Ziggy_Encaoua Posted November 13, 2007 Report Share Posted November 13, 2007 Though at the time this article is written its early November the shops are full of Xmas products & you can’t watch an hour of television without being saturated with adverts selling attempting to sell you those products. Soon enough Xmas decorations will be going up in the high streets of towns thorough out the land & the conditioned masses get caught up in the so called Xmas spirit. But if you’re an atheist & declare you don’t celebrate Xmas then its likely people will call you scrooge & then snarl at you. They snarl at you for saying Xmas Day has no significance that for any genuine atheist it’s simply just December 25th. People seem register & respect that Jews don’t celebrate. Moslems don’t celebrate nor Hindus or Sikhs. In fact due to political correctness people will go out of their way to respect that there are followers of religious faiths who don’t celebrate Xmas but atheists get snarled at & slammed as scrooges. It doesn’t help that many an atheist sells out & celebrate Xmas.There are even anti-theists who celebrate Xmas & it makes one wonder if the reason happens to do with presents under the Xmas tree addressed to these individuals. I’ve heard atheists attempt to manipulate Xmas saying that these days it’s merely but a secular celebration. Sure corporation & big business have hijacked Christmas to sell crap which by the day after Xmas a good deal of people have become bored with. But even if Christmas has become an excuse for business to sell crap to the masses, Christians are always protesting that we must never forget the meaning of Christmas & maybe atheists should never forget what Christmas really is about.However one might try to deny it Christmas still has & will always have religious, supernatural & spiritual significant, the kind of stuff which atheists & definitely anti-theists are meant to reject. By its very name Christmas is the celebration of the birth of Christ & Christ means pretty much the son of God. Maybe atheists need to be reminded that if one declares themselves an atheist they can’t celebrate the birth of the son of God because atheists don’t believe in God! Of course some atheists say they don’t see Jesus as the messiah or the son of God they see him as a philosopher of some note. Yes a philosopher who preached God existed & that he was the son of that God. I repeat if you declare you’re an atheist it’s then anachronistic to be celebrating somebody who claimed to be the son of God. Plus doing so all because they’re presents under the tree address to you shows how much of wimp you are to the temptations of religious belief.Okay agnostics can wriggle out from the issue of Christmas because they’re wimps by nature. But if you declare you’re an atheist there should be no excuse to wimp out because it doesn’t do the atheistic cause any good at because it gives the impression to the unenlightened masses that atheists are prepared to sell out to religious & supernatural belief & that any atheist who keeps to the principles of atheism is some kook. Even some atheists might accuse the position being expressed in this article as militant & extremist. No its not an extremist or militant position, it’s a position which is expressing that maybe those who declare themselves as atheist should actually live by atheist principles & not sell out giving those of us who are genuine atheists a harder time trying to get respect from the masses because they think we’ll sell out for a dime & if don’t we are kooks & scrooges.Genuine atheists aren’t scrooges or killjoys no atheist is trying to prevent people from celebrating Xmas. It’s more likely those who want prevent folk from celebrating Xmas are more likely to come from factions with in Christianity or from factions of other religious faiths. What atheists such as myself want is not to be snarled at & accused of being a kook or a scrooge & that it would be nice to have some respect for the principles genuine atheists live by. Ziggyhttp://www.thedeviantlibertarian.net/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vorpalblade Posted November 13, 2007 Report Share Posted November 13, 2007 totally with you on that one Ziggy...though the meaning of christmas has kinda changed over the years hasnt it due to commercialism, yes, the roots are still there but it is so hard to find them in modern society. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JustOneMore Posted November 14, 2007 Report Share Posted November 14, 2007 I don't think i am a wimp for being agnostic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ocean Wolf Posted November 14, 2007 Report Share Posted November 14, 2007 I don't think I'm a wimp for celebrating Christmas. All my life it has been a family thing. And I admit that, in the past, I mostly cared about the presents. But there is the anticipation of waiting to see what I get which is what I like most about he presents I realized. And I never take spending Christmas Eve with my family for granted anymore. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vorpalblade Posted November 14, 2007 Report Share Posted November 14, 2007 but where does JEsus come into that Ocean Wolf? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ocean Wolf Posted November 16, 2007 Report Share Posted November 16, 2007 He doesn't. I don't see why that makes me a wimp or make me a blind follower of commercialism. As I said, for me, Christmas is a family thing. Does it really make me something bad to like celebrating with my family? Should I be ashamed of having a wonderful time just because, to you, the holiday is established as "has to be Christian or else it's just commercialism?" Fine. I'll pick another name for it. We celebrate Family Holiday That Takes Place a Few Days After the Winter Solstice. Jesus is invited if he'd like to come and doesn't mind celebrating with someone with buddist tendencies, a satanist, someone against organized religion, some christians, someone who has had bad experiences with christianity, some atheists, and some agnostics. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vorpalblade Posted November 16, 2007 Report Share Posted November 16, 2007 it isnt just "to me" that it was established as a Christian holiday...it's to the whole world! I bet you're one of those people that only goes to church once a year to sing along to the carols too arent you? And your family expect to get married and chritened in a church..very hypocritical. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barebones Posted November 16, 2007 Report Share Posted November 16, 2007 i think this subject stinks, and it belittle people who want to do xmas even though they dont beleive in god or christ for that matter. because i dont beleive in god or christ but i do it for my daughter. so does that make me a wimp? some people need special help. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scarletgal Posted November 16, 2007 Report Share Posted November 16, 2007 I personally thinki f iit makes you happy and doesnt break the law, why not enjoy yourself. There are far too many people here so unhappy,so if they can find a moment or day or 2 of happiness, how can we begrudge them. If it made you happy, maybe your would have a difference of opinion here. Ipersonally do believe in god and Christ, and also believe in Christmas.BUT.. I also get a tremendous amount of joy watching little childern waiting in line for santa, and telling him their wants and wishes, which isnt christian at all. I also give gifts to the less fortunate each year, along with my children, so they can realize it isnt all about the getting, but about the giving too. And no I dont have a ton of money, and I basically have to not get somethng for someone in order to buy gifts for those who need something, but my kids are aware and feel like it is as much a part of christmas as is santa, getting gifts, and going to church...I guess we all have our own perspective, but mine makes me feel alot better about myself, and how I raise my children. I need some kodos for me, so I take them where I get them... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vorpalblade Posted November 16, 2007 Report Share Posted November 16, 2007 the point is that CHRISTmas is a Christian celebration, so why celebrate it if you are not a CHRISTian? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lucy Posted November 16, 2007 Report Share Posted November 16, 2007 Why are you getting so annoyed by it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
viperphilip Posted November 16, 2007 Report Share Posted November 16, 2007 i celebrate Christmas and i am proud to do so I have 3 children and Christmas time can be really good ..seeing all that happiness keeps me going:)so what if i buy lots of stuff..to me its worth it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scarletgal Posted November 16, 2007 Report Share Posted November 16, 2007 The point is its a personal decision for people to do what they choose, to celebrate however they are lead, whether it be religion or the almighty dollar( here is US). You live as you choose and let others live as they choose... at least that seems like the most logical explaination available in my blond head. the point is that CHRISTmas is a Christian celebration, so why celebrate it if you are not a CHRISTian? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bibiddi Posted November 16, 2007 Report Share Posted November 16, 2007 I am against all things religious.However I feel that christmas has as much to do with religion as you want to make it.I have friends from various different religions, and we all send each other cards, adn wish each other well.I like the "goodwill to all men" ethos. I like the christmas songs playing constantly in shops, I like the twinkling lights.I like christmas trees,I also like the last minute panic shopping.That feeling only occurs once a year, so I'm joining in. I have nothing to do with religion. I say that the agnostics and athiests should claim christmas day as our own!Wasnt christmas day originally a pagan event? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vorpalblade Posted November 16, 2007 Report Share Posted November 16, 2007 I'm not annoyed in teh slightest Lucy :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ocean Wolf Posted November 16, 2007 Report Share Posted November 16, 2007 it isnt just "to me" that it was established as a Christian holiday...it's to the whole world! I bet you're one of those people that only goes to church once a year to sing along to the carols too arent you? And your family expect to get married and chritened in a church..very hypocritical.Well, thank you for judging me without having the slightest idea who I am. In fact, I can't remember ever going to church. No one in my immeadiate family is christian and we don't go to church even once a year. Hypocritical? Why? BEcause you say so? Because you decided I'm a different person than who I am?The whole world? Doesn't unicef and other companies like that send christmas gifts to kids in poorer countries with the message of peace on earth and to bring them some happiness? Most likely, a lot of those kids aren't christian. So to those kids, it wouldn't be established as a purely christian holiday. Even if you don't hold that into account, yes it WAS established as a christian holiday after the christians decided that was how they were going to celebrate the winter solstice, a pagan holiday. Now? Well, define the whole world. It seems to me like most of the people who responded to this no longer consider it purely christian. I'd say it's especially not christian because people who have been studying Christ have found out that the man they think is Christ was not born on december 25th.Why celebrate christmas if I'm not a christian? Because it's fun. Do you have a problem with other people having fun? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vorpalblade Posted November 16, 2007 Report Share Posted November 16, 2007 it wasnt established because of pagan solstice, it was made christmas day because that is when Christ was born! gawd.. the fact that years later they believe he wasnt born on that actual day has no bearing on it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ocean Wolf Posted November 16, 2007 Report Share Posted November 16, 2007 Well, then. I'm establishing a holiday for people who like to celebrate Christmas a family holiday and have fun without getting accused of being a wimp or a hypocrite for celebrating it without being christian. The fact that it is at exactly the same time as Christmas has no meaning. The fact that we celebrate it the same way we have when we called it Christmas has no meaning other than what it means to us now. It shall be called whatever we want to call it. And if we continue to call it Christmas, it is purely out of habit. Is that better?It can also be celebrated by people of whatever beliefs feel right to them as long as they don't push their beliefs on other people.How do you know what has bearing and what doesn't? Who gave you the right to decide that? How do you know what was going through the heads of whoever decided Christmas was the day Christ was born? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ziggy_Encaoua Posted November 17, 2007 Author Report Share Posted November 17, 2007 Why are you getting so annoyed by it?Because an atheist who celebrates Xmas is like somebody declaring themselves a vegetarian whilst eating a chicken burger. Its called hypocrisy & it gives ammunition to Christian fundamentalists. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
samsung Posted November 17, 2007 Report Share Posted November 17, 2007 i think someone who denied south africa for years and now waves a flag of the country after winning the world cup rugby is a wimp. ;) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
morbidsoul Posted November 17, 2007 Report Share Posted November 17, 2007 so out of curiousty then can i ask you both ziggy and vorblade, will neither of you over that period be visiting family, not eating turkey on the 25th of december. and will you not be buying presents for your daughter blade? only curious not trying to be provactive. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ocean Wolf Posted November 17, 2007 Report Share Posted November 17, 2007 Why are you getting so annoyed by it?Because an atheist who celebrates Xmas is like somebody declaring themselves a vegetarian whilst eating a chicken burger. Its called hypocrisy & it gives ammunition to Christian fundamentalists.Ok then... Here's some questions: Why do you care? How many christian fundamentalists are there running around and how many of them care? And why should anyone change what they enjoy doing that isn't hurting anyone (far from it) just because someone else tells them they shouldn't?I'm a satanist who celebrates christmas (for family not christianity) and I have never heard a christian use that against me. But then, I've never met a christian fundamentalist. I've had more experience with christians who I can talk to about religion and who joke around with me about our religions.I don't know... it seems to me that not doing what I enjoy just because some people I've never met and who I don't give a darn about might say something is a heck of a lot more hypocritical. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vorpalblade Posted November 17, 2007 Report Share Posted November 17, 2007 what does "provactive" mean? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lucy Posted November 17, 2007 Report Share Posted November 17, 2007 provocative Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vorpalblade Posted November 17, 2007 Report Share Posted November 17, 2007 oh, right.well i refuse to answer anything or get into a conversation with morbidsoul so i won't be answering those questions Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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