A Nasty Thing

[hummm_mabbe]

:trigger:

Hullo

Had a nasty therapy session today

My life has always followed a pattern: Meet people. Feel uncomfy around people. Feel misunderstood, try to be understood, make things worse. Teasing > rejection > total breakdown of communication and anger, I leave before it gets truly nasty. I feel heartbroken, depressed, worthless. Thoughts of suicide and self harm enter my head, and I either try to reinvent myself (construct a new fake mask that eliminates entire emotions, the ones that caused the problem) or hide myself away. EVERY relationship I have I expect to follow this pattern, and they always do. Intellectually I know somehow I make it happen lalalala but the reality is, somehow it DOES happen. Personality Disorder bread and butter. OK, I get this.

That is the same pattern I expect life to follow. I think that secretly I wait for 'it' to happen - the moment when they see me for the obnoxious, arrogant, repulsive, snidey horrible little man that I see myself as. I try to play the 'nice guy' and please people by being good and hiding my emotions so that they wont see my 'bad' side. I watch my anger to try not to let them see my horribleness. Yet somehow, it leaks out. It doesnt matter how hard I try, somehow its like a psychic message, that gets radiod into their brains, and then they attack. Somehow the more I try to stop it happening, the more it MAKES it happen.

I expect the same in therapy. Be nice. Dont get too angry. Use 'I feel' statements. But eventually I know it will happen.

Today, it 'happened'. I dont know how much was my over-reaction, probably all of it, but my T pointed out that she feels like I am critical. She suggested this comes across in relationships, which it probably does. But what ALWAYS happens is that, when it comes out, at the time I am actually feeling alone. I am feeling misunderstood. I am feeling frightened, scared. I need desperately for someone to see what I am feeling, but I cant make them see, and somehow in this crossfire instead I come across as nasty. I am told that I am bad, yet I cant see how - all I felt was loneliness, and the need to be understood, but somehow I have become the aggressor. I cant see past how scared Im feeling at the time, but I feel like I want someone to be able to stand back long enough from feeling snubbed or criticised by me, and to say "hang on - what are you really feeling? Why are you saying these things? Whats going on underneath? Are you hurting?"

Today I got triggered totally. Even the tiniest criticism sets me off, and today felt like a huge criticism. My T seemed to 'become' my mum at that moment. Within a few minutes I felt panic, rage, despair and depression. When I left the session, I had the strongest impulse to self-harm and thoughts about suicide. I remained depressed and lost for 4 hours. "I've done it again, and now things will go downhill, and I will have to leave. There is no way I can ever change".

But maybe, I NEEDED this to happen. I was convinced it would, and until it did, I felt on edge anticipating it. I had to be on guard, watch my behaviour, watch her behaviour, for any clue, for months. I could never really be myself - I couldnt let what I was feeling out. It had to be translated into therapy-speak. This is the point in the past where I would think "thats it - now its the final downward slope to complete brokenness. I must get away from them before they can do it to me". The point where I start shutting parts of myself away, start behaving totally differently, and slowly build a resentment that leads to more confrontation, anger and near-psychotic outbursts of rage. This is my pattern.

But maybe now I have a chance to live out the pattern in a different way. Ive got the worst part out the way - she has 'seen' the real me. Do I choose to change into a 'different person', bury behaviours, demand I become psychic - or do I just dare to be 'me', with all the flaws that are so obvious? Do I risk being that terribly flawed and shameful person in front of her, and wait to see if she can 'cope' with the terrible thing that I am, and perhaps, by living through it instead of attacking and then running, heal from it?

When I got home, still feeling depressed, I picked up my Rubiks cube that has been annoying the hell out of me for the last month. In some ways it had become symbolic of my recovery, because even with the manual it felt like I still couldnt get past the final step. Tonight, I solved it.

Perhaps I should take that as a sign?

[Rael]

i think its great, not that you had to experience this feeling, but that it happened and you find yourself in a position, recognizing that alternatives and making a choice. i think you probably know what people are going to say, dont put on the masks, go back and be who you are. there may be parts that you dislike or feel uncomfortable being, or people seeing, but they are part and parcel of what makes you up. no one is so blind that they believe that anyone is a saint, we all have our bad sides and perceived flaws. the difference comes between the people who stand up and admit that yes this is who they are, good and bad.

your therapist is most likely going to be somewhat relieved that this has happened, it shows you coming out, in a way maybe it shows you are comfortable enough for it to have come out. see, me im stuck at the stage of it all going on inside and not a single person having a clue its going on. much as it would horrify me to have people see it slip out, for me to have allowed the walls to drift enough for it to come through shows some amount of comfort, you may not have wanted it to come out, but the defences werent as strong as you would have once maintained.

ok think im starting to ramble now and not sure this is any use. basically, you may not have wanted it to happen but now you have a chance to face that fear, and im pretty certain when i say that i cant see your therapist being horrified by it. it will be hard to go back and not try to put the walls up, but i think you can do it. and yes i think you should take the Rubiks cube as a sign

xxx

[daisy duck]

Hiya hmmmmmmm....you have faced so much recently !!!I think you should be proud that you have.Maybe you needed to face all those emotions today.How are you now?

Def take the cube as a sign.... after today maybe your mind is clearer than ever???

x

[hummm_mabbe]

i think its great, not that you had to experience this feeling, but that it happened and you find yourself in a position, recognizing that alternatives and making a choice. i think you probably know what people are going to say, dont put on the masks, go back and be who you are. there may be parts that you dislike or feel uncomfortable being, or people seeing, but they are part and parcel of what makes you up. no one is so blind that they believe that anyone is a saint, we all have our bad sides and perceived flaws. the difference comes between the people who stand up and admit that yes this is who they are, good and bad.

your therapist is most likely going to be somewhat relieved that this has happened, it shows you coming out, in a way maybe it shows you are comfortable enough for it to have come out. see, me im stuck at the stage of it all going on inside and not a single person having a clue its going on. much as it would horrify me to have people see it slip out, for me to have allowed the walls to drift enough for it to come through shows some amount of comfort, you may not have wanted it to come out, but the defences werent as strong as you would have once maintained.

ok think im starting to ramble now and not sure this is any use. basically, you may not have wanted it to happen but now you have a chance to face that fear, and im pretty certain when i say that i cant see your therapist being horrified by it. it will be hard to go back and not try to put the walls up, but i think you can do it. and yes i think you should take the Rubiks cube as a sign

xxx

Hi Rael

Nooo what you say is ALWAYS helpful, very much so, prolly cuz you are my twin

Reading that made me realise something. As I became more and more uncomfortable in the session, incidents with my mum started coming to me. Angers that I had felt at the time. I sorta went from withdrawn, and then worked up to enraged - so i think you are right, somehow there is a comfort with this stuff, or perhaps just a pressure that has built that means it HAS to come out. It feels sorta like the pressure of needing her to 'see how bad I am' and get the nasty bit out in the open.

I am scared, because now I realise I can no longer control what happens. I have to let whatever happens, be, because I have to see that I can be 'found out' and still accepted, and I cant do that if I retreat into masks and resentment. I t feels like I have to actually go right ahead and just be that person I dont like some more, and that is frightening. I am scared she will not handle it right and will just punish me, instead of asking me the question - whats really going on inside?

I have another appt next week, I am going to be so nervous.

[hummm_mabbe]

Hiya hmmmmmmm....you have faced so much recently !!!I think you should be proud that you have.Maybe you needed to face all those emotions today.How are you now?

Def take the cube as a sign.... after today maybe your mind is clearer than ever???

x

At the moment I still feel upset that it has 'happened again', and its scary because I realise its now in my therapists hands. I cant CONTROL anymore, I have to let go, and I dont like that.

I guess because I still think she will punish, reject and hate me, and how I will feel if she does. Ive had a therapist say "I cant help you, youre beyond helping" before, and its excruciating.

[Rael]

from what you've said before i think it is most likely she will ask the question.

ok so you cant control her reaction, you can control whether you go in and let it be though (which i think would help). also its getting you one step closer to learning how to control the feelings without locking them up behind a mask, if it is that things have built up so much they had to come out then that could be working out ways to let things out as they crop up, so that pressure doesnt get a chance to build so much.

if you really think she could do the punishy thing instead of asking could you prepare a card or piece of paper briefly saying this, that way it doesnt have to go so far as to upset you or risk things getting tense, but if you feel things going the wrong way you can hand the paper over and she will understand.

more

xxx

[hummm_mabbe]

from what you've said before i think it is most likely she will ask the question.

ok so you cant control her reaction, you can control whether you go in and let it be though (which i think would help). also its getting you one step closer to learning how to control the feelings without locking them up behind a mask, if it is that things have built up so much they had to come out then that could be working out ways to let things out as they crop up, so that pressure doesnt get a chance to build so much.

if you really think she could do the punishy thing instead of asking could you prepare a card or piece of paper briefly saying this, that way it doesnt have to go so far as to upset you or risk things getting tense, but if you feel things going the wrong way you can hand the paper over and she will understand.

more

xxx

Sorry Im confuzzled, what might she ask me? I got a bit losted

EDIT: Oh, the "whats going on inside" question? I am being slowww ... ^_^

[Rael]

:lol: you were hoping she would ask you the question whats really going on inside

xxx

edit: nevermind you got it :lol:

[Roses]

I guess we all have a sort of yin and yang thing going on with a flipside to our emotions. Problem is when we have mh issues we don't always know how to control the flipside and it can trigger all sorts of emotions and feelings and I guess your t will be working to help you to express your feelings in a way that is more positive. This is probably where she was going with the comment. Is good that this has happened. Once it's out there it can be discussed and faced and hopefully you will move on to a happier, yet expressive, you.

As you know I am currently being 'tweaked' and 'prodded' and am expecting a severe reaction if it goes on much longer. Guess might be a good thing too.

Big hugs sweetheart. xxxxxxxxxxxxxx

[hummm_mabbe]

you were hoping she would ask you the question whats really going on inside

xxx

Ah ok

Yeah, thats what I feel like I need. I dunno if she picked up on how strongly I feel I need that, or if it got a bit lost. I know that with schema, one thing they try to do is always link the current problems with the past events, and I dunno I guess I feel like she does this a bit too much, and is kinna 'explaining me to me' when in fact I want to be feeling, want to be feeling sad. I want her to make it ok for me to feel sad, almost to make me see that I WAS hurting, and make it ok for it to come out. I cant do that when shes 'explianing' because that just tends to make me angry, when I want to feel sad.

We agreed that the aim is to get to that sad part of me. At the end of the session, again I had that "Ok I feel like I just had an argument, but Im not sure what I was getting angry about, or if I should have, or what .. swirly swirly". In the past this often meant I was being emotionally manipulated, and I dunno, mabbe I am on the lookout for it ... I did say to her "I feel like you are actually angry but are trying to hide it, by clothing it in therapy words. I feel like if you are angry, then I want you to just come out and say it and not dance around it".

Of course, if she wasnt angry, which she said she wasnt, then theres nothing to come out and say ... ohhh its soo fucking HARD. Its no wonder I went a bit mad, emotionally I end up tied in such complicated knots, and in the end I just want to hide and cry. Its like being stuck in a tiny soundproofed cage.

[hummm_mabbe]

I guess we all have a sort of yin and yang thing going on with a flipside to our emotions. Problem is when we have mh issues we don't always know how to control the flipside and it can trigger all sorts of emotions and feelings and I guess your t will be working to help you to express your feelings in a way that is more positive. This is probably where she was going with the comment. Is good that this has happened. Once it's out there it can be discussed and faced and hopefully you will move on to a happier, yet expressive, you.

As you know I am currently being 'tweaked' and 'prodded' and am expecting a severe reaction if it goes on much longer. Guess might be a good thing too.

Big hugs sweetheart. xxxxxxxxxxxxxx

Yes I think thats kind of what it was like, like it built up and got tweaked out of me. I almost resent having it 'taken' from me, but part of me is glad it came out. The prollem is that I think she realised that she needs to be a bit more forceful with me, and mabbe she picked the wrong session or way to so that. Suddenly I saw her as punishey person, and that brought out my punishy side, and I started abusing myself internally. It was a full-on trigger, felt horrible for the whole 50 minutes But part of me felt like I deserved it, I deserved to be punished - that was a small relief in a way - the feeling of being punished. Mabbe thats why the self-hamrie thing came up too? I only ever did it once, but the thought of it comes up, just out of the blue. I guess its me punishing me.

I dunno, didnt feel nice at all but mabbe its what I needed, after all we need to show our full selves in therapy I guess, including (mabbe especially) the crazy bits. Today I felt VERY borderliney.

[Rael]

is it something you could bring up with her, that sometimes you need to say or work through things yourself instead of her explaining things, that maybe she could look at it as seeing how you make the links rather than just having her tell you. you could say its good for you because 1) it lets you get thoughts and feelings out and 2) she can see how you perceive things and if and how you link it back. sounds like you get frustrated when you dont get a chance to say something, like being interrupted when you are talking, its something that is bound to wind you up.

sometimes when i react to things it doesnt mean they are actually happening, just that im in a position where i would maybe expect it to happen so i automatically react as if it was actually happening, kinda like getting the first punch in when the other person never intended to hit you in the first place.

xxx

edit: never try to do a) and b ) examples cos if you dont put the space in the b becomes very annoying, ahem sorry i digress

[Roses]

But if you feel it you can learn to make it feel better. You can't work on something you can't see. But is tough. xxx

[hummm_mabbe]

is it something you could bring up with her, that sometimes you need to say or work through things yourself instead of her explaining things, that maybe she could look at it as seeing how you make the links rather than just having her tell you. you could say its good for you because 1) it lets you get thoughts and feelings out and 2) she can see how you perceive things and if and how you link it back. sounds like you get frustrated when you dont get a chance to say something, like being interrupted when you are talking, its something that is bound to wind you up.

sometimes when i react to things it doesnt mean they are actually happening, just that im in a position where i would maybe expect it to happen so i automatically react as if it was actually happening, kinda like getting the first punch in when the other person never intended to hit you in the first place.

xxx

edit: never try to do a) and b ) examples cos if you dont put the space in the b becomes very annoying, ahem sorry i digress

Yea I get frsutrated when I feel she hasnt understood me, and so I pontificate around the point, getting irritated but trying not to show it, trying to make her understand. Because when she understands, it feels like a relief. Mabbe its just a simple case of I actually realised finally what I need from her, like I knew that 'explaining' wasnt helpful, but didnt really know WHAT I needed.

I want her to suck my sadness out into the open! I want her to do that face that some people do, and suddenly you go "wha!" and all the emotions come. But then, most of the time I cant even look at her .... Ohhhhhhhhhh I am so my own worst enemy, It must be hell being my therapist

You are right about the pre-emptive reaction - the whole time thats how I was reacting, like it was happening, and then reality gets blurred a bit. I dunno. Horrid.

[hummm_mabbe]

But if you feel it you can learn to make it feel better. You can't work on something you can't see. But is tough. xxx

Thats so true, likw if its never triggered I cant ever do anything with it ... I dunno, I am so afraid of feeling that way, its so horrible. I just sat there, silent, not knowing what to do. I felt like I did when I was little, like whatever I said would make it worse, and so I just kept my mouth shut. I think that was when I needed her to go deepr with me, cuz as long as she kept trying to 'explain' me, it felt like she was hiding something ... I dunno. Tis my paranoia cha cha cha ... I just felt so like I had to be punished. So ashamed.

How are you being prodded? What do you feel like will happen and things?

[Roses]

Well, am having cbt for specific issue of self harm and we spent 3 weeks filling in sheets at home and then discussing it to see if there were patterns or whatever. Last week was first 'proper' session and then a couple of days later came revelation to consultant about the hallucinations etc... which had come from the work I was doing with psyche. I mean deep stuff cos I held onto that since early teens (classic psychosis stuff) thinking it was just me. So I came to the realisation that the cbt isn't just about the self-harm and then I realised she knows that and is playing me so now the gates are wide open to discuss anything and I feel like a dancing bear. She gives me enough to draw me out and then when I'm out I feel exposed (like you said to me before) but eventually it's all gonna come flooding out and I don't know what is going to happen. My mind has been blocking stuff out since I was 7 so what is 26 years of stuff gonna' do to me? I think I shall go insane if I'm not careful.

[jades]

hey rossie i relate when im prodded i sritch alters and become very venomous and spew hate i dont like that about myself but its my bodies natural defense mechonism and i realize and except that but i do brlieve that can be taken from me someday xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

[hummm_mabbe]

Well, am having cbt for specific issue of self harm and we spent 3 weeks filling in sheets at home and then discussing it to see if there were patterns or whatever. Last week was first 'proper' session and then a couple of days later came revelation to consultant about the hallucinations etc... which had come from the work I was doing with psyche. I mean deep stuff cos I held onto that since early teens (classic psychosis stuff) thinking it was just me. So I came to the realisation that the cbt isn't just about the self-harm and then I realised she knows that and is playing me so now the gates are wide open to discuss anything and I feel like a dancing bear. She gives me enough to draw me out and then when I'm out I feel exposed (like you said to me before) but eventually it's all gonna come flooding out and I don't know what is going to happen. My mind has been blocking stuff out since I was 7 so what is 26 years of stuff gonna' do to me? I think I shall go insane if I'm not careful.

So they are using CBT for your psycha-mosis thingies? I dunno how it would work - how do you rationally challenge a hallucination, or are they looking for triggers that set em off? Sorry to sound like a lab tech but that sounds interesting to know how it would work.

However, there is a little lab mouse who is getting poked and hurting in all this too, and having stuff like that must be extremely hard to want to share, especially if its been buried away for so long. I suppose its one of those things that you feel no-one could ever understand, and mabbe has shame attached to it (mabbe shame causes it, and then you end up in a vicious cirlce of having it, feeling ashamed, and then having it some more? I dunno, guessing).

Today I feel a bit calmer. I think some part of me is happy that she has been assertive, or mabbe just happy that 'the event' has finally been and gone. When I was leaving the office she said "I want you to try to realise when your schemas are going to be telling you that I hate you and dont want to see you anymore throughout the week, and I want you to know that I dont feel that way". I suppose its the total opposite of the sotry of my life, which has always been "youre a freak, f**k off until your normal"

[hummm_mabbe]

hey rossie i relate when im prodded i sritch alters and become very venomous and spew hate i dont like that about myself but its my bodies natural defense mechonism and i realize and except that but i do brlieve that can be taken from me someday xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

I dont have alters, but I very much see my 'modes' as my T calls them. They almost feel like different eprsonalities, but they are not quite. As you say its a natural defense, and without it its scary. Mind you, its scary WITH it too :(

[Roses]

Is good that she sees what you are feeling and extended out a friendly hand to say is OK, I know you may feel you don't want to see me again - but I want to see you. Is nice.

No, the CBT is for self-harm but what I was saying was the more we talk to more I realise is not about the self-harm is about triggers and motivation and the whole chi-bang not just the self-harm and it was with my consultant psychiatrist (have cbt with psychologist) I had the revelation bout hallucinations etc...

[AndyL]

Ross, I'm probably not going to tell you anything you don't already know--god knows you're the most well-read person concerning your issues I've seen--but I haven't seen it mentioned in this thread, so I thought I'd give it a go.

Clearly you were projecting on your therapist. For those who don't know, projecting is when you throw an emotion at someone--many times anger--and the person internalizes your emotion and then, many times, throws it back at you. It happens in life and happens all the time in therapy. So what happened to Ross is that something triggered him, he got pissed off (in my country that means angry, not drunk), and expressed his anger. Therapists understand this phenomenon and are always ready for it. It explains why she said she wasn't angry even though she may have felt it a little because it's really hard to shrug it off. It may be why, Ross, you sensed she may have been angry even though she said she wasn't. Borderlines are sensitive people.

What it means to me is that you're halfway there. Thanks to this session you recognize the trigger, saw its result, and now have a realization about how you react to that trigger and what you can do the next time it happens. And, if you're like me, you may fail. But if you know what happened, eventually you'll catch on. In DBT, one of the things they teach is to, if you can, describe the emotion as it's happening. That puts you outside of it and allows you to push what we called the "pause" button. Hard skill. Takes practice. Try it on less intense emotions and you may be ready the next time something big comes up.

Hope this helps,

Andy

[hummm_mabbe]

Ross, I'm probably not going to tell you anything you don't already know--god knows you're the most well-read person concerning your issues I've seen--but I haven't seen it mentioned in this thread, so I thought I'd give it a go.

Clearly you were projecting on your therapist. For those who don't know, projecting is when you throw an emotion at someone--many times anger--and the person internalizes your emotion and then, many times, throws it back at you. It happens in life and happens all the time in therapy. So what happened to Ross is that something triggered him, he got pissed off (in my country that means angry, not drunk), and expressed his anger. Therapists understand this phenomenon and are always ready for it. It explains why she said she wasn't angry even though she may have felt it a little because it's really hard to shrug it off. It may be why, Ross, you sensed she may have been angry even though she said she wasn't. Borderlines are sensitive people.

What it means to me is that you're halfway there. Thanks to this session you recognize the trigger, saw its result, and now have a realization about how you react to that trigger and what you can do the next time it happens. And, if you're like me, you may fail. But if you know what happened, eventually you'll catch on. In DBT, one of the things they teach is to, if you can, describe the emotion as it's happening. That puts you outside of it and allows you to push what we called the "pause" button. Hard skill. Takes practice. Try it on less intense emotions and you may be ready the next time something big comes up.

Hope this helps,

Andy

Hi Andy

Ta for the suggestions

This episode was the first time it has happened with her, but in fact I think this is an example of when I SHOULDNT be trying to control it with DBT or mindfulness methods. Its a part of me that needs to be brought out into the open in a safe environment, and I need to see that others can experience "me at my worst" and still want to be around me. This acceptance means that next time, I will feel less tense, and there will be less fuel to cause it to happen. If I only ever try to manage it with distress tolerance, then I never get through that stage. As it is actually the fear of getting into that state that actually provides the energy to cause it, her acceptance of it means, paradoxically, that I am no longer afraid of it. The energy behind it ceases to be. Instead of sounding like "go ahead and be an asshole all the time Ross", it actually feels more like "I want to know whats going on underneath, and I see that this anger is not what you mean to convey". This different message is more soothing than "you need to learn to control that", and actually calms rather than making me think "if I keep practicing these methods, eventually my life will be ok".

Always with distress tolerance and mindfulness was the sensation of "ok Im getting away with it, but eventually they will see what Im REALLY like and then it will all be the same". This is why behavioural therapies, mindfulness and so on have not been successful for me, and why I decided to look outside of them. Sometimes I go back to them, but it seems that once the novelty has worn off they lose their effectiveness. Again its the manage it vs cure it question, and for me I feel like I am at the 'cure it' stage, having been through the 'try to manage it' stage umpteen times and relapsed.

The management methods are great for the big wide world as an interim measure (which many behavioural therapists would admit is the remit of these therapy types), but sealing the emotions up behind technique in therapy, I think right now, is the opposite of what I am trying to achieve, which is to heal them once and for all. Thats the plan, anyway ... -_-

[AndyL]

Cripes, Ross, you're a better man than I. Keep on it--I'm in your corner.

[walker]

dear Ross

it is amazing to see you battling through this,

and to have you share it with us

it makes so much sense to me, although i am not sure i will ever have your strength

your therapist knew how her words would impact, she saw the pain and confusion it stirred in you

but she has such a deep faith in you, in your strength, and desire to heal, that she took that risk,

she believes you can do it Ross

she wants to be the person to help you do this

and she KNOWS YOU CAN

we are all gathered behind you

watching

many of us hiding, cowering, shaking, for the fear we see in our own lives,

I am so proud for you

so proud

t xx

[jenga]

Hi Ross

I have read most of what you have written here, and along with the others, agree that you are doing some great work and making progress.

I understand what you mean about the behaviorial things not being the only answers for you here, but I am just curious about 2 things:

1. What do you think IS the "cure it" stage you mention, and

2. What do you mean by the statement "which is to heal them up once and for all"

Thanks

Jenga