Women With Bordeline Personality Disorder

[Sheza]

Seriously I see this in DBT all the time. I see this in so many women in general. We have all had shit lives. But I am not the one who abused you. I am not your violent alcoholic father. I am not your abusive ex. But with this constant attitude I do frequently end up hating myself. Now nobody needs to write complete chronological essays about our faulty childhoods and so forth (things don't just happen to females, they can happen to boys and men too - I'm not going to talk about it, just put 2 and 2 together).

One woman with BPD certainly hates men. But every time I see her she has her arms around someone deep kissing him (and shagging him later that evening). The next day she's telling me how much she hates him, can't stand him and hates herself now. Unconsiously sex has become a destructive thing for her (I'm sure many here will identify with this - this is after all a BPD forum). Maybe I look too "boyish" for my age (not a good thing - women want men) or maybe - Just maybe if men are all evil rapists hell bent on making woman's lives a misery then I do not wish to be one. She has confused sex with hatred. She probably likes me too much to want to have sex with me. She inevitably will hate EVERY man she sleeps with the next day.

In DBT I met one woman who didn't want to sit anywhere near me and another who would not enter the room unless I sat away from the door (which as a consequence was as far away from the other girl as I could get). Both had been abused as children. I understand. I really understand.

Basically I think that many women need to let go of "victimisation". By identifying "Women = Victims" and "Men = Abusers" you set yourself a dangerous precedent of admiting "defeat" in advance. You automatically accept your role as "victim". This breeds fear and suspicion. I do not wish to be feared and despised. I wish to be liked, loved, approached - treated like an equal and not some like some "predator" or some "big bad wolf". Instead of encouraging collective weakness (the "us and them" mentality and the culture of victimisation) maybe many women should be encouraging individual strengh. And believe me many men could learn from this too. Including myself.

[drew]

i dont hate men one of my best friends i s a man i only have aout 5 friends so thats about 20 % of my friends lol, i think perhaps i am very warriey of men because they have hurt me in the past. yes there will be men that i hate but there is also women that i hate too

[Kay]

Hmm....I know I have a lot of stuffed anger towards men. I think partly because when I wanted to just be loved, I just got "shagged" instead. That started early on and just went down hill.

Maybe by your actions of kindness and support in your dbt you will be able to show those women that men can be different. Maybe you can be that person that will make a light go on for them.

[Dreamer]

I don't hate men, but I had a good father, and wasn't sexually abused. If I were, I'd bet I'd feel differently.

[bibiddi]

Seriously I see this in DBT all the time. I see this in so many women in general. We have all had shit lives. But I am not the one who abused you. I am not your violent alcoholic father. I am not your abusive ex. But with this constant attitude I do frequently end up hating myself. Now nobody needs to write complete chronological essays about our faulty childhoods and so forth (things don't just happen to females, they can happen to boys and men too - I'm not going to talk about it, just put 2 and 2 together).

One woman with BPD certainly hates men. But every time I see her she has her arms around someone deep kissing him (and shagging him later that evening). The next day she's telling me how much she hates him, can't stand him and hates herself now. Unconsiously sex has become a destructive thing for her (I'm sure many here will identify with this - this is after all a BPD forum). Maybe I look too "boyish" for my age (not a good thing - women want men) or maybe - Just maybe if men are all evil rapists hell bent on making woman's lives a misery then I do not wish to be one. She has confused sex with hatred. She probably likes me too much to want to have sex with me. She inevitably will hate EVERY man she sleeps with the next day.

In DBT I met one woman who didn't want to sit anywhere near me and another who would not enter the room unless I sat away from the door (which as a consequence was as far away from the other girl as I could get). Both had been abused as children. I understand. I really understand.

Basically I think that many women need to let go of "victimisation". By identifying "Women = Victims" and "Men = Abusers" you set yourself a dangerous precedent of admiting "defeat" in advance. You automatically accept your role as "victim". This breeds fear and suspicion. I do not wish to be feared and despised. I wish to be liked, loved, approached - treated like an equal and not some like some "predator" or some "big bad wolf". Instead of encouraging collective weakness (the "us and them" mentality and the culture of victimisation) maybe many women should be encouraging individual strengh. And believe me many men could learn from this too. Including myself.

I cant speak for the people you have talked about, but in therapy, your past is very much there in the room. So yeah, I can understand not wanting to sit next to you.

Maybe rather than looking at what women should or shouldnt be doing, perhaps taking ownership of your own feelings and responses maybe more achievable.

[InnerPeace]

Whoa...those sweeping generalisations have just knocked me off my feet!

Sheza, this appears to be your opinion based on the women you've met in your DBT group...please, this is not a representative group of ALL female BPD suffers.

It does not make me feel comfortable to be told what is wrong with female BPD sufferers and what they should do to remedy it.

You mentioned "seeing this in many women in general", could this assumption be coloured by your own relationship situation?

[Sheza]

Whoa...those sweeping generalisations have just knocked me off my feet!

Sheza, this appears to be your opinion based on the women you've met in your DBT group...please, this is not a representative group of ALL female BPD suffers.

It does not make me feel comfortable to be told what is wrong with female BPD sufferers and what they should do to remedy it.

You mentioned "seeing this in many women in general", could this assumption be coloured by your own relationship situation?

No, I'm telling you seriously. Sorry if I've just come across with "horrible, hurtful, ignorent, biased, sweeping generalisations" or whatever it is I come across as. No - I'm not saying that ALL women are like this. I did not say that ALL women are like this.

I am saying that quite a few are and that it appears quite a marked trait in women who suffer from BPD. Could this by coloured by my own "relationship situation"? Possibly. I don't deny the possibility. But I don't think it has been caused by it. Possibly influenced. Remember what I said? Even men too can learn from avoiding the feelings of victimisation.

[dpb]

If I were you, I could very possibly be in that situation soon, I would make a point around sitting as far away from that woman as physically possible without being prompted to do so. You should be repulsed by her and her antics, not wondering why she cant stand you. :angry:

[hoodbran1]

according to my last review, i hate women (and im a man) - huh??!!

[kat_uk]

i hate neither men nor women but i have more male friends then female. i believe that this could be linked to my past.

i was abused by many different males in my past and the way i learnt to cope with it was to put myself in my abusers shoes to understand why they did bad things to me.

i no longer see men as a threat, i have realised that my vunerabilty led me to meet some bad individuals in my past. but by learning what made these certain individuals tick, has led me to dissolve my fears and gain confidence

i have learnt to listen to my gut instincts about whether an individual (male or female) could be a potential abuser. and on a more positive side i have also begun to make some great friends of both sexes.

[Life is sweet]

I don't hate men, and the old quote of "hate is such a strong word" I kind of agree with here. To hate is just so powerful and so negative. You can disagree with someone, dislike their company, not 'click' well with them, or any other number of terms. But, to hate means you seriously dislike the person, despise them even, which I really try not to do. If I were to dispise someone so much you would have to wonder, what is it in myself or in that person that I find I 'hate' so much??

I feel a lot of hurt, and frustration and pain right now over my relationship both as a child and now as an adult with my father. But, I do not hate him. One day, in fact I really want to grow to have RESPECT for the man who treated and does treat me so harshly.

M.

[dolita]

i think most people are prejudiced in some ways, everyone discriminates either for or against people based on gender, race, nationality, age...but i also think that your post suggests you do too! i know you said you're not saying that ALL women are like that - but that is how your first post reads.

i do know what you mean about women playing the victim card, but i don't think women do it any more than men. just in different ways. i think psychiatry has a lot to answer for in cases like this because it generalises too much. people read or talk about stuff, like "you've always been abused by men and it makes you feel negative about them" and then that puts an idea in their head.

i've been abused by men, but i really don't hate them. in fact, i feel a lot more comfortable with men than with women. it would never really enter my head to be more wary of a man than of a woman, cos i think both genders can be equally horrendous.

[pain-dance]

Seriously I see this in DBT all the time. I see this in so many women in general. We have all had shit lives. But I am not the one who abused you. I am not your violent alcoholic father. I am not your abusive ex. But with this constant attitude I do frequently end up hating myself. Now nobody needs to write complete chronological essays about our faulty childhoods and so forth (things don't just happen to females, they can happen to boys and men too - I'm not going to talk about it, just put 2 and 2 together).

One woman with BPD certainly hates men. But every time I see her she has her arms around someone deep kissing him (and shagging him later that evening). The next day she's telling me how much she hates him, can't stand him and hates herself now. Unconsiously sex has become a destructive thing for her (I'm sure many here will identify with this - this is after all a BPD forum). Maybe I look too "boyish" for my age (not a good thing - women want men) or maybe - Just maybe if men are all evil rapists hell bent on making woman's lives a misery then I do not wish to be one. She has confused sex with hatred. She probably likes me too much to want to have sex with me. She inevitably will hate EVERY man she sleeps with the next day.

In DBT I met one woman who didn't want to sit anywhere near me and another who would not enter the room unless I sat away from the door (which as a consequence was as far away from the other girl as I could get). Both had been abused as children. I understand. I really understand.

Basically I think that many women need to let go of "victimisation". By identifying "Women = Victims" and "Men = Abusers" you set yourself a dangerous precedent of admiting "defeat" in advance. You automatically accept your role as "victim". This breeds fear and suspicion. I do not wish to be feared and despised. I wish to be liked, loved, approached - treated like an equal and not some like some "predator" or some "big bad wolf". Instead of encouraging collective weakness (the "us and them" mentality and the culture of victimisation) maybe many women should be encouraging individual strengh. And believe me many men could learn from this too. Including myself.

You're talking about a couple of women out of millions of worldwide, so don't be too harsh on women in general. I tried (and walked out of) group therapy and the women I met, whilst fairly volatile at times, were not at all twisted against men; if fact I still miss some of them.

Just bare in mind that you're not responsible for their problems, so do not put yourself in a position where you have to justify your own existence (or sit where they tell you), or you'll be making yourself more vulnerable than you already are. Just ask them directly why they hate you so much, then tell them that you've got your own problems to deal with and that you're not going to rise to their bait. If you feel that the situation is seriously compromising your own recovery, complain to the therapist in charge of the group: like I say, it's their problem, not yours.

[sundries]

yeah i have to say this is something that irritates me too. - and not just women, you get men too who 'hate all women'. i find people like this really tiresome and melodramatic and I think they should just get over themselves. i especially like to avoid that minority of divorceess who spend the rest of thier lives slating men/women as though thier failure to make good choices in their love relationships doesnt exist - its not their poor choice and inability to learn from mistakes, its just that all men are 'awful' - oh purleeeease give me a break.

[Kay]

I think a lot is a natural instinct. If, as a child, you are bitten or attacked by a dog, you are going to have an instinctual fear of dogs. Yes, there are still nice doggies in the world, but because of previous trauma, all dogs are now bad as a form of self preservation. Does that make sense?

[dpb]

That is the mechanism, but we are not animals. We can choose to say 'I will most probably see this guy again in group therapy, so it would be very self centred of me to ask him to sit away from me. I may have male issues but I can work on them, and this is the place to do it. The last thing I want to do is make another person feel a leper while they are feeling vulnerable in a place they have come for help'.

Makes me very cross, maybe that woman didn't have any insight about her or maybe it is SUCH a horrible experience that she's in danger of blacking out. How on earth would she go about living any kind of life, I mean almost 50% of the population is male

If that happened to me I would be deeply hurt and unable to gain anything from that session, is that really fair? NO.

[ManBoyMan]

it's easier to hate half the whole of a whole species than identify the abuser. The abused wails lament and then runs for more abuse because wailing is percieved reality. Been there. done that and the T shirt is mere threads.

[Nightvision]

Shezza...

Could this be rejection sensitivity happening for you? I can hear hurt feelings coming out.

Volatile relationships with the opposite sex are part of the core symptoms of BPD. Please try and see these women as maybe exhibiting the problem they are going to DBT to try to sort out!

We women are strange creatures, so often our emotions get the better of us. I think you've just seen some bad examples.

best wishes

NV

[ManBoyMan]

I sat in group therapy and listened to the wailing lament and hysterics and had to be there by court order to appease the sufferings of a woman projecting her shite from her childhood with her dad and 4 brothers, the only male in this group therapy, to see my kids. No matter how many hoops I jumped she wanted more, watching me do my little tricks for her.

I'm back in another situation. My behaviour is outrageous apparently. There's of course no questioning hers, no she'll just run away and hide behind her daddy clutching her baby. And of course it's not relapse of heroin addiction or post natal depression at all, no she's mother fucking mary of course now she has a sprog on her tit....

I don't have BPD.

My mother used to go elsewhere mentally when my step dad beat the shit out of me and she never protected me. Her disocciation stemmed from her mother and father fighting. So who abuse me, step dad or mother?

But my dad was a bastard too, but it was his mother that abused him so there we go.

this talk of it being the mans fault and the woman are oppressed just isn't right, it's just hysterics and wailing for the sake of excercising the lungs and not getting over him.

I've been around women who group together in feminine witchy pagan noodle brained man fests, feel oppressed and all they do is put the man down all the time. Get him down and take his sperm like wailing witches. Half of them look like fuglys anyway, have hairy chins and should have been born with gonads.

If you open 10 cans of spaghetti and pour them onto a plate with only one can of beans theres bound to be more spaghetti, but there's plenty of beans out there TOLD to be MEN by their mothers and wives, the women never show them any love and the men lament on their own and don't come for therapy and just get on with it without wailing lament and persecution to the world.

OK, some don't lament on their own, some drink 8 pints of wife beater and swing when they get home. Well if you get slapped once it's their fault, if you stay and turn the other cheek it's your fault. stay and be abused is abusing yourself.

I for one have never walked up to woman n the cold light of day and beaten her. I have been attacked by hysterical women though many times and had to defend myself.

Equality? so a woman can beat a man but if he lashes back its wife beating? get over yourselves.

OK, so most wars are facilitated by men, perhaps to protect their women and children so much so they are willing to die for it, men and woman are different and together they dance stepping on each others toes. It's just a dance. So get off the subsitute bench and get into the contact sport.

I simply can't stand this man hater view, it's ridiculous. A friend of mine of 20 years is an alchoholic, lives on his own in pyschiatric care on medication cause in his childhood, his father was on tranquilisers married to a woman with iron balls, she broke his dads and then broke his.

Men AND women abuse each other, it's the way of the world, men go off and lick their wounds and find another mate, woman wail lament and cut themselves even more.

Men and women are EQUALLY different and thats all there is to it.

If theres more women with BDP I'll eat my hat, more women cant cope with it and need help, lots of men wont admit it and cause more suffering but the view that its the mans fault is pathetically hysterics and merely reflects innacurate data, self certifification of abuse and INCOMPLETE statistics.

I'm a Buddhist into Pyschodnamics, and even I can't give the full answer of true enlightenment and never will be able to, no matter how many books I read or qualifications I get it's all just an idea, a supported view... and until we have the truth I wont support it, no I wont support it.

etc etc yara yara blah blah men are all bastards blah blah blah

[bibiddi]

wow.

Looks like the subject brings up a lot of feelings, and put some in touch with their own issues.

Which is good, as it helps you work on your own stuff.

[ManBoyMan]

lol.... yeah....

I understand that if women sit around together clucking in the hen house dissing the man, then the man is bad and gets hen pecked.... but how many women will actually listen to the mans view? Not many cause most run away and wont listen, scream abuse.... a mans view is not a threat - it's acceptance of the challenge. I'm willing to stand and talk calmly and rationally with any woman, experiecne suggets they run away and wail their lament though. So what am I to do?

I'm very honest and find if I'm honest about my experiences and show feelings with a woman they will use it to beat me with later, until I wail my lament at such wickedness, then the'll crush your balls and dance in red stiletoes on your grave pissing on anything that tries to flower on it.

But I certainly don't BLAME women, I simply see them as different. Women blaming men leads to a lot of shit. LOOK at family court, mostly women lamenting over men and men trying to be normal fathers.

Relationships need work and its up to men AND women to talk calmly about it and understand each other instead of intolerant views and internalising ones lament and projecting it onto one half of the species HOMO SAPIEN.

Go to a country where people actually strugle to survive every day for the basics in life, I bet you women havent got time for therapy never mind man hating. Too busy trying to keep their kids alive and hoping there brave husband comes back with some food or wood for the fire.

[ManBoyMan]

Sorry if I offended anyone in posts 19 & 21. I'm a right royal prick sometimes and not the most subtle of folk.

Women have been oppressed for a long time, but lets remember that to facilitate change men need a chance to stop being the opressor.

Womens liberty comes with a new social challenge, women wont simply be vehicles for the child to grow in any more, men wont be the earners any more - society, the whole future of our species depends on men and women agreeing their new roles and working TOGETHER for each others goals.

This takes understanding.

Any anger at the other sex just puts up more barriers.

[bibiddi]

What has changed in you between the posts on the 8th and yesterdays post?

[InterruptedHappiness]

Wow, heavy topic. I would not percieve myself as a man hater but I dislike all the men who have abused me I guess I am just unlucky that the majority of men I have met have been abusive. I would lie if I said there isn't a time where I was shallow minded and I did "hate all men" because I didn't know any better but from positive experiences that is not what I believe anymore. Do not shoot the messenger I am just telling you that the past "me" was a one minded person and this is how she felt.

[pain-dance]

If, for example, I had been beaten and abused by a black person and went around hating all black people because of this, I would be seen and detested as a racist, and quite rightly so. It's exactly the same principle with these women who "hate all men:" they're simply using their past experience as some sort of road-block because they're comfortable it, no matter how much they damage other people.

To you men-haters: either grow up or shut up! I've got my own life to rebuild.