Are We Born This Way..

[mrD]

Had avery strange day, been right up, then devestated and down, somewhere inbtween right now, fearful of the wfe coming home and trying to syc meself up to be calm, not clingy or desperate for attention or immediate answers to where were at, cause i just dont know, and that indecision is holding me in a place of fear...i've text and rung twice but no reply, and my mind is starting to race, where is she, whats she up too, what sort of mood she gona be in, and i've gota feeling its going to be very hard tonight...was speaking to my mum today, who is a fellow sufferer and she's adamant were born like it or at least with theses traits, and i'm not so sure, maybe conditioned this way, or none of these at all, and being honest concentrating on this question is allowing me not to go into full out panic mode...

sorry bit of a ramble, just scared of whats coming......Dx

[mrD]

God life is strange, just had a call from her, and she says i must have about 8 missed calls cause shes been trying to get hold of me, to tell me that one of our houses has sold, sounds abit pretencious i know, and i really am skint, but i been stressin about what to do with it all day, so up again, and have asked her to possibly talk tonight without her showing me anger, cause it keeps on triggering such anxiety and stress in me, yipee dippii doooo...fuk jusst read that and feel the trepidation already again, christ i wish i was normal. Dx

[D.Ash]

"just scared of whats coming......Dx"

My partner in pain!

My Mum was also BPD.

I like your central question, tho. Calming... centre-ing.

Will get back to you with my thoughts on that one!

Am on a panicky one today as well - except it's my Sister and an old mate I'm obsessing over. I feel you brother.

Here to talk if you want, mate.

-Dx (The original!!!! )

[D.Ash]

DUDE!

CONGRATS ON THE HOUSE SALE!!!!

Christ, I wish I was normal too!

-D

[mrD]

Hey Buddy

a true friend, must say i think your one mighty top fukin geezer so much wisdom, love reading your posts, a true compassionate giver in life...

Gawd bless ya

C3POx

[sunshine_bear]

hello

Its something I have debated long and hard about whether we are born with bpd or have been conditioned into having it. Its like the nature nuture debate and to be perfectly honest I still haven't found an answer, if you find one let me know.

congrats on the house sale.

Natx

[InnerPeace]

I think a certain amount can be genetic. And if you want to look at it spiritually, we could be carrying over traumas from past lives. As spiritual beings in human form our true nature is happiness, love and openness with no fear and spiritual growth is about realising and returning to this true nature. So even if it is genetic, my belief is that this is not how we are meant to be and we can heal.

[KarmaKitty]

I was never abused, neglected, or anything like that. My childhood was stable, my behaviours were always rather BPD. My mom had depression, my brother has depression, and I am fairly certain my grandmother is bi-polar. So I think genetics plays a big part in my situation.

[InnerPeace]

I think having family members with mental health problems will have an impact on us in any event so it's hard to say whether it's genetic or not in those circumstances.

[KarmaKitty]

I think having family members with mental health problems will have an impact on us in any event so it's hard to say whether it's genetic or not in those circumstances.

Good point. I recall my Mom had ED issues aswell, and sometimes I mimic the behaviours without realizing it.

[InnerPeace]

It's a difficult one. My daughter is a lot like me but then she has also spent a lot of time with my mother because she looked after her while I worked and my mother is very critical and judgmental, and does emotional blackmail and martyrdom that on the screen would win her an oscar.

I think my daughter is naturally sensitive, like me and my mother also. I had a break down when my daughter was 2 and I had a lot of instability in my life with my marriage breakdown and unemployment (I was the main wage earner). I remeber once my daughter having a freaky moment and without thinking I told her that I was in control, that immediately calmed her. I realised then that she was reacting in ways that I saw in myself because she was scared that I wasn't in control and as a child she needed me to be. That made me remember the times my mother would be a nervous wreck over money and having her own melt downs. I also remember saying something to my mother and she said to me that I didn't need to protect her anymore, wow didn't realise I had been. There are so many knock-ons.

[rebeccaborderline]

"I think my daughter is naturally sensitive, like me and my mother also. I had a break down when my daughter was 2 and I had a lot of instability in my life with my marriage breakdown and unemployment (I was the main wage earner). I remeber once my daughter having a freaky moment and without thinking I told her that I was in control, that immediately calmed her. I realised then that she was reacting in ways that I saw in myself because she was scared that I wasn't in control and as a child she needed me to be. That made me remember the times my mother would be a nervous wreck over money and having her own melt downs. I also remember saying something to my mother and she said to me that I didn't need to protect her anymore, wow didn't realise I had been. There are so many knock-ons. "

IP; can I just say, what a nice person you are.

It must be very hard to see that you (maybe) made some mistakes with your child; but you admit them, and try to correct them; and try not to let the crap become generational.

Im impressed, baby!

reb

[InnerPeace]

Aww thanks Reb...hey, this stuff has to stop somewhere!

I've found self awareness and self acceptance to be very valuable tools in getting better.

[Frodge]

Although I've always had problems,I,ve always tried to instill positive attitudes and encouragement in my kids. I would say my children had a stable caring upbringing. They have both suffered terribly,and my son commited suicide. I would say genetics play a large part. I would also say that a society based on fear, consumption, and ignorance has a de-humanising effect that we are paying the consequences for.

[Mole]

Good question:

I had bone marrow leukemia 11 years ago

They tested all my siblings for a bone marrow match and my older sister was a match

me and my older sister have MH problems.

My older brother and younger sister do not have MH problems and they weren't a bone marrow match

thankfull the chemotherapy cured me and I didn't need a transplant

[roxy222]

absolutely nurture, not nature

i think we can have a mild genetic sucseptablity, like geneticly we can be predetermined to be more sensitive, but other than that there is no genetic definate. this is evidenced by the fact that geneticly identical twiws dont end up with the same conditions, for example if one twim has scizophrenia the other is only 30% more likely to have it, so obviously 70% dont have it despite having the exact same genetic make up.

the important thing that is often forgotton about nurture is that it begins before our birth, the attachment process begins while still in utero depending on how well our mothers care for themselves, nuture their bodies, how much stress they put themselves under and how they approach the birth. a mother who is better prepared for labour is less likely to need medical interventions (which is massively truamatic for the child also and is a risk factor in attachment disorders- see birth without violence if unsure) and more likely to breastfeed which helps bonding and attachment. A mother who has a much more complicated birth or doesnt initially want the child is much less likely to bond/breastfeed and respond to the babies needs. how we are responded to in these early days/weeks is a very influential factor in developing healthy attachment and having a secure attachment with the primary care giver is what allows us to develope a healthy sences of self, without that we will find all normal stresses much more traumatic that a child with secure attachment, and any abuse much more damaging. atleast a third of teh population show evidence of unhealthy attachment (insecure/avoidant or aggressive) and those with these probelms show a much higher rate of MH problems as well as related problems (like adhd). Finally the world of mental healht professionals are paying attention to this, there was recently a conference held that looked at attachment disorders as the deciding factor betwee those who were abused and later developed schizophrenia and those who didnt.

for more info on genetics have a look at oliver james' book they fuck you up, definative answers.

[Ocean Wolf]

I think it's a mixture for me. I think part of it is nature because my mom and sister are fine (don't know about my brother yet) even though they lived with almost the same things. Also, I've noticed I can't calm down nearly as fast as other people and haven't been able to for as long as I remember.

I ended up with my dad's temper (I also suspect he's bpd, but he would never admit it). I think part of it is nurture because of stuff I learned from my dad (unfortunately). It's all kind of interwoven and I haven't figured it all out yet.

[saffron]

well said roxy, I agree that we are predisposed to certain behaviors. for years I had a fear of spiders, for no other reason than watching my mother scream the house down and run out if even a small one was on the wall. i did an extensive study of them to understand them better and quite happily held a tarantula, they do not bother me at all now, so that phobia/fear/behavior was brought on nurture. i think with depression as some have said can seem to run in the family but is it because i feel there have been no measures within the family to change the cycle. I know with animal behavior studies that animals are predisposed to develop certain behaviors and certain early stimulus in their life will contribute to these behaviors surfacing. hope that makes sense

D

[Miko]

Definitely both, not either-or.

And we can be healed in both.

(Weird things get published about so-called 'genes'. There isn't a gene for BPD nor - to get away from 'mental illness' questions - autism or gaiety. The only things there are genes for are things with names like 1ABC2DEF3GHI, if one manages to track down what little genuine literature there is on the subject.)

Nature is part of our nurture - and only part. How can one be nurtured other than through the medium - the vehicle - of your body? What did your mother cradle in her arms, what did she shout at, what did family members and authorities invalidate or validate - or both by turns confusingly? A disembodied wafty bit?