Unethical.

[Fairy]

I notice a thead has been closed about someone realising you are trying to charge for a diagnosis you are in no position to make. I have checked the wording, and yes, you are within the law. However, I spoke to my psychiatrist about this service you are offering, he was disgusted.

I appreciate the money may go back in to the charity that is BPD World, however, it is so misleading and unethical. The very people you would be getting the money from will be feeling unwell. NO ONE can diagnose without seeing you. I know the wording is slippery, but first glance, it would seem that is what you are charging for.

I do have a lot more to say on this matter, but, I am trying to exercise some control.

Fairy xxx

[amy123]

:o i had no idea that BPD world done such a thing..

[Lily-Bee]

I would like to let you know that that particular thread was closed not because this person had critism but because this person said he was leaving the forum and goodbye posts always get closed.

Lilly

[Fairy]

Hey Lilly,

Yes, I did realise that. I am not suggesting that threads are closed because Josh or BPD World is being is being called in to question.

I will also add, I think BPD World saves lives, I just think that if anyone is considering using that diagnostic service, give your £30 to BPD World and go and see your GP.

I don't agree with the original poster, I do not think this site is run by capatalists, else I would not come here myself.

Fairy xxx

[amy123]

i actually just read this link and i found it discusting,i'm gonna ask my pdoc or doctor if its possible to get an online diagnosis.

here's the link...

http://www.bpdworld.org/assessments.html

[Fairy]

It is carefully worded, it does not claim to be a formal diagnosis. But, if you don't read VERY carefully, that is what it seems. Now as it is directed at people who are ill, it is unethical.

The question for a psychiatrist is, " Would an online questionaire have any bearing on what you would or wouldn't daignose me with?" The answer is "NO". So £30 for nothing.

Completely unethical. Also, no disrespect to Josh, but he can't formally diagnose in person, so it does make the entire venture even more dodgy.

Fairy xxx

[Lily-Bee]

It is NOT an official diagnoses it is an assesment which is something different. It can give you an idea about what might be going on which can then help you get the help you need or you can show it to your therapist or whatever for consideration.

There are many many types of assesments like this online when you look up depression for instance of other BPD websites there will often be questionaires to help you determine if you might have a problem. This one is a bit more comprehensive and takes time for Josh evaluate and therefor costs money. He gives also advice on what might be the next best step after the assesment so this is actually of help to people gives them an idea of where to go next.

And Josh is fully qualified to do this.

Lilly

[amy123]

It is NOT an official diagnoses it is an assesment which is something different. It can give you an idea about what might be going on which can then help you get the help you need or you can show it to your therapist or whatever for consideration.

There are many many types of assesments like this online when you look up depression for instance of other BPD websites there will often be questionaires to help you determine if you might have a problem. This one is a bit more comprehensive and takes time for Josh evaluate and therefor costs money. He gives also advice on what might be the next best step after the assesment so this is actually of help to people gives them an idea of where to go next.

And Josh is fully qualified to do this.

Lilly

i hear what your saying Lilly but can't a doctor or a pdoc do that?why pay £30 for it?

[Fairy]

Hey Lilly,

I am sorry, but I have FULLY checked Josh out and his qualifications. Yes, he can do one of these online guides to diagnosis, but he cannot in this country formally diagnose.

I am not saying he is selling a diagnosis, I am saying he is selling nothing, and that is why it is wrong. It is misleading, not illegal, but unethical.

Fairy xxx

[Fairy]

I will add, ANYONE can do what Josh has done. ANYONE. That is how much weight it has. I could open my own diagnostics centre!

Fairy xxx

[amy123]

I will add, ANYONE can do what Josh has done. ANYONE. That is how much weight it has. I could open my own diagnostics centre!

Fairy xxx

yeah i agree

[MarcW10]

Honestly. I was thinking about going for one of these. I don't even know why, seems easier then talking to an actual doctor I guess. Starting to think it might not be such a good idea...

[Fairy]

Hey Marc,

All that will happen is you will pay £30, fill out a form, get a response saying you most likely have BPD. You will get a list if therapists, advice to see your GP. Well, you can get the list of therapists by phoning your local council, or clicking on the "Find a Therapist" button on the top of the page!

If you have BPD or any other serious MH problem you need to see a doctor. No doctor will spend less time talking to you because you have a piece of paper saying, "High possibility of BPD". In all likelihood they will not look at your piece of paper!

Also if you google "Personality Tests", you can do some online tests or assessments for free!

Fairy xxx

[Joshua]

Hello

One of the team has brought this post to my attention, I thought it may be an idea to respond.

Fairy you are right in the fact that I am not offering an actual diagnosis but in some cases and where the indication from the self assessment suggests I offer validation of a problem that is causing some form of disability to the service user. I offer this with advice on what steps to take next such as visit a GP or seek treatment through a therapist.

Many people with BPD or symptoms of BPD feel concerned about going to their GP or Psychiatrist in case they will be dismissed or the professional they seek clarity from has very little knowledge of BPD.

[Marchmadness]

Hey Fairy -

It is a guideline to help you with your next step. There are so many people

that come here and say "what do you think?" does it sound like I have this

DX. So this is a way of helping others to give them an idea as to what

could be going on. As Lilly said, then he gives a suggestion as to what the

next step should be. Also many a time members from the UK are looking

for help, that their GP or other professional is not listening, or asking the

right questions. Maybe the person can not articulate what is going on for

them. This is another tool, to help.

March

[Fairy]

If you need to charge £30 for this, then you need to write in bold letters, " NOT TO BE USED OR CONFUSED FOR A DIAGNOSIS". Although, I don't think you should do it at all.

Just my opinion, I think it is unethical, evidence of that is people reading the link and thinking you are diagnosing, also, that I can say what the outcome will be, therapy, GP.

I think it is a shame that the person that posted orginally mistook your organisation, because of this one service which I also was appauled by when I came across it a few months back.

Fairy xxx

[Fairy]

Hey March,

I understand that, but NO ONE in the NHS is going to take any notice of an internet test. Also, it is misleading, that is what I don't like about it.

Please don't misunderstand me, I think BPD World is an incredible place, saving lives doing good work. I am debating with you, this is just my opinion, that is all.

Fairy xxx

[Joshua]

Fairy

As you have said yourself if you read the wording you can see this will not end up giving you a diagnosis. In the paper work received back it states this is not a formal diagnosis etc.

I understand that, but NO ONE in the NHS is going to take any notice of an internet test. Also, it is misleading, that is what I don't like about it.

I also believe this to be a sweeping generalization, unless of course you have took a survery and have some results? Of which i would be happy to look at.

[Fairy]

Oh Josh, please, you and I both know that if you go to an NHS psychiatrist with a peice of paper off the internet, well, I don't need a survey! Your defensive address shows me what you think too.

By the time your "Client", receives your paperwork, you have the money already, so that point is moot.

Also, I did not say it was illegal, I said it was unethical, You have to expect people that are in all likelihood very unwell, to read very carefully.

It is in my opinion a useless and unethical service.

Fairy xxx

[Fairy]

I add to my last post -

You are not a dcotor, psychiatrist, psycotherapist. BPD is a pattern of enduring behaviour, a form will tell you no more than what the person wants you to believe on that day.

[Joshua]

No, I’m sorry but I am afraid I don’t know that.

I also feel that you are misinterpreting me, as I certainly do not feel the need to become defensive over this. I was simply challenging your generalization and assumption. You have an opinion and you have vented this. I have given you the courtesy and respect of responding to it.

[Fairy]

I apologise if I misinterpreted you. I thank you for your responses.

Fairy xxx

[Joshua]

Fairy, Your welcome.

Whilst I continue to believe the description provided on the assessment page was clear enough, I have, Further to the comments here, amended and added additional information to the assessment page in an attempt to make it as clear as possible that people will not be receiving a formal diagnosis but more a validation of their experiences and an informed opinion as to whether they should pursue the matter of diagnosis.

[amy123]

Hey Marc,

All that will happen is you will pay £30, fill out a form, get a response saying you most likely have BPD. You will get a list if therapists, advice to see your GP. Well, you can get the list of therapists by phoning your local council, or clicking on the "Find a Therapist" button on the top of the page!

If you have BPD or any other serious MH problem you need to see a doctor. No doctor will spend less time talking to you because you have a piece of paper saying, "High possibility of BPD". In all likelihood they will not look at your piece of paper!

Also if you google "Personality Tests", you can do some online tests or assessments for free!

Fairy xxx

£30 just to fill out a form,when you can get it done for nothing,

discusting :o

[Tammy]

Just to clarify here is the wording..

Do you suffer with an undiagnosed mental health condition?

BPDWORLD has a new service that may help you become better informed as to whether you may reach the criteria to receive a formal diagnosis.

For a fee of £30 we will send you a detailed assessment, which will include many questions and requires you to provide honest answers. Once we have received your payment you will be directed to a page where you can download your assessment. Should you prefer to receive this via email or post please ask.

Within 3 working days* after receiving your completed assessment we will send you our response with suggestions of what to do next.

The information given to you may be used to gain statutory services or be given to any existing mental health services for them to consider. Although we cannot provide any guarantee this will happen as a result of taking this assessment.

Notes: Please make sure you have thought through the consequences of seeking a diagnoses. A diagnosis of complex mental illness holds a lot of stigma and can be quite frightening to read about.

On a positive note it can offer an explanation for some of the behaviours you have been engaging in and also help with the isolation some may feel.

Your assessment will be made by a Specialist Therapist Practitioner who has specific qualifications in the area of personality disorder, dissociative disorders, and eating disorders. Further, the relevant experience in the treatment of these disorders.

The advice given is dependent upon honest and truthful answers being given. We accept no responsibility and provide no warranty in respect of this service and in appropriate circumstances we will refer you to seek guidance from your psychiatrist. To avoid any confusion and to be completely clear you will not receive a formal diagnosis but will receive an opinion on whether you may reach the diagnostic criteria should you decide to pursue this further. You will also receive advise on what action to take next.

* During busy periods this may take longer

I just wanted to add my opinions...

1.) I personally don't think it is unethical or wrong just because people who are mentally ill will read and possibly use this service. Just because we are mentally ill, doesn't mean we are stupid or unable to comprehend or make a decision regarding help with our mental health...

2.) This service is being offered by a professional with sound qualifications and experience. NOT an automated test online. Automated tests online do not offer advise and concern and a genuine ear to listen or person to confide in, if even for a moment.

3.) I have no experience with the NHS as I live in the states...but I know, personally, I would pay for the service just to help me...Help me to talk with a couselor or psychiatrist, help me to get a foot in the door so to speak cause I think we, ourselves, are our best help, especially in telling out dr's about what is happening with us, or bothering us etc; I can't speak for the NHS or the folks across the pond, but I know it would help people in the states, and there are members here from all over, not just in the NHS's areas.