Being Validated

[jenga]

Well, I cannot resist throwing in my two cents here. Without question I was completely invalidated as a kid, and it still continues to this day. Yes, I think I was probably born with a somewhat emotional personality, but I know that my troubles escalated due to this invalidation. For example, my son has my same temperament, but he was raised by me, not my mother. I have given him unconditional love and support from Day one, and because of that, he has had a much easier time of things and has a good sense of self worth and belonging.

I am 48 years old and remember one hug from my mother, and that was when my father died. I have no memories of her as a child..and in fact feel like I was left to grow up on my own. I have discussed this in therapy. When you grow up like this, you learn not to trust your feelings, and you have no reassurance that they are ok. You don't learn the skills you need, you can't feel secure. I was always described as emotional and needy. Well, gee, isn't it your job to be needy when you are a kid? You are a kid!

I spent many years looking for attention in all of the wrong ways and places. Many years in and out of therapy, on and off meds.

So I won't bore you with all the details, but to this day, my mother will not validate anything I say. If she asks how I am, she doesn't really want to know, and she will cut me off. If I say, well, actually I am not doing well, she says well, I can't do anything about that! and then changes the subject. I am finally starting to stop expecting anything different from her, though it still angers and saddens me so much that I cannot stand it sometimes! Mostly now I am trying to limit any future impact she can have on me, and I avoid contact as much as possible. The one good thing in all of this is that I have broken the cycle with my own children.

[hummm_mabbe]

Well, I cannot resist throwing in my two cents here. Without question I was completely invalidated as a kid, and it still continues to this day. Yes, I think I was probably born with a somewhat emotional personality, but I know that my troubles escalated due to this invalidation. For example, my son has my same temperament, but he was raised by me, not my mother. I have given him unconditional love and support from Day one, and because of that, he has had a much easier time of things and has a good sense of self worth and belonging.

I am 48 years old and remember one hug from my mother, and that was when my father died. I have no memories of her as a child..and in fact feel like I was left to grow up on my own. I have discussed this in therapy. When you grow up like this, you learn not to trust your feelings, and you have no reassurance that they are ok. You don't learn the skills you need, you can't feel secure. I was always described as emotional and needy. Well, gee, isn't it your job to be needy when you are a kid? You are a kid!

I spent many years looking for attention in all of the wrong ways and places. Many years in and out of therapy, on and off meds.

So I won't bore you with all the details, but to this day, my mother will not validate anything I say. If she asks how I am, she doesn't really want to know, and she will cut me off. If I say, well, actually I am not doing well, she says well, I can't do anything about that! and then changes the subject. I am finally starting to stop expecting anything different from her, though it still angers and saddens me so much that I cannot stand it sometimes! Mostly now I am trying to limit any future impact she can have on me, and I avoid contact as much as possible. The one good thing in all of this is that I have broken the cycle with my own children.

I want to huggle you so much and put you on a platform with Worlds Bestest Mummie Ever on it and then give you more hugs! I felt a bit teary reading that, like I wish my mum could have been like you *snif*

Did you ever read "The Drama of Being a Child" by Alice Miller? It might even have been you that recommended it to me! My memory is more full of holes than the US dossier on invading Iraq (hee controversial )

Rossie McPolitical

[PanickyPolly]

I can totally relate to all this particularly the part about there not being enough love to go around. I often feel that about people in my life, family and friends have all rejected and deserted me and I've done nothing to warrant it and it's only now that I can finally begin to accept it was not my fault...I'm not bad, ugly, unloveable ect but that years and years and years of being told I am and having feelings constantly invalidated has led me to believe I am. My mother died very suddenly in a weird accident in December and she was the last person to leave me who loved me...nobody else alive today who I know loves me. My uncle kind of does I guess but we were never espcially close. The rest of my family don't bother and have left me to 'cope' alone since she died. My friends haven't visited or called to find out how I am or if I need anything. I truly do feel like they feel they haven't got enough love to give me. Like they are holding it back in case they need extra for imporant people who need extra but Polly isn't important enough, doesn't matter enough to be loved.

[bluebird]

Rossie - please don't stop giving your opinions, I find your posts totally fascinating to read and I have learnt a lot from them. It's all making more sense than anything has before. I love how you write, it is wonderful to see your input and efforts to empathise and help fellow BPDers.

I was illegitimate and felt the burden of forever being 'worth' the effort of having me and keeping me. I always felt pressured into performing well for the family's reputation and an only [later eldest] child.

The family withheld affection and attention for fear of 'spoiling me', made me learn the things they thought I should learn [eg piano/public speaking] when I wanted to do other things but wasn't allowed to.

I felt [and feel] guilty as the family had to leave friends and family and move to another part of the country [to escape my abusive father]...

I was not allowed emotion. Not anger, not sadness, being too happy meant I was verging on hysteria so had to stop it, couldn't ask for attention as that was being selfish etc. etc - all these things meant I was going off the rails and there had already been one 'failure' in the family they couldn't afford another one. Also I picked up that my family had a great fear of mental illness, it was totally a taboo subject and we were NOT to go down that road. Although I do wonder if my mother had bpd to an extent she was a troubled person most of her life.

I consequently do not ask for affection, find it difficult to show it, feel smothered and don't like it if i do get it [i want it only on my terms[.

I feel stifled and stunted, emotionally a mess with little confidence. Hell I don't know who I am really - constantly move home and search for my identity.

I cling onto my sons and grandsons to define who I am - apart from them my whole life has been full of mistakes and broken relationships. I want to please people all the time, but am so sensitive I reject people who hurt me and get very angry....then am sorry afterwards.

I have not written about this before so I'm glad you raised the subject Rossie, so thanks. Your posts are great. x

[hummm_mabbe]

I don't mind you being opinionated at all, I actually find it refreshing! I'd say keep it up!

Actually, I'm a middle child. My parents had pretty much the same expectations on us (spoken a lot to my parents about family/childhood stuff recently to try and see where all my problems started).

I have been in therapy in total for about five years. Also had my family with me to some sessions. The therapists and doctors are always baffled at the fact that I had a good childhood and that there is no history of MH problems in my family or amongst my relatives. Yup, I am the only one a tad screwed in the head

Heewo Ulricatwiffles

You seem kinna happy about being the only screwy one, doesnt it make you sad?

I was suddenly all curious - when you get angry, what kind of things trigger your anger off? Is it like if someone critcises you, or looks at you funny, or is mean, or you remember something that upsets you? Also - what type of therapy are you having? CBT / DBT / Psychodynamic etc?

Also you must must must (if you havent already) read two books by Alice Miller - "The Drama of Being a Child" and "Thou shalt Not Be Aware". I think its very important that you do **nods**

Ross

[icu_baby]

I relate to alot of what everyone said. I agree with Ross that you do grow up learning to invalidate yourself.

With me it was my Dad, even as a child if I did something or so something as unfair I would either get yelled at or threatened with a spanking which made me scream and cry even more.

When I became depressed as a teenager again my feelings were invalidated mainly because my parents did not understand what depression was. I put alot of invalidation about BPD, depression etc as ignorance on behalf of the other person/people.

I realised that I was invalidating myself with 3 serious attempts and brushed them off as they were insignificant and now I can see that I almost lost my life.

The FANTASTIC thing about this site is that you can find people to validate your feelings, emphasis with you and know exactly how you feel.

[Ulrica]

Heewo Ulricatwiffles

You seem kinna happy about being the only screwy one, doesnt it make you sad?

I was suddenly all curious - when you get angry, what kind of things trigger your anger off? Is it like if someone critcises you, or looks at you funny, or is mean, or you remember something that upsets you? Also - what type of therapy are you having? CBT / DBT / Psychodynamic etc?

Also you must must must (if you havent already) read two books by Alice Miller - "The Drama of Being a Child" and "Thou shalt Not Be Aware". I think its very important that you do **nods**

Ross

I'm not happy about, but neither am I sad about it. I do tend to joke about it quite a bit though. I guess for me it kinda just is really. I think perhaps I'm just more fascinated and perplexed by it all. That sorta thing tends to make me nervous, and when I'm nervous I joke/laugh. I'm not a joker though, actually I quite suck at making people laugh. But that is a whole other story.

The funny thing about my anger is that it seems totally illogical, strikes at any moment and for no apparent/or some very strange reason. But looking at me funny won't help. Getting just your normal psychodynamic at the moment. Had CBT - didn't do much good and all the other nice therapies one can't get in my county

I shall look and see about ordering those books when I has some money.

Btw, I love the nickname thing :D

[hummm_mabbe]

Just to show the effect my mother has on me...

I have been going through this time in therapy w3here I have realised all the things she did to make me how I am, and what she is STILL doing and is incapable of seeing or even acknowledging. I have asked her what i need from her, and said how I want her to change. She has totally ignored me. I told her that I did not want to speak to her for quite some time, and certainly not on the phone. She has continued to email and text every day, asking what Im doing, whether I have a job, benefits etc, when I specifically said she has no buisness in my finances. She broke the (not exactly difficult) terms, because she cannot even begin to prcoess another persons emotions or needs or wishes if they interfere with her own.

Today i was feeling quite good. After getting out all that ventey stuff here, I felt good. I went to the pub, I ate and enjoyed watching a TV programme. Mum had texted me twice yesterday and this morning. I ignored her, as I said I would. So then its "I just want to know you are ok - you know how I worry". In the space of three days, she expects me to belive that her level of worry has legitimately increased to SUCH a level that she just HAS to text 4 times to do the exact thing I asked her not to. She sent the 4th one 40 minutes ago. As I read it, I felt the energy drain from me. I became instantly depressed, and my anxiety went up. I just replied "Im ok - hope you had a good weekend" - and even THAT was enough to make me feel I had yielded yet again. She has me so well trained that even the slightest little HINT that she might be about to go into one of her world-beating unjustified panics (for which everyone else gets the blame). So, i was all fired up, ready to write some more pages of me bookie, and now all I want to do is FUCK ALL. One text from her and its like I was just injected with pure thorazine.

I dont even have enough energy to say how much I hate her.

EDIT: I feel like the UN. I just sent her an ultimatum, saying she either properly reads the letter and email I sent her asking what I want from her, including properly listening to me, not invalidating my feelngs, not contactig me every day via text, not guilting me and not interfering in my finances, or she loses contact permamnently.

She already broke the boundary I set about not interefering in finances and contact, and so I have penalised her. I have told her not to contact me for 2 weeks, and then said if she cant do what Ive asked then contact stops - full stop. I have also asked my sister to relay the same onformation to her. My sister went through a similar event with her about two years ago - mum will only react if you literally walk away from her with no remorse - and the thing is, she has pushed me that far that i can now do it and am quite happy to follow through. The sense of anger, powerlessness and being manipulated is finally FAR in excess of any guilt I feel for doing this. I am standing my ground and if she acannot have it anyway but hers, then she doesnt have it. Thats it.

As Im writing this, Im realising that my dad left her. My sister threatened to. My Dad could leave because he was only married - a CHOICE he made that he could revoke. She gave birth to me, and for some reason that means that no matter what she does, no matter how many times she refuses to listen and acknowledge the pain and rising anger she is producing in me, I must always be nice to her? To respect her? When every element of her behaviours speaks of the VERY OPPOSITE of respect?

If we were two unrelated humans, even if I were her husband, I would have the option to walk away. I had no choice in being born, but I do have a choice in having a right to demand respect from other people. Her free chips have been cashed in on the birthing front and she hasnt earned anything esle in the mothering casino - and so as far as I see it, I am under no boligation to pay out anymore. This is about respecting the rights of another human being. If it were not a mother and son relationship, there would be no question, Goodbye. I do not subscribe to the idea that you should put up with it just because she squeezed me out her box at some point in histiry. She had a hell of a lot else to live up to and she failed, still is failing and STILL demands her share - no, RANSOMS her share via emotional blackmail. Thats precisely what it is - emotional blackmail. And that is where my obligation ceases - becdause I just stopped caring about the ransom.

[Pynn]

That's a HUGE breakthrough, Ross

I'm proud of you, and I admire you for it.

When I grow up, I want to be just like you!

No but seriously Ross, well done you!

You are absolutely right, making your boundaries VERY clear to her - If she doesn't respect your boundaries, she doesn't respect YOU.

It's about YOU here. Your feelings, not hers. And you know it.

K I'm not making much sense, but I think you might understand that this story made my blood boil lol...

So yay you Rossie!

Love,

Lynn

[hummm_mabbe]

That's a HUGE breakthrough, Ross

I'm proud of you, and I admire you for it.

When I grow up, I want to be just like you!

No but seriously Ross, well done you!

You are absolutely right, making your boundaries VERY clear to her - If she doesn't respect your boundaries, she doesn't respect YOU.

It's about YOU here. Your feelings, not hers. And you know it.

K I'm not making much sense, but I think you might understand that this story made my blood boil lol...

So yay you Rossie!

Love,

Lynn

Hullo Missie Lynnie tinkles

Thanks for the nice words, I needed them because doubt still lingers for me all the time. I did some more imagery today with Emma, and she asked me if a wanted to punch the wall! I was utterly seething! But then she came into the image and had a row with my mum - it was WONDERFUL!! I started 'playing' my mum, saying what she would say, and Emma (my heeewwwooo) talked down ALL my mums usual arguments. She made me see how wrong what she did was! I got 'mum' to talk to her and say "oh you psychologists think you know everything - theres more to life than your books you know". Emma said "That may be true, but I have worked with hundreds of children in a psychological setting so i think I have a good idea of what they need to be healthy and happy - and right now I do not see you giving your son that. I can see he's distressed, so why cant you?".

It was like a weight was lifted! I said to Emma "keep going! I want to see a battle!". My 'mum' kept coming up with excuses, including the classic "I had a terrible childhood too, you know". Emma said "thats a very sad thing, and it must have hurt you, but your child is not the one who is meant to hear that. If you are hurting, you should seek someone to help you through with it - not place the burden onto your son, who is only living as a 3 year old child can".

It was like YES YES YES!!! THIS IS WHAT I HAVE WANTED HER TO HEAR ALL MY LIFE!!!!!! SHE CANT HIDE ANYMORE!!! WHEEEEEEEEEEEEEE!!!!!

So yeah, stuff. Lovin my schema, big crushie on me therapist. Oppsie. She gave me a bunny rabbit. Tis a transitional object, because she is going away on break. I gave her a little chicken. Its great, like being a kid again. Bit weird cuz I fancy her too. Erotic tranference. Oopsie. Better get a girlfriendie or find someone to love on and release all me lovey stuffz.

Thankie for the things about boundaries too - you are very caring and nice and sweet. You deserve to have that too. Huggle kissie cmooshie blush

[Pynn]

Tee hee! *giggles*

Thanks Rossie

Your post made me smiiiiile! I'm so pleased to see you finally getting 'validation'! You posting this, I can imagine you feeling much like I did when you schema'd me For real though, it makes me feel all warm and fuzzy inside, that you were able to get some peace through this!!

You have lots of lovey stuffz to give, so I know you'll find a sweet girly girl! I don't see how a girl could NOT fall in love with you!

Knuffels and kissies!

Lynn

[bibiddi]

Hummm, you do seem to be doing so very well.

In regard to contact with your Mum, I have a similar situation.

All I can suggest is, she may continue to ignore your boundaries, and continue to text you.

However, a boundary has two sides.

You can choose not to read any of the messages. From personal experience, I know how difficult it is. Its almost pavlovian. They ring and we respond.

But it is possible to not read them.

Take care.

[jenga]

(quote)

It was like a weight was lifted! I said to Emma "keep going! I want to see a battle!". My 'mum' kept coming up with excuses, including the classic "I had a terrible childhood too, you know". Emma said "thats a very sad thing, and it must have hurt you, but your child is not the one who is meant to hear that. If you are hurting, you should seek someone to help you through with it - not place the burden onto your son, who is only living as a 3 year old child can".

It was like YES YES YES!!! THIS IS WHAT I HAVE WANTED HER TO HEAR ALL MY LIFE!!!!!! SHE CANT HIDE ANYMORE!!! WHEEEEEEEEEEEEEE!!!!!

[hummm_mabbe]

I LOVE THAT!!! I cannot even picture my mother at a meeting like that. She simply wouldn't go: "Can't change that! Can't do anything about that now!"

WHatever! I LOVE your therapists response. BINGO! Just like I said...maybe they had lousy lives, but it is up to THEM to work on those isues. They have failed us for not doing so.. in a very BIG way. You can't do stuff like that people and think you should get away with it because you are such a narcisstic victim!

Just to say, my mum wasnt actually there - it was imagery. I was speaking my mums words to me therapistey ya seez. HAd same effect tho, cuz I know exactly what she would say and do.

[kat_uk]

wow i feel so uplifted reading all this. especially the validation you recieved from your therapist, Ross.

unfortuanatly my therapist is leaving soon, and after having therapy with her for 3 years, the nhs will not give me a replacement, unless maybe i have another 'crisis'. i don't want to wait to the point that i have another crisis, i'm so nearly there - back on track with my life i mean.

i'm back in contact with my parents now, its early days tho. my stepfather keeps telling me that 'it wasn't easy being a parent, there are no rule books'!

ok,ok maybe one day i might forgive, not yet tho. i'm not ready to feel that vunerable. BUT I WILL NEVER FORGET, i hope this is not what my stepfather is asking, or to excuse thier ( his and mum's) behaviour