'needing To Fuck Everything Up' Personality Disorder

[hummm_mabbe]

I know like the DSM people have this secret dx that they havent published yet, its called Self Defeating Personality Disorder. Now its prolly not real, which is why they havent published it, but do you, like I do:

1) Somehow fuck everything up the moment it begins to go well? Like actually 'in the moment' - not like, "oh my relationships eventually fall apart" (that does happen too but its not what im asking) - I mean like from one moment to the next - "now its going well" " now its a fucking disaster" ?

2) Somehow push people into an argument with you where things were ok in the total absence of any anger trigger?

3) Manage to ruin happy events by feeling compelled to, I dont know , tell someone something thats bound to offend them after a couple of beers, and you KNOW IT WILL OFFEND REALLY but kinna try to pretened to yourself its ok, and dont actually WANT to cause to trouble, but something inside you makes you SAY IT ANYWAY, almost like part of you WANTS a shit load of hassle and backlash?

4) feel like if something goes well that you need to be smacked, hit, punished, hurt?

5) Accidentally (but consistently) bang your head on things the moment you begin to feel happy and then go "FUUUUUUUUUUUCK!!" and attack the piece of furnitire in a totally DUMB-ASSED PATHETIC way, normally hurting yourself more in the process, and then feel stupid for getting angry and like the furniture is actually laughing at you?

6) Get odd urges during eg business lunches to spit your food in someones face, normally someone REALLY FUCKING IMPORTANT and then feel like you have to suppress the urge really hard?

I wanna know if im the only person who does this, its like part of me is always on the look out to ensure that life never rises above a certain level of happy and acts to supply a big bucket of shit the moment the happy-o-meter rises above 'mirth'

Grrrrrrrrrrrrrrr

Ross

[walker]

i thought it was just me

[hummm_mabbe]

i thought it was just me

How about that thing, like when you have bad wind, and you need to fart, but like you are totally surrounded. You KNOW FOR A FACT that it will smell, and that everyone will smell it and KNOW IT WAS YOU, but you let er rip ANYWAY and then panic in anticipation of the humiliation??

Its like being possessed by the spirit of Jeremy Beadle

[wednesday]

It is all part of the same disorder

For me they have described it as 'seizing defeat from the jaws of victory'

We self sabotage all the time because we don't think we deserve to succeed and think that if we are succeeding they it is just because we are pulling the wool over people's eyes.

I don't need to tell you the answer. You know it. Knowing doesn't help as much as you might think.

[walker]

How about that thing, like when you have bad wind, and you need to fart, but like you are totally surrounded. You KNOW FOR A FACT that it will smell, and that everyone will smell it and KNOW IT WAS YOU, but you let er rip ANYWAY and then panic in anticipation of the humiliation??

got me there

maybe that's more of a bloke thing

but i thought i was wrong?

....................................you want honesty?

i am cracking up

[hummm_mabbe]

It is all part of the same disorder

For me they have described it as 'seizing defeat from the jaws of victory'

We self sabotage all the time because we don't think we deserve to succeed and think that if we are succeeding they it is just because we are pulling the wool over people's eyes.

I don't need to tell you the answer. You know it. Knowing doesn't help as much as you might think.

Lol

Still one of these days Im terified I am going to decorate some CEO's lovely salmon pink tie with actual well-masticated salmon. I mean, what?? The urge to spit my food in someones face? Other odd ones include feeling the urge to suddenly shout profanities at religious clergy-folk or frail sweet old ladies. That one had me going around the possession theory a few times, but then remembered that Jeremy Beadle wasn't an extra in The Exorcist.

Oh here's a great one. I went to see a very high brow play with my friend. It turned out to be about child abuse. At the climaxof the play, the lead charcter revealed the sickening actions of his father, to the silence and shock of the sane members of the audience.

Not me. Not Rossie.

Spontaneously and without any voluntary control, I snorted a short blast of laughter so hard that I nasally ejected gin and tonic over the seat in front. An entire row of people turned and looked at me as if I had just propostioned Mother Theresa. The onstage cast paused the kind of pause you'd expect to see if your gran had just stormed through the living room, during a prayer meeting, waving her knickers around her head and shouting "Dale Winton's got a big one".

And there are SO MANY MORE

Maybe I am schizoid after all? My nickname used to be "Mr Inappropriate" ... damn.

[Rael]

omg that made me laugh so much. i have a similar reaction at really inappropriate times, i can have something really terrible happen, receive some really bad news or have to tell someone something serious, and all i can do is laugh. really can cause problems when people don't realize that sometimes it is a defence mechanism.

oh well i shall continue giving people plenty of reasons to go 'tsk' and shake their heads depreciatively at me

xxx

[hummm_mabbe]

omg that made me laugh so much. i have a similar reaction at really inappropriate times, i can have something really terrible happen, receive some really bad news or have to tell someone something serious, and all i can do is laugh. really can cause problems when people don't realize that sometimes it is a defence mechanism.

oh well i shall continue giving people plenty of reasons to go 'tsk' and shake their heads depreciatively at me

xxx

Here are some more:

1) The time I passed wind so loudly, on a thin wooden seat, in a fully wired-for-sound lecture theatre, that my fluid dynamics lecturer looked like he was going to cry

2) The time in Turkey when, in the middle of a packed family restaurant and thoroughly drunk, I recited the entire "Dr Evil's shaven scrotum" sequence at the top of my voice. Literally. SHOUTING. For the full minute.

3) The time when I got loud during the dinner break at a 2 day assessment centre for a job I really wanted, and was told by the guy who would be interviewing me the next day that I should try "making less pompous, crass and arrogant statements like I do and then people might take me seriously". Amazingly, I actually bothered to turn up to the next days interview ... (um no, I didnt get it)

These are all kind of coming back to me. The thing is, these are the ones that are at least funny (a bit). The other 40,000 of them are the ones that resulted in really bad stuff happening

Seriously, if I didnt know better I would have thought Alan Partridge was actually based on me.

[Rael]

yeah i have so many things that just make me cringe when i think of them, some are funny now and an awful lot just did outright damage. i try to focus on the things that happened and do my best to focus on them and not the resulting events. some of the greatest stories i have told to people about things i have done or had happen have been some of the most awful times of my life, but by using them in this way it kinda shows them for what they are, the past. what is done is done, now i get as much mileage out of the stories as i can

xxx

[hummm_mabbe]

Right, I know that reading any list of DSM criteria is a bit like reading a horoscope and you can usually force yourself to make it fit you no matter what, but this was pretty interesting Im kind of half joking half not so please dont feel duty bound to tell me nice reassuring things. In any case, being masochistic, I would probably resent you if you said something nice anyway

Masochistic Personality Disorder

The Masochistic personality disorder made its last appearance in the DSM III-TR and was removed from the DSM IV and from its text revision, the DSM IV-TR. Some scholars, notably Theodore Millon, regard its removal as a mistake and lobby for its reinstatement in future editions of the DSM.

The masochist has been taught from an early age to hate herself and consider herself unworthy of love and worthless as a person. Consequently, he or she is prone to self-destructive, punishing, and self-defeating behaviors. Though capable of pleasure and possessed of social skills, the masochist avoids or undermines pleasurable experiences. He does not admit to enjoying himself, seeks suffering, pain, and hurt in relationships and situations, rejects help and resents those who offer it. She actively renders futile attempts to assist or ameliorate or mitigate or solve her problems and predicaments.

These self-penalizing behaviors are self-purging: they intend to relieve the masochist of overwhelming, pent-up anxiety. The masochist's conduct is equally aimed at avoiding intimacy and its benefits: companionship and support.

Masochists tend to choose people and circumstances that inevitably and predictably lead to failure, disillusionment, disappointment, and mistreatment. Conversely, they tend to avoid relationships, interactions, and circumstances that are likely to result in success or gratification. They reject, disdain, or even suspect people who consistently treat them well. Masochists find caring, loving persons sexually unattractive.

The masochist typically adopts unrealistic goals and thus guarantees underachievement. Masochists routinely fail at mundane tasks, even when these are crucial to their own advancement and personal objectives and even when they adequately carry out similar assignments on behalf of others. The DSM gives this example: "helps fellow students write papers, but is unable to write his or her own".

When the masochist fails at these attempts at self-sabotage, he reacts with rage, depression, and guilt. She is likely to "compensate" for her undesired accomplishments and happiness by having an accident or engaging in behaviors that produce abandonment, frustration, hurt, illness, or physical pain. Some masochists make harmful self-sacrifices, uncalled for by the situation and unwanted by the intended beneficiaries or recipients.

The projective identification defense mechanism is frequently at play. The masochist deliberately provokes, solicits, and incites angry, disparaging, and rejecting responses from others in order to feel on "familiar territory": humiliated, defeated, devastated, and hurt.

[llanark]

Heh, in a funny way everything i read on this site is a small revelation. This is relevant to the topic because i can guarantee that while i can understand the emotions and predicaments presented and relate them to my own circumstances, the possibility that i will truly learn and avoid similar mistakes is fairly minimal. Contentment just seems so evanescent, and happiness when i experience it just seems so intense that it is unsustainable. Im hoping therapy will help me feel more....consistent, if that makes sense. Eventually anyway . The whole "im happy now but it wont last and im feeling guilty" syndrome, yeah, i know it all too well. Seeing even the smallest decisions as major turning points that will transform my life- yup. I guess i (we?) just need something more permanent at the end of our seesaws lol, or just a tiny bit of perspective. Maybe its a lack of any clear vision of the future, and a feeling of turbulence in the present? Masochist sounds about right...

Just feeling a bit melancholy at the moment, i dont know whether im a hopeless romantic or just a permanent adolescent lol. Great topic :D

[hummm_mabbe]

Heh, in a funny way everything i read on this site is a small revelation. This is relevant to the topic because i can guarantee that while i can understand the emotions and predicaments presented and relate them to my own circumstances, the possibility that i will truly learn and avoid similar mistakes is fairly minimal. Contentment just seems so evanescent, and happiness when i experience it just seems so intense that it is unsustainable. Im hoping therapy will help me feel more....consistent, if that makes sense. Eventually anyway . The whole "im happy now but it wont last and im feeling guilty" syndrome, yeah, i know it all too well. Seeing even the smallest decisions as major turning points that will transform my life- yup. I guess i (we?) just need something more permanent at the end of our seesaws lol, or just a tiny bit of perspective. Maybe its a lack of any clear vision of the future, and a feeling of turbulence in the present? Masochist sounds about right...

Just feeling a bit melancholy at the moment, i dont know whether im a hopeless romantic or just a permanent adolescent lol. Great topic

I dunno, with me its pretty much like it said there. Its like it almost happens automatically - like, I dont really want the shit to happen, but at the same time if it doesnt I feel nervous ... when things go well, its like, no way - this cannot happen, something shit is going to happen! Get it over with already. Or if Im happy about something, I almost always walk into a fucking cupboard corner with my skull, or burn myself or something. And yeh, when i look back to my childhood, thats pretty much what it was like. If I did well at school, I wasnt allowed to celebrate because I would seem "big headed". If I got happy and a bit noisy, I was told to stop acting like a moron. If things went well for me, that would piss my sister off and she would do her utmost to ensure that I felt humilated as soon as possible. My whole fucking family read like a who's who of personality disorders.

I mean like even now, I am waiting for someone to tell me to shut up and quit harping on, or someone to get angry at me for talking about mother theresa, or some random thing about me just generally being a shit ... or told off for swearing too much, or just some totally left field comment about chakras or something and telling me Im evil, I dunno. Or just some typical random internet flame off or 5 page argument or something. Ive been posting for a full 3 days and no flaming has happened. I feel genuinely anxious, like get it over with. Im sure someone out there wants to have a pop. There always is ... this is like paranoia that you WANT ...

Fuck I knew long term SSRI use was a bad idea.

[Rael]

Actually about your swearing......kidding I can be much worse

I know that feeling completely, just want to get the bad thing over and done with, never able to enjoy the moment as it comes because you are too bust waiting for the next catastrophe. It sucks and no matter how much you try to reassure yourself, it lurk in the back of your mind like a goblin with a hammer (where'd that analogy come from?? )

anyways...I totally get you

hugs

xxx

[hummm_mabbe]

Actually about your swearing......kidding I can be much worse

I know that feeling completely, just want to get the bad thing over and done with, never able to enjoy the moment as it comes because you are too bust waiting for the next catastrophe. It sucks and no matter how much you try to reassure yourself, it lurk in the back of your mind like a goblin with a hammer (where'd that analogy come from?? )

anyways...I totally get you

hugs

xxx

YES!! Goblins, totally

I used to think mabbe the devil followed me around and possessed people to do shit to me the moment I got too happy. Goblins are more likely as the devil clearly has his hands full with Amy Winehouse's hairdresser.

AND ANOTHER THING - DREAMS

Why is it, that every night, I have at least one MAJORLY HUMILIATING DREAM?? I mean, self-defeating or what? I thiught Freud said dreams were wish fulfilment? If he's right, then what I wish for most in all the world is ritual embarassment.

[Rael]

:lol: amy winehouse

weird thing about dreams with me is the worse they are, i mean like if someone else would think that a really terrible thing was happening, then the better i feel when i wake up cos it's just what i know. when i have what i suppose would be a relatively normal and pretty much uneventful dream, it terrifies the hell out of me. meh, just me being generally fucked up i guess :wacko:

[bibiddi]

Is it the punitive parent wandering about your head?

(See, I do read, learn and find most useful your posts).

Now then, if it is the PP, what do you do about it?

[hummm_mabbe]

Is it the punitive parent wandering about your head?

(See, I do read, learn and find most useful your posts).

Now then, if it is the PP, what do you do about it?

Hmmz could be modalistic I guess ... but you can't 'do' anything about modes, they change as therapy goes on. For example, doing 'two chair' work ( an idea nicked from gestalt or rogerian therapy, cant remember which) or normal imagery work. You mentally communicate between modes, and the people that are their sources, and gradually the mode is worn down. There is no quick fix technique to apply to get rid of or change a mode, except for using mindfulness to realise you are actually in it. Once you do that you may have a alittle more choice about the actions you choose to take, and the awareness itself can help to stop you fuelling the mode, but then its a matter of time and normal physiological processes (letting adrenaline and stress hormones do their thing etc) before you feel calmer. If the mode flip has been REALLY powerful, you may not be able to get out of it, and then all you can do is ride it out and try to be aware of how the mode may make you act. That is why the first part of therapy is about identifying your modes and learning how you act towards others when you are in them. Everything is gradual, bit by bit, and the imagery work works in the background addressing the deep subconscious stuff. You know when it work because its like someone turning down the gas flame thats mormally burning inside.

Thats every day life and ongoing long term therapy - if they are coming up in a dream and it IS the mode, then thats just the same bit of my subconscious telling me the same things it would normally tell me through feelings during the day, but in dream images I guess. Cant do mindfulness in a dream

Does make sense though - something kinna working in the background going "hmmm that sharp metal corner looks useful .. I wonder if he's seen it? No? Ahhaaa nows my chance". Yep, that makes sense actually.

[hummm_mabbe]

amy winehouse

weird thing about dreams with me is the worse they are, i mean like if someone else would think that a really terrible thing was happening, then the better i feel when i wake up cos it's just what i know. when i have what i suppose would be a relatively normal and pretty much uneventful dream, it terrifies the hell out of me. meh, just me being generally fucked up i guess

Well, maybe not. Perhaps its all perfectly logical? I mean, I cant say for you, but certainly in my case it makes sense that I would feel uncomfortable if things go well, because I was always punished by my family, either by humiliation, shame or physical pain, when they did. There is a battle between my needs going on - on the one hand there is the need to feel competent, or liked, or accepted. On the other there is the need to avoid pain, which as a kid would have been a BIG pain. When we knuckled under and accepted our lot in the family, then we would have been treated better - given a reprieve for 'being good'. "Now that you have stopped running around and being loudly happy, because I called you a little moron, I am pleased with you. I prefer your quiet behaviour to your loud behaviour and will stop abusing you". Now I have TWO reasons to prefer not to be happy - ONE i avoid the pain of the humiliation, and TWO I place myself in the "safe / stopped abuse" category that I was conditioned to end up in. As long as I was quiet and fit 'their' behaviour, i did not suffer abuse. But this meant suppressing happines, spontaneity, myself. And now I am living out that old childhood cycle.

So as soon as I begin to feel happy, I anticipate that cycle. When it is not forthcoming, the ANXIETY I feel in waiting for it is so unbearable that I actually start acting in ways that will CAUSE an attack, cause others to resent me, simply so that i do not have to endure the anxiety and can get back to a place that I recognise - being attacked, abused, hurt. Then another one of my cycles can kick in - the rebel. I can fight against the perceived abuse, the injustice. Once this starts I completely forget about what has gone before, and I am off on a new cycle, a new crusade of alienating myself and others.

"Being clever" or knowing stuff, academic achievement, was something that got me approval, though I was not allowed to personaly celebrate. If I fixed things, like the TV, I got approved of. So now in my adult life, I crave appreciation for being clever, and here online - for helping people. Then the moment I get appreciation, I anticipate jealousy (my sisters role), humiliation (mum, dad, sister) and then enter the "screw myself up cycle".

These cycles lead on to my paranoid, abanadonment, running away and rage cycles. I have several of them interacting at one time, which is why when I look at any individual DSM diagnosis I seem to fit them all - my cycles sit across many of them because this is a process of 30 years evolution. Pain is a necessary part of my cycle, the bottom of the circle that i descend into periodically as I go round the loop again and again, choosing or even constructing (by forcing them to react) the right people - the right "players" around me that fulfil all the character roles needed to help me play my cycle. There are still other cycles that sit across and intersect this one. They are all GAMES. They are all highly complex and multifaceted, and may complement or detract from one another at any given time. Its a living, breathing organic system - and thats why there is never any one-size-fits-all, reductionist explanation for what is going on with any one person. The only common ground is that at our core, we are all looking for safety, acceptance and love. Our games make us play those needs off against one another according to the way we were conditioned, and because I never achieve true intimacy and instead play my games, I feel eternally empty inside. The real nutrition I need cannot get through because all the bandwidth is taken up with 'playing'. The more 'off' the conditioning, the further we stay from happiness in our cycles and the harder they are to break. There is a common ROOT but the branches are all individual.

Holy hell - its "Transactional Analysis" Game Theory, and I didnt even realise it!

[walker]

why was being young and happy and loud SO BAD?

why did they tell us that children who played quietly and on their own - were so GOOD?

even now they tell me about people being 'nice and quiet' and every time it hurts

no wonder we are so scared of happiness - its Bad

happy = lively = noisy = chatty = BAD

come in from the garden, shut the doors and windows, she is making a noise and someone will hear her

shut her away, she is bad

but it all seemed so harmless - as my husband endlessly tells me - nothing really bad happened - so why are you sick?

[hummm_mabbe]

but it all seemed so harmless - as my husband endlessly tells me - nothing really bad happened - so why are you sick?

If the true aim of childhood was true love, acceptance and safety, and instead you were forced to play games, then you lost.

If you dont feed a cat, it dies. If you dont feed a soul, it dies.

You dont have to kick or hurt the cat for it to die. Depriving it of what it needs is enough.

[mimi1227]

omg i exactly have all of these things as well.but is that also due to the BPD??

[hummm_mabbe]

omg i exactly have all of these things as well.but is that also due to the BPD??

My personal take on it is that its due to being a human who is in pain and coping the only way life has led them to be able to :)

[mimi1227]

yep i imagine it is that...but sometimes that can be so difficult coz for example i can be with a guy i like and all will be fine and suddenly i will say really nasty thing and break everything...or even do a really nasty thing.or with my friends it is the same.and i break all the relations i have to people like that.i mean what can u do against that?

[walker]

i dont even know I am doing it most of the time

it just happens automatically

always being told i make everything bad!!!!!!!!!

[D.Ash]

omg i exactly have all of these things as well.but is that also due to the BPD??

My personal take on it is that its due to being a human who is in pain and coping the only way life has led them to be able to

Never a truer sentiment spoken...

Great thread, Ross!

-Dx