brokenmind Posted March 26, 2008 Author Report Share Posted March 26, 2008 thank you feisty. well today ive had lots of fun etc in live chat, which has helped. i know i have to get past this. my moods are constantly changing at the moment. im not saying im going to be dead next week, im not sure, got to take everyday as it comes. sorry, i didnt mean to turn this into a crisis point thing, was just trying to get my point across. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
icu_baby Posted March 27, 2008 Report Share Posted March 27, 2008 what i think is that well these so called MH professionals dont know what its like. they say people with bpd are manipulative when it comes to suicide n self harm, but if its merely manipulative and attention seeking then why are we more likely to actually end up as a suicide statistic. they havent a clue what its like when everyday you tell yourself to kill yourself. when one minute you can be happy & the next you want to be dead. maybe we do need to take responsibility but surely sometimes when we are in one of our more dark phases they could help us. we dont choose to be like this so, when we self harm its as little our fault as a broken leg etc. well maybe someone whose broke a leg doing something silly. if erm a stunt driver for example turned up at a&e for the 10th or so time with a broken bone, they wouldnt turn them away, and refuse to help. would they refuse to help and say its your fault, you need to be more responsible for yourself? nope, absolutely not. what about someone with other MH problems other than bpd who is suicidal, they wouldnt get told to take responsibilty. maybe they are doing what they think is right, but isnt it a gamble, a dangerous gamble because its somebodys life! im at cracking point myself at the moment, honest and truthfully, not a manipulation or attention seeking, & ive told my cpn & all i get is we cant really help you, you have to take responsibility for yourself. so what happens if i end up dead next week, they could have prevented it by helping me get better and past this stage of dispair, but instead by making me learn to take responsibilty i am dead. what use is it then, a deadly lesson.Brokenmind, this is a really good analogy. Have you tried to explain this to your treating CPN or pdoc? I reallly think you should say exactly what you have written above. I wonder how they will respond to this?please take careicu_baby Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yorkiegal73 Posted March 27, 2008 Report Share Posted March 27, 2008 icu baby, I think it must be so frustrating for the nurses on duty at A&E or on the psych wards. I'm sure they've been told in training that BPD is incurable. They're faced with someone who presents in one particular mood, but can be completely different a few hours later. I get annoyed with myself for it so i'm not surprised that they do too. I just wish they understood why i'm like i am. For example, last year i od'd on the ward and was taken over to the emergency room. I was very tearful and depressed, refusing treatment because i just wanted to die. Four hours later i was sat on a bed chatting away to the nurse who was sent to accompany me. I was buzzing. She'd spent several hours talking me out of suicidal feelings and there i was acting like nothing had happened and moaning about not being able to smoke. Several staff members had to stay past the end of their shift that night because of me. I can completely understand that seeing that over and over, plus seeing people who seem better turn up again time after time, must make some nurses give up. They desperately need better training to understand BPD. I think they would prefer us to be successful in our suicide attempts because they know they can't make us better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
icu_baby Posted March 27, 2008 Report Share Posted March 27, 2008 Sometimes I think that the professionals wish we'd just be successful in our suicide attempts, and then they wouldn't have to go through the sham of putting us on a ward for three days.In California they gave me some nickname and turned me away several times , even with cuts on arms and in a frantic state. They told me they could no longer help me. I guess after my 25th 5150 they had enough.But I'm not sure exactly what you wanted them to do after the 25th time, the same thing will happen, you will get admitted for another 3 days sitting there wasting time and then will repeat the same thing. In a way there hands are tied. The best thing is doing something like DBT.cheersicu_babyi know you mean well icu baby, so dont take this personally, but reading this comment made me very angryi will try and write it and understand it, ok, if someone presented at the hospital having broken their leg that many times, there would be a flag wouldnt there, to say someone needs help in learning to walk, or needs a stronger stick to lean on, or stronger glasses .... SOMETHING, but in the case of SH, as its self inflected, then in this case, no help is forthcoming ??!!i know having read somewhere and know it from experience, if someone is needy and you fill that need, they then become dependent on you, scuses if i offend with that, its me trying to understand, not pointing fingers yet at the same time, this is also us crying out for help, attention, support, whatever, and again, cos its mental, we are told, go home, learn other methods in order to copei know humanity is losing its ability to care, thats not the same as not responding, or not patching up someone, or providing emergency care, but isnt this the same ?i guess not, its self inflicted, if we kicked out as children, to say, get away, i dont like what you are doing to me, then we were punished, and then when we say .. i cant cope any more, i hurt, i cant deal with it, we are told, go home, learn new tricks, jump that bit higher, there is no supportsorry, i know my rationale side isnt working today, but i also know as humankind, we arent responding any more, we cant, or we would suck them all under with usbut why didnt they (!?!) stop the perpetrators in the first place, thats where it will stop, when abuse is recognised and dealt with ... when things cant go on behind closed doors, and ranks closed against harm to humanityas a human race, im sure there are more of us head fucked now, than there are of us supposedly healthy, its outbalancedHi Feisty, I understand your point, yes you are quite right. If we had loving families I guess most people wouldn't need to seek help from professionals. I guess I was trying to see things from their perspective but their perspective is still quite flawed. What you say makes alot of sense, if they want us to have responsibility then they should give us the right amount of tools and support to help/teach us. Sometimes I think that the people on BPDWorld have more sense then the professionals and we could actually teach them alot of things. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brokenmind Posted March 27, 2008 Author Report Share Posted March 27, 2008 what i think is that well these so called MH professionals dont know what its like. they say people with bpd are manipulative when it comes to suicide n self harm, but if its merely manipulative and attention seeking then why are we more likely to actually end up as a suicide statistic. they havent a clue what its like when everyday you tell yourself to kill yourself. when one minute you can be happy & the next you want to be dead. maybe we do need to take responsibility but surely sometimes when we are in one of our more dark phases they could help us. we dont choose to be like this so, when we self harm its as little our fault as a broken leg etc. well maybe someone whose broke a leg doing something silly. if erm a stunt driver for example turned up at a&e for the 10th or so time with a broken bone, they wouldnt turn them away, and refuse to help. would they refuse to help and say its your fault, you need to be more responsible for yourself? nope, absolutely not. what about someone with other MH problems other than bpd who is suicidal, they wouldnt get told to take responsibilty. maybe they are doing what they think is right, but isnt it a gamble, a dangerous gamble because its somebodys life! im at cracking point myself at the moment, honest and truthfully, not a manipulation or attention seeking, & ive told my cpn & all i get is we cant really help you, you have to take responsibility for yourself. so what happens if i end up dead next week, they could have prevented it by helping me get better and past this stage of dispair, but instead by making me learn to take responsibilty i am dead. what use is it then, a deadly lesson.Brokenmind, this is a really good analogy. Have you tried to explain this to your treating CPN or pdoc? I reallly think you should say exactly what you have written above. I wonder how they will respond to this?please take careicu_babyhey icu_baby, thats a good idea, maybe i should, but yet again in person im shy and probably wont have the guts to do so. i dont like upsetting people etc, i dunno. its all good and well being able to sit at a computer & express my thoughts but in reality i struggle really badly Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
icu_baby Posted March 27, 2008 Report Share Posted March 27, 2008 what i think is that well these so called MH professionals dont know what its like. they say people with bpd are manipulative when it comes to suicide n self harm, but if its merely manipulative and attention seeking then why are we more likely to actually end up as a suicide statistic. they havent a clue what its like when everyday you tell yourself to kill yourself. when one minute you can be happy & the next you want to be dead. maybe we do need to take responsibility but surely sometimes when we are in one of our more dark phases they could help us. we dont choose to be like this so, when we self harm its as little our fault as a broken leg etc. well maybe someone whose broke a leg doing something silly. if erm a stunt driver for example turned up at a&e for the 10th or so time with a broken bone, they wouldnt turn them away, and refuse to help. would they refuse to help and say its your fault, you need to be more responsible for yourself? nope, absolutely not. what about someone with other MH problems other than bpd who is suicidal, they wouldnt get told to take responsibilty. maybe they are doing what they think is right, but isnt it a gamble, a dangerous gamble because its somebodys life! im at cracking point myself at the moment, honest and truthfully, not a manipulation or attention seeking, & ive told my cpn & all i get is we cant really help you, you have to take responsibility for yourself. so what happens if i end up dead next week, they could have prevented it by helping me get better and past this stage of dispair, but instead by making me learn to take responsibilty i am dead. what use is it then, a deadly lesson.Brokenmind, this is a really good analogy. Have you tried to explain this to your treating CPN or pdoc? I reallly think you should say exactly what you have written above. I wonder how they will respond to this?please take careicu_babyhey icu_baby, thats a good idea, maybe i should, but yet again in person im shy and probably wont have the guts to do so. i dont like upsetting people etc, i dunno. its all good and well being able to sit at a computer & express my thoughts but in reality i struggle really badlyHi Brokenmind, I know exactly what you mean, sometimes I am too shy and embarressed to say what you want to say but the only way someone can help you is if you tell them what is bothering you otherwise they are not able to help you. Sometimes I expect them to read my mind or say the opposite thinking that they know thats not what I want to say but it doesn't work like that. People are not mind readers. I tried this with my pdoc the other day. After a crisis I had last week I wrote down the date and my feelings/explanations/thoughts in a paragraph, like I was writing a diary to myself (in fact it was a section of my diary that I do on a word document to monitor how I feel on a particular day so it was my journal). Because I was too embarrassed to read it I gave it to my pdoc and she read it in silence. It was so much easier then me ever expressing what I wanted to say orally and it saved so much time. It might be very worthwhile to print out your paragraph and explain to your pdoc that you don't know how to tell her this but you wrote down your thoughts and you would like her to read it.I can't think of any other way to communicate something that is difficult to say orally. I think sometimes having it in writing is more powerful too. You can always have it on record so you don't have to explain it to different people all the time. It is really worth it trust me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brokenmind Posted March 27, 2008 Author Report Share Posted March 27, 2008 thx icu baby. good idea once again! but then i feel silly handing paper into lol. its difficult cos by the time it comes to handing someone somthing my feelings/emotions will have changed & i feel silly and a fraud. but i will try. i think it might be a good idea for me to actually start writing a journal, for my own benefit, like you said to monitor myself n keep track of emotions etc. but maybe i could discuss with my cpn about showing her it or something, but then again i will probs chicken out of bringing it up Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
icu_baby Posted March 28, 2008 Report Share Posted March 28, 2008 thx icu baby. good idea once again! but then i feel silly handing paper into lol. its difficult cos by the time it comes to handing someone somthing my feelings/emotions will have changed & i feel silly and a fraud. but i will try. i think it might be a good idea for me to actually start writing a journal, for my own benefit, like you said to monitor myself n keep track of emotions etc. but maybe i could discuss with my cpn about showing her it or something, but then again i will probs chicken out of bringing it upThis is exactly how I felt because when you are in the company of other people (esp if you like your T) your mood does lift and those feelings where you felt intense pain and loneliness disapears and when you read it you think to yourself "what was I thinking, life is not that bad". But the reality is that even though those feelings have gone for that moment you are with someone (reactive mood change) your feelings that you felt before, which you actually FREQUENTLY FEEL are REAL and are VALID. And they will come back and then you will regret not telling your CPN when those feelings do come back and without the right help they will.Just explain to your CPN this is how I was feeling at the time and how I often feel and that when you are with people you put a smile on your face and hide your true feelings because you don't want people to see you are suffering (have you ever heard of the smiling depressive, people who are depressed do have the ability to conceal their depression in front of people?). I was reading this journal article about how BPD can be subsumed as either bipolar or atypical depression and it looks like we share the same mood reactivity as those who suffer from atypical depression which according to wikipedia again "Atypical Depression (AD) is a subtype of dysthymia and Major Depression characterized by mood reactivity — being able to experience improved mood in response to positive events" before becoming depressed again.So either you are able to experience brief moments of improved mood in reaction to something good that happens or tell your CPN you are good at concealing your true emotions because you feel weak for showing your true emotions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brokenmind Posted March 28, 2008 Author Report Share Posted March 28, 2008 thanx once again ice baby. you are really of great help. reactive mood changes, i have these, you really have helped me understand more of bpd recently, so thank you. :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brokenmind Posted March 28, 2008 Author Report Share Posted March 28, 2008 thanx once again ice baby. you are really of great help. reactive mood changes, i have these, you really have helped me understand more of bpd recently, so thank you. :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vetty Posted March 29, 2008 Report Share Posted March 29, 2008 it is not easy, i agree, but there was a nurse on one of the wards i was on, who always said to me that if she were to ever have a mental illness, bpd would be her first choice, because it is the only mental illness that sufferers can recover 100% from.i never believed her at the time.however, after 7 very hard years as an inpatient on section, which have left me with various permanent scars in my body, my team say that i have 100% recovered.i will not lie, it is not easy, but boy, it really is soooo worthwhile. i still sit at home and think, wow life really doesn't get better than this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brokenmind Posted March 29, 2008 Author Report Share Posted March 29, 2008 thats really great vetty. well done you. but thats the first time i have ever heard bpd is 100% curable. all i've ever heard is that it is incurable! or that it becomes managable with proper treatment.especially i find that in the uk its bloody incurable as the help out there is bloody crap! the amount of times i have heard of people being turned away by MH services & told it is incurable. often they will not "waste" services on ppl with bpd. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
icu_baby Posted March 30, 2008 Report Share Posted March 30, 2008 it is not easy, i agree, but there was a nurse on one of the wards i was on, who always said to me that if she were to ever have a mental illness, bpd would be her first choice, because it is the only mental illness that sufferers can recover 100% from.i never believed her at the time.however, after 7 very hard years as an inpatient on section, which have left me with various permanent scars in my body, my team say that i have 100% recovered.i will not lie, it is not easy, but boy, it really is soooo worthwhile. i still sit at home and think, wow life really doesn't get better than this.Hi Vetty,Can you share some of the things you did to get better. Did you for example do DBT? Did you have a great interpersonal relationship with your Therapist?You say you were an inpatient for 7 years on a section. You don't mean a full seven years do you because usually the MH profession considers involuntary hospitalisation as being very stressful for people with BPD because it is triggering and leads to further self-harming and thus are usually only inpatients for 3-4 days.cheersicu_baby Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
foreverborderline Posted March 30, 2008 Report Share Posted March 30, 2008 Vetty I am happy for you that you are better but as far as I knew there is no cure for BPD, I have been looking for one for 16 years and I seem to get worse not better, keep in mind I am not on meds, live in a 3rd world country that does not reconize mental illness and have no care at all but in past I have been on hospital after hospital, med after med and doctor after doctor. I will not believe what that nurse said until I have some proof in me, all of the litature says that it is uncurable. Maybe God just is on your side.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
icu_baby Posted March 30, 2008 Report Share Posted March 30, 2008 There is a study that shows that after one year of DBT and 5 years out, 75 % of borderlines do not meet the criteria anymore. So you might still have 1 or 2 problem areas but you will no longer meet the criteria by having 5 or more of the 9 criteria. I think the study was on psychiatry online which is available on the internet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brokenmind Posted March 30, 2008 Author Report Share Posted March 30, 2008 i was told this by my cpn that after treatment you may no longer meet the criteria. but however is it not still there? like its there but we just know how to deal with it so it doesnt affect us. i dont know if that makes any sense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
denise24 Posted March 30, 2008 Report Share Posted March 30, 2008 Ive been told the same by health professionals. You need to take control, thats the only way of beating it. Im like, DONT YOU THINK IM TRYING?!?! Do I like to feel this way??? NO I DONT!! I am ment to be on medication, but it doesnt help at all. And now, when I try get my prescription, in my head its telling me not to get it!! I tell the phyciatrist this and he dismisses it!!! Gurrrrrrr Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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