:o(

[JustClayton]

Wow never thought about this before..

I never open up to anyone and am not expecting any help through here, maybe will help me just writing it down tho.

About 3 years ago my daughter told me another man was coming round to take mummy out.. lol wow that was a shock,to cut a long story short I moved out and headed downhill big time... Im a personal trainer so have always been fit and healthy but i turned to drink.. then drugs, anti depressants then started self harming... hey I even planned my funeral, went to the solicitors to sort out the will, that was it for me. My doctor tried desperatly to get me into a mental hospital but couldnt. Again cutting the story short (I hate to bore ya, lol) I met someone and that pro longed the pain... ...........but I just cant get my wife outta my head.. I had a long term girlfriend who finished with me a couple of weeks ago but again Im expressing my undying love for my wife. Ive just told her whatever she wants I'll do it, renewing of vows, more children, counciling.... I just cant get her out of my head...

I've starteed drinking again heavily each night and will be on my own this Xmas as she's taking my babies to her aunties..

Im a personal trainer I dont even drink yet i find myself drunk every night and have a stackful of Diazepan calling me..

I'm so so scared i'll end up how i was before..

well that helped, lol

not feeling great as ya probably guessed, I just had a heart to heart but she had to go... busy I guess...

Right, lol

Better get off ya site, let the people who really need it get a look in...

Dont know who im speaking to but err... thanks (

[eli-lilly]

Hi Clayton,

I am sorry you are feeling this way. I also have depression and understand how that feels. Are you on any type of anti-depressants? I find that they help me.

Keeps talking here if you like, sometimes getting it all out is good.

-rebex

[eli-lilly]

Hi again,

I also wanted to add that therapy is a fantastic way to try and get these things out. Congratulations on opening up here and trusting us! It must be a big step. I also find it hard to talk to people about how i feel.

[Marchmadness]

Hey -

Wanted to say welcome to the site. I hope that you will feel at ease here. The group is supportive

and friendly. Talk with you soon.

Marchmadness

[Rael]

hello and to the site

well done for opening up and i hope that you find getting things down helps, sometimes we need to get things off our chest and to be heard and this is a great place to do that. i get the impression you feel you shouldnt be posting and that you are taking something away from others by doing so, you are not and you have every right to post here and receive support so i hope you will continue to do so.

xxx

[JustClayton]

Hi Clayton,

I am sorry you are feeling this way. I also have depression and understand how that feels. Are you on any type of anti-depressants? I find that they help me.

Keeps talking here if you like, sometimes getting it all out is good.

-rebex

Hey Miss,

I woke up this morning feeling kinda silly. I just logged on to delete my post so was pretty shocked to see I had messages.

My old doctor (who literaly savedmy life) prescribed me Diazepam. i had to move away so found a new doc who I wouldnt even bother with.. Useless (

I have boxes of them at home tho. The problem is when I was taking them I was taking a lot and also mixing them heavily with alcohol and cocaine. Ive started drinking a lot now and dont want to start taking them again if I can help it.

Can I say to anyone else who has now got a doctor like mine. If he doesnt understand or care then find a new one.. and keep searching until you find one like the first doctor I had. I cant thank her enough for what she done for me.

[JustClayton]

hello and to the site

well done for opening up and i hope that you find getting things down helps, sometimes we need to get things off our chest and to be heard and this is a great place to do that. i get the impression you feel you shouldnt be posting and that you are taking something away from others by doing so, you are not and you have every right to post here and receive support so i hope you will continue to do so.

xxx

Hey,

That statement is so true its scary, lol

I woke up this morning feeling kinda silly. I just logged on to delete my post so was pretty shocked to see I had messages.

I hate bringing other people down, especially at this time of year. There is so much more to worry about.

I listen to peoples problems everyday at work but wont open up to others about mine..

Thank you loads anyway

You made me smile... a bit

[Roses]

Well done for getting this far. Now you just gotta keep going. Keep posting and welcome we are all pretty friendly round here xxxxxxxxxxx

[JustClayton]

Well done for getting this far. Now you just gotta keep going. Keep posting and welcome we are all pretty friendly round here xxxxxxxxxxx

You all seem friendly...

But this is crazy, lol

I have no idea at all why I'm here.

Its MY job to listen and to help people..

I feel like I'm in a foreign place... Russia maybe, lol... and I'm lost... out of place...

Weird huh :unsure:

[Roses]

Not wierd, just different! If you were in Russia you'd be bloomin' freezing!

[JustClayton]

Not wierd, just different! If you were in Russia you'd be bloomin' freezing!

Wowzers...

Just read your "It hurts so much" piece on your page..

I can so relate to what you wrote, it could of even been about me... (Apart from your a woman of course)

Hope things are better for you now.

I managed to get past the things you mentioned but I too am scared I'm sliding back down.. spending Xmas on my own so aint gonna help either

Have a great day x

[Roses]

Have you ever written poetry? It can be very relieving in times of darkness. I was just looking on your profile and noticed you down as London. I grew up bout half hour south of London at top of Hampshire. Moved to Middlesbrough area with hubbie's job and then over to North West with his job again! Don't spend Xmas on your own - there'll be lots of us on here to chat to! Have you got any friends/family you could descend upon for a bit to break the day up? Or of not, is there a support centre open near you - even if it's just for an hour to get you out?

[JustClayton]

Have you ever written poetry? It can be very relieving in times of darkness. I was just looking on your profile and noticed you down as London. I grew up bout half hour south of London at top of Hampshire. Moved to Middlesbrough area with hubbie's job and then over to North West with his job again! Don't spend Xmas on your own - there'll be lots of us on here to chat to! Have you got any friends/family you could descend upon for a bit to break the day up? Or of not, is there a support centre open near you - even if it's just for an hour to get you out?

I do write lil poems, usualy when sending cards just silly little ones.

I couldnt do what wrote. When I think back at what I went through it makes me tearful, Ive also started to get panic attacks (well I've had them for a while but there getting worse) whenever I think of death or dark times.

I've got family but... well long story.

I have children that I dont think I'll get to see

and an ex wife who Ive just declared undying love for..... Im just waiting for a "no sorry" kinda email or text or something

Thanks so much for your mails hope your cool and having a great day )

[Roses]

Thanks Clayton. I have had a better day today just chillin with the little ones at a mates house. It's my little girl's 5th tomorrow so made cake and icing it in a mo. Sorry to hear you getting panic attacks I get those and am on a lot of medication. Got emergency appt tomorrow as not been well at all and am a bit wound up about that.

If you want to post some poems in creative corner no-one will think that they are silly. You don't have to write about the bad times if it upsets you. Perhaps you could write a poem of hope or to one of your lovely children. Whatever helps. I have access to a support centre that has art/poetry/cooking/computer stuff etc... is there anything like that in your area? A sort of 'drop-in' centre?? Ours is run by the Richmond Fellowship who work with mental illness accross the country. They have a website perhaps there is a centre near you? Think you need GP referral.

I don't want to pry about the missus but are you hoping for a reconciliation? How often do you see your kids? Just thinking that you do have rights to see them a certain amount and I know how you feel cos last year was in hospital for 5 months and I only saw them three times!!

So what have you been up to today?

[RemmyHun]

You all seem friendly...

But this is crazy, lol

I have no idea at all why I'm here.

Its MY job to listen and to help people..

I feel like I'm in a foreign place... Russia maybe, lol... and I'm lost... out of place...

Clayton,

I'm not a sympathetic person, however, I've been a sounding board for people and their problems for years [despite my young age]. Everything thing from relationships, to physical pain, mental pain, contemplations, thoughts, worries. I've been the rock wall for people to put their hand on for support for a long time. And as such, I can understand how you feel it's crazy to be looking for someone or something to be your wall, when you're a wall for others. You might even have said to yourself "If I crumble, who will help hold these people up? I'm there wall, I can't fall" or something to that nature.

I did the same. I'm still guilty of wanting to be strong even when I don't feel like I am. When I feel like I'm falling apart [not so much these days.] I have my own set of rules and guidlines, one of which I think might help you to consider. Rule#22 - Everyone, no matter how old or strong, needs a mentor, guidance and someone who understands. Everyone needs a wall. Just because you're other people's wall, doesn't mean you can't have one of your own.

Remmy.

[JustClayton]

Thanks Clayton. I have had a better day today just chillin with the little ones at a mates house. It's my little girl's 5th tomorrow so made cake and icing it in a mo. Sorry to hear you getting panic attacks I get those and am on a lot of medication. Got emergency appt tomorrow as not been well at all and am a bit wound up about that.

If you want to post some poems in creative corner no-one will think that they are silly. You don't have to write about the bad times if it upsets you. Perhaps you could write a poem of hope or to one of your lovely children. Whatever helps. I have access to a support centre that has art/poetry/cooking/computer stuff etc... is there anything like that in your area? A sort of 'drop-in' centre?? Ours is run by the Richmond Fellowship who work with mental illness accross the country. They have a website perhaps there is a centre near you? Think you need GP referral.

I don't want to pry about the missus but are you hoping for a reconciliation? How often do you see your kids? Just thinking that you do have rights to see them a certain amount and I know how you feel cos last year was in hospital for 5 months and I only saw them three times!!

So what have you been up to today?

Hey,

I wouldnt dream of posting my poems, neither would I ever dream of dropping into a center. Thanks for the help but I just couldnt. Im suprised Im even on here.

GP Referral, lol Thats my job, I'm a GP Referral instructor, I work with people with mental health problems.. never heard of the instructor getting referred, lol

Yeah Im hoping for a recon, although I dont think it will happen. Ive just offered her everything I can and thats all I can do. I just have to wait now but im not hopeful. I have two children 13 and 11, I can see them whenever I want but I just have them on weekends. Its hard going round there and seeing my wife so I try not to when she's there.

I'm off to work soon, looking after the needy (

Have a wonderful day

And I hope your little one has a wonderful Birthday )

[JustClayton]

You all seem friendly...

But this is crazy, lol

I have no idea at all why I'm here.

Its MY job to listen and to help people..

I feel like I'm in a foreign place... Russia maybe, lol... and I'm lost... out of place...

Clayton,

I'm not a sympathetic person, however, I've been a sounding board for people and their problems for years [despite my young age]. Everything thing from relationships, to physical pain, mental pain, contemplations, thoughts, worries. I've been the rock wall for people to put their hand on for support for a long time. And as such, I can understand how you feel it's crazy to be looking for someone or something to be your wall, when you're a wall for others. You might even have said to yourself "If I crumble, who will help hold these people up? I'm there wall, I can't fall" or something to that nature.

I did the same. I'm still guilty of wanting to be strong even when I don't feel like I am. When I feel like I'm falling apart [not so much these days.] I have my own set of rules and guidlines, one of which I think might help you to consider. Rule#22 - Everyone, no matter how old or strong, needs a mentor, guidance and someone who understands. Everyone needs a wall. Just because you're other people's wall, doesn't mean you can't have one of your own.

Hey Remmy

Thats a good point you made, I've not really thought about that but I guess your right.

When Im at work I have to look after a lot of people who depend on me, and Im kinda fine when Im there. Its when I get home that I "crumble"

I think when Im out I have to put on a front, the big macho instructor, they cant be seen to be breaking up.

I've just never opened up or talked to anyone, I never had a close friend I could do this with and my first long time girlfriend I couldnt talk to.. just kept bottling things up.

Thanks loads for your reply anyway

You made me think... I dont do that very often

Have a wonderful day

Remmy.

[Roses]

Hope you have a good day at work Clayton. Birthday going OK so far. Got that psyche appt later, will let you know how I get on. That is very ironic the job you do and the position you are in. It's a shame you don't feel comfortable sharing your poems as I bet they would be really good! But as long as you are writing them it doesn't matter if no-one ever sees them as long as it helps you. We all cope in different ways. Is good you have open access to your little ones must make it a bit easier knowing you can see them regularly.

Speak later and remember we are all here for you. xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

[daisy duck]

Wow never thought about this before..

I never open up to anyone and am not expecting any help through here, maybe will help me just writing it down tho.

About 3 years ago my daughter told me another man was coming round to take mummy out.. lol wow that was a shock,to cut a long story short I moved out and headed downhill big time... Im a personal trainer so have always been fit and healthy but i turned to drink.. then drugs, anti depressants then started self harming... hey I even planned my funeral, went to the solicitors to sort out the will, that was it for me. My doctor tried desperatly to get me into a mental hospital but couldnt. Again cutting the story short (I hate to bore ya, lol) I met someone and that pro longed the pain... ...........but I just cant get my wife outta my head.. I had a long term girlfriend who finished with me a couple of weeks ago but again Im expressing my undying love for my wife. Ive just told her whatever she wants I'll do it, renewing of vows, more children, counciling.... I just cant get her out of my head...

I've starteed drinking again heavily each night and will be on my own this Xmas as she's taking my babies to her aunties..

Im a personal trainer I dont even drink yet i find myself drunk every night and have a stackful of Diazepan calling me..

I'm so so scared i'll end up how i was before..

well that helped, lol

not feeling great as ya probably guessed, I just had a heart to heart but she had to go... busy I guess...

Right, lol

Better get off ya site, let the people who really need it get a look in...

Dont know who im speaking to but err... thanks (

hi there im daisy,

I also ahve suffered with depression and self harming.I went through some dark times just like you but please believe that things will get better tho it wont feel like it right now.You are so strong to have come so far on your own so be proud of that...and keep writing cos it really will help.Please seek some help,maybe counselling.This site will help you as you get advice from people hurting just like you.You need to concentrate on getting you better and not your wife.You long for things to be how they was i know but you need to get yourself better.There is life after all this you know and you will meet someone who accepts you for who you are and treats you how you deserve to be treated.Believe in yourself and your stregnth...if i can do it you can too xxxx

[RemmyHun]

Hey Remmy

Thats a good point you made, I've not really thought about that but I guess your right.

When Im at work I have to look after a lot of people who depend on me, and Im kinda fine when Im there. Its when I get home that I "crumble"

I think when Im out I have to put on a front, the big macho instructor, they cant be seen to be breaking up.

I've just never opened up or talked to anyone, I never had a close friend I could do this with and my first long time girlfriend I couldnt talk to.. just kept bottling things up.

Thanks loads for your reply anyway

You made me think... I dont do that very often smile.gif

Have a wonderful day

Clayton,

I know the facade well, eventually it becomes apart of you. And I also know how it is to get home and fall apart when none are looking, to try and figure out how to handle it all before it consumes you. It's over whelming just in general, just thinking the things you think, but twice as much when you doubt yourself and your ability to handle it. It's not that you can't Clayton, it's that you've not yet learned how.

People being close to you doesn't usually mean anything. I have a Twin, and I never talk to her, not about these things. I feel like she wont get it, or that she'll say things that'll make it worse. In either case, sometimes it's the people who know you least who can help you the most. The outside perspectives and unattatchment to you can be a huge help. Because the help they provide, it's more honest. More forthright. Or so my experience tells me.

Drugs and alcohol. They're temporary solutions to make it impossible to think, or easier to let things go. Mostly both. I drink a lot, and I've even drank to help ease pain, but it's never become a problem because I know it's like hiding. I'm not a hider. I don't think you are either. You need a self-goal. A personal objective you wish you accomplish. IE, getting back with your wife. Then you need to find out why it failed in the first place. And not why you THINK it failed, truly the reason behind it. If it's something you wont be able to get around, you need a new objective. Because beating yourself against a dead end gets you no where.

Idea. When you find yourself compelled to drink, what ever you intend to drink, cut it in half. Just do it. Don't think about it. Then while you're drinking, write. What ever comes to mind. Write it.What you feel, what you think, what you want to do, what you don't think you can do. Write it. You don't have to show anyone, this is for you. Then when you're sober, clear minded, and in a fair mood; read it. You'll be amazed at the things you discover about yourself.

Remmy.

RRoE #25- Listening to advice doesn’t always mean you have to take it, just consider it.

[JustClayton]

Hope you have a good day at work Clayton. Birthday going OK so far. Got that psyche appt later, will let you know how I get on. That is very ironic the job you do and the position you are in. It's a shame you don't feel comfortable sharing your poems as I bet they would be really good! But as long as you are writing them it doesn't matter if no-one ever sees them as long as it helps you. We all cope in different ways. Is good you have open access to your little ones must make it a bit easier knowing you can see them regularly.

Speak later and remember we are all here for you. xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

Hey Miss,

Hope things are going well and no houses wrecked by the little ones

Its my mums Birthday too as well.. I feel kinda bad as everyone is going out for a meal together.. except me

I did get an invite but I feel out of place.. I dont feel involved ..

So I'm here celebrating myself

Getting the hang of these smileys now

I brought a big card for my wife this Xmas and I've been writing in it each night (yes ok as you know I may of had a drink or two at the time)

I've wrote a few poems in there, copied a few and even wrote song lyrics from ...well I wont tell you which song, lol

Its strange how much your feelings change with a shandy or two.

Hope your appt goes well

Keep smiling ok :)

[JustClayton]

Hey Remmy

Thats a good point you made, I've not really thought about that but I guess your right.

When Im at work I have to look after a lot of people who depend on me, and Im kinda fine when Im there. Its when I get home that I "crumble"

I think when Im out I have to put on a front, the big macho instructor, they cant be seen to be breaking up.

I've just never opened up or talked to anyone, I never had a close friend I could do this with and my first long time girlfriend I couldnt talk to.. just kept bottling things up.

Thanks loads for your reply anyway

You made me think... I dont do that very often smile.gif

Have a wonderful day

Clayton,

I know the facade well, eventually it becomes apart of you. And I also know how it is to get home and fall apart when none are looking, to try and figure out how to handle it all before it consumes you. It's over whelming just in general, just thinking the things you think, but twice as much when you doubt yourself and your ability to handle it. It's not that you can't Clayton, it's that you've not yet learned how.

People being close to you doesn't usually mean anything. I have a Twin, and I never talk to her, not about these things. I feel like she wont get it, or that she'll say things that'll make it worse. In either case, sometimes it's the people who know you least who can help you the most. The outside perspectives and unattatchment to you can be a huge help. Because the help they provide, it's more honest. More forthright. Or so my experience tells me.

Drugs and alcohol. They're temporary solutions to make it impossible to think, or easier to let things go. Mostly both. I drink a lot, and I've even drank to help ease pain, but it's never become a problem because I know it's like hiding. I'm not a hider. I don't think you are either. You need a self-goal. A personal objective you wish you accomplish. IE, getting back with your wife. Then you need to find out why it failed in the first place. And not why you THINK it failed, truly the reason behind it. If it's something you wont be able to get around, you need a new objective. Because beating yourself against a dead end gets you no where.

Idea. When you find yourself compelled to drink, what ever you intend to drink, cut it in half. Just do it. Don't think about it. Then while you're drinking, write. What ever comes to mind. Write it.What you feel, what you think, what you want to do, what you don't think you can do. Write it. You don't have to show anyone, this is for you. Then when you're sober, clear minded, and in a fair mood; read it. You'll be amazed at the things you discover about yourself.

Remmy.

RRoE #25- Listening to advice doesn’t always mean you have to take it, just consider it.

This is the line that scares me...

" to try and figure out how to handle it all before it consumes you "

If I never had my past experiance I wouldnt be writing here now.. at the moment although Im drinking a lot I dont feel I need any help. But this is how it started last time and it scares me. It started with the drink, then anti depressants, drugs, self harming, then the colapsing waking up in various hospitals, then the mental home my doc tried so hard to get me into.

I think about it now and it scares me.. but instead of snapping out of it I see myself reaching for a drink... its crazy !!

I think if I can get through Xmas things would be better. Usualy I spend hundreds and hundreds byuing anything and everything. I put up 3 trees and all the tacky decorations you can think of... but this year ... nothing.

Hopefully next year

I hope things are cool with you and your having a great day

Thanks loads for your help and support x

[JustClayton]

Wow never thought about this before..

I never open up to anyone and am not expecting any help through here, maybe will help me just writing it down tho.

About 3 years ago my daughter told me another man was coming round to take mummy out.. lol wow that was a shock,to cut a long story short I moved out and headed downhill big time... Im a personal trainer so have always been fit and healthy but i turned to drink.. then drugs, anti depressants then started self harming... hey I even planned my funeral, went to the solicitors to sort out the will, that was it for me. My doctor tried desperatly to get me into a mental hospital but couldnt. Again cutting the story short (I hate to bore ya, lol) I met someone and that pro longed the pain... ...........but I just cant get my wife outta my head.. I had a long term girlfriend who finished with me a couple of weeks ago but again Im expressing my undying love for my wife. Ive just told her whatever she wants I'll do it, renewing of vows, more children, counciling.... I just cant get her out of my head...

I've starteed drinking again heavily each night and will be on my own this Xmas as she's taking my babies to her aunties..

Im a personal trainer I dont even drink yet i find myself drunk every night and have a stackful of Diazepan calling me..

I'm so so scared i'll end up how i was before..

well that helped, lol

not feeling great as ya probably guessed, I just had a heart to heart but she had to go... busy I guess...

Right, lol

Better get off ya site, let the people who really need it get a look in...

Dont know who im speaking to but err... thanks (

hi there im daisy,

I also ahve suffered with depression and self harming.I went through some dark times just like you but please believe that things will get better tho it wont feel like it right now.You are so strong to have come so far on your own so be proud of that...and keep writing cos it really will help.Please seek some help,maybe counselling.This site will help you as you get advice from people hurting just like you.You need to concentrate on getting you better and not your wife.You long for things to be how they was i know but you need to get yourself better.There is life after all this you know and you will meet someone who accepts you for who you are and treats you how you deserve to be treated.Believe in yourself and your stregnth...if i can do it you can too xxxx

Hey Daisy,

I went to counciling but it was terrible. I dont open up at the best of times and the tests and questions they kept asking I just couldnt handle.

I think a big problem is that I've always been with someone, I was married for 12 years so being on my own now is hard. I need someone, just a hug, a chat, just being close to someone

I got through my self harming and bad times bacause my wife took me back.. yeah we split up previously.. I dont think its gonna happen this time tho

Thanks loads for your reply

I hope things are ok with you x

[Roses]

Hello, it's me again! Luckily house in one piece and have put her new High School Musical bedding/curtains on and up so she is happy! She is HSM mad! Made number 5 cake last night and she loved that as well.

Been reading your replies to all our posts. The Xmas card is a really good idea putting your feelings in it over time will give her a real picture of your feelings. The fact that you've thought about it over a period of time shows commitment and thought for her. Love poems are so romantic...

I had the worst Xmas of my life last year having been release from hospital a week before and a house full of hubbie's family whom I don't even like. It was awful and I am dreading this year but have come to the conclusion what will be will be. I have to let go of last year and think about the future. This is very hard to do but perhaps you can draw strength and support from here and make it better. Yeah, councelling is something you have to be up for or it doesn't work. Just wait a bit and perhaps try again in 6 months or so. Perhaps you will feel better about it? Perhaps it was that you didn't gel with the councellor you had? I had one when I was under child psychiatry (many moons ago) and I always remember she wore knee high pencil skirts and Mary Poppins shoes and had THE hairiest legs in Chrisendon. I mean yeti!!! At 16 this is quite a distraction and we never hit it off. lol.

Anyway, I digress! I find being on my own very hard and have been in relationships since I was about 13! Obviously was puppy love but find tended to go from one to other and never be actually on my own. Been married nearly 9 years now and with him a lot longer. Guess it's hard standing alone when you are not sure who 'you' are. That's my feeling about it anyway. I'm hoping through talking to people I'll perhaps change my way of thinking so I feel better. Don't know but I'm droning on now you are probably asleep on your keyboard! xxxxxxxxxxxxx

[RemmyHun]

This is the line that scares me...

" to try and figure out how to handle it all before it consumes you "

If I never had my past experiance I wouldnt be writing here now.. at the moment although Im drinking a lot I dont feel I need any help. But this is how it started last time and it scares me. It started with the drink, then anti depressants, drugs, self harming, then the colapsing waking up in various hospitals, then the mental home my doc tried so hard to get me into.

I think about it now and it scares me.. but instead of snapping out of it I see myself reaching for a drink... its crazy !!

I think if I can get through Xmas things would be better. Usualy I spend hundreds and hundreds byuing anything and everything. I put up 3 trees and all the tacky decorations you can think of... but this year ... nothing.

Hopefully next year smile.gif

I hope things are cool with you and your having a great day

Thanks loads for your help and support x

Is is scary. Very scary. Though I never went through what you did, I do have an understanding of it.You can't expect yourself to "snap out of it" it doesn't work like that. It doesn't. There's no instant stopping. Small steps may take you longer to get to your destination, but you still end up in the same place, and the risk of you tripping and landing on your face is smaller. One day at a time Clayton.

As for myself, I'm here to learn. I'm here to lend a hand if I can. But mostly I'm here to get outside prospective on what I am. Reading what other people come up with based on the truths I provide helps me be more objective. Helps me sort through the mess of my mind. It also helps me learn more about people. But that's another story.

Remmy.