nunorocks Posted May 12, 2008 Report Share Posted May 12, 2008 What do people think about the mental health bill? I've been too out of it for quite a while to worry about it, but am suddenly feeling really, really frightened about the whole thing. I'm not too compliant with my meds, so am a little worried about the 'new powers' that will be in the hands of people less qualified than I am (I have a Psych degree...) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mole Posted May 12, 2008 Report Share Posted May 12, 2008 Haven't heard anything about the new mental Health Bill ?I would be interested to know though.I know some people on incapacity benefit are being tested ( if thats the right word ) -if they don't get "ten Points', they are put back on Jobseekers allowance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
doormouse Posted May 12, 2008 Report Share Posted May 12, 2008 Funny you should mention it......This actually came up in a teaching session I was in the other week (In which I ended up saying things I shouldn't have done, and effectively "outing" myself to the consultant who was taking the teaching, which with this particular guy wasn't a disaster but.....Basically he made a flippant comment about people with PD's being let loose to commit murder, and I couldn't bring myslef to let that one go...)I'm far from well versed on the bill itself, but as I understand it, the main problem service user groups and others are having with it is that it would allow people with personality disorders to be detained under the new mental health act, even if they had not actually done anything that warranted it - ie caused harm to themselves on anyone else. Basically the problem that they are trying to address is that a PD is not classed as a mental illness, so technically, you cannot be sectioned for having a PD - at least not on paper. We all know that every very occasional once in a while, somebody, who happens to have a personality disorder, commits a terrible crime where people get hurt, and then the media get hold of the story, and it turns out that this person was discharged into the community because there was no legal way of keeping them in hospital, even if they were thought to be a risk to others, because they had not in fact done anything - yet!So we have two issues - First that even those who are thought to have a psychopathy type PD cannot be detained for their own safety or that of others if they have not actually endangered themselves or others. Second, that if the new bill comes in, technically, anyone with a PD could be detained under the mental health act, even if they had not done anything wrong. So in theory, somebody could march onto my ward and remove me from my work on the grounds that I was a danger to my patients without needing any evidence of this. The chances of that sort of thing happening are pretty slim - but what it would come down to, if the bill goes through, would be the clincial judgement of the pyschiatrist, and we know that some are more attuned to PD's and understanding what BPD actually is, than others. Any clinical judgement of any doctor has to be legally defensible in a court of law, adn there are all sorts of complx rules and precedents as to what we can and can't do, but as for me - I am a little concerned that there would be no precedents here, and that those who needed long term hospitalisation wouldn't neccessarily get it, and people who shouldn't be kept in hospital against their will might be....Anyway...sorry for the ramble..thats my take on it!Mouse Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kib0ne Posted May 12, 2008 Report Share Posted May 12, 2008 The Mental Health Act 2007 Amendments?I'm really not happy about the opening of the Approved role to all Mental Health Practitioners; mainly for the reasons that Social Workers supposedly bring a more social perspective to the table and I worry about medical hierarchies and how that might stand in the way of a nurse challenging a doctor in the best interests of a patient. Also I don't particularly understand the workability of the the Responsible Medical Officer role being opened to Responsible Clinician... since a crash course isn't on the SW training curriculum and I don't think it's included in the 60 day ASW training either. I don't really know what you mean by less qualified though and NOW, the primary SW qualification has only recently been made a degree. There are some amendments I like to the Act though like Appropriate Treatment and the Nearest Relative stuff, can you see any positives? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CharcoalKiss Posted May 13, 2008 Report Share Posted May 13, 2008 The mental health act reclassifies a 'mental disorder' as any disorder of the mind - which includes personality disorders, and also some learning disabilities. They've dropped the 'treatability' test which went with the original act in 1983 - this stated that involuntary hospitalisation could only be forced on someone if they're condition was treatable, something which didn't cover personality disorders as they were not considered to be treatable, only manageable. The government has also generated its own definition of a 'Dangerous Personality Disorder' which they have called DASPD (Dangerous AntiSocial Personality Disorder) which covers people considered to be a 'danger to the public' although this is not actually a recognised mental disorder and is not law or diagnostic criteria. The act is concerned with the safety of the general public, and violates some human rights of people living with what the government considers to be 'dangerous' conditions..... i have just spent a considerable while studying this act for my degree so i could go on. But i won't. There are some things that this act incorporates - such as increased training for cpns and increased awareness for the public - that are positive. Although the intentions are slightly twisted. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kib0ne Posted May 13, 2008 Report Share Posted May 13, 2008 The government have had their own little label of Dangerous Personality Disorder for yeeeeaaaars.I think it's a disgrace, but this is far too serious to be talking about on my birthday. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yorkiegal73 Posted May 13, 2008 Report Share Posted May 13, 2008 happy birthday KibI thought the treatability test had been dropped some time ago, or do they just section us on the depression or mania that goes alongside BPD? This new draft seems to have been stuck in the system for years now. It is possible to email the minister responsible for mental health issues if you go to the government website. Whether or not he'd take any notice...? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nunorocks Posted May 13, 2008 Author Report Share Posted May 13, 2008 Hmmmm... Food for thought indeed. I can't help feeling that the bad outweighs the good, but I am prone to pessimism. But thanks for replies - I hadn't really stopped to consider the positives, I've been stuck in a glooooooom cloud for too long. How much training are these professionals going to get? I heard a rumour that occupational therapists are going to have input as mental health professionals - does art therapy now carry the risk of sectioning if the therapist doesn't like the picture or interpretation - exactly how far does it all go? And what if the psychiatrist just plain has a grudge (they're only human, right?...) But now I'm rambling......Just wanted to say 'hi' and 'nice to meet you all'. And thanks for the chat - it helps. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mole Posted May 13, 2008 Report Share Posted May 13, 2008 I had some counsellin' with an Occupational Therapist - the first counsellin' I'd had in twenty yearsShe was really good - helped me sort out my fears Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jonny inter Posted May 13, 2008 Report Share Posted May 13, 2008 i am no expert on this, i have heard of this bill, but how far can it go?. surely every one in the country at sometime or other suffered from bpd, just feeling down or losing your temper can all be classed as mental illness. could they section you if you are just having a bad day?. take heart they cant lock us all up. i apologise if i sound flippant, but i am tired of this government telling me how to live my life, :angry: whoops better be careful. please dont tell on me. i was going to add my conspiracy theory but that would get me locked up. take care everyone Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
doormouse Posted May 13, 2008 Report Share Posted May 13, 2008 I thought the treatability test had been dropped some time ago, or do they just section us on the depression or mania that goes alongside BPD?Technically, that is pretty much how it works at the moment - if you have a diagnosis of BPD and are sectioned, you are not sectioned because you have BPD, you would be sectioned for the treatable symptoms of it, such as depression, mania, SH or whatever.As for what training health profesionals would get, I don't know exactly what the bill says, but working in the health service I wouldn't be too confident personally. Basic medical training in psychiatry is really really poor - you get four weeks in med school, and that can be about it - some people, like OT's can be really good, and really aware, and I'm come across a few who work as keyworkers in mental health and social care. I guess my fear would be that, as there is now, there would be a huge variation in the levels of training and the standards of care, but all these people, regardless of their capability, would have these new powers. Perhaps continuous on the job assesment of people working with patients with BPD, by experts in the field, would be the only way to ensure that everyone is treated fairl, legally and "correctly," but I can't see that being workable.Flippin' politicians..... for all I know - and probably for all they know - their definition of "dangerous PD" could include the lot od us. I guess they'd have to have had an "expert" come up with it in the first place, but I'd be very interested to know who that was...Mousex Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yorkiegal73 Posted May 16, 2008 Report Share Posted May 16, 2008 I suppose the up side to this is that if we were all included under the definition of 'dangerous PD' they'd have nowhere to put us all. Start worrying if the government starts buying up old ships and converting them to hospitals. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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