuart-g]

I'm sorry if initial reaction was harsh or judgemental but i will nto apologize for how i feel. I have had a chance to calm down and still believe having a dog or a pet doesn't help one deal with their issues. I'm denying the companionship animals provide and that some people grow for nurturing pets but i highly doubt that in my times of crises a dog will do anything to alleviate my pain. Perhaps i reacted so harshly because i watched a program in which inmates were given horses to take care of on a ranch in an effort to teach them discipline and ease their transition back into society.

stuart-g--u can shame all u want...Having a dog may have worked for you but most people don't think owning a pet is solution to their medical problems.

and when did u see me attacking anybody else? And furthermore, who made you the spokesperson for natty? What i say to other people is none of your business..i suggest you stay out of it, old man.

Hamza112 You know nothing about me whatsover so please keep your personal comments to your self! Nobody has asked you to appologise for any thing. Just like me You are entitled to your opinion! I respect that and further more I also respect your right to defend it! What I dont understand is the way you costantly contradict what you are saying! You wrote "I'm denying the companionship animals provide" Silly question but why? I thought that one of the root causes of bpd is abandonment and the fear of it happening! Having something you can love and rely on must sure help you? Surely the love from anything at all is better than nothing! This is clearly a bpd issue its listed in Both the American and English Crieria for BPD. Having a pet clearly does help people with bpd deal with their issues. Look at the comments on this thread! Like "having a pet gives me a reason for living." (Was written or something simular)

I am not a spokes person for Nat as you suggested. I can only speak from my own experiance. That is why when I replied to the post I gave my own experiance as an example and you say "having a dog may have worked for you!" (Yes thats why I posted!) I can tell you it did! So if people find things that help isn't it right to pass it on to others?

Clearly a dog didn't help me with all of my medical problems? But then neither has my G.P. I'm actually happy dealing with my problems one at a time! I don't think any one will ever magically fix every thing at a once! I think that is a an unrealistic goal!

When did I see you attacking anyone else? ( Wouldn't you like to know!) I take I NOW you calling me an old man another attack.... Interesting do you think i'm old because I talk wisely? Have you got a clue how old I am? I bet you don't even know what my business is? or even used to be?

What you say to people on a forum is my business. If I am a member, which I am! I don't tell you what to do. So please don't tell me! As a person that has Big Abandoment issues I'm amazed that you arn't greatful for any helpful suggestions! If the Owner of this site has any problems with anything I post I'm sure he will tell me himself.. He will not expect you to do it!

Stuart-G

[gingernut]

I have never seen a four legged friend cause so much uproar. Thankfully I have had my flea program so I wont be joining in.

Ginger

[rebeccaborderline]

:lol: Ginger

[stuart-g]

Ginger,

I don't think its the "four legged friend" that is causing an uproar, If only people were more like dogs!

Stuart-G

[Joshua]

Personally i nearly died laughing at the first replies to this post. Just the shock of it.

I can see there is lots of varied feedback to this. Great to read.

Good luck and take care

Try keep calm though guys, not everyone has a golden mind like mine and would be amused.

[innermuddle]

i have to say i have never much thought about the dog idea before but i know how much i love animals and i definitely think there could be something in the dog thing even if it is for companionship. My friend is disabled and has a dog and their relationship is so strong i envy it. For me it is tortoises, i love my tortoises, they give me a reason to keep going and something to look after. I love them

[cherylbcool]

orlath.....i dont accept your apology........you said what you said...and saying you are sorry does not take it back.........what you do is permanent.........forever........you can get your point across without spewing venom and attacking people............im just curious about something,......................... why are you so concerned and worried about not dis-respecting animals.........and you are not concerned about disrespecting people here...................i trigger very easily.......and thats why i do not go to dark topics very often......but i do go there if i need to vent and spew built up venom..........i am new to this forum and it has helped me tremendously..........i hope you can take the time to learn how to use the forum in a way that is more respectful of the couragous people who need to use this forum to help thier mental illness........like me.....................i am not attacking you.............just letting you know...........how your words can hurt.....................and for me i dont need any more pain.......................................i am also not trying to make you feel shamed.....im sure you already do enough of that to yourself....................i do hope you can learn to use this forum to help and not hurt

[Hamza112]

stuart-g

I only called you old man after you attacked me with your first post. Like i said, u don't speak for any1 else. No1 else has attacked me for voicing my opinions..only you! Why? Because you are a rude person with nothing to do. Decent people like marchmadness have to tried to reason ith me although i was highly irritated and too angry to reason with ...It should have been obvious to you that i was in a bad mood and should avoided angering me further.

the comment i made about denying the companionship animals provide was clearly a typo and if you looked before jumping to concuisions you would have known... you need to look at the context in which the statment was said. You were just nit-picking my post to find one little mistake to attack me with.. I meant to say I'm NOT DENYING THE COMPANIONSHIP ANIMALS PROVIDE...Big enough for you, old man or do you need bigger magnifying glasses?

and yes, i would like to know where and when u have seen me attack other people? U think i like conversating or asking questions? I asked for a reason every1 would know what a FUCKING liar u are...let's see proof..otherwise, shut your ass...U are a bitter old man without a life...stop fucking with me because u will not get anywhere..

[Joshua]

Hamza112

If you choose to express your self with such a tone again it will be me that will be "fucking with you" and i will get some where in removing you from this forum

Please calm this post down!

Thank you

[Hamza112]

Joshua,

Do you see the not "calm" posts written by stuart-g? Where is his warning? Or am i the only one wrong in your eyes? U don't have to worry about removing me from the forum...I will remove myself...Thanks for being impartial and playing mediator in this argument...I'm so glad u didn;t take sides at all.

[Joshua]

Excuse me, i was addressing you about your behaviour and yours alone.

If i have to deal with any other member then i will do so, but nothing will divert me from the way you have just responded in this post.

You are responsible for your behaviour and will accept my advice or as mentioned there will be consequences.

if you choose to stomp your feat and leave thats also your choice, you have my advice.

choice is with you

[Warrior Princess]

selfish people who, while they were once eager happy to love and look after an animal at a time in their life when it was convenient with them, have suddenly found themselves 'unable to cope' and have abandoned their so-called 'pet'.

I am in the process of selling some of my horses. The reason I am selling them is because I LOVE them! I am unwell and not coping so for thier sake I am choosing to let them go to another home where they can be properly looked after. i recently GAVE a horse away because I wasn't coping. I wouldn't call that selfish at all. I would call it sensible.

Most of the time animals are mine for life. Til the end of thier life or mine. But I have BPD and i over spend... usually when I over spend it's on animals. why? because they are better friends than people. When I realize that I've over done it I have to do what is best for the animal not myself. I'd rather keep em all but I can't. I need to go to DBT to learn how to NOT do what I do which is collect horses. I have made a contract with my favorite friend Sally that I will NOT buy any more horses! I'm goin to put it in writing.

This thread has become very heated and people have felt quite offended by each other. I have found it extremely difficult to read this thread because of that. I have not read every post because it's breaking my heart. We are here to support and love one another not to offend and attack each other. maybe some of those attacks are actually "imagined" and maybe some of them are real. Either way, they just need to stop and lets get back to loving and supporting one another. the feelings are real and I'm not denying them or anyones right to express those feelings. Text is such a difficult format to communicate in because things can be taken wrong when you can't see the expression on someones face. They can also get very harsh because we are talking to an inanimate object, our computers, rather than a real person face to face but let us not forget that a real person is reading and that and they have BPD which means they have emotions that are even more powerful than those who don't have the diagnosis.

Love one another and forgive one another, give each other some grace and some space. our differing views do not have to be a wide chasm between us.

Paine warrior.

[Hamza112]

I take full responsibility for my behavior and even apologized to the maker of this thread. But that's beside the point. My problem is you threatening with removal and expulsion in public while the other guilty party in this argument is not mentioned at all. I believe you have to be fair..If u scold me in public then u need to do the same with stuart-g, who started this whole mess if u care about facts at all. If u needed to advice me, you could have done so in private by dropping me a message...I can assure this argument wouldn't have continued as long as it did...I like being on this site and if u want to deprive me of that, that;s up to you..but it's not everything to me. There are plenty of other support sites..

[Joshua]

Im pleased you have been able to do so.

Im also pleased you like this site.

I believe your first response to this thread to be quite intimidating and agressive. Im sorry if you feel me publically addressing you was not the right way to go about things and maybe if the same situation occours again i can take your preference into consideration.

Please keep this topic calm

[Hamza112]

Fine

[Warrior Princess]

Fine

Hamza take a deep breath. You are loved! I know right now it feels like a ton of bricks just crashing down all around you and your torn between running and staying. It's just a good time to get some distance! especially from this thread. it's not really that important in the grand sceme of things. It's a fleeting moment. A blink of an eye. It will pass! and maybe when it's all over you will find a good use for the bricks. They might help you build something.

Paine.

[Warrior Princess]

By distance I don't mean leaving I just mean taking a break and giving yourself a break.

[Hamza112]

Paine,

Thanks a lot for your kind words. I'm just weighing my options. It just seems obvious that some people don't want me here and i'm not sure if i should stay where i'm not wanted. I mean, after this anybody who reads will consider me a monster and hte fact the owner of the site sided with the person who wronged does not look good for me...I was really taken aback by this. This is the last place i expected to be ganged upon...I'm just saying goodbye to those whom i have come to like on this and be on my way..

[Warrior Princess]

Paine,

Thanks a lot for your kind words. I'm just weighing my options. It just seems obvious that some people don't want me here and i'm not sure if i should stay where i'm not wanted. I mean, after this anybody who reads will consider me a monster and hte fact the owner of the site sided with the person who wronged does not look good for me...I was really taken aback by this. This is the last place i expected to be ganged upon...I'm just saying goodbye to those whom i have come to like on this and be on my way..

I don't think it's that anyone doesn't want you here. I'm pretty sure Joshua wants you here he just doesn't want arguments and personal attacks here. Don't let that sink into you and think its YOU that no one wants. Yuo have to seperate the behavior from yourself. yes take accountability for what you do but remember it's the behavior that's not wanted not the person.

I know that no one wants my angry out bursts and other symptoms of my BPD but that has nothing to do with them not wanting me. They just want to help me change my behavior and that's what Josh wants for you. To help you! At the same time he needs to keep this forum a safe place for all of us so he has to protect us as a whole as well as individuals. Does that make sense?

I know it FEELS like he sided against you but not everything is as it feels. Soemtimes things feel one way when really they are another. It's probably more of a case that you were the first and the last one to post with anger and a lot of "f" words. Stuart is not currently posting and I'm sure if he was he'd get an ear full as well! I got an earful on a different site because I acted out in anger. I felt the same way you do now. Ganged up on! I havn't gone back to that site in a few days because I'm giving myself a break. I didn't leave it... because I feel it's good support so just do the same thing. Take some time. it's amazing how people forget things like this. I don't think you're a monster at all I think you have BPD and that means outbursts of Anger which is a symtom that we ALL suffer from. If anyone doesn't understand that then they need to re read the symptoms!

you will be ok just focus on what is good in your life not on what is negative right now. Take a break!

phone is ringing so gotta go.

paine

[Hamza112]

Right now all i feel anger and disappointment...It's like two people committing a crime..one gets prison term while the other gets community service..It's totally unfair. Just because he is not posting right now doesn't mean he won't see what joshua says. He could have "adviced" us boht in the same post...

I wanna thank you again for your kind and wise words. I will consider staying away for a few days and see where things stand...bye.

[cherylbcool]

you are right paine.....this thread was a pain.......in every way.....in the head and the back side.......you are also right that we are here to support each other during our complex jurney here on earth........that post triggered me bad.....it didnt support or help ...............i can like someone.....(the person).......but not like thier behavior or words.......i can also forgive ones transgressions without accepting the bad behavior.............i have very bad issues surounding abuse......and i found the post to be quite abusive...........as did others here on this forum.......................including you.....you said "its breaking my heart".........it was very upsetting to all........................i love this forum.....it has helped me tremendously..........but its just like everything on earth...............it has a price...................i have to take the risk of veiwing something abusive...........thats it..........................as far as my behavior goes i do expect others to challenge me when it is bad.......................thats the only way we can learn better ways to solve issues.........so this can help us all.....and not hurt us..............because god knows we all have suffered enough........with care and concern.....cherylbcool...................

[orlath]

orlath.....i dont accept your apology........you said what you said...and saying you are sorry does not take it back.........what you do is permanent.........forever........you can get your point across without spewing venom and attacking people............im just curious about something,......................... why are you so concerned and worried about not dis-respecting animals.........and you are not concerned about disrespecting people here...................i trigger very easily.......and thats why i do not go to dark topics very often......but i do go there if i need to vent and spew built up venom..........i am new to this forum and it has helped me tremendously..........i hope you can take the time to learn how to use the forum in a way that is more respectful of the couragous people who need to use this forum to help thier mental illness........like me.....................i am not attacking you.............just letting you know...........how your words can hurt.....................and for me i dont need any more pain.......................................i am also not trying to make you feel shamed.....im sure you already do enough of that to yourself....................i do hope you can learn to use this forum to help and not hurt

I don't mind that you don't accept my apology for I have to agree that to me, apologies actually mean very little and don't change things. Guess I felt I 'ought' to say sorry for politeness sake, but to be honest, I don't take back what I said - not for you or anyone.

Whether or not you accept what I said does not bother me one way or the other.

'Spewing venom' - hmm, that's a rather strong phrase to use in relation to what I said. I think if you read some of the other posts, they could be viewed as being rather more 'venomous' than mine. Still, everything's subjective....

You ask whether I am not concerned about disrespecting people here - well, I believe we all have a right to say what we feel and I was exercising that right. In the same way, others have a right to agree or disagree with what I say and I don't have a problem with that either.

I don't feel in the least bit shamed. You wrote 'I'm sure you already do enough of that to yourself' - actually, you are completely wrong there - I don't spend my time beating myself up about things. But as you know nothing about me other than the posts I have put here, its not really surprising that your comments about me are completely off the mark.

As I said earlier, its just a matter of perspective. And highly subjective perspective at that.

Anyway, perhaps your post made you feel a little better - perhaps it had the opposite effect. Either way, it is not my concern and I do not feel in the least bit responsible for your emotions - I would not expect anyone else to feel responsible for mine.

By the nature of how things go here, I expect there will be a backlash against what I have just written but you might be glad to know this will be my last posting on this topic so I don't plan to engage in any kind of war of words!

[bibiddi]

To be honest,I think this is a fantastic thread.

Probably not for Natty,who started it,but for us BPD'ers,it can be a great learning curve.

It shows how quickly people can misdirect their anger.

Then what it feels like to hear how others are affected by that anger.

Not everyone agrees with everyone else,not everyone likes everyone else.You have a right to disagree,you have a right to not like something.

You wouldnt be true to your self,if you said otherwise.

Its how you say it,how you respect others opinions.

Also,as someone has already pointed out,its possible to not like someones behaviour,but still like that person.

Evading conflict doesnt help anyone.

You can learn a lot from conflict,and how to deal with it.

I hope people learn from it.

[rebeccaborderline]

Hamza,

I thought some of your points were valid, just the tone a big aggressive. Hope you don't feel you have to leave. My personal opinion

rebeccaborderline