What Is The Difference Between

[Miko]

What is the difference between depression and clinical depression?

The piece of paper I was given by a person close to being a charlatan, which I might want to include with the dossier being sent for consideration in connection with my request for retirement, because it says I have Asperger syndrome.

It also however says I am not clinically depressed.

It is dated three years ago which was soon after the very brief consultation.

As far as I am concerned I have been depressed all my life, including the time of the consultation concerned.

I have been advised by my trade union the most likely grounds for retirement if there are judged to be any, will be depression.

Will that piece of paper weaken that?

[zarah]

What is the difference between depression and clinical depression?

in theory they are the same thing

in practise......

sometimes they talk about biological symptoms of depression

eg early morning waking, appetite change, lethargy etc...

sometimes they just use it to talk about their impression of your affect (how you come across) on that day....

I would of thought it was the more up to date stuff that counts....

Z

[Miko]

Thanks Zarah, my employers decided to send that man a job lot so they got a hire car for my colleague and me to both be diagnosed Asperger and we all thought he was going to make useful recommendations but he didn't hence my brandishing words like charlatan around.

He used a crazy questionnaire about mood which isn't Asperger appropriate and I made a good friend in my colleague who was there with me and we drove through some nice country & had a nice chat and then he (the man) had an intriguing old vicarage with fascinating carpets so why the "heck" shouldn't my mood be good.

We Aspergers always find something to interest us and cheer us up, we can still be depressed as H*** at the same time, he knew what he was looking at so why didn't he use appropriate tools. Better, why didn't he confine himself to the question.

Of course there is not only my more recent history of depression but nigh on half a century before that ... not much of which is on record.

Any more experience of the impact that might result from this?

[laura_25]

Hi Miko,

I can understand how you feel. I was told for ages that I coldn't possibly have clinical depression because I didn't respond well to antidepressants. They thought feeling depressed was a symptom of bpd. It meant not being allowed access to general psychiatry for ages. I was recently re assessed and told it is actually a mood disorder. So now I finally get to see a psychiatrist who is trying to find me the right medication.

I think the trade union would look at your present situation more than something dated from three years ago.

x

[pain-dance]

What is the difference between depression and clinical depression?

The piece of paper I was given by a person close to being a charlatan, which I might want to include with the dossier being sent for consideration in connection with my request for retirement, because it says I have Asperger syndrome.

It also however says I am not clinically depressed.

It is dated three years ago which was soon after the very brief consultation.

As far as I am concerned I have been depressed all my life, including the time of the consultation concerned.

I have been advised by my trade union the most likely grounds for retirement if there are judged to be any, will be depression.

Will that piece of paper weaken that?

Many people get mild to moderate depressive episodes at some point in their lives, but are not so incapacitated that they have to give up work or even go onto medication. Sadly, with clinical (or major) depression, the body can slow down, as well as the mind (eg constipation, physical exhaustion, a spaced-out feeling), and thoughts of self-destruction and self-reprisal can become an obsession. The illness is often so devastating that medication has to be a long-term option and the sufferer may not be able to work at all, at the very least.

COLIN.

[becsnoamp]

Hi Miko,

I can understand how you feel. I was told for ages that I coldn't possibly have clinical depression because I didn't respond well to antidepressants. They thought feeling depressed was a symptom of bpd. It meant not being allowed access to general psychiatry for ages. I was recently re assessed and told it is actually a mood disorder. So now I finally get to see a psychiatrist who is trying to find me the right medication.

I think the trade union would look at your present situation more than something dated from three years ago.

x

I was told recurrent depressive episodes are relapsing / remitting. Does your depressions last for months and months, and then gradually improve? But at a time later on, they re-appear? Or, do you feel depressed ALL the time? If relapsing / remitting that can help you get a recurrent depression diagnosis.

[Miko]

Yes there have been bad crashes with absence from work. There were usually several other concurrent conditions of all types occurring then too.

In the last ten years I have had a dozen or so major traumas (not counting the last fortnight's developments) and combined with the effects of traumas from youth that I have never reconciled with, it is tipping me over again and I have had all sorts of other illnesses also.

I don't expect any professional to discern trends at present, because I haven't been for enough of the right referrals. When I've got some energy I'll go for some more.

The present psychiatrist is still grappling with the basics of practising like, how to communicate. The previous ones didn't understand records.

I've been in a non-stop crisis zone for 52 years and no-one noticed but me -

:( :( :(

By the way management and the occupational health doctor on behalf of the the pension fund will decide what they go on not my TU.

Main thing was, I wanted to know whether the word 'clinical' meant anything.

My feeling always was that not only doesn't it mean anything, its inclusion in a phrase like this man doesn't make that phrase valid. He wasn't a doctor though his title was Dr.

For that matter psychiatrists are called Dr but I believe mostly aren't doctors these days? (My first one in 1985-8 was though.)

[pain-dance]

Yes there have been bad crashes with absence from work. There were usually several other concurrent conditions of all types occurring then too.

In the last ten years I have had a dozen or so major traumas (not counting the last fortnight's developments) and combined with the effects of traumas from youth that I have never reconciled with, it is tipping me over again and I have had all sorts of other illnesses also.

I don't expect any professional to discern trends at present, because I haven't been for enough of the right referrals. When I've got some energy I'll go for some more.

The present psychiatrist is still grappling with the basics of practising like, how to communicate. The previous ones didn't understand records.

I've been in a non-stop crisis zone for 52 years and no-one noticed but me -

:( :( :(

By the way management and the occupational health doctor on behalf of the the pension fund will decide what they go on not my TU.

Main thing was, I wanted to know whether the word 'clinical' meant anything.

My feeling always was that not only doesn't it mean anything, its inclusion in a phrase like this man doesn't make that phrase valid. He wasn't a doctor though his title was Dr.

For that matter psychiatrists are called Dr but I believe mostly aren't doctors these days? (My first one in 1985-8 was though.)

With most psychiatrists I've had in the past, I get the impression that they came bottom of the class in medical school, yet still want the prestige and salary of a doctor, but without the talent or hard work that goes with it. If a cardiac surgeon behaved like your average psychiatrist, s/he would be struck off the register for incompetence.

[becsnoamp]

With most psychiatrists I've had in the past, I get the impression that they came bottom of the class in medical school, yet still want the prestige and salary of a doctor, but without the talent or hard work that goes with it. If a cardiac surgeon behaved like your average psychiatrist, s/he would be struck off the register for incompetence.

HAA HAA!! Yes I've heard that too a few times!

[karen078]

I've been told the same thing: depression is just a sympton of BPD and so they won't treat it. In fact they won't treat me with any medication because they say that it would just be treating the symptoms. I'm not normally one to push the use of medication but it seems like because they've decided BPD is the cause they won't give me any treatment at all and I'm just expected to cope with it all.

[rebeccaborderline]

I was told recurrent depressive episodes are relapsing / remitting. Does your depressions last for months and months, and then gradually improve? But at a time later on, they re-appear? Or, do you feel depressed ALL the time? If relapsing / remitting that can help you get a recurrent depression diagnosis.

Yes, this is whats happened to me; I have a diagnosis of severe episodic depression as well as BPD.

I think we all (shrink, GP and me) see the link between my BPD becoming unmanagable and the depression flaring up in me, but this has never been given as a reason not to treat it; Ive had anti-depressants in the past and am sure if it happens again I will be prescribed them again. All this "can't treat BPD coz you're only treating the symptoms" is rubbish in my book-so you can't treat the pain symptoms of a broken leg because the leg will still be broken??!! It just doesnt make sense to me.

Whats helped me is meds to control the worst of the BPD and depression, and long term talking therapy for the underlying causes and long-term improvement/ recovery.

rebeccaborderline

[Effervescence]

To make matters even more confusing, doctors used to say that if your depression lasted for years on end, you had dysthymia--a mild-to-moderate depression which lasts a minimum of two years and was often thought to be non-biological in origin.

It was thought that the more severe "major" depression was episodic in nature, often recurrent, with so-called "normal" spells in between. Years could go by without any signs of depression, supposedly. It was also considered more likely to be biological in origin.

I expect some--maybe most--of this is still true, but I get the impression that doctors are rethinking some of these distinctions.

To me, the most confusing thing is that now there can be a diagnosis of "chronic major depression". In other words, you COULD be depressed for years on end and still have major depression, not the milder dysthymia.

It's all confusing to me anyway!! :wacko:

[Effervescence]

And I have to add: I think it is totally ridiculous to refuse to treat someone with meds.

Meds can definitely help a lot of people--regardless of what "kind" of depression or other problem they have.

It all depends on the person--but to refuse categorically to rx meds is IMHO just plain stupid!!

[Amanda28]

the difference between the depression and clinical depression is length and severity. depression is something that is moderate and is starting to interfere with like, clinical is when they start to put people on meds, or when they should start putting people on meds and dysthymia is a general feeling of sadness, probably the first step, I gradually went from dysthymia to full blown clinical depression in a matter of two months, now i work hard to keep the dysthymia from still in my life, as if i don't i know whats gonna happen

[Silkworm]

Clinical depression is when the common depressive symptoms are sustained (for a period of 2 weeks or longer). Comes in many flavours...from what I've read, atypical depression is common in people with bpd.

Lots more at Wikipedia ~ http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clinical_depression

[eastmeetswest]

What is the difference between depression and clinical depression?

The piece of paper I was given by a person close to being a charlatan, which I might want to include with the dossier being sent for consideration in connection with my request for retirement, because it says I have Asperger syndrome.

It also however says I am not clinically depressed.

It is dated three years ago which was soon after the very brief consultation.

As far as I am concerned I have been depressed all my life, including the time of the consultation concerned.

I have been advised by my trade union the most likely grounds for retirement if there are judged to be any, will be depression.

Will that piece of paper weaken that?

My understanding is that clinical depression is more chronic, pervasive and very long term, in other words, it seems to be depression is the pevailing mood over a longtime, punctuated possibly by small, short periods of relief....whereas "depression" can be short term, situationally induced and has a prognosis of full recovery. My take anyways...

[bish31]

my understanding is exactley as what East states above.. there are many different types of depression, I was once diagnosed with reactive type so I became depressed depending upon what was happening in my life, which ment i could be okay for days in between. Clinical depression is more severe and enduring, sometimes with no obvious triggers or reasons associated with why somebody is feeling depressed constantly.

Hope this helps

[Silkworm]

From Wiki :

According to the DSM-IV-TR criteria for diagnosing a major depressive disorder one of the following two elements must be present for a period of at least two weeks:

* Depressed mood, or

* Anhedonia

It is sufficient to have either of these symptoms in conjunction with five of a list of other symptoms over a two-week period. These include:

* Feelings of overwhelming sadness and/or fear, or the seeming inability to feel emotion (emptiness).

* A decrease in the amount of interest or pleasure in all, or almost all, daily activities.

* Changing appetite and marked weight gain or loss.

* Disturbed sleep patterns, such as insomnia, loss of REM sleep, or excessive sleep (hypersomnia).

* Psychomotor agitation or retardation nearly every day.

* Fatigue, mental or physical, also loss of energy.

* Intense feelings of guilt, nervousness, helplessness, hopelessness, worthlessness, isolation/loneliness and/or anxiety.

* Trouble concentrating, keeping focus or making decisions or a generalized slowing and obtunding of cognition, including memory.

* Recurrent thoughts of death (not just fear of dying), desire to just "lie down and die" or "stop breathing", recurrent suicidal ideation without a specific plan, or a suicide attempt or a specific plan for committing suicide.

* Feeling and/or fear of being abandoned by those close to one.

Melancholic depression is commonly believed to be an endogenous depression ( unknown origin - from within) or more biochemical/genetic in nature. Has different symptoms to something like atypical depression, which has what's called reversed vegetative features (excessive sleeping, eating...opposite to melancholic). There's some debate about certain types of clinical depression

having more validity than others. Which is more than a bit ridiculous. The DSM IV diagnostic criteria are very specific...any depression that is prolonged for a period of longer than 2 weeks, is a clinical depression.

Whoever lives through an extended depression (waves) knows that it feels awful, whichever flavour it comes in.

Having said all that, a blue day isn't clinical depression. A blue week might be heading in that direction if you're susceptible and don't take steps to prevent the slide.

Sw

PS./ I know I'm being obsessive..just know depression

[Miko]

Thank you, the person concerned wasn't in a position to state I didn't have "clinical depression" because two weeks weren't covered, nor were any of the issues listed in the quote. I have had enough of them and did over that period. I shan't show that piece of paper.

This time round it was me that insisted on the referral as well as medication.