New Relationship With Bpd Girl

[disciple3d]

Hi All,

I'm a new poster here, but I really hope someone can help me as I've really been struggling to get to grips with a relationship I've been in with a girl with BPD for a couple of months.

Towards the start of the relationship she told me that she had been diagnosed, although I wasn't really aware of much about the condition to start off with.To be honest the relationship has gone extremely quickly, and I very quickly fell in love with her wonderful personality and charm.She's incredibly intelligent and talented, and on most days wonderful to be with.

The trouble is the bad days. This weekend we went for a trip to Prague which was wonderful. We had a great time and she told me she loved me so much, the day we got back (last night). I was so happy and felt like things were going really well.

But today was different.She has been cold and distant. She didn't want to see me and ignored me mostly when she was around me. I thought things would be ok, but as the day went on she became less and less interested in me, to the point that she began to be rude to me, and then started trying to hurt me.

She is stuggling with an eating disorder and I've been trying to help her through this.She told me she had binged at work and thrown up afterwards, and I expressed disappointment because she'd nearly stopped doing this over the weekend, and seemed pretty well.

We got into a conversation about me being worried about the relationship which cumulated in her telling me I wasn't manly enough, real men don't cry, that was why women don't respect me etc. I was hurt, and as a sensitive sort of person I told her I didn't deserve to be treated this way, and she said 'no, you deserve someone much better.' She then told me she'd bring by my stuff over tomorrow night.

After some emotive words (which didn't work) and then some harsh words (which did) I got her to agree to let me talk it over with her in person tomorrow since we were only speaking on MSN at the time.

She didn't pick up the phone when I called her, so she is only serious enough to tell me about it on instant messenger.

This is driving me insane, because one minute I feel our relationship is going really well, and the next it appears to be falling apart. When she's like this, usually being assertive is the only thing which will help, but I'm not that sort of person and find it difficult to get angry (I tend to get upset first).

I know this isn't much to go on, but I wondered if anyone had any advice on how to deal with this constant love/hate cycle?I can't believe she wants to break up now after the weekend we've had, but I feel taken aback that she seems to be using it to hurt my feelings and manipulate me.

She wants reassurance, (sometimes she makes me tell her 5 or 6 times that I'm not going to leave her) but other times she mocks my reassurance and accuses it of reflecting on my character.

I do have some self-esteem issues, as I have suffered from depression before, however I have dealt very well with these over the last few years and am successful in my career and doing well for myself.

Unfortunately some of these seem to be resurfacing, as I don't feel from one day to the next whether she'll like or dislike me.

I hope someone can help.

Thanks.

[drew]

hey verey one with bpd is differnt

but after reading this ( i too have bpd) my thoughts are 1 dont tell her u wont leave her ,, as u might

2 dont let her hurt u pyschically thats not right as a bpd sufferer u still have to take responsibilty even though it can be difficult i dont think u would be helping by letting her

3 yes she was high with emotions all weekend not surprised that getting home she feeling low i have that feeling alot

4 treat her as a gf not a gf with bpd

running to her every whim wont help you or her

5 let her know u have feelings to and dont be scared to say no mean what u say

perhaps build some stuff into your life so when she like this u aint set at home alone

good luck u seem to care took the time to be there for her

[Warrior Princess]

Drew gave really good advice here. I agree, being BPD does give you an excuse to treat people badly.

Voiceing how this makes you feel is an excellent suggestion.

I'd like to add, don't keep pushing to "fix" this. It might be better to let her come to you. This might mean risking losing her but if you keep pushing to talk it over, be with her, repair, it is just giving her a lot of negative attention. Better to concentrate on giving positive attention during the positive moments. that doesnt' mean you don't care, just means your not willing to feed her negative emotions during her down times. What I mean is, support her when she comes to you but don't chase her. This way you are encouraging the positive and not the negative. Chasing and pushing will only make the situation worse.

Also wanted to say that just because you cry does not make you any less of a man. To me a man who is man enough to show is emotion like that is more of a man than one who is afraid to show it. It shows courage and character. You have a huge heart.

Paine.

[Nina of the Light]

Hello.

I most definately understand. This is only my opinion, based on what my experience. You had such a great weekend....she doesn't feel like she deserves the happiness so she's "acting out" the anxiety inside of her. I've done the same thing. Ask my BF how many great times that I've wrecked. If you love her and support her, then don't give up. Also like Drew said, the ups and downs of the disorder can be quite dramatic. An intense 'high' of happiness can lead to a very drastic low.

I recommend purchasing a book about BPD. They give great tips on how to deal with a family member or partner that has BPD. Stay calm, don't take it so personally (easier said than done.) and let her know that you love her but refuse to let her treat you in this manner. Tell her you'll never leave her and when she's ready to have a normal conversation that you'll be there. You have to set boundries, but it's quite the balance act getting it to work without making her feel worse. (which is why a book would be essential).

I know I pushed and pushed and pushed my BF. Told him I hated him that I wanted nothing to do with him. Told him I didn't love him anymore...etc. He walked away, gave me space, let me know everyday that he wasn't giving up on me and that he loved me. Obviously...the episode(s) passed. (there were definately more than one!!!) And I began to trust his devotion. When I did, the time between episodes became longer and longer and now I hardly ever have one.

I often felt undeserving of his love and the good times we had...which caused a meltdown. And if you had asked me at the time I would've said I didn't know why I acted the way I did. My insight into WHY came in hindsight.

I hope this helps to give you a very small peek into the wild world of the borderline.

Best Wishes,

amanda.

[disciple3d]

Hi Paine,

Thank you so much for your kind words. They came at a really important time I can tell you. I agree with Kurt too, and I'll try to follow those suggestions.

Today things are difficult again. She has been ignoring my text messages and said she left her phone in the car, but she answered when I called to check she was ok. Online she just told me that she's been sick again (she has a problem with bulimia) and that she lied to me last night when I asked her if she'd been sick. I told her lying to me wasn't acceptable, but I did know she was lying yesterday because she had bloodshot eyes. She also said she was a bad person, and I told her that she wasn't, but being ill doesn't give her an excuse to treat me badly.

I feel unable to cope with the bulimia on top of the other problems. She has promised she would stop and to give her a week to try. It's been a week and she is now even more open about it, and did it while I was in the next room yesterday. I went ballistic on her and she stopped being cold Amber for awhile.

Her alter ego, she calls Amber because Amber is a different person who is emotionless and cold towards people. I haven't seen that side of her today, but she is quiet and reserved and seems like she wants help, but is scared to ask for it.

I spoke to my friend who suggested that I seek out professional help for her because at the moment she is receiving no therapy or medication for her BPD or bulimia.

She hates doctors because a couple of years ago, a doctor missed the symptoms of siphillis and she ended up having a miscarriage, and a low likelihood of being able to conceive a child in the future. When she talks about this she says it matter of factly, but I can see there is some serious pain she is hiding underneath. She claims she felt little for the child she lost, although it devastated it's potential father.

I can't tell what is real and what is made up sometimes, because she seems so good at hiding the things that really hurt her. There are walls and walls to get through, and sometimes when I think she's opening up to me it feels ok, only for the doors to slam shut the next day.

I really care about her and want to help her, to the point where I am thinking of changing my job so I don't have to spend two days a week away from her, and can have more flexible hours. I would be giving up financial security and a really good job to do this, but since seeing her I can't concentrate on work properly and it seems so unimportant.

I have been thinking about threatening to leave her if she doesn't seek help, but I am scared this will make things worse, and I don't want to break up with her yet. Maybe in awhile I will want that.

I told her cheating is unacceptable but she is in regular contact with her ex who is trying to get her back. She tells me she still loves him, but they can never get back together because her family hates him and disowned her last time. They hate him for good reason as he treated her really badly - hit her, and on one occassion pushed her down the stairs.

I want to tell him to get lost but she has asked me kindly not to. I am extremely tempted to tell him to get the hell away from her, because he seems to be making my relationship with her even more difficult by stirring up old feelings. I've become extremely mistrustful because now I know she can lie directly to me, I don't know if she's telling the truth to me at all sometimes. She claims she's not cheating on me, but is constantly texting exs and bringing them up in conversation. I find this also very difficult to deal with and have told her, but she continues to do it.

I can get through to her when I am open, calm and honest sometimes, and other times it takes shouting. What I find most difficult though is how she can be so inconsiderate of my feelings without even realising it. I have tried to harden myself a little, but this is very hard to me and goes against my personality.

Last but not least, what was turning out to be a good sex life has waned alot, and her insatiable sex drive has turned to nothing. This makes me feel unattractive, and although I am fit and work out regularly, she seems to have next to no interest in me a lot of the time. This is something I can cope with, but feels strange to me, and I think it is related to her bulimia.

I worry constantly about myself and my abilities at the moment, and it would seem to an outsider that I should leave her and be done with it, but I love her very much and I want to help her. I can't leave her to be like this alone, whether we were going out or not. I am just feeling really low right now, and haven't got a lot of hope about things. I'm sorry if this post is really depressing! Thank you for your help so far, I hope one day I'll be able to share some experience to help other people on here too.

Chris

(Nottingham, UK)

[Warrior Princess]

Chris I think it's really important that you don't let her control you. Hardening yourself to suit her needs and changing your job etc is also really not acceptable. Relationships are a two way thing and although there are times that one should be flexible and willing to change, certainly it shouldn't be because of the bad behavior of the other person. That would be like "well he hits me so I should just numb myself to the pain." Not on. These things are obviously hurting you so changing yourself isn't the answer. She needs to be willing to change. What I'm saying is don't fall into the trap of becomnig co dependant on her, walking on eggshells around her just to try to control her outbursts. Actually I think there is a book out there on BPD called 'stop walking on eggshells". Never read it. Even though I have BPD I don't expect people to walk on eggshells around me, but I tend to do it myself now that I think about it. it's very hard not to do it because the emotional outbursts are so hard on you that you do anything to aviod them. Unfortunately that does not help change the situation, it just has a bandaide effect.

She has to learn to be resonsible for her own problems. You can't be there all the time any more than my husband can be there for me all the time. Trust me, she is very able to deal with many things with out you so I'd suggest keep the job and just focus on making the times that you do have together worthwhile and special. I know that many times my husband has voiced a desire to quit his job to "take care of me" but I just wont let him do that! It's stupid. I can take care of myself, and yes I do have down times but I always get through some how.

It's good that your setting boundaries and letting her know what is unacceptable. Cheating is for sure out and honesty needs to be enforced. Her telling you she still loves an ex is not a very nice thing to do to you. Keep letting her know what's up setting you even if you have to adopt a "broken record" technique where you have to tell her over and over again.

paine

[disciple3d]

Hi Paine,

You are right, I don't think I should let her control me or change me. The reason I wanted to change my job wasn't all about her though. A lot of it was unhappiness and boredom from it.

I have been reconsidering it the last couple of days, and would be something I did in 6 months or so, not right now. I think I'm going to hold off doing anything dramatic for a while anyway.

The last couple of days have been good, despite me being down in London and away for her. She's been keeping in contact with me (which seems to be a first) when I'm not around and she hasn't been demanding. In fact she's been an angel, telling me she loves me and planning stuff we can do together when we see each other again. Last week she ignored me for two days for no apparent reason, so this is the polar opposite, and I am really appreciating it.

I have been less pushy and when she seems out of sorts, I've not been pursuing it unless she comes to me. This seems to work well, (although sometimes it's difficult) and at the moment she seems to be telling me when she's having problems. Last night she called me - at 1.30am lol - to tell me she made the whole day without being sick and kept all her meals down. This is fantastic because she's not been able to do this for awhile, and so I feel really proud of her right now.

I've ordered a couple of BPD books off Amazon - 'Stop Walking on Egg Shells' and another which I can't remember the name of, so I'm going to read them and give them to her to read if she is willing.

I'm trying really hard and at the moment it seems to be going quite well, so I'm feeling really appreciate of all the advice.

Thank you so much, I was feeling really lonely last week and I really feel having people understand has helped me get to a happier place I hope it continues to get better.

I thought about writing down my thoughts each day to help me understand what happens with her moods better, so I can understand how to be more supportive and a generally better boyfriend really.

What you say about boundaries is good - I haven't got to grips with how to get her to listen to my requests properly yet. Maybe the broken record is the best way. Like how she treats me when I don't close the doors in her house!

thanks,

Chris

[Athas]

Chris, I'm glad things are looking better for you and your gf.

There isn't much more I can add to what the others said and I guess they gave you good advice.

What I admire is that you don't simply leave her. Too many people think relationships have to be all smooth and soft and walk out when it gets difficult. Living with a BPD patient is very difficult, I know that because I am one and I've seen other people's despair when trying to cope with me.

Keep writing if it helps you.

I'm kind of worried because your gf won't see a doctor. I can understand she hates doctors after what she's been through, I've had so many doctors mess me up I really hated them too for a while (and it still takes me weeks to go and see a doctor if I have some physical problem), but it seems like she really needs professional help. I'm sure your love can help her a lot, but sometimes that isn't enough. The bulimia can get really dangerous, it can ruin her teath, make her oesophagus sore and even lead to the oesophagus getting holes, it messes up her whole body. I guess you know that, or at least she knows that.

I wish both of you all the best and that you'll have several good weeks in a row! :)

[disciple3d]

Hi Athas,

Thanks for your kind words. It was looking good this morning, but she's told be she's been sick a few times today and sent me all these links to ProAna sites she's been reading (things like www.thinspiration.com).

I got annoyed with her and told her they are written by a bunch of nutters with next to no medical knowledge, and a lot of junk science. Still she reads them though.

I told her that she isn't fat and that eating is normal and healthy. I also said that the bulimia itself is making her less attractive (it is, she is going pale, bloodshot eyes, damaged teeth and knuckles, and burst capillaries) which may have been a bad move, but I thought it might work.

She just said she wants to be thin, and thin = beautiful. I told her not all thin women were attractive and that I am more attracted to healthy looking women than skinny, unhealthy looking ones. I may be digging myself a hole here, but she didn't seem mad with me.

I am annoyed she won't see a doctor and expects me to be able to treat her, despite not being a therapist or having a great deal of medical knowledge. I know a little about nutrition, but only as reading it for my own gym training, and I don't feel comfortable trying to say the right things. I have said I will tell her mum and her college (she is going to stage school so they are very aware of eating disorders) but she is worried about being kicked out of the college or the way her mum will speak to her afterwards, and to be honest I can't see myself doing that too her. She'd be so angry and upset with me.

Bulimia is seriously distorting her menstrual cycles - she's on her third period this month - she's taking the pill but she keeps throwing it up, so that seems to be having unpredictable effects on her body. She has next to no sex drive now too. Partly this seems to be to do with her own body image, but mostly I think because she is so malnourished from not eating properly.

She is worried about her teeth which are being damaged by the acid from her stomach and has asked me for some bicarbonate of soda today. She's coming over soon, and I've convinced her she needs to eat, but she'll only eat a half a can of soup and a slice of bread. I told her she needs 1500 cals a day, but today she has eaten about 500 or 600 and 300 of it she threw up.

I don't know what to say - I've told her her BMR (Base Metabolic Rate) will go down because she's not eating, so she'll lose weight less quickly, and that she'll feel lethargic all the time, and I've told her she can become malnourished. I've also told her the reason she's been so unhappy is because she's starving herself, which she practically has been this week, but she won't listen to me. On the other hand she is telling me every time she is sick just about, without me pushing her. This just has the effect of being a massive turnoff, and me losing more and more respect for her, because she doesn't take any of my advice.

I feel that this is the most pressing issue at the moment. She doesn't seem to be ignoring me or angry with me right now but she is incredibly needy about the bulimia, and since she's told me about it, it's got worse, not better. I feel powerless to stop her and it makes me angry that she treats me like a therapist and won't get professional help.

I want to stay with her and I love her. I don't mind working through rough parts of a relationship, but I never expected to become a counciller to my girlfriend either. I feel like some of the work I am putting in is paying off, but as far as her eating disorder is concerned I just feel pathetic. I am torn between carrying on as I am doing, or telling her I won't help her anymore unless she sees a doctor. She asked me to give her a week, and I have, but now she is backing out on our deal that she would speak to someone about it. I have told her I will speak to people on her behalf, but I don't know if that's good enough.

Sorry - I was really optimistic this morning, and this evening I feel more like going out with my friends than giving her the TLC she seems to need today. I hope I can help her, but my optimism has disappeared this afternoon!

thanks,

Chris

[rebeccaborderline]

its seems to me that she is tryig to push all responsibility for her illness (es) onto you, by telling you about it in great detail and expecting you to "save" her. This is no good, she must take responsibility for what she is doing to herself. This should be done with the assistance of doctors. She should go to the docs, or you will have to withdraw your support; as it stands, her leaning on you too much will make it worse

rebeccaborderline

[bibiddi]

You are not a therapist.

Without knowledge you could do more harm than help.

Its an eating disorder, you cannot make her stop.

[Athas]

Chris, I agree, you can't be a therapist for your girlfriend. I still think it's good that you didn't simply walk out, but it's important that she sees a therapist because (as you seem to already know well) you don't have the qualifications to provide the professional help. I think pushing her to get help is a good thing, I just can't promise it will work. But don't let her push you into the role of a therapist. Providing love and care is one thing, but as a person who is involved with her, you probably couldn't even help her if you had the qualifications.

I'm so sorry things look worse again.

[disciple3d]

Hi Athos,

No, you're all right, and I'm not intending on being any kind of therapist. I'm just stuck because she won't pay attention to my requests to see one. Last night I cooked her a healthy meal and she kept it all down despite feeling sick and dizzy, so that was good. She was fighting urges though, so I know she'll be straight back to doing it as soon as I'm not around.

I know I need to provide help, but I'm not sure where my role as her partner ends really - I try to understand what motivates her to want to be sick every time she eats and talk her out of doing it, but that's all I can do. I hate her doing it, it makes me feel awful. I'll keep working on getting her to see someone. Right now I'm going to bring some breakfast into her and try to get her to eat it.

thanks,

Chris

[bibiddi]

You may make her go to therapy, but you cant make her do it.

Therapy has to be done at the right time for her, and not for you.

I do worry about your need to control her behaviour.

Take responsibilty for your own actions,and she has to take responsibility for hers.

Because at the moment it sounds like you are treating her like a child, and she isnt.

[disciple3d]

Hi Bibiddi,

I'm not treating her like a child, although it may seem like that from what I've said. I tell her the exactly same thing - that only she can make herself stop and that I can't stop her or control her actions.

I can do my best to influence her though, and what kind of partner would I be if I didn't try to help her stop something that was affecting her health? I'm just trying to get her to go to the doctor, and day by day cooking her healthy food and encouraging her to keep eating. I keep telling her how beautiful she is because she has real issues with how she feels about herself at the moment.

I know therapy has to be done at the right time - but when it's making her upset and controlling her life to a huge degree, isn't that the right time? She has been bullemic on and off for 12 years, but it's only recently she's come to see it as an illness and I do really want to get her help wile she's in that frame of mind. so she can be healthy in the future, but it's hard to help her get over her fear of doctors. Last night she said she would call someone though, which I think is a massive step forward.

Chris

[disciple3d]

Well, shes agreed to go to the doctor about the Bulimia, but things are not good otherwise. Last night I came back home, and she was so cold I felt like she didn't want to be with me at all. I know in a couple of days she'll be the complete opposite, but I find it really hard to cope with the mood swings. I was feeling really vulnerable and just needed some reassurance last night. She was in the complete opposite mood, talking about her future, and excluding me from all her plans (I'm going to go abroad for two years, no you can't come...)

So I was upset and then angry because last week she told me she wanted to marry me. I find it so hard to know what mood she'll be in from one moment to the next. She hardly ever kisses me now, and we haven't had sex for weeks. I have been doing all the washing up and the cooking, and she has been borrowing money off me and getting me to pay for things. I'm very close to breaking up with her because when we talk about it, she tells me it's not her fault, because she has an illness, and that she can't control it.

I told her last night that it's not her fault she has an illness, but it is her fault she's not being treated for it, or trying to get better (she hasn't ever had any treatment for BPD and I have the one being seeking help about it, buying books and things).

I love her and that is why I am staying at the moment, but I am finding it so hard. I feel really unloved and unaprpeciated, and if I'm like this, she just calls me a pussy and tells me I'm oversensitive.

I want to help her, and be with her, but I don't know what to say or do. Can anyone help?

[Remy]

I have to admit don't think I can really help at all, but I just have to say this is so painful & uncannily familiar to read as I have gone through almost all the same emotions you have too with my ex-GF. You also sound a lot like me, in that you care so much it actually seems to make things worse. You also sound like you care way more for her than you do for yourself, something I can really relate to as well. I just thought it just might be helpful to hear you're not the only one who's felt all this. Although I did not experience anything like the bulimia too, that must be a huge added weight. I really feel for you and just wish I had some better advice.

As far as the BPD goes, I think educating yourself about it is a very good thing. I think I left it too late to gain a real understanding about it, and I'd already acted with too much co-dependant behaviours in many areas before realising what was really going on - which made it impossible to undo some of my actions later. 'Walking on Eggshells' is pretty good, but I do not recommend letting her read it as it is really not written with consideration for a BPD sufferers own feelings - I feel it is likely to annoy her more and drive her further away from seeking any help about it.

I do think that's the crux of it though - somehow getting her to seek & continue with some help for herself. I just wish there was any easy way to do this though.. but I know hard it is. Threats and ultimatums quite often won't work. I just tried to get her to see that this will actually be a GOOD thing for her and a way she can find herself feeling happier. Does she feel happy living how she does now? Try not to 'blame' her though with things like "its your fault for not doing it.." as she is likely to react very badly to that. But you are really right to work on her "not her fault, because she has an illness, and that she can't control it" attitude. I think that's really her worst problem right now. What mattered to me the most was that my GF was at least trying in some way.

I didn't actually have this 'motivation' problem so much though.. my ex could see therapy was a good idea & had even had some in the past - it was just getting past the barriers to her being able to get any, and getting her to commit to it that was the hard thing. And of course once it all looked good, and she was on some therapy and did seem committed - she then dumped me the next week which also ended her therapy (as I had been paying for it). But enough about my sad story.. but I hate to say it, it is probably a cautionary warning for you, especially about not doing anything too dramatic about quitting your job for her etc. Crap I have been there too. I would've certainly done it as well, or even moved abroad with her. But obviously now I feel lucky I didn't in some ways.

[Miko]

Additional points coming to me and I'm no expert ---

--- Friend is more important in the deep down scheme of things than Girlfriend. It's OK and good to be in love with one's friends provided it doesn't turn one's head re, judgment and provided it doesn't cause mushy emotions to overrule. If she and you want to regard each other as boyfriend and girlfriend explicitly, that's fine, but it may be better to leave the parameters of that flexible and implicit as much as possible (i.e not talking about it so much as actually getting on with doing ordinary things together - and definitely less of this 'talking about talking about it').

--- In respect of minor pieces of apparent insincerity like saying you are well when you aren't, for a start that is actually perfectly ladylike, then it is called a 'white lie' which is definitely not the unacceptable kind of lie. By starting with that, then the next day admitting 'well yes I was ill that night' is paying you a compliment because you could be a person worth getting closer to. Getting heavy over this is the opposite to the right response in my opinion.

--- Your friend is over-ready to identify instances in her behaviour to confirm her view of herself as a 'bad person'. The only 'bad persons' are people very deliberately 100% committed to evils, you can know that, as for her the conversation is best steered away from topics like commitment, throw in a 'joke' about horns and tails as a long shot, but anyway, if one can see this gambit coming maybe one can help avert it some of the time. Highlighting what is in fact tact and discretion and calling it unacceptable is heading her headlong for the spot she must be steered away from.

--- Distance and time are essential in all relationships !!!!! !!!!! !!!!! !!!!! !!!!! Throw away your texting machines and mobile phones. The proper way to communicate is to draw up in your carriage at someone's door, send the servant to the door, who is admitted to the library, only to learn after a while whoever it is is 'not at home', and a card is left to indicate who called. That is not a bad sign, it is a good sign, it is an acceptable way of going through the motions of keeping contact. It doesn't invade anyone's space. If your friend and you are fond of acting roles you could pretend to be Cranford or something. Discover first and second class post. A phone is a new fangled instrument that - since ansaphones were invented - doesn't have to be answered there and then. Mine is busy if it rings six times a week including business calls. I make about the same number. It sits on a shelf in my living room. I don't take it with me anywhere! Send her a postcard - because it wasn't a postcard sending scenario in Prague as you were both there together. A postcard from Post-Prague !!!

--- Your friend is in severe grief over her lost child, it is nowadays more & more recommended she name the child and picture the child in a better place 'praying' for good things for his/her mother, 'gone on before' as it were. If your friend can identify some form of prayer or meditation that appeals to her, it could give a context for a sort of remembrance of what might have been for this small person that she didn't get to know, what might have been between them. Their relationship carries on in a way and however nebulous most of the details, I would want it to become a gift she can carry on living with. (Despite the child presumably being a fruit of a broken relationship.) One only claims not to have feelings when one hasn't yet reached the point of identifying them. We've all been there and we each still are over many issues. When the subject is of interest, this point can be made, otherwise not pressed.

--- Your friend has many health problems and has known many illnesses. I hope she and you can 'give her a break' in terms of not overstraining her mental expectations for living in her frail body. This is a vital point for all of us. You can lead by example and it is reinforced by not talking explicitly about it.

--- Role play white lying for fun. Come back to it as a wholesome game.

--- A fabulous week in Prague is heavy on everybody's constitution. Who ever doesn't have a row after coming home from holiday? Why be displeased someone wants their own company to unwind for a few days!!! I'd be pleased to have struck up friendship with such a wise, constructive person.

--- Healing things are - doing ordinary things for the sheer ordinary enjoyment of it - space - time - more space - more time -

[disciple3d]

Hi Remy,

Thanks, it's good to know someone else has felt the same way. At the moment I feel like I'm going crazy and there's something wrong with me. She goes insanely upset one moment and needs so much support, and the next it's like I don't exist. I'm reading Walking on Eggshells at the moment - I bought her another book called In the Mirror, or something like that - you're right, some of the stuff in here would chronically wind her up.

I feel guilty because last night in bed she paid so little attention to me that I tried to annoy her deliberately, just to illicit some kind of reaction. Then she got a bit pissed off with me and rolled over away from me again. A few minutes later she had violent stomach cramps (a nice side effect of Bulimia) and so I went to hug her. She melted in my arms and told me she loved me. And she kissed me. Which is pretty remarkable given her mood. And then guess what...her stomach cramps go away and she pushes me off for the rest of the night. Sometimes I feel so stupid.

So last night she tells me intermittently - she's not sure if she loves me, she does love me, she wants to be with me, she's not sure she wants to be with me...she doesn't want anything to hold her back from her career...I'm not holding her back from it... etc etc. It's so hard to keep up with what she really feels. I would move abroad for her, I work in computing and I could do that - at least I could consider it. So I tell her this. But she doesn't want me to. At least last night. And so I keep trying to prove my love and she keeps making light of it, like nothing I want matters.

Other days, I don't take it so personally. At the moment I'm listening to Ben Folds' album 'Songs for Silverman' and am starting to feel like some of the songs were written about our relationship. 'Landed' and 'Give Judy my Notice' have made me cry this morning and I'm supposed to be working. She dominates so much of my thought process I'm starting to feel like I'm crazy.

When I have asked her about getting treated before she says that BPD is incurable, so there's no point. She 'doesn't need a therapist to tell her she's fucked up, she already knows that.' I paraphrase. She doesn't want to go back on medication, she did take anti-depressents but she said they made her feel numb. I don't want to force her to do anything, I want her to care enough about her problems to seek help. You're right - knowing she is trying is what keeps me motivated, and the moment she really isn't, and that's hard. I'm considering going back to my place tonight but I'm not sure whether talking or distance is best at the moment.

I have thought about it a lot, and I think I'm going to give it a couple of weeks. I think by then she will have seen a doctor about the bulimia at least. And I'll know whether I can really cope with this, or whether our relationship is going to send me spirilling back into depression, a place I have spent so much time trying to crawl out of. I don't want her to suffer, and I want her to get better, but I can't be her therapist. I have my own needs and ambitions, and at the moment she doesn't want to consider them as part of her life. I really hope things get better because leaving her is going to half kill me. But if I feel if I don't do it soon, I'm never going to recover how I feel about myself.

I know this is also weird but she used to be an escort...I feel like if I leave her, she will go back to that, since I won't be there to help pay for things. And that's another reason I want to stay with her. Because I don't want her to be a prostitute again. So yeah, things are pretty messed up. Why did I start seeing a bulimic escort with BPD you may ask? Well she does have a lot of redeeming qualities too...

No, we met on match.com, not on one of her jobs...in case that's what you were thinking. I have never paid for sex

[aliceshiso]

Hi Remy,

Thanks, it's good to know someone else has felt the same way. At the moment I feel like I'm going crazy and there's something wrong with me. She goes insanely upset one moment and needs so much support, and the next it's like I don't exist. I'm reading Walking on Eggshells at the moment - I bought her another book called In the Mirror, or something like that - you're right, some of the stuff in here would chronically wind her up.

I feel guilty because last night in bed she paid so little attention to me that I tried to annoy her deliberately, just to illicit some kind of reaction. Then she got a bit pissed off with me and rolled over away from me again. A few minutes later she had violent stomach cramps (a nice side effect of Bulimia) and so I went to hug her. She melted in my arms and told me she loved me. And she kissed me. Which is pretty remarkable given her mood. And then guess what...her stomach cramps go away and she pushes me off for the rest of the night. Sometimes I feel so stupid.

So last night she tells me intermittently - she's not sure if she loves me, she does love me, she wants to be with me, she's not sure she wants to be with me...she doesn't want anything to hold her back from her career...I'm not holding her back from it... etc etc. It's so hard to keep up with what she really feels. I would move abroad for her, I work in computing and I could do that - at least I could consider it. So I tell her this. But she doesn't want me to. At least last night. And so I keep trying to prove my love and she keeps making light of it, like nothing I want matters.

Other days, I don't take it so personally. At the moment I'm listening to Ben Folds' album 'Songs for Silverman' and am starting to feel like some of the songs were written about our relationship. 'Landed' and 'Give Judy my Notice' have made me cry this morning and I'm supposed to be working. She dominates so much of my thought process I'm starting to feel like I'm crazy.

When I have asked her about getting treated before she says that BPD is incurable, so there's no point. She 'doesn't need a therapist to tell her she's fucked up, she already knows that.' I paraphrase. She doesn't want to go back on medication, she did take anti-depressents but she said they made her feel numb. I don't want to force her to do anything, I want her to care enough about her problems to seek help. You're right - knowing she is trying is what keeps me motivated, and the moment she really isn't, and that's hard. I'm considering going back to my place tonight but I'm not sure whether talking or distance is best at the moment.

I have thought about it a lot, and I think I'm going to give it a couple of weeks. I think by then she will have seen a doctor about the bulimia at least. And I'll know whether I can really cope with this, or whether our relationship is going to send me spirilling back into depression, a place I have spent so much time trying to crawl out of. I don't want her to suffer, and I want her to get better, but I can't be her therapist. I have my own needs and ambitions, and at the moment she doesn't want to consider them as part of her life. I really hope things get better because leaving her is going to half kill me. But if I feel if I don't do it soon, I'm never going to recover how I feel about myself.

I know this is also weird but she used to be an escort...I feel like if I leave her, she will go back to that, since I won't be there to help pay for things. And that's another reason I want to stay with her. Because I don't want her to be a prostitute again. So yeah, things are pretty messed up. Why did I start seeing a bulimic escort with BPD you may ask? Well she does have a lot of redeeming qualities too...

No, we met on match.com, not on one of her jobs...in case that's what you were thinking. I have never paid for sex

Chris-

You can take what I say, or ignore it- that's your choice. I am new on here, but feel very compelled to write to you. I am in the position your girlfriend is in. I have someone who is concerned about me, just as you are about your girlfriend. It all sounds very familiar indeed, and I worry greatly what is happening to her. I have had my problems since i was a child, and there isn't a day that goes by that I don't feel heavy hearted with pain that I wasn't forced to do something. Yes, she is her own person. But her life is at serious risk. You can't put this off until she is making attempts at her life. The only advice anyone can give you on a forum like this is from their own experiences. I know from mine that you must hospitalise her. I wish someone had taken me and my self destructive behaviour seriously. I wish someone had thought it important enough that they spoke to a doctor on my behalf and pushed for something to happen. Each day she isn't treated will take weeks to undo. It takes strength she just won't have to do this on her own. You must bridge the gap, or if you feel it isn't for you to do, tell her GP or her mother. I wish someone had done this so long ago for me.

I call tell that you are deeply concerned- and this is so important. I'm afraid when someone is as sick as your girlfriend is, it's not a case of being their pal or comrade- you must protect her from herself. There are ways to do that, and I think you have to take them. I only say this because of how i have felt. I'm sorry if I have misread your situation or offended you.

I truly hope that the sun comes out soon for her, and for you.

Alice

[disciple3d]

Hi Alice,

I don't think she's going to try to hurt herself. She has said she hasn't self harmed since we started going out, and I believe her because I would have seen the wounds. But I do believe she is being very self destructive. She has talked several times about hospitalising herself - I want this to be something she does herself if she ever wants it though.

She leads a normal life and is perfectly capable of coping by herself. If I'm not around she doesn't eat well, and throws up more, but she does get by and does most of her housework and things fine. She does work very hard, so I think a lot of the time she's distracted (she goes to stage school and works in the evenings.)

So, she's ok from that sense. She's not happy but sometimes she swears she is. Like last night she was acting like she was indestructible. When I asked her where all the pain and hurt from earlier in the day had gone, she said 'it's in a little box'. I told her that not dealing with her problems doesn't help her, and all sorts of stuff, but she ignored me.

Her parents don't know about the BPD or the bulimia. They do know what she's like though obviously. On Sunday her mum spoke to me on the phone and said she'd need a shoulder to cry on if her audition didn't go well, and when it didn't she was pretty upset that day. But she seemed to get over it ok.

The next day when I wasn't there, she called me really upset because of a washing accident (mix of dark and light colours) which was my fault. She made me feel awful about it, but then called an hour later to apologise.

I would love to bring her parents in on it to help, because they really care about her. But she is would hate it if I did and would break up with me. I suppose at least she might get some help from them then though.

I don't want her to be hospitalised - I do want her to see a doctor though which I hope she'll do soon. Maybe a psychiatrist will help get to the root of some of her problems. I think there's something awful in her past she hasn't told me about yet. Her last boyfriend used to hit her and pushed her down the stairs one time, but she still talks to him. Her family hate him and disowned her last time she got back with him. Recently he's been trying to get her back but she's said no. I don't like her talking to him, but she keeps telling me that she has been and telling me about things they used to do together.

I find this difficult to deal with and I'm not sure what to do. She says they are just friends, but I know he still has feelings for her, and I find it difficult to cope with the thought of losing her to someone so abusive too.

Chris

[gpone]

oh my god.. i swear to god i could have written all your posts myself. this is the SAME exact relationship i have had for 2 and a half years.. bulemia , BPD, Self worthlessness, all of it.

i don't know what to tell you exept for that now you have the knowlege that she has a disease that is very complicated. A lot of times things will make ZERO sense to you, but will try to be justified to no end by her. It is very tough. and you have to choose your words carfully, and have to learn not to get excited. When these things happen I just choose to remind myself of all the good things she does for me and others. and i remind her as well (sometimes not taken well by her)]

i hope this helps at least a little.

[Remy]

Hi Remy,

Thanks, it's good to know someone else has felt the same way. At the moment I feel like I'm going crazy and there's something wrong with me. She goes insanely upset one moment and needs so much support, and the next it's like I don't exist. I'm reading Walking on Eggshells at the moment - I bought her another book called In the Mirror, or something like that - you're right, some of the stuff in here would chronically wind her up.

I've felt like I was going crazy too at times. You may very well need help with coping with all of this yourself too. I ended up seeing a counsellor for a time to cope with going out with my ex. I really recommend it. If you have friends you feel you can talk to about it all - do so, that is probably even more useful. I was in a bad situation trying to 'protect' my ex by not letting on to all my close friends about the fact she had BPD (& even help cover up the really bad things she did!), yet this left me with almost none of my normal support network. Talking to people on this board may be useful too. But be wary of blindly following advice of internet strangers - like me! hah. But I do not pretend to offer any great insights - just telling you my views and experiences. Hopefully people will put me right if I am talking any rubbish here too!

I feel guilty because last night in bed she paid so little attention to me that I tried to annoy her deliberately, just to illicit some kind of reaction. Then she got a bit pissed off with me and rolled over away from me again. A few minutes later she had violent stomach cramps (a nice side effect of Bulimia) and so I went to hug her. She melted in my arms and told me she loved me. And she kissed me. Which is pretty remarkable given her mood. And then guess what...her stomach cramps go away and she pushes me off for the rest of the night. Sometimes I feel so stupid.

Been there & had something very similar happen many times to me too. You shouldn't feel too guilty though. I know you feel like you were being a bit manipulative, but to me, that sounds really mild. I mean, I wonder who hasn't done something like that ever. But I do understand how you feel.

I fight myself all the time these days to NOT take really manipulative actions - especially ones I could do to try to get back with her or damage her current relationship!

Don't feel stupid though. What do you have to feel stupid about? That you were 'taken in' by her mood changes? I doubt she was trying to fool you you know - that was probably really what she was feeling at the time.

So last night she tells me intermittently - she's not sure if she loves me, she does love me, she wants to be with me, she's not sure she wants to be with me...she doesn't want anything to hold her back from her career...I'm not holding her back from it... etc etc. It's so hard to keep up with what she really feels. I would move abroad for her, I work in computing and I could do that - at least I could consider it. So I tell her this. But she doesn't want me to. At least last night. And so I keep trying to prove my love and she keeps making light of it, like nothing I want matters.

Yep I've had all of that too... and I still get it NOW to some extent. And as hard as it was to know what she really wanted when close to her, it's even harder from afar.

I wish I had some advice as I still have no idea how to cope with this myself and I'm still very affected by her & how she treats me. Which still varies wildly.

Other days, I don't take it so personally. At the moment I'm listening to Ben Folds' album 'Songs for Silverman' and am starting to feel like some of the songs were written about our relationship. 'Landed' and 'Give Judy my Notice' have made me cry this morning and I'm supposed to be working. She dominates so much of my thought process I'm starting to feel like I'm crazy.

This doesn't sound crazy though at all. I mean, I've been in love so much that I am always thinking about someone, and cried to some songs about it during & after almost all my relationships. I don't think that's 'crazy' in any way. Although I'm just quite an openly emotional person, especially for a 'man'.

When I have asked her about getting treated before she says that BPD is incurable, so there's no point.

Well, if it may help, you can gather a fair bit of evidence that's not true. IMO the causes and some of the feelings are not curable of course, but how much effect they have on her and how she deals with them - that bit she can most certainly change if she wants to and has the right help and support with it. Almost everything felt by someone diagnosed with "BPD" (or any 'disorder') are the same feelings that everyone else gets too. It's only the frequency & strength of the emotions and strength of the reaction it causes in that person and how they deal with it that leads to the 'disorder' diagnosis.

She 'doesn't need a therapist to tell her she's fucked up, she already knows that.' I paraphrase. She doesn't want to go back on medication, she did take anti-depressents but she said they made her feel numb. I don't want to force her to do anything, I want her to care enough about her problems to seek help. You're right - knowing she is trying is what keeps me motivated, and the moment she really isn't, and that's hard. I'm considering going back to my place tonight but I'm not sure whether talking or distance is best at the moment.

You may have done so already, but I'd try and explain to her why it matters to you so much that she is trying. It sounds like this does matter to you a lot. Try and get her to understand that therapy is not about "telling her she is fucked up" like that - the idea is to give her the support to help herself.

I've used the analogy of therapy to a inhaler for someone with asthma in the past; it may not really work, but it does explain how I think about it myself. Yes, it might not 'cure' it, yes you may still get 'attacks' - but it would be foolish to go around without an inhaler if you had asthma.

I have thought about it a lot, and I think I'm going to give it a couple of weeks. I think by then she will have seen a doctor about the bulimia at least. And I'll know whether I can really cope with this, or whether our relationship is going to send me spirilling back into depression, a place I have spent so much time trying to crawl out of. I don't want her to suffer, and I want her to get better, but I can't be her therapist. I have my own needs and ambitions, and at the moment she doesn't want to consider them as part of her life. I really hope things get better because leaving her is going to half kill me. But if I feel if I don't do it soon, I'm never going to recover how I feel about myself.

I think it's really good that you are thinking of yourself and your own needs here. Stick to it.

I am (& was!) exceedingly bad at this!

I know this is also weird but she used to be an escort...I feel like if I leave her, she will go back to that, since I won't be there to help pay for things. And that's another reason I want to stay with her. Because I don't want her to be a prostitute again. So yeah, things are pretty messed up. Why did I start seeing a bulimic escort with BPD you may ask? Well she does have a lot of redeeming qualities too...

No, we met on match.com, not on one of her jobs...in case that's what you were thinking. I have never paid for sex

*laughs* I honestly wasn't thinking that at all...

But this is something really hard to say, and something that I feel almost hypocritical saying myself but: you can't save her if she doesn't want to save herself. I'm in a bit of that position too, how to move on (yet not even sure I want to yet, and not even sure she always wants to), yet still offer an olive branch if she needs it.

One thing to watch for is if you have a pattern of going out with people like this, the whole 'trying to save them' it can be a very destructive thing for you too. But you don't quite sound like that. I was concerned about this element of myself, but having read more about it, I'm not normally like that though.

Oh and I know all about redeeming qualities. Especially once you really fall for someone. Despite everything I've been put through, I would absolutely consider going back out with my exGF. She even tried to mock me with this fact in a nightclub last week, saying "You'd get back with me wouldn't you!" - but I think my reply of "probably" actually surprised her a little I didn't just say yes.

[Remy]

I'm reading Walking on Eggshells at the moment - I bought her another book called In the Mirror, or something like that - you're right, some of the stuff in here would chronically wind her up.

I should've added there are books - and places like this site - that are geared towards a person actually diagnosed with BPD like her. It sounds like you've already done or are doing research though & are aware of this. Obviously I do not feel I am not the best person to recommend books on this basis!

[Remy]

Her parents don't know about the BPD or the bulimia. They do know what she's like though obviously. On Sunday her mum spoke to me on the phone and said she'd need a shoulder to cry on if her audition didn't go well, and when it didn't she was pretty upset that day. But she seemed to get over it ok.

...

I would love to bring her parents in on it to help, because they really care about her. But she is would hate it if I did and would break up with me. I suppose at least she might get some help from them then though.

I don't feel I can offer any advice regarding the hospitalisation as that's way beyond my own experiences, but with regards to her parents, have you talked to her why she hasn't told them about any of this herself? (I can guess.. but it maybe worth asking).

I think there's something awful in her past she hasn't told me about yet.

Can you identify her with some of the 'causes' of BPD from what she has told you? Thankfully my ex did talk openly about this.. & literally everything in the BPD criteria has happened to her in her awful past.

Her last boyfriend used to hit her and pushed her down the stairs one time, but she still talks to him. Her family hate him and disowned her last time she got back with him. Recently he's been trying to get her back but she's said no. I don't like her talking to him, but she keeps telling me that she has been and telling me about things they used to do together.

I find this difficult to deal with and I'm not sure what to do. She says they are just friends, but I know he still has feelings for her, and I find it difficult to cope with the thought of losing her to someone so abusive too.

Chris

Just a note - it is possible that he is not necessarily especially abusive btw. At least not from that single anecdote. I mean.. sadly someone with BPD can be very very good at hurting someone else and making them angry enough to do something like this. I read once that being with someone with BPD will force you to learn all about your own anger. Well if that's true, I learnt I have almost none whatsoever! :mellow: