So Very Very Angry

[Loopyfruit]

ARRGGHHHH....some people are so fucking ignorant....I work in a preschool and I am at college one day a week getting my qualification for this, started in september and today I had to leave early as I had an appointment to see my councillor. In my wisdom I thought it would be a good idea to let my tutor now about the BDP so she knew why I was leaving early and also knew when I was having a bad day etc...... do you know what she said......." are you allowed to work with children? will it be a problem for you??" how dare she? how bloody dare she?? initially I thought it was funny that she had this view but about half an hour later I was so cross with her.... I have never ever been a danger to other people and am sure I never will be...

this is supposed to be an educated woman....

THEN at my session with therapist told her how angry I was and we kind of dealt with emotional management and stuff and she said I can tell by your body language you are angry with me too......AAARRRRRGGGHHHH guess I am, she is always bloody right...want her to make this all go away if she knows everything...but I know she can't.

cross with myself too for thinking that my tutor would react differently and putting myself in this position...feel so shitty now

anyway just needed to vent how I am feeling

loopy

[sunshine_bear]

No wonder your pissed off. There are some bloody ignorant arseholes about hun.

Hope you feel better after the vent.

Natx

[Tammy]

It's a shame some of the 'most educated' people are dumber then a rock when it comes to certain issues. Anger is a normal emotion...I would have felt the same way you did and probably reacted a bit harsher at the time! She's obviously stupid to the fact of what BPD is and the affects it has on people and a bit rude to boot!! Don't let her stupidy eat you alive. It's her loss that she will most likely continue to not educate herself on the matter.

[joysmelody]

Go ahead and vent. Maybe it's not the ideal job for you anyway and this is the universe's way of giving you an easy way out. It's my personal opinion here - but kids really do need to be with the most chilled out people because they pick up everything like a sponge. Having a rageaholic for a parent or just picking up a negative vibe from a caretaker has brought more people to the shrink and the brink than all the wars combined. If you're angry even quietly seething a kid can pick up on that. I can round up about 1,000 BPD'ers who will attest to that. Put that energy towards something, a cause - anything that will get it out safely and still get paid for it. What do you like to do?

j

ARRGGHHHH....some people are so fucking ignorant....I work in a preschool and I am at college one day a week getting my qualification for this, started in september and today I had to leave early as I had an appointment to see my councillor. In my wisdom I thought it would be a good idea to let my tutor now about the BDP so she knew why I was leaving early and also knew when I was having a bad day etc...... do you know what she said......." are you allowed to work with children? will it be a problem for you??" how dare she? how bloody dare she?? initially I thought it was funny that she had this view but about half an hour later I was so cross with her.... I have never ever been a danger to other people and am sure I never will be...

this is supposed to be an educated woman....

THEN at my session with therapist told her how angry I was and we kind of dealt with emotional management and stuff and she said I can tell by your body language you are angry with me too......AAARRRRRGGGHHHH guess I am, she is always bloody right...want her to make this all go away if she knows everything...but I know she can't.

cross with myself too for thinking that my tutor would react differently and putting myself in this position...feel so shitty now

anyway just needed to vent how I am feeling

loopy

[aussiebabe]

I have worked with children all my life.

I nannied for quite a few then when my son was older i worked in a nursery, promoted to Deputy Manager within 9 months and was acting Manager for 6 months!!

No one picked up on how i was and there was no problem with the children in my care.

You can work with children, do not give up on it if that is what you want to do.

The only thing that happened with me was that a member of staff (not respecting confidentiality!) told a parent why i was off work. This was depression. The mum said should i be working with children to the manager. Which was yes. Obviously i was upset by this and spoke to my psychiatrist and care coordinator who agreed there was no reason i should not work with children.

In the end it was ME who decided not to go back, my job had been held open for over a year.

Go for what YOU want to do!!!!

Sharonx

[joysmelody]

Two things I told myself a long time ago.

1 - I'd never be a victim again. EVER.

2 - If there was a kid somewhere that I could help, intervene for, do something - just so THEY wouldn't have to go through the trip I went through - I'd do it.

I even started a campaign. It was supposed to be in April - this was back in the 90's - Remembrance for the Children who Died at the Hands of their Caretakers.

Some die slowly.

Some die fast.

Some die over a lifetime.

Some die in a cast.

Some die with torture.

Some die with words.

Some die with burning.

Some die with swords.

And in the end - they get buried and some teddy bears are put around the place they were stomped to death. And a TV show is done and everyone puts on these solemn faces and call it *the tragedy of our time* and Lisa Steinberg was supposed to be the last one but ever since that day she died broken, there have been at least 1000 a day. Babies. Toddlers. All shapes and colors and their fate sealed by someone figuring out that THEY knew the truth about what a child really needs. All they need is a whipping. A good solid beating. A curse. A slap. Sit em down in front of the TV and they'll be alright. Shove some food in their mouths and they'll be ok. And if they get out of line - well, we got our lives - we can't be nannies 24/7 to some crying baby - stomp em if need be. That'll shut em up. Good too. And if we gotta do time, well so be it. The time is worth the satisfaction of shutting up one more baby. And damn. I'm good. I'm real good at what I do. Didn't you hear? I've got awards and diplomas and people telling me what a fine, fine job I've done - so I'm just real proud of myself. And what about later? What about years later? What you mean? Fast forward? What's up with that? OK - so show me those kids in 20 years? You mean that little shit I spanked is now in jail? For what? For beating his own kid? Huh. And that other one is in a mental institution for slitting her wrists because she became destitute and helpless and got flashbacks and no one would listen to her when she talked about her early years - or nobody *got it*? It's never the caretaker. It's never the parent. It's the child. Them kids are possessed I tell you. Shoo - you show me 20 years in fast forward - that's just a fluke. That's what it is. Just a fluke. I did real good. Real good. Here's my diploma to prove it.

I have worked with children all my life.

I nannied for quite a few then when my son was older i worked in a nursery, promoted to Deputy Manager within 9 months and was acting Manager for 6 months!!

No one picked up on how i was and there was no problem with the children in my care.

You can work with children, do not give up on it if that is what you want to do.

The only thing that happened with me was that a member of staff (not respecting confidentiality!) told a parent why i was off work. This was depression. The mum said should i be working with children to the manager. Which was yes. Obviously i was upset by this and spoke to my psychiatrist and care coordinator who agreed there was no reason i should not work with children.

In the end it was ME who decided not to go back, my job had been held open for over a year.

Go for what YOU want to do!!!!

Sharonx

[Loopyfruit]

thank you for your support, I am feeling really shitty right now, I love working with children and always have in some capacity and I love my children with all my heart and they are my shining light through ALL of my problems, and I feel that my tutor has questioned all of that in what she said, this has been the first bad reaction I have had to BPD diagnosis, and I know it is probably quite typical and that makes me very very sad. I have had ED for many years but last year got really bad and out of control... myself and husband did our very utmost to minimise the impact on the children ...I am not niave as to think that they were completely unaffected but throughout it all they knew they were loved dearly and cared for properly and NOTHING was projected onto them. I had a couple of friends who wouldn't socialize with me at this time and would not let their children come to my house..this devestated me...and public perception of Anorexia etc is so much less taboo than BPD.... I have never ever been a danger to children or anyone else for that matter, don't know what to do with all these feelings...just want to curl up and cry till it all goes away but know that I can't because I have responsibilites and the kids come first...my hiubby is away for a month so I HAVE to carry on... I think this hurts most of all with what she said because she is the one making it difficult for me to do my job and be a proper mum... I am having to fight so hard right now to carry on and not say fuck it and accept what she thinks of me.

loopy

[Tammy]

It is hard to resist isn't it. I know exactly how you feel...when I first moved to my neighborhood I met an old woman across the stree who had a sister living next door, the old lady has passed now...But anyhow when we first got here we were so broke and having the roughest time...She had invited me over a couple times and saw some dispair in my face one day and made me take a 20 dollar bill from her to purchase some meds that I could not afford. She was so very kind and I payed it back to he within the week, but took the money to her sister instead cause I could never catch her home.... Well needles to say, then the family knew she had given me this small loan and I spoke to her next about another week later. I went over to give her some flowers I bought and a card to thank her for her kindness. Whilst I was there her sister called............I heard every word she said, due to the old lady being very hard of hearing and her phone turned up to the max. Her sister says to her over phone "I saw her come over....tell her you don't have anything if she asks'. '

Then no sooner b4 I was going to leave due to that, the old womans daughter called because the sister told her I was there, it spread like wild fire...I then heard her say 'Mom, you can't trust people "like that"....The old woman rushed her off the phone saying she had company and never said anything bad about me to them....but still.

I was abslutely crushed and so hurt it made me physically sick.....I held back tears as best I could and told her I had to rush off, forgot to do something cause I was losing it...just knowing that is what her sister thought of me...AND her daughter...............I was portrayed as being someone 'like that' which could have endless meanings....

Needless to say this ate at me for DAYS...I did not go back over there for atleast 2 weeks...then one day she was outside trying to take her summer furniture down and was having trouble being old and fragile againt the coming storm...I ran over, helped her then she invited me in. We chatted as normal and I went to go leave about half hour later when her daughter walked in....I was livid at this woman but to my surprise she introduced herself and hugged me tightly and said 'thanks for helping mom out and bringing her company'. I was stunned and that's when I could finaly let the feelings go that were making me sick...but my point in this novel is...lol that I understand totally and it's hard to not take things personally, especially sensitive matters about our own charachter....I hope you can let it go soon. Take care.

A Person with BPD can absolutely be perfect with children Loopy... don't ever be afraid to go after what you want.

[sundries]

joysmelody,

your post on this thread was very inappropriate.

loopy has not tortured you or abused you or anything, and just cos she had bpd does not mean she has or ever would do that to any children she comes into contact with.

If you have an axe to grind with abusive parents please dont project it onto people who have done nothing wrong and lash out in posts where people have requested support.

I think you have been extremely insensitive to loopy and she deserves an apology. I am really quite shocked by you right now. If you need support for your own issues pelase put htem in your own thread and i am sure you will get the support you deserve.

[joysmelody]

People with BPD shouldn't work with children. It's not healthy for any side. And I would like you to please prove this wrong with some scientific evidence that you can muster. People with BPD have issues that children should not be around. The fact that many of us are parents is what it is and eventually the children will be joining the masses of other adult children of dysfunctional families to try to understand why they can't figure out what normal is.

With ALL DUE RESPECT to loopy or whoever works with children and for some reason they think they're doing someone a favor by working with them - well they're not. Plain and simple. There is too much of their own baggage STILL unhealed that children pick up on. What part of this is so hard to understand. On one side you want to pat loopy on the shoulder and say there there. But on the other hand you seem to forget that once you, her and everyone else here was on the receiving end of an unbalanced caretaker and it really baffles me why you would want to perpetuate the cycle with more affliction. Not to mention the added STRESS taking care of children entails for someone with this disorder. Until they are healed they need to work in jobs that don't give out negativity and don't receive it - and children are THE prime absorbers for both kinds of energy.

If you had an infant would you willingly and gleefully place them in the care of someone with Borderline Personality Disorder?

I wouldn't and neither would you. Why are you copping to being dishonest here?

j

joysmelody,

your post on this thread was very inappropriate.

loopy has not tortured you or abused you or anything, and just cos she had bpd does not mean she has or ever would do that to any children she comes into contact with.

If you have an axe to grind with abusive parents please dont project it onto people who have done nothing wrong and lash out in posts where people have requested support.

I think you have been extremely insensitive to loopy and she deserves an apology. I am really quite shocked by you right now. If you need support for your own issues pelase put htem in your own thread and i am sure you will get the support you deserve.

[sunshine_bear]

Thats like saying people with BPD shouldn't be parents!

I would happily leave a child of mine with a person with BPD.

[Tammy]

Some people with BPD are highly sensitive to negativity and are highly 'swayable' by others opinions...please be mindful of that as to not hurt anyones feelings on the board with opinions.

[sundries]

With all due respect, you are talking bullshit.

Millions of people dont even believe borderline personality disorder exists. The fact soemone has gone so far as to get a diagnosis suggests to me they are already a lot further ahead in their ability to care for children than the average survivor of child abuse.

Yes actually, I would be happy leaving my children with soemone with a dx of borderline personality disorder. Please dont presume to know what i think and tell me Im being dishonest if i say I would.

There are over a 150 different combinations of symptoms for a dx of borderline.

You might as well say nobody with any illness, or for that matter financial difficulties or hey any other problems should be parents or work with children. Yeah lets jut create an aryan race why dont we.

Are you really suggesting Loopy is going to rape or burn or drown or punch or neglect the children in her care? Cos those are the kind of things that end up with peopel with dx of borderline (in most cases) not a 'bit of negativity' that the kids have picked up on.

If you are, you are the most offensive person I have ever met.

[dixie]

I agree sundries, with all DUE RESPECT you really are talking bullshit joysmelody.

I work with teenagers, have done since I was a teenager myself, and I am bloody good at my job. And before anyone says that is arrogant of me to say that I have the evidence you ask for....

I have been through 3 OfSTED inspections i 5 years.

I have recieved an OUTSTANDING report for the first two and am awaiting the 3rd.

I have young people I work with telling me that they are happy I am their worker and they enjoy working with me

My managers both know about my BPD and have absolutely NO qualms with me, the work I do or the safety of the young people I work with.

To pass a judgement like this is unfair, unjust and unproven and is in fact ILLEGAL. If you were an employer you could be sued by the The Disability Discrimination Act for this kind of thinking.

Loopyfruit honey, I am sorry your tutor was so horrible about it to you, perhaps you could give her some information about BPD and the truth about your dx instead of her judgement.

Love to you loopy

x

Dixie

[walker]

I am a teacher

I worked with children in primary school

I have BPD

I have been off work since feb due to my depression etc

I have not, am not and will NEVER be a threat to the children IN ANY WAY

There is not a person alive who does not have difficulties of one sort or another

even the most balance person may have a sudden bereavement or accident or illness which makes life difficult - SHOULD they quit their job if they work with children?

Like most people - when I could no longer do my job adequately - I left

I knew when I was too ill to cope

I have seen teachers who are bullies - who are not mentally ill -

We all do our best and I would do anything for the children in my care, to help, teach, nurture them into becoming confident and rounded individuals.

It is a mamoth task when you suffer from BPD, but it also gives you an insight into the pain and vulnerability the children carry

I can see what parents do to their children - I can see how their children are being loved and hurt - and I can try to find ways to help them

The worst thing is not the job - it is the continual feeling of failure, frustration and emptiness that I carry inside my heart

The reason I left was because ALL my energy was being given OUT to the children and I had nothing left

We are not emotionally bound to the children we teach - they are not our carers or our children

We can see them with far greater clarity than perhaps ourselves

It is hard

I have hurt my own children emotionally - whcih breaks my heart every single bloody day -

But when I wass too sick to cope, I was able to walk away from other peoples children

We do our best - like everyone else in this world

If you think children need to be taught by 'emotionally perfect' people - well HELLO - there are none

NO ONE is beyond personal problems

BUT we can use them to punish the world - OR WE CAN USE THEM TO BRING INSIGHT AND UNDERSTANDING

Dont tar us all with one brush

Love to you - Loopy

xx

[joysmelody]

Does a diploma on the wall of a shrink make them able and capable of understanding, empathizing or healing your BPD? Does an award or badge automatically give someone the aptitude to choose rightly, feel well or love unconditionally? I mean really. This logic is just absurd.

I'd really like to know how you gauge doing *bloody* good at your job? What parameters do you use in measuring your levels of success when working with impressionable children (ages 0-14)? Is this your own feeling or do you actually have studies that indicate how a child is emotionally and spiritually progressing under your care? Or are you relying on these *awards and recognitions* given and cited by adults who you work with/under? Has there ever been studies done years later to see how these children are faring?

This is NOT to single out BPD caretakers as not being the optimal caretakers for children - but to say this - the SYSTEM itself is failing and instead of bringing in healed, healthy, functioning individuals who can teach, guide and emit positivity and nurturing (which the BPD'er has no CLUE about btw) these children are going to have an extremely difficult time of making sense of Life and will only emulate what they've seen, heard, felt and understood to be the norm - whether COVERTLY or OVERTLY conveyed to them.

j

I agree sundries, with all DUE RESPECT you really are talking bullshit joysmelody.

I work with teenagers, have done since I was a teenager myself, and I am bloody good at my job. And before anyone says that is arrogant of me to say that I have the evidence you ask for....

I have been through 3 OfSTED inspections i 5 years.

I have recieved an OUTSTANDING report for the first two and am awaiting the 3rd.

I have young people I work with telling me that they are happy I am their worker and they enjoy working with me

My managers both know about my BPD and have absolutely NO qualms with me, the work I do or the safety of the young people I work with.

To pass a judgement like this is unfair, unjust and unproven and is in fact ILLEGAL. If you were an employer you could be sued by the The Disability Discrimination Act for this kind of thinking.

Loopyfruit honey, I am sorry your tutor was so horrible about it to you, perhaps you could give her some information about BPD and the truth about your dx instead of her judgement.

Love to you loopy

x

Dixie

[dixie]

I would like to know where YOUR evidence of this is! You seem so damn sure of your opinion on this but you are providing just that. An opinion. While the rest of us who work with children and young people (by the way your definition of teenagers is a bit distorted - 0 -14?????) are actually showing success, praise, achievement etc coming NOT JUST FROM COLLEAGUES. OfSTED which you clearly don't understand, is not people who work with me. To recieve an OUTSTANDING one must prove that over the last 3 years they have achived success, young people who are intervewed by the inspectors must show how they have moved on, how workers have helped them, what they have got out of being with us. To get an outstanding I needed to have the young people saying that.

You honestly are unbelievable joysmelody - you are accusing me and Loopy, and walker and all the others who work with children and young people of fucking kids up. Where the FUCK do you get off saying that. You don't know us, you don' know how we work and you don't know what we do for the kids we work with.

You need to seriously step back and think about what you are saying here because you have insulted and offended EVERYONE on this site who works with children and young people. You are criticising and judging based on opinion and not bothering to look at others' point of view, or indeed think about others' feelings. You know this is a MH site right? Which means that insultin people with low self esteem is just the same as BULLYING!

So for the record, I am good at my job, I am DISGUSTED by your attitude and opinion.

[lostinme]

ive worked a lot with children too, and theres no reason you cant.. dont let her get to you, people are ignorant they hear mh probs and they seem to automatically think of psychopaths, we know we are all probably the opposite to that, so dont listen. i find i am better with the kids i work with because of my circumstances not inspite of them, so keep going.

[joysmelody]

Well you seem very balanced and have an incredible amount of patience, so I wouldn't worry too much.

j

I would like to know where YOUR evidence of this is! You seem so damn sure of your opinion on this but you are providing just that. An opinion. While the rest of us who work with children and young people (by the way your definition of teenagers is a bit distorted - 0 -14?????) are actually showing success, praise, achievement etc coming NOT JUST FROM COLLEAGUES. OfSTED which you clearly don't understand, is not people who work with me. To recieve an OUTSTANDING one must prove that over the last 3 years they have achived success, young people who are intervewed by the inspectors must show how they have moved on, how workers have helped them, what they have got out of being with us. To get an outstanding I needed to have the young people saying that.

You honestly are unbelievable joysmelody - you are accusing me and Loopy, and walker and all the others who work with children and young people of fucking kids up. Where the FUCK do you get off saying that. You don't know us, you don' know how we work and you don't know what we do for the kids we work with.

You need to seriously step back and think about what you are saying here because you have insulted and offended EVERYONE on this site who works with children and young people. You are criticising and judging based on opinion and not bothering to look at others' point of view, or indeed think about others' feelings. You know this is a MH site right? Which means that insultin people with low self esteem is just the same as BULLYING!

So for the record, I am good at my job, I am DISGUSTED by your attitude and opinion.

[dixie]

You know nothing about me joy and have no right to treat people this way.

Like I said before, your attitude and comments are in breach of the disability discrimination act, if you were an employer,you'd be sued.

[joysmelody]

Throw the book at bad teachers

Human Events, Jun 19, 1998 by Sowell, Thomas

Minimize the Damage They Can Do

Once you have gotten used to a whole vocabulary of euphemisms, it can be shocking to come across the plain truth. The title of a new book may therefore jolt some people: Bad Teachers by Guy Strickland (Pocket Books, 1998, $14.00).

If every parent whose child has had a bad teacher were to buy this book, it would hit the top of the best-seller list in no time. More important, millions of parents would learn how to recognize signs of a bad teacher-and how to cope with the evasions and double-talk that parents are likely to encounter from the teacher, the principal and other school officials.

The education establishment will not be able to dismiss Guy Strickland the way it dismisses other critics, by saying that those critics don't really know what it is like inside the schools today, that they don't have all that wonderful "expertise" and experience that teachers supposedly have. Strickland was both a teacher and a principal before he became an education consultant. This book not only acknowledges that there are bad teachers, but it also recognizes the lasting damage they can do to children and the virtual impossibility of firing them.

Even those who are merely well-meaning incompetents can do lasting damage to a child. Hurt feelings, psychological scars and negative reactions to the learning process can be among the consequences that can follow a child for years, producing an ill-educated adult who for the rest of his life will pay for not having gotten a good education.

Strickland offers many practical suggestions for what parents can do to minimize the damage done by bad teachers. However, unlike the education establishment literature, Bad Teachers does not assume that there are always "solutions" that will make things right. Sometimes the only thing that will work is getting your child transferred to another teacher or another school. And neither is easy.

This book does not buy the malarkey that teachers and principals know best because they have some mysterious "expertise" that mere parents cannot hope to fathom. The author says: "Who is qualified to judge a teacher? You are!" Good Teachers Are Those Whose Students Learn He asks: "What is a good car wash? Is it the one certified by the American Society of Car Washes? Is it the one endorsed by the Chamber of Commerce? No. It's the one that people keep going to, because it does a good job of cleaning cars."

By the same token, good teachers are those whose students learn, not those with worthless certificates and diplomas from schools of education-"pieces of paper that signify nothing," as the author aptly puts it.

Too many parents are intimidated by the lofty airs and pompous jargon of "educators." This book tries to put some backbone in such parents and let them know how to deal with the tactics that educators have developed for dealing with them.

One chapter is titled, "High Noon: Confronting the Teacher." It runs through various defenses and ploys used by the education establishment to evade responsibility for bad teaching.

The most brutal reality of all is this: "No one really cares whether your child leams anything at school." All sorts of people have all sorts of other agendas-from the teachers' union lobbyist who is paid to protect teachers from competency testing, to principals who will readily "sell your child down the river" to keep the teachers happy and the district office out of their hair.

Education in general has a very low priority with people who call themselves educators. Out of 145 possible goals, none of the top eight selected by teachers had anything to do with academics.

"Self-esteem" stood at the top, followed by such things as "attitude" and "socialization"-in short, things designed to turn your child into the kind of person the teacher wants him or her to be, which may bear no relationship to the kind of person you are trying to raise your child to be.

If you buy only one book on education in your lifetime, this is the one to buy.

Dr. Sowell, an economist and senior fellow at the Hoover Institution, is a nationally syndicated columnist and author of Race and Culture.

Copyright Human Events Publishing, Inc. Jun 19, 1998

Provided by ProQuest Information and Learning Company. All rights Reserved

[joysmelody]

I have seen teachers who are bullies - who are not mentally ill -

y

xx

Just FYI - bullying is a form of mental illness. It borders on sadism. If you need the resources, will gladly provide them.

j

[dixie]

This is one persons opinion. Just as your opinion is one persons opinion. Whereas there have been a number of people weighing in onthis topic to say they work with kids.

Highlighting phrases like "well-meaning incompetants" and "lofty airs and pompous jargon" proves my point.

YOU DO NOT KNOW WHAT YOU ARE TALKING ABOUT BECAUSE YOU DO NOT KNOW US

You don't know if we are incompetant, or pompous - you have no clue how we work or engage with children and young people. You have no leg to stand on. You need to realise that and fast.

In terms of bullying, you perhaps need to read these resources and hte meaning of the phrase because what you are doing here is defined as bullying.

[walker]

practical suggestions for what parents can do to minimize the damage done by bad teachers

Ha ha

and the endless hours, days, years that teachers spend minimizing the damage done by BAD PARENTS

No one is saying there are not bad teachers out there, just as there are bad parents, GPs, lawyers, ...........................

BUT having BPD or any other mental illness DOES NOT automatically make us fall into that category

FAR MORE DAMAGE IS DONE BY POOR PARENTING

the children that arrive at school unwashed, unfed, unable to communicate, - unable to play, unable to smile, unable to laugh, unable to sit and listen to a story, unable to feel - They have not been damaged by us, they have been damaged by their parents, their families, their society.

Just because you seem to have a problem with the education system - is not a reason to bully the rest of us, OR close your eyes to the wealth of good that is done there.

You cannot protect children from the influence of others, negative or positive, - unless of course you chose to lock them away!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

NOTHING is perfect, nothing is free from error,

we can only do our best

Many of us here, are ill as a result of our families and what they have done - intentionally or otherwise

[joysmelody]

This is typical defensiveness and frankly my energy is at a premium, not a commodity. But I will say this - people who have mental issues that entail anger, rage, inability to control inhibitions, display erratic behavior patterns, have fears, cannot control their thoughts, are inconconsistent in their relating patterns, disciplines and choices, who are psychologically UNhealed, have no place working with kids. End of story.

You want to debate it? You want to perpetuate it? Be part of a system that is turning out kids with traumas associated with their teachers/caretakers? The unions will embrace you. And in perpetuating this societal sickness where children are sacrificed all across the spectrum of *disorders* - there will be plenty of work and income for the pharmaceutical companies, psychiatric hospitals, shrinks and therapists for years to come and it's just one more brick in the wall.

j

This is one persons opinion. Just as your opinion is one persons opinion. Whereas there have been a number of people weighing in onthis topic to say they work with kids.

Highlighting phrases like "well-meaning incompetants" and "lofty airs and pompous jargon" proves my point.

YOU DO NOT KNOW WHAT YOU ARE TALKING ABOUT BECAUSE YOU DO NOT KNOW US

You don't know if we are incompetant, or pompous - you have no clue how we work or engage with children and young people. You have no leg to stand on. You need to realise that and fast.

In terms of bullying, you perhaps need to read these resources and hte meaning of the phrase because what you are doing here is defined as bullying.