Crusade To Close The Henderson

[Ziggy_Encaoua]

I'm going to start a crusade to close the Henderson being as it brainwashes & turns individuals into automatons & has no respect for individual rights

[mrs tree]

Ziggy ..i was in Main House i don't belive i was brainwashed or turned in to an automatons...

have you considered others may want the right to make up there own mind and you could be doing something more productive with your time?

[Ziggy_Encaoua]

Ziggy ..i was in Main House i don't belive i was brainwashed or turned in to an automatons...

No you were brainwashed you just don't realise it

you could be doing something more productive with your time?

Don't patromise me

[mrs tree]

No you were brainwashed you just don't realise it

funny you don't know me yet know i was brainwashed...If i was which i know i wasn't I am much happier for been brainwashed..what about you?

[Barebones]

the things your saying is confrontational at the moment and i think you need to seek help to gain some control over yourself. how do you like that? places like these is not many about and hold alot of hope for people. we wil gain what we want from somthing when we want it and if we dont we leave. people there will leave if they think it doesnt hold any help and prob come back for other help.. but normaly bpd is condition which grows with age depending on indiviual.

you need to learn a few things ziggy and maybe thats to learn about your anger at things.

[drew]

i was wondering why you have these opions

and how you plan to complete your cursade

[morbidsoul]

i was in main house and i am planning to go back, it is a great help for people at the right time in there life to learn to live with BPD, i have no idea how that can ever be a bad thing and the people i saw leave main house were far happier, confident and aware of there triggers, no life was never going to be easy and a picnic after leaving but at least they had a chance, if that is brainwashin g then perhaps you need some of it as well, for how easily you seem to be able to offend people, i know we are all entitled to our opinions but i think yours really stinks.

[Miko]

Ziggy you need to find reliable sources of information about your conditions then unreliable ones will relegate themselves gradually to their natural place. This is not easy but it strikes me it is the only way to go.

To exercise an enquiring mind takes work - years and years of it.

Most organisations get mixed reviews and the more informative these are the better.

Certain advocacy services are available for example not a million miles from where you are typing to help raise concerns.

As for being peeved all the time by everything - why don't you just find something you can do something about and do something about it.

If you are peeving yourself it's your fault.

[Ziggy_Encaoua]

i was wondering why you have these opions

My first objection to the Henderson is their use of democracy & the philosophy of the will of the majority. Just because the majority of people vote for etc doesn’t mean its right but the Henderson’s attitude is that if the majority do vote for etc then it is right. The truth is according to The Henderson’s philosophy on democracy that it would be justified if the majority voted to exclude Jews. What the Henderson is preaching is democracy without any empathise on individual rights, which is better known as mob rule.

To be teaching mob rule truly bemuses me but there again the whole premise of the Henderson is to beat up on the individual. The Henderson is based upon peer therapy which has another term bullying! When a group gangs up upon an individual to conform to its wishes it’s the tyranny of the majority, mob rule, plain & simple bullying! Especially if they aren’t doing anything to harm another person in the group, for instance if an individual wears red head to foot day in day out. Okay it’s a bit odd maybe even a bit off putting but the bottom line is its not harming anybody. Now there could be an individual or even individuals in the group who somehow think that this individual wearing red head to foot day in day out is an issue & starts stirring things up with the group. It could quickly develop that even though the individual who wears red is under attack from the group even though they aren’t doing anything wrong. As I say the Henderson preaches bullying plain & simple.

The Henderson also preaches that the group can treat you like shit but oh yeah you must trust in the group. Teaching dependency is just as wrong as teaching mob rule. Basically the Henderson expects that if an individual has a problem then day or night they must discuss it with the group. Yeah like an individual could do that in real life without finding themselves alienated. The Henderson needs to teaching that which is expected in society self reliance because the fact is you can’t rely upon anybody other then yourself.

Yeah the Henderson needs to be teaching self reliance & that diversity is a good thing but you can forget that ever happening. My biggest objection to The Henderson has a rather arrogant & insular attitude, that whatever is happening in society has no affect upon The Henderson because The Henderson thinks the world revolves around it. Plus the Henderson thinks the sun shines out its arse & therefore will not hear any criticism against it & brainwashes professionals it lobbies into being infatuation of The Henderson. But if that’s not bad enough the Henderson is completely inflexible to the needs of the little man. For instance say you’re disabled & epileptic which would mean using a bath is very much a no. Now most institutions would put in a shower enabling that individual to be independent but not the Henderson. No the Henderson would say that the individual should rely upon others in the group to help them. Oh yeah for a fact I know that is something the Henderson would do they’d use somebody’s disability to make them dependent upon the group a complete insult to anybody disabled.

As well as thinking the world revolves around it & that the sun shines out its arse, it likes to brag of having a high success rate. Well in the single week I attended the Henderson back in ’92 three people walked out before their treatment was due to be complete. Oh then there are the four individuals who did do a full stint at the Henderson. One is still self harming, one the last time I knew had become detached & reclusive, one has since committed suicide. The fourth who sings the praises of the place went to the Henderson because they were technically homeless & were a compulsive lying, pie eating, drug dealing pimp & since they came out of the Henderson they’re still a compulsive lying, pie eating, drug dealing pimp who’s now conned a job out of a mental health charity. But hey that’s okay because they went to the Henderson. Granted that its hard measure success but it seems the Henderson seems to think that success is just somebody attending for a year never mind what occurs after, I’m not sure the rest of society would agree.

[Lily-Bee]

These are all your opinions and you have a right to them. But why go on a crusade against them? As you have seen in this tread others feel they have gained from being there. Who are you to deny them that? Who are you to think you know better what is good for people then they do themselves?

If you think its a bad place, then just dont got there...........but don´t deny others the oppertunity if they feel that for them its right.

Its like saying I disagree with christianity so all churches should be closed and everybody should be denied access to it. Don´t people have a right to decide for themselves?

You spend so much time, getting worked up about these things. Lets say you are completely right about your complaints with the Hendersons place, how does it help you to focus on this so much? How does that make you better, happier?

Wouldnt it be better to focus on dealing with your issue´s at hand? Trying to find coping skills and work on getting better?

Lilly

[Ziggy_Encaoua]

If you think its a bad place, then just dont got there...........but don´t deny others the oppertunity if they feel that for them its right.

That's just it

I constantly get barked that its the only place where I'd get sorted but nobody listens to my objections they just nag & bully me to go. Plus if I need treatment for anything else then I can't get it because all proffessionals just bark Henderson at me

So I'm going to have revenge on all those who support the Henderson

[Lily-Bee]

Thats must be hard if you feel Henderson is not right for you yet its all thats offered to you.

I don´t think getting revenge is going to help anything though........

Lilly

[Ziggy_Encaoua]

Thats must be hard if you feel Henderson is not right for you yet its all thats offered to you.

I don´t think getting revenge is going to help anything though........

Well I've tried everything else to voice my objections & concerns nobody is listening so no choice

[karen078]

Hi Ziggy

I think it is totally fine if you don't feel Henderson hospital would help you, but like Lily says why does that mean noone else should benefit either? You say that you don't think it helps anyone, but I'm interested this is based on just a weeks experience in 1992. Does 1 week really give you a good understanding of the place?

I don't know the Henderson and so can't speak, and like I said you are totally entitled to your opinion. All I wanted to say is that I was referred to Main House (its based on the Henderson model) 4 years ago and visited and didn't like it at all. I too struggled with the fact that everything was done in groups, amoungst other things. And at that time and place I wasn't ready to go there. I had to fight to make the professionals listen, who too said it was the only thing that would work for me. Interestinly I'm now in a totally different place and think I have a much better understanding of some of the reasons behind the way they work, and now believe that it is the place I want to go. It's not that doctors were right back then - I really don't think it was right for me then. But things change. And now it is. All I'm trying to say is that I believe you and hear you that you don't feel it is right for you right now. But please don't fall into the trap of thinking that it isn't right for everybody.

What I did when I didn't want to go before is write a list of the reasons I didn't want to go (and tried to make these personal 0 i.e. it wouldn't suit me becuase... rather than it's a rubbish place because....) and then I came up with a couple of ideas of what I thought would help me at that time. I guess if you want help you need to be seen to be wanting help, rather than rejecting all help. I think it helps to think what is it I actually want from the services and what is it I actually need.

Again I believe you and hear you. But a campaign of anger and hatred won't help anyone - especially you.

[Ziggy_Encaoua]

Is anybody actually going to discuss the actual criticisms I've made such as 'mo rule' & 'dependecy'

[drew]

well i never been there

[karen078]

Is anybody actually going to discuss the actual criticisms I've made such as 'mo rule' & 'dependecy'

Sorry Ziggy thought that is what we were doing? Your criticsms such as 'mob rule' are your experiences. I can't discuss that in the sense of saying yes you are right or no you are wrong, because I wasn't there, I'm not you.

Do I think, wiht no experience of the place, that they use mob rule? No I can't. I can understand some of the reasons why they do what they do - the oppoiste could be whereby nothing was democratic, the staff made all the decisions. A community cannot function with 30 different opionions being acted upon in 30 different ways. There has to be some kind of census. And from the sounds of your experience the staff don't override a majority made decision, because otherwise they would be exerting their control over the community.

Dependency- I think there should be defeinitely a bath with disabled access. In that area you need to be as independent as you can safely be.

However when you talk about dependcy on the community: From my understanding they encourage dependency on the group RATHER than on one other persn. They are aware that often we may feel only able to trust one person and go to them, but then if they leave, or it places too much of a burden on that person, you are stripped of that support. However if your trust and dependcy is place on the group rather than an individual - the group remains, although changing, it is consistnet. The next question must be - well how representative of real life is that - and it isn't. You can't call a group up a group at 3 am because you are havin a difficulty. But it doesn't mean you can't call anyone. The idea is that your friends, family, and others - become your new community - but a dispersed community. Thy are there for you and you can reach out and contact them.

Hope this gives sugggestions, to your questions about dependecy and mob effect

[morbidsoul]

Mob rule, what a load of crap, how many bpd people do u know who would vote to exclude all Jews, it would never happen, perhaps if you could actually do your research then you would find out that the whole idea of this is to re instil responsibility back to the client.

So your basis is coming from were, if some body was wearing red as with your example, they would be asked by the therapists what underlying issues there were.

When I was in Main house there was a person who use to change her hair colour nearly every week, not to much got said but the therapists picked upon this, and it transpired that she hated her image and her self and hence why she always felt she had to change her hair colour to try and like her self, so in turn this brought out a major issue, now how is that wrong? The staff who run such places are pretty much with some exceptions the best in there field, if they were not why would they be able to go round to different mental health teams and run courses?

No the sun does not shine out of the Henderson’s arse nor does it out of any therapeutic community, what it basically teaches which if you had done some firm research and actually discussed this with some professionals, it teaches about boundaries, and yes life does revolve around the therapeutic community it has to for it to work. What it teaches is the boundaries of which many of us have never had, they are so harsh in there and we learn to set such and survive such harsh boundaries that a bpd rant we can learn to recognise before it happens, or for example what might trigger us into a cutting situation before it happens.

You are focusing on all this, were is getting you, are you feeling happier that you no longer have to look in the mirror because you are putting all your effort into this, were is it getting you, you seem an intelligent person yet you are wasting your time and thoughts on something you seem to have done such little research on, if therapeutic communities did not work well then why are they still open? You are trying to appear you know every thing when in fact you seem to know so little that this type of therapy is only a cure if you want it to be, also you only get out what you put in. Please do some research before thinking of a crusade, if you have your issues then perhaps review some of the suggestions that people have put time in to give you and stop throwing them back in there face. If you do not like my opinions then tough, I have taken time to read yours as for the nature of the post it is a very personal attack on a lot of people.

[bibiddi]

The only thing I can say is,at least this thread proves that "our" Ziggy,isnt the same Ziggy who is in the Big Brother House.

Although I quite like the thought of our Ziggy kicking ass in there.

Have you ever been in a boy band? :D

[Ziggy_Encaoua]

you seem an intelligent person yet you are wasting your time and thoughts on something you seem to have done such little research on

I’ve said this before & so let me say it no uncertain terms

DON’T FUCKING PATRONISE ME!!!!!!

I’ve noticed on this thread there have attempts to undermine & belittle the opinions which I have. If I had a title such as professor or doctor, if I had letters after my name then you’d be all in a queue to kiss my arse. Just because I don’t doesn’t mean that my opinion shouldn’t be taken seriously. Yet it never is concerning the Henderson & it just makes me angrier & angrier.

So carry on patronising because all you’re doing is fuelling my fire motherfucker.

When I was in Main house there was a person who use to change her hair colour nearly every week, not to much got said but the therapists picked upon this, and it transpired that she hated her image and her self and hence why she always felt she had to change her hair colour to try and like her self, so in turn this brought out a major issue, now how is that wrong?

Its not the therapist’s hair therefore not their business.

It’s an incursion upon individual rights

It’s an incursion upon property right

An individual’s body is their own property not the property of anybody else therefore neither you nor I & certainly no therapist have any right to tell an individual what they should be doing with their own body. People don’t need therapeutic communities to learn that

What therapeutic communities teaches is the boundaries of which many of us have never had, they are so harsh in there and we learn to set such and survive such harsh boundaries that a bpd rant we can learn to recognise before it happens, or for example what might trigger us into a cutting situation before it happens.

People don’t need therapeutic communities to learn that & anyways that’s just the theory doesn’t mean it necessarily works in practice.

Mob rule, what a load of crap, how many bpd people do u know who would vote to exclude all Jews, it would never happen, perhaps if you could actually do your research then you would find out that the whole idea of this is to re instil responsibility back to the client.

How did I know somebody would pick up that point & take it literally, I know that situation is highly unlikely but the point is as I say people can find themselves under attack for doing nothing wrong. What the Henderson & other therapeutic communities preach is mob rule & justification for mob rule something which is utterly repugnant & it surprises me that I’m the only one who’s jumping up & shouting about this. Especially as what’s happening at the Henderson is reflection of the evil homogenization & conformity in society in that if you don’t wear the right logos & have the right haircut then you must expect to get grief. Oh & if you think differently you’ll get crucified for it rather then get listened to. That’s the Henderson & that’s society the little man getting beaten upon by the tyranny of the majority & its utterly evil & utterly wrong!

[morbidsoul]

well personally i think your reply is a load of shit, i have not patronised you, you have your opions and i have mine, if you are so easily riled then you need to start looking closer to home, also i would not care what letters you had after your name you have your opinions and i have mine, if you do not like that then tough fucking shit.

You started this thread with the intense purpose of getting people worked up and angry, i do not think you expected for people to be as defensive, you wanted attention and your next reply weill prove that, well guess what that is what you have got if you do not like the severity of it then that is your problem not mine. You knew starting this thread would be provactive, now deal with the consequences.

[Ziggy_Encaoua]

survive such harsh boundaries that a bpd rant we can learn to recognise before it happens

Really?

if you do not like that then tough fucking shit.

seems you missed that session about controlling bpd rants

You knew starting this thread would be provactive, now deal with the consequences.

You know what they say there's a bullet for everybody even you

[bibiddi]

Thats must be hard if you feel Henderson is not right for you yet its all thats offered to you.

I don´t think getting revenge is going to help anything though........

Well I've tried everything else to voice my objections & concerns nobody is listening so no choice

Hi Ziggy

I don't know the Henderson and so can't speak, and like I said you are totally entitled to your opinion. All I wanted to say is that I was referred to Main House (its based on the Henderson model) 4 years ago and visited and didn't like it at all. I too struggled with the fact that everything was done in groups, amoungst other things. And at that time and place I wasn't ready to go there. I had to fight to make the professionals listen, who too said it was the only thing that would work for me. Interestinly I'm now in a totally different place and think I have a much better understanding of some of the reasons behind the way they work, and now believe that it is the place I want to go. It's not that doctors were right back then - I really don't think it was right for me then. But things change. And now it is. All I'm trying to say is that I believe you and hear you that you don't feel it is right for you right now. But please don't fall into the trap of thinking that it isn't right for everybody.

What I did when I didn't want to go before is write a list of the reasons I didn't want to go (and tried to make these personal 0 i.e. it wouldn't suit me becuase... rather than it's a rubbish place because....) and then I came up with a couple of ideas of what I thought would help me at that time. I guess if you want help you need to be seen to be wanting help, rather than rejecting all help. I think it helps to think what is it I actually want from the services and what is it I actually need.

Again I believe you and hear you. But a campaign of anger and hatred won't help anyone - especially you.

Ziggy,why dont you try something different.

Can you explain what the situation is with you and the Henderson,what you've done to try to get them to hear you.And ask if anyone on here has any thoughts on what you can do.

I saw that Karen has already told you of her experience,and what she did to be proactive in getting the help she wanted.

Do you think that you could do something similar?

[karen078]

Ziggy - what are you wanting us to say? That we agree with you? You say noone listens to or cares about your opinion. I think I said a number of times in my post: I hear you...you are entitled to your opinions...I believe that this is not something you want. But if you only consider being heard or being taken seriously as being agreed with, then perhaps there lies your issue. People can hear you, believe you, respect your opinion but not agree with you.

The example of the red hair girl - yes it is totally up to the girl to decide her hair colour. But have you considered that a therapist or resident asking her why she chooses that colour may simply be a question rather than an attack? To some extent by entering the community you are saying I am prepared to engage in this community, to ask questions and to be asked questions of. But I wonder if you assume that every question is a criticism or condemnation?

[Ziggy_Encaoua]

Can you explain what the situation is with you and the Henderson,what you've done to try to get them to hear you.And ask if anyone on here has any thoughts on what you can do.

I've already explauined that I can't get any service out my local CMHT other then a refrral to the Henderson

I've written directly to the Henderson on a number of occassions

It doesn't matter what I say I never get listened to