Being Validated

[hummm_mabbe]

Hullo

I am learning more and more about me and my bippidee (hee sounds like a film with Julie Andrews in it) and the one thing that REALLY came up for me wuz that, when I felt really sad or especially angry, I wasnt allowed to let it out. My mum would get all up in my face like "uh uh homeboy dont gimme that crudola, cuz thatsw how your father talks to me and uh uh dont talk to me like that in that tone of voice etc", my dad would just be like "dont be a poof" and my sister kinna enjoyed me suffering, si like no one would listen to how I was feelin.

They would do stuff like, if I was upset at them, they would tell me that I was wrong to feel that way, that I was pathetic, weak, spoilt, selfish and that what was really happenin was something else and I should listen to them, or I was selfish and bad for showing any emotions to them etc, but of course if they got pissed I was evil and bad and had to take their shazznatting on my loafy no matter what, fuckers.

I read that with the Piddees (not just the bippidee but all of em), an invalidating family environment is always the common thread, not having your emotions heard and having to squash them down cuza shame, guilt or being hit / shoutied at. They are like, abuse (sexie type and physical / emotional type) happens in 75% of the bippidees, but behind that abuse is the same invaildating thingie ... and of course if you cant talk about the abuse and let the emotions out, then it ends up even bigger, so they reckon that invalidation itself can lead to the bippidees, but when you add abusey stuff (bastamards) thats when the sypmtoms get really iffy and poo.

Do you chappies and chickies identify with that? Were you allowed to express your emotionabubbles and not made to feel guilty / stupid / evil about them, or did you just have to keep your mouthtrap shut when you felt bad or you would get shamed / guilted / hit?

Ta

Rossie

[Nixie]

As I got into my teens I wasn't allowed to develop my own opinions, especially about politics, religion, etc. I would hear "We didn't raise you to think that!" or "You keep talking about wanting to be happy... You know there are a lot more important things than your happiness, like your family!!" Ugh. Plus being bullied (emotionally and physically) at school at the same time, not a good combination.

I definitely agree that not being validated growing up will stunt your emotional growth, especially if there's some sort of abuse there too, even if it's from two different sources. I just never felt good enough for anyone. This sounds really depressing, sorry, but it's all true.

[hummm_mabbe]

As I got into my teens I wasn't allowed to develop my own opinions, especially about politics, religion, etc. I would hear "We didn't raise you to think that!" or "You keep talking about wanting to be happy... You know there are a lot more important things than your happiness, like your family!!" Ugh. Plus being bullied (emotionally and physically) at school at the same time, not a good combination.

I definitely agree that not being validated growing up will stunt your emotional growth, especially if there's some sort of abuse there too, even if it's from two different sources. I just never felt good enough for anyone. This sounds really depressing, sorry, but it's all true.

Hey that made me think sumthin ... I was tellin my therapist about somethin and I said that too "sorry this is depressing" .. and she said "Did you realise that you are invalidating YOURSELF?". I kinna went, "oh holy shneekies, yeah I am!". She told me that when you grow up with it, it becomes part of you, and you do it automatically. So like with us Bippidees, we have these emotional needs that arent getting met, but we cant make ourselves ASK for them, we know we need somthin but dont know what it is or how to get it, and thats why we feel so desperate all the time, cuz we want peepul to go "hey I wanna hear u". But cuz we invalidate oursleves, we dont even know that we can just ask for our emotions to be heard, and get nice things from peepulz ... we just kinna hope somoneone will figure it out and give it to us. Tis also why when a nice person comes along who is all kind and giving, we go "OHMIGOD I LIKE TOTALLY LOVE YOU, YOU ARE THE ANGEL DAVE from cloud number 33a"

This is what Im learnin to change in my therapy with my super validating (and rather cuddlesome) therapist

[Nixie]

Thanks for pointing that out! I seem to have a serious guilt problem and think that everything from climate change to the war in Iraq is somehow my fault. And I do know what you mean by the "OMIGOD OMIGOD!! I LOVE YOU!!" if someone understands you and the "Well get stuffed!" if they don't love you.

I'm only just starting to figure all this out as my Bippidee diagnosis was hidden from me until a few days ago. None of this thinking or behaviour is new to me because I've been living it, it's just new to me that other people feel so similar to the way I do. :unsure:

[loulou1330]

i think you've highlighted something as you say is common amongst most bpd sufferers the invalidation thing for me i was the eldest child first daughter first granddaughter and child of the favoured one so there were sooooo many expectations that werent all necessarily spoken outloud but i felt them none the less have never felt like i met any of them and whenever i tried to express how all these people were making me feel was the old addage 'should be seen n not heard' even when i grew into a supposed adult it never changed which i hated cos coming from a humungous family i felt like i was always being singled out to NOT be heard or noticed and if i tried to push the point i was made to feel like oh well thats just you and the way you are its not really important how you feel.

It never got any easier and it seemed the harder i tried to do the right thing the worse off i was so i just gave up in the end and when i was old enough and in a position to i just cut myself off from them and you know what they've never bothered with me since. At first it was put down to my mh illnesses but now i know from other people they treat it as if im dead how invalidated does that make me feel ... a whole heap but at the end of the day shitty as i may feel or whatever i have to believe it is them that is worse off for not having me in their lives cos how small are they that they cant recognise that they made some one feel so bad they'd rather be dead than be this nothing that they continually dismiss

[hummm_mabbe]

i think you've highlighted something as you say is common amongst most bpd sufferers the invalidation thing for me i was the eldest child first daughter first granddaughter and child of the favoured one so there were sooooo many expectations that werent all necessarily spoken outloud but i felt them none the less have never felt like i met any of them and whenever i tried to express how all these people were making me feel was the old addage 'should be seen n not heard' even when i grew into a supposed adult it never changed which i hated cos coming from a humungous family i felt like i was always being singled out to NOT be heard or noticed and if i tried to push the point i was made to feel like oh well thats just you and the way you are its not really important how you feel.

It never got any easier and it seemed the harder i tried to do the right thing the worse off i was so i just gave up in the end and when i was old enough and in a position to i just cut myself off from them and you know what they've never bothered with me since. At first it was put down to my mh illnesses but now i know from other people they treat it as if im dead how invalidated does that make me feel ... a whole heap but at the end of the day shitty as i may feel or whatever i have to believe it is them that is worse off for not having me in their lives cos how small are they that they cant recognise that they made some one feel so bad they'd rather be dead than be this nothing that they continually dismiss

thank u loulou, that was really honest and musta smarted a iccle bit to bring up ... soo huggee at u for that Its like sum peepul think that theres not enough love to go round or sumthin and if you give some away theres less for you or sum silly reasoning like that ... im sorry that you felt like that too, tis poopely.

Im really fascinated to see if this is a really common thingie with peepulz with the Bippidee, I really hope more folkie folks reply to this! I think mabbe I made the topic title dead borin or sumthin and scared peepul off ... wish it was possible to edit after peepul reply ... Oh wellz.

HEY OVER HERE BIPPIDEE PEEPUL Free cakes and stuff.

Ross

[walker]

couldnt resist offer of free cake

Totally have the whole guilt thing and not feeling loved - even though home was not abusive at all.

But loads of rowin (quiet of course).

Really identify with the 'seen not heard' thingy.

For years have felt bad because I am too loud, attention seeking, show off,

Still get told to be quiet - talk quietly - when am with parents- and each time feels like a shot in the heart.

Also - bad to feel angry, jealous,

Own opinions always dismissed as those of others, or wrong

'People aren't interested in you, they have their own lives to lead' - How many millions of times has that echoed through my head. Even makes me cry as I type it.

I get loud almost instantly, if I dont think somene is listening - want to scream in their faces - LISTEN AND HEAR ME.

Also as yongest - always blamed if something got broken, spilt or lost.

Any thing bad? Must be her - must be her fault.

Yer, pile all the c**p on my shoulders and let me carry it around for decades.

You guys are so great though

[hummm_mabbe]

couldnt resist offer of free cake

Totally have the whole guilt thing and not feeling loved - even though home was not abusive at all.

But loads of rowin (quiet of course).

Really identify with the 'seen not heard' thingy.

For years have felt bad because I am too loud, attention seeking, show off,

Still get told to be quiet - talk quietly - when am with parents- and each time feels like a shot in the heart.

Also - bad to feel angry, jealous,

Own opinions always dismissed as those of others, or wrong

'People aren't interested in you, they have their own lives to lead' - How many millions of times has that echoed through my head. Even makes me cry as I type it.

I get loud almost instantly, if I dont think somene is listening - want to scream in their faces - LISTEN AND HEAR ME.

Also as yongest - always blamed if something got broken, spilt or lost.

Any thing bad? Must be her - must be her fault.

Yer, pile all the c**p on my shoulders and let me carry it around for decades.

You guys are so great though

I sooo identify with that Walker ... I could feel my shoulders tensing and my jaw clenching as I read it! How can peepul be so ... ugh DUMB? Well actually I wanna say nastier things than that but I dont wanna be rood about your folkie folks mmmk

But wow to hear it still happens NOW??? Ohmigod, what is up with them? I had to fianlly see that my family was never gonna change, and its taken AGES to start to separate from them. There was this sense of "maybe eventually everything will be perfect and the life I always wanted" .. now I see that I had to let that go. I got SO ANGRY when my therapist said that ... but I think when I sent the letter to my mum telling her exactly what i thought, that was when the apron strings got cut a bit. I felt more able to take in therapy, and now I totally wub my therapist to bits!! yeh oh yeh

I REALLY HOPE that you can do that too Missie W, you are a special, lovely person inside who deserves lots of warmth, holding and understanding, and to be heard. You have sooo much to say and its important. Im glad that you feel able to say it all online, especially writin songs and stuffenstuff .. bippideebobbidee boo. Lol. Yeh but like that is stuck in my head now so umm pick sumthin less catchy next time okies? Mabbe a tune by Bach. Or Rammstein

Rossie

PS I am getting forum addiction. Time to go to beddie!! Night nigght lovely peeps <3

[skylace]

I used to bottle up my emotions when I was younger because I felt like I couldnt talk to anyone/wouldnt be heard. At the time my mum was suffering with depression so I felt bad for feeling that way but had sooo much anger inside which I kept hidden - only for it to re-emerge years later. Even now my family refuse to believe there is anything wrong with me. I get comments like "you have nothing to be depressed about", been accused of faking it, copying my mum and just nasty remarks. Makes me feel like a bloody fraud and tis not v helpful

[walker]

Had horrid dream recently - very quick -

In room with mum and dad

trying to explain

mum said (sort of condescending)

'oh yes I know - we took it all way from you - but it wasnt as bad as you make out'

I walk out

Cant remember exact words - but INSTANT feeling that I Had to DIE

Struck me like a knife - woke me up

Few words but such impossible pain.

Cant get it out of my head

Not accepted, believed or understood - so must die.

A split second, that shook me to my core

[Warrior Princess]

Hey again Ross,

I think with me it wasn't so much that my family was "mean" but more that they didn't understand where I was coming from when I became very down and suicidal in my early teens. It's a scary thin for a parent, so their response was "I don't be so silly" when I expressed my downward emotions. When the anger came out, well no one knows how to deal with a teen who smashes things so it's understandable that they disswaded (can't spell it) this emotion.

Anyway yes my emotions were often invalidated at home and at school but with my parents I don't relaly blame them. Kin dof understand now that I have my own teens, but when one of them expressed a desire to just die I responded differently than Mum did because I was ble to come at it from a different perspective. Hopefully I did the right thing.

*deep sigh*

WP aka Paine Warrior.

[Pynn]

Wow... This really struck a chord with me!

Same with me: invalidation in childhood --> now invalidation by self.

I still don't talk about what is in my head, I just don't do it. I can't get the words out, not even to really close friends who literally ASK me what is going on, why I feel depressed/what I feel. I just say to myself; I'll be an attention seeker, they will think I just need to shut up and get over it, you shouldn't be whining about unimportant stuff like that, etc.

It just hit me, I just never say what I feel when it's about myself.

My dad is always pissed off because of this, because every time he asks me how my day was, and how things are with me, I just say 'great!'. Even when I feel completely shit and am struggling to deal with things eg. school.

I think this is a bit reason for my Sh. whenever I felt so many emotions, so much hurt, I wouldn't go and talk to somebody about it, no I'd feel it and feel it, until it filled me up completely, had nowhere to go and then take it out on myself.

Meh :(

[fastfish]

Hey Rossie

I was just talking about this to someone else this morning. So many times I am seen as 'attention seeking'. I do things because I can't cope with my emotions. Those things are normally self harming or destructive to me in some way or other. That is so often seen as attention seeking by others isn't it? I was explaining to a friend this morning that the counsellor i have at the moment is really good because i go from one week to the next without barely even thinking about when my next appointment is. In the past when i've had counselling i've counted down the hours until the next appointment let alone the days! I think the difference is that my current counsellor really validates my feelings. She listens to me properly and tells me that what I am feeling is important. She doesn't just sit there and repeats back to me what I've said. She actively tells me that what i'm feeling is important and it is real and i'm not making it up. This has resulted in my weekly session in being enough to get me through the week to the next session. I feel held by her during the week even when i'm not there. I do less destructive activities now if any at all. I still have emotions and feelings i can't cope with and they just excruiciatingly hurt. But somehow more often or not i get through it without hurting myself in some other way. I think validation is THE MOST important thing for someone with BPD. Not having had that validation is what prob caused it in the first place.

Alice x

[Ulrica]

I'm going to stick out here a little... I come from a very validating home environment. My parents were always adamant to let us children know that we could talk to them about anything (they still are but have recognized I'm not one for talking much so they often leave me to it) or not talk if that is what we wanted. My dad is a little reserved whilst my younger sister and mum are open with their feelings and my older sister is somewhere in between. I never had any high demands put on me, but rather my parents always tried to lower my own demands on myself, telling me it's okay to not be the best all the time, and we will love you no matter what grades you get (my teacher wanted to move me up a grade when I was 8 but mum said no since she wanted me to stay with my friends, only found out about this a few years ago). I remember once when I was about 17 and got ONE mistake on a Physics test and came home in tears because I felt like a failure. My mum said it's okay to not be the best all the time. My parents are also very loving and they're still happily married. I was apparently a very beautiful baby and got lots of attention when I was very young. I also got attention as I got older so that's never lacked. They're physical and loving towards each other too. Now the thing is, I remember from a very young age not feeling comfortable when people hugged me and things. And I have never been very good with my feelings and I don't really know why. I had OCD tendencies already when I was about four or five (my mum has told me this) but the funny thing is there is no history of MH problems in my family, whatsoever.

I guess I just wanted to show that even if you coming from a loving home, with a validating environment you can still get fucked up in the head with BPD...

[hummm_mabbe]

I'm going to stick out here a little... I come from a very validating home environment. My parents were always adamant to let us children know that we could talk to them about anything (they still are but have recognized I'm not one for talking much so they often leave me to it) or not talk if that is what we wanted. My dad is a little reserved whilst my younger sister and mum are open with their feelings and my older sister is somewhere in between. I never had any high demands put on me, but rather my parents always tried to lower my own demands on myself, telling me it's okay to not be the best all the time, and we will love you no matter what grades you get (my teacher wanted to move me up a grade when I was 8 but mum said no since she wanted me to stay with my friends, only found out about this a few years ago). I remember once when I was about 17 and got ONE mistake on a Physics test and came home in tears because I felt like a failure. My mum said it's okay to not be the best all the time. My parents are also very loving and they're still happily married. I was apparently a very beautiful baby and got lots of attention when I was very young. I also got attention as I got older so that's never lacked. They're physical and loving towards each other too. Now the thing is, I remember from a very young age not feeling comfortable when people hugged me and things. And I have never been very good with my feelings and I don't really know why. I had OCD tendencies already when I was about four or five (my mum has told me this) but the funny thing is there is no history of MH problems in my family, whatsoever.

I guess I just wanted to show that even if you coming from a loving home, with a validating environment you can still get fucked up in the head with BPD...

Having said that, scientist duders have identified that a small % of peepulz with the bippidee have it due to biology. Its something like 15% of peepul with it!

Not to say that any of what you typied isnt true, but it made me think of a lot of things Id read about bippidee and the other PD's ... did you get validation, or did you get praise? Validation is eg when you are angry, you are allowed to express that anger even if parents dont like it. They wil listen to you, attempt to understand why you are angry and then try to soothe you and redirect you. Its like, no matter what your emotions are - good, bad, indifferent, you are allowed to have them, they are understood and recognised and SOOTHED and you dont have to hide them for fear of seeming imperfect, bad or of 'putting upon' a parent who for one reason or another you feel u must protect them from your emotions. Eg a mum who seems weak or unhappy and u feel u must look after her. A mum who cant respond sensitively or accurately to a babbee will cause it to have anxious attachment to its mommie.

Prasie and attention are not the same as validation. I was always told I was clever and would go far, and that I was handsome, but at the same time I wasnt allowed to express anger, joy, energy, my opinions ... I was made to feel "that wasnt how I was supposed to behave". Being told you are pretty or clever a lot is praise, not validation. If you were already feeling uncomfy about contact with people early, that suggests an "anxious or avoidant attachment style" (read stuff from Mr Bowlby). This comes from a mom who is not able to accurately reflect back a babies emotions at them, or is overwhelmed by the babies feelings/ crying.

Many people that were in fact invalidated report a home envirnment that had praise and they remember as loving, but in fact acceptance of all emotions and the freedom of the child to be who they were did not exist. OCD tendencies are normally seen in people that have an avoidant attachment style. Validation is very subtle - its not the same as being cuddled, being praised or given attention. Sometimes chids can feel like, even when they are told they are loved no matter what, they may SEE that its only when they are clever, or only when they are pretty, that they actually get that attention, and so they feel always that they have to earn it. My mum has told me one thing and then told me another every time I talk to her - effectively, she lies to me to make me recall what she wants me to recall about my past, and when I used to feel guilty about making her upset by talking about my problems, accepting her version of events was easier than really finding out what happened. I used to tell me therapists that my childhood was fine, when in fact it wasnt, although at the time I didnt actually want to ask myself if that was true.

I got all scientific there so internet pixie language went oota tha window.

[nomad2020]

I'm shy so I'm giving the abridged version . I've used I don't know to get around expressing myself for a good while now. It's not always that I don't want to talk about it either. Sometimes I just don't know. I can't blame them for giving me crap about it though. the answer to "why don't you go to school" shouldn't be "I don't know". And here I am again years later with the same problem, just different environment. I still don't communicate my issues to my family because I am tired of hearing the "well just suck it up" speech.

[Tray]

i guess i always felt like i wasnt good enuf, well gettin kicked at aged 2 kinda does that to you!

i always felt i didnt fit in, my grandparents raised me and i was always away that they were older and wanted quite, so i was quite, never asked for anything, kept everythin inside. I remember waking up in pain when i was real young and not waking anyone cause i didnt feel important enuf to do that. i just put my lamp on and read. i always use to, if i woke early i would read, when i got home from schol go straight to my room.

i could never ask for hugs,i never got them. even now i have trouble asking for love, i can sometimes with my BF, but i get so claustraphobic sometimes when he touches me, im just not use to that kind of attention.

everythin i did at school, never got praised, everythin i didnt do, never got told off, i pretty much just got ignored, and still i do...

my mom and half sister are my new best friends at the mo, since i got preg, i dont know why, cause when the baby is born they aint gettin a look in... they aint wanted me for the last 32 years, too late to start now... just wish i was strong enuf to tell them that

[Ulrica]

I'm going to stick out here a little... I come from a very validating home environment. My parents were always adamant to let us children know that we could talk to them about anything (they still are but have recognized I'm not one for talking much so they often leave me to it) or not talk if that is what we wanted. My dad is a little reserved whilst my younger sister and mum are open with their feelings and my older sister is somewhere in between. I never had any high demands put on me, but rather my parents always tried to lower my own demands on myself, telling me it's okay to not be the best all the time, and we will love you no matter what grades you get (my teacher wanted to move me up a grade when I was 8 but mum said no since she wanted me to stay with my friends, only found out about this a few years ago). I remember once when I was about 17 and got ONE mistake on a Physics test and came home in tears because I felt like a failure. My mum said it's okay to not be the best all the time. My parents are also very loving and they're still happily married. I was apparently a very beautiful baby and got lots of attention when I was very young. I also got attention as I got older so that's never lacked. They're physical and loving towards each other too. Now the thing is, I remember from a very young age not feeling comfortable when people hugged me and things. And I have never been very good with my feelings and I don't really know why. I had OCD tendencies already when I was about four or five (my mum has told me this) but the funny thing is there is no history of MH problems in my family, whatsoever.

I guess I just wanted to show that even if you coming from a loving home, with a validating environment you can still get fucked up in the head with BPD...

Having said that, scientist duders have identified that a small % of peepulz with the bippidee have it due to biology. Its something like 15% of peepul with it!

Not to say that any of what you typied isnt true, but it made me think of a lot of things Id read about bippidee and the other PD's ... did you get validation, or did you get praise? Validation is eg when you are angry, you are allowed to express that anger even if parents dont like it. They wil listen to you, attempt to understand why you are angry and then try to soothe you and redirect you. Its like, no matter what your emotions are - good, bad, indifferent, you are allowed to have them, they are understood and recognised and SOOTHED and you dont have to hide them for fear of seeming imperfect, bad or of 'putting upon' a parent who for one reason or another you feel u must protect them from your emotions. Eg a mum who seems weak or unhappy and u feel u must look after her. A mum who cant respond sensitively or accurately to a babbee will cause it to have anxious attachment to its mommie.

Prasie and attention are not the same as validation. I was always told I was clever and would go far, and that I was handsome, but at the same time I wasnt allowed to express anger, joy, energy, my opinions ... I was made to feel "that wasnt how I was supposed to behave". Being told you are pretty or clever a lot is praise, not validation. If you were already feeling uncomfy about contact with people early, that suggests an "anxious or avoidant attachment style" (read stuff from Mr Bowlby). This comes from a mom who is not able to accurately reflect back a babies emotions at them, or is overwhelmed by the babies feelings/ crying.

Many people that were in fact invalidated report a home envirnment that had praise and they remember as loving, but in fact acceptance of all emotions and the freedom of the child to be who they were did not exist. OCD tendencies are normally seen in people that have an avoidant attachment style. Validation is very subtle - its not the same as being cuddled, being praised or given attention. Sometimes chids can feel like, even when they are told they are loved no matter what, they may SEE that its only when they are clever, or only when they are pretty, that they actually get that attention, and so they feel always that they have to earn it. My mum has told me one thing and then told me another every time I talk to her - effectively, she lies to me to make me recall what she wants me to recall about my past, and when I used to feel guilty about making her upset by talking about my problems, accepting her version of events was easier than really finding out what happened. I used to tell me therapists that my childhood was fine, when in fact it wasnt, although at the time I didnt actually want to ask myself if that was true.

I got all scientific there so internet pixie language went oota tha window.

Hmm, you have given me something to think about there. I'll have to process it and get back to you on it, what you say does make some sense but needs reworking in me little brain first...

[hummm_mabbe]

Hmm, you have given me something to think about there. I'll have to process it and get back to you on it, what you say does make some sense but needs reworking in me little brain first...

Hullo Missie Swedey pants

What did you find in yer brainie? Dont have to anser if ya dont want, cuz its all personal and that You might wanna read a bookie called "The drama of being a child" and also "Thou shalt not be aware" by Alice Miller. Both dead good and that.

Sorry for calling you miss swedey pants, I barely know you so I should be a proper gent but heh Im not Im a bit of an essex boy to be honest, even though im from surrey.

Today I am mostly babbling

[wednesday]

I've also read quite a bit about pds. As it appears to me, a pd arises when the characteristics of the child and the environment combined result in the person's needs not being met. In bpd, the child feels that their needs are not met due them being somehow 'different' (and not in a good way). This is invalidating in itself because the child needs something which the parents (by their actions) are saying, is not needed.

Most researchers seem to link bpd with insecure attachment. In theory, you could come from a very good background but because of your biological predisposition, you could still feel your needs were not met.

[hummm_mabbe]

I've also read quite a bit about pds. As it appears to me, a pd arises when the characteristics of the child and the environment combined result in the person's needs not being met. In bpd, the child feels that their needs are not met due them being somehow 'different' (and not in a good way). This is invalidating in itself because the child needs something which the parents (by their actions) are saying, is not needed.

Most researchers seem to link bpd with insecure attachment. In theory, you could come from a very good background but because of your biological predisposition, you could still feel your needs were not met.

Hmmz yeah I read that too, though its very controversial. There are two 'camps' on it, and the ones that claim the bio disposition are accused of being apologists by the others. This is becuz reserach shows that even if you are bornded with a bio dispoition, the right handling of the child by the parents will stop any bad stuff happening. However so many people protest at being told they brought their kids up badly that its soothing to hear that a biological disposition was the reason. Actually no Peepulz, you stil screwed up cuz you shoulda got helpie on how to look after your more 'labile' chiddler. (Research where 'labile' identical twins were split at birth, and one put into a low-coping family and one into a high-coping family show that the second babster didnt get the bippidee, but the first one did. Thats just one example of many thoisands).

I was a dead quiet little chid. Never cried or made a fuss. My temperament was rock soild, until I hit 2, and me mum had had the chance to turn me into an ambivalently attached freakazoid and set me little ballie ball rolling along BPD avenue. If you wanna get some more info on this, have a readie of "The Drama of Being a Child" or "Why Love matters" and you will see that the bio disposition camp has been losing ground for some time - I agree with the 'apologists' claim meselfie.

Many folkie folks with the bippidee arent at the stage to accept that mabbe their parents WERE to blame, and instead prefer to blame themseleves. 'I was a bad kid; I had a bad tempereament; I made them angry at me; It was my fault my mum couldnt listen to me'. These are common thoughts in the bippidee, and these peepul blamin the bio disposition just give everyone an 'out' - the parents who were too weak to cope, and the poor sufferer of the bippidee who really needs to be able to accept that their parents DID screw up in order to move on and heal. Thats the biggest part of overcoming tha bippidee, and its the biggest challenge to any therapist. Most peepul dont want to blame the parents - especially if doing so makes em feel guilty, afraid or evil.

I say flush the bio disposition theory down tha toilet. It may be true that babbies are born with different temperaments, but all the research now coming out shows that the right kind of love given at the right time can overcome it. Parental incompetency, or abuse, is the much larger - and controllable - factor, so thats what NEEDS to be worked on, not excuses. The bio thing is half there only so they can sell us more druggie drugs anyhoo, like the NHS needed anymore excuses not to invest in the long term therapy that bippidee's NEED.

Not bein mean to you Wednesday, this is jus a topic that gets me haemoglobin all a-steamie and so got all the bookie wooks I could. Even books by evolutionary biology writers such as Matt Ridley agree. Nature is only a base - the right nurture will win out.,

heh rant over

[Ulrica]

Hmm, you have given me something to think about there. I'll have to process it and get back to you on it, what you say does make some sense but needs reworking in me little brain first...

Hullo Missie Swedey pants

What did you find in yer brainie? Dont have to anser if ya dont want, cuz its all personal and that You might wanna read a bookie called "The drama of being a child" and also "Thou shalt not be aware" by Alice Miller. Both dead good and that.

Sorry for calling you miss swedey pants, I barely know you so I should be a proper gent but heh Im not Im a bit of an essex boy to be honest, even though im from surrey.

Today I am mostly babbling

I don't mind being called Missie Swedey Pants, I quite like it actually

I thought about it and spoke to a couple of very close friends. I was seen and heard as a child, but even though I was I could never open my mouth to speak. For as long as I can remember I've never been good at talking about my feelings. I don't have an answer as to why no matter how much I rack my brain. I had OCD tendencies before I even started school. Dunno know why that is either. My two sisters are both mentally well and stable people, as are my parents. Guess I' just a bit messed in the head :P

[hummm_mabbe]

Hmm, you have given me something to think about there. I'll have to process it and get back to you on it, what you say does make some sense but needs reworking in me little brain first...

Hullo Missie Swedey pants

What did you find in yer brainie? Dont have to anser if ya dont want, cuz its all personal and that You might wanna read a bookie called "The drama of being a child" and also "Thou shalt not be aware" by Alice Miller. Both dead good and that.

Sorry for calling you miss swedey pants, I barely know you so I should be a proper gent but heh Im not Im a bit of an essex boy to be honest, even though im from surrey.

Today I am mostly babbling

I don't mind being called Missie Swedey Pants, I quite like it actually

I thought about it and spoke to a couple of very close friends. I was seen and heard as a child, but even though I was I could never open my mouth to speak. For as long as I can remember I've never been good at talking about my feelings. I don't have an answer as to why no matter how much I rack my brain. I had OCD tendencies before I even started school. Dunno know why that is either. My two sisters are both mentally well and stable people, as are my parents. Guess I' just a bit messed in the head

Awweeez

are you gettin therapized yet? Mabbe they can figure out what the difference was for you and your siblings. My sister turned out ok cuz she was treated differently. I wqas expected to be the superstar from birth so I wasnt allowed a personality, whereas me sister was. So I got the bippidee, and she didnt.

Were you the youngest? Did you get much crapstuff off your siblings at all?

[hummm_mabbe]

Akchallie readin this back I am comin across like a right ol opinionated wangster, touch o the narcy sod in me, sorry folkies.

I has got such a gobbie gob on me. **applies duct tape to gobbie gob**

[Ulrica]

I don't mind you being opinionated at all, I actually find it refreshing! I'd say keep it up!

Actually, I'm a middle child. My parents had pretty much the same expectations on us (spoken a lot to my parents about family/childhood stuff recently to try and see where all my problems started).

I have been in therapy in total for about five years. Also had my family with me to some sessions. The therapists and doctors are always baffled at the fact that I had a good childhood and that there is no history of MH problems in my family or amongst my relatives. Yup, I am the only one a tad screwed in the head :P