A Bit Confused...advice Please...

[twistedpingu]

thanks for the book tip...i shall certainly look into it...

erm...yeah...seem to have lost the ability to say anything really tonight...

but just so you know, the stuff you posted has really made things a bit clearer to me...

thank you

[hummm_mabbe]

thanks for the book tip...i shall certainly look into it...

erm...yeah...seem to have lost the ability to say anything really tonight...

but just so you know, the stuff you posted has really made things a bit clearer to me...

thank you

Hey you're very, very welcome. I must admit I was sorta in Dad Mode because - well, you're in your 20's? I wanted to give you all the experience and information Ive collected over the last 10 years in the hope that you dont lose your twenties, like I did. I wanted to hopefully help you cut through some of the jungle of chooising therapy/ists - because all of them will tell you they can help you, including the drug prescribers. I wanted to let you know my experiecnes of what did and didnt work, and especially the ones that I have heard many other people agree do not work. Even though 'evryone is different', When a lot of people are saying the same thing, you have to start to think there may be something in it. On top of that, find me a human being for whom (deep down) feeling wanted, accepted and understood ISN'T a requirement and I will be mightily impressed (yes even people with schizoid, narcissistic etc personality disorders).

Anyhoo, you have a big ol slab of info there that will prolly last you quite a while, as each bit of it becomes relevant to you. I hope that it will help as a reference, so that each time you look at it you go "oh hey yeh that makes sense". You've got your whole life ahead of you now, and though it may feel like everything has t happen RIGHT NOW, it doesnt, and its unlikely to. In recovery "slow is fast" - the more you want quick fix, the longer it keeps you from the longer term deeper stuff that actually works :)

[mrD]

Ross

iam totally amazed the way you've explained all that, just how it is...thankyou

Dx

[twistedpingu]

"wanted to give you all the experience and information Ive collected over the last 10 years"

i think you've achieved that with flying colours...how you manage to put so much down into understandable english....truly inspirational...

even though I still think theres no way on earth I deserve support etc I'm still bloody glad I came on here

well, I guess it's up to me now then, if I can just get the ridiculous conflicting thoughts outta my head...there maybe some hope!

[hummm_mabbe]

Ross

iam totally amazed the way you've explained all that, just how it is...thankyou

Dx

No, thank you - that was very nice of you. It helps me too, to know that others see things in a similar way, as after all understanding this is something we all want, me included. If I say stuff and people go "noooooooo shut up you are a poophead and my life is nothing like that, stop drinking kronenbourg the chemicals are making you nuts" - then I know that I may need to go back and look at what I belive. I think that although everyones exact manifestations of emotional roblems are unique, there is an overarching commonaility to them and some very key things lying at the centre of them. Its a bit like trees and plants and fractals and things - even though no two leaves or branches are the same close up, they still have similar patterns - they're still shaped like a tree - and need the same nutrients to survive. They are the same but not the same, and for me finding the common roots is fascinating, not only because it also helps me to find the right places to concetrate to make me feel better, but hopefully others too.

I like saving, I am a bit of a savey type. Always trying to save my mum, so i was. Couldnt be done but now, hey, thats my surrogate - saving people. Silly huh? Still, at least I know the loop is there.

Ross

[hummm_mabbe]

"wanted to give you all the experience and information Ive collected over the last 10 years"

i think you've achieved that with flying colours...how you manage to put so much down into understandable english....truly inspirational...

even though I still think theres no way on earth I deserve support etc I'm still bloody glad I came on here

well, I guess it's up to me now then, if I can just get the ridiculous conflicting thoughts outta my head...there maybe some hope!

Its the therapy that gets the thoughts out. If you could do it alone, you would have done it already. You cant get rid of conflicting thoughts just because you chose to - they are there because of all the stuff I have already written.

CBT will tell you that you have irrational thoughts that must be replaced, and make it seem like a very easy thing to do. It is not, and that is why Schema Therapy was actually developed - personality disorders represent such a strong foundation of emotionally led belief that the "rational alternatives" cannot work. After all, what is the use of teling someone who is abused all the time that "not everyone in the world is abusive"? The key is to understand why they keep ending up being abused - not to convince them that the world doesnt have abusers. That is simply more of the same invalidation that created the problem.

The thoughts are not ridiclous - they are the beloefs you needed to survive. But if you learn to find environments that dont need those survival skills, and ways of receiving reall love instead of surrogates, then those thoughts will no longer be need and they will melt away.

But dont let anyone tell you that the presence of your thoughts are your fault, or ridiculous. Though it doesnt feel that way now, you have a right to be heard, to be accepted, and a right to feel whatever it is you are feeling. Acceptance of that by another comes before acceptance of that by you - you cannot do it alone.

[twistedpingu]

ok ok, all very valid points, very well made.....

just one last question ( i promise its the last)....do you or did you ever have points, before you had therapy, when you felt things were getting better and felt you didn't really need the help.......I dunno if I'm just kidding myself that at times, I feel a bit more normal so I don't ever get help or whether I actually am improving......although I always end up doing full circle and end up back at square one....bleh.....i'm probably just talking b*%£"!ks really.....

[walker]

do you or did you ever have points, before you had therapy, when you felt things were getting better and felt you didn't really need the help.

never had any sort of therapy until 27, then 6 weeks, cos we had a stalker

before that just muddled on - thought everyone was like me - taught NOT TO MAKE A FUSS - weeks feeling hopeless - up and down like a bloody yo-yo - years of tears and anger

but in that time - did a degree, got married, went to work, had two children

NORMAL ????????????????????????

HUMMMM

Looked it from the outside

get the help now

the longer you leave it - the more engrained the difficulties can become, and the more people it hurts

xxxx

[twistedpingu]

never had any sort of therapy until 27, then 6 weeks, cos we had a stalker

before that just muddled on - thought everyone was like me - taught NOT TO MAKE A FUSS - weeks feeling hopeless - up and down like a bloody yo-yo - years of tears and anger

but in that time - did a degree, got married, went to work, had two children

NORMAL ????????????????????????

HUMMMM

Looked it from the outside

get the help now

the longer you leave it - the more engrained the difficulties can become, and the more people it hurts

xxxx

ok, so maybe 'normal' was quite the right word

I see where your coming from....I do sometimes think everyone must feel like me.....moods constantly going up and down....

only difference being it's pretty much disabling me cos I don't have the confidence or belief to do anything...hmm

point taken...

thanks xx

[walker]

only difference being it's pretty much disabling

then you need support

I always thought everyone hated me, that any shut door was personal against me, that people were talking about me, that i was trapped

In fact I am not really sure how I did get through it - but I guess I carried on because there were times - like you say - when things calmed down and felt more in control

It just didnt occur to me that there could be help - I though it was just me - being bad - lazy - useless - neurotic

Looking back - it makes me sad, that my life could have been so much better if I had understood, and had some help

Mind you - that isnt helping me now!!

Take care

xx

[hummm_mabbe]

never had any sort of therapy until 27, then 6 weeks, cos we had a stalker

before that just muddled on - thought everyone was like me - taught NOT TO MAKE A FUSS - weeks feeling hopeless - up and down like a bloody yo-yo - years of tears and anger

but in that time - did a degree, got married, went to work, had two children

NORMAL ????????????????????????

HUMMMM

Looked it from the outside

get the help now

the longer you leave it - the more engrained the difficulties can become, and the more people it hurts

xxxx

ok, so maybe 'normal' was quite the right word

I see where your coming from....I do sometimes think everyone must feel like me.....moods constantly going up and down....

only difference being it's pretty much disabling me cos I don't have the confidence or belief to do anything...hmm

point taken...

thanks xx

Hi

In answer to your question, sometimes my surrogates and cycles 'worked', eg I would for a bit become Mr Charisma, or do well at work, and as long as I had some substitite to keep me going than there were times in the past when I felt I was doing ok. But I soon came to see theough them because I realised a) that they were just substitiutes and that EVERY TIME they would eventually wear out.

Our cycles CAN work for us and give us our substitute payoff, and at those times we will feel ok. After all, ask a man addicted to drugs if he feels he needs to change when he's high, and how likely are you to get a positive response.

Thats how I see it anyway :)

[hummm_mabbe]

The little guy wearing sunglasses should have been this: ""

I couldnt edit him out, so he lives on :lol:

[twistedpingu]

heh he's a cheeky blighter isn't he...but yes I had figured that one out for myself...clever me

so, basically both of you are saying ignore what I'm telling myself on all this and just bloody go out there and do something about it, because the good feelings don't last....

i've taken it on board, I'm gonna stop with the inquisition and I'm gonna go do some research...

thanks muchly to you both on this...you've been a MASSIVE help xx

[hummm_mabbe]

heh he's a cheeky blighter isn't he...but yes I had figured that one out for myself...clever me

so, basically both of you are saying ignore what I'm telling myself on all this and just bloody go out there and do something about it, because the good feelings don't last....

i've taken it on board, I'm gonna stop with the inquisition and I'm gonna go do some research...

thanks muchly to you both on this...you've been a MASSIVE help xx

I wouldnt say to ignore ANYTHING. Every thought, drive and emotion right now will be in some way connected to the problem. Finding the root cause of it all and spotting patterns means questioning everything - not as "oh why oh why did I do that?" but "what emotion lies behind that? What makes me do this time after time?". Finding the link to the past in each case helps you understand it. Thats the first bit - but dont ignore or throw out anything just yet - set up a questioning, but impassive, state of mind. You are your laboratory and you are the scientist. Reading and research will help you. I am thinking of writing out the titles of all the books I have in my library that I have found helpful in understanding this so that others can pick and choose some titles too. Honestyly - good research I think is a fundamental part of recovery. For me that means reading about well performed and well validated science and understanding how it applies to me. I feel I have a pretty good 'model' of things (of myself) right now, but the one thing I know is this -

The more I learn the more I realise I need to know. Never, ever, ever belive you have it sussed unless your GUTS AND BRAIN tell you that you have. You need agreement. I have had many false dawn - "Oh yes - THAT is the whole thing. That one thing, that nice neat little explanation, thats the whole thing. If I change that one thing, then I will be better". Thats an illusion - the answer is a vast. sprawling complex thing - its just that human beings dont want to hear that, we tend to want to belive theres a single seitch to flick and its all ok. With personality disorders, its more like untangling a very tangled ball of wool. It happens one strand at a time, and painstaking work and false horizons. Its a project, not just one task. Appreciating that early makes it easier later on when all those "eureka" moments turn out to be "oh, no thats just one tiny bit of it". However, each and every eureka is PROGRESS.

[sunshine_bear]

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