Sexual Abuse And Shame

[hummm_mabbe]

Hullo

I read another little passage today and thought of many folkies here so I wanted to type it out. It night be triggery because it deals with sexual abuse issues. The guy is talking about the different ways we view ourselves when we feel shame. There is The Diminshed self, The Defective Self, and the Socially Repellent Self. Here he talks about that feeling as it relates to a person who was sexually abused. I thought this passage might serve to provide some insight for folks struggling to come to terms with similar events.

The socially repellent 'self'

The third way the 'self' is experienced in shame is as socially repellent. If the 'elephant man' felt ashamed, this is the way he would have construed himself. If you view yourself as socially repellent when you feel ashamed, you tend to think that others will show disgust towards you in an active way or will turn away from you in disgust. People who are ashamed about bodily blemishes and so on tend to view themselves as socially repellent and tend to think others will be disgusted wuth them.

An example of this type of self-depreciation can be found in the case of Bernice in the case study. Bernice considered that if she showed her body too much then people would discover her secret - that she was sexually abused by her uncle as a child - and would be revolted by her body. Here it is clear that Bernice feels she would be socially abhorrent if people were to learn of her secret. If they did discover that she was abused, then Bernice thinks they would be revolted by her body and turn away from her in disgust.

Bernice also considers herself as defective for not stopping her uncle from abusing her, and correspondingly sees others as flawless beings who would blame her for her failure. The implication is that they would have been able to stop their uncle from abusing them if they were in Bernice's shoes. She considers herself DEFECTIVE (another type of self-depreciation) when she focuses on her inability to stop the abuse. However, when she focuses on her body as the potential signal of her shame to others she views herself as socially repellent.

[Paris]

interesting thankyou for sharing it

[Rael]

very interesting on many levels, sometimes i dont even think it was just the stuff done that caused it in me, bullying also had a big impact and its something ive thought deeply about and im fairly sure that i would feel the same way about myself (notably the two mentioned) even if the bullying had been there without the other stuff (even now i cant say any words relating to it so i rely on others to take an educated guess sorry).

i appreciate you sharing that and would be interested to read more, was it from a website?

xxx

[jades]

for along time afterward i made myself fat so i was undesireable almost like a fat suit to hide in evennow when i feel unsafe i stuff myself i only stay an attractive weight when i feel secure and safe im always grosssy undrer weight or over for once im just right and the attention makes me nervous

[daisy duck]

Its really interesting to read.........

I do concentrate on the fact that i could of stopped what happened,been stronger and not put myself in a vunrable position.Rather than focus on the fact he was wrong.

I think if i told anyone that they would see me differently..like i was dirty.I don't think this of anyone else so i dont know why i think it of myself.

Like i didnt tell my ex what happened to me and i was with him for years,i think i thought he wouldnt want to touch me then.

So i guess i was/am ashamed at the fact it happened.

xxx

thanks for sharing it

[hummm_mabbe]

This is another case of Rossie making himself cry! I read your responses and once agin my heartie bit went bang, ow. Splat.

I dont totally know what to say, except that I hope that in some way people are all coming to see, little by little, that it wasnt their fault, whatever the abuse was. You could not have stopped it, even if you had wanted to, and if anyone else maintains they could, then they perhaps do not know themselves very well. No one can say what they will do in a life-threatening situation until they are in it, and no one is in a position to judge others. Compassion however EVERYONE should give, and it seems for us, it was absent.

I also identify very well with Magical Fairy Wizardess Rael when you say about bullying. Yanno what, you have just made me realise something that I never had - I was bullied for years, prolly all my life but especially junior and secondary school (junior high and high school to you americaw peepulz) and also felt 'outside' in infant school and kindergaretn ... (yeah I remember that far back!!).

What I didnt realise until just now was that I BLAME MYSELF. I tell myself I should have been able to stop it, that I should have 'grown a thicker skin', 'stood up for myself', 'stop being so sensitive' (thanks mum). I DID STAND UP FOR MYSELF! But it never worked, it just got worse - and no one helped, no one belived me. I was dismissed and blamed. Mum, you assumed I was on drugs because I was so depressed, emotionally out of control and angry. You sent me for a DRUGS TEST when you should have been supporting me ... but no. The bullying went on .... and its followed me around ever since.

Of course that has become my shame, my inner black core that no one must see, but it was put there by others in the first place (family) and then built on and perpetuated by the rest of life. And I have blamed myself at every turn for it, "I was too weak - no one else would have put up with it".

Perhaps those "no one elses" had a supportive family, who listened, and soothed, and provided guidance and advice, instead of shaming and invalidation? Perhaps THATS why "no one else" would have put up with it? And even now, I know there were MANY boys who were bullied, some who commited suicide - so that "no one" has become pretty thin. One of the worst bullies was physically abused by his family, and he took it out on me ... perhaps that means he is 'tough' and has a 'thick skin'? Perhaps you should have hit me round the head a little more than you actually did, and then I too could have become 'tough' like him? Have a fucking gold medal for your parenting and psychological skills.

Wow these TOXIC messages that follow us around ....

Rael MAgical Fairy Wizardess :wub:

[daisy duck]

This is another case of Rossie making himself cry! I read your responses and once agin my heartie bit went bang, ow. Splat.

I dont totally know what to say, except that I hope that in some way people are all coming to see, little by little, that it wasnt their fault, whatever the abuse was. You could not have stopped it, even if you had wanted to, and if anyone else maintains they could, then they perhaps do not know themselves very well. No one can say what they will do in a life-threatening situation until they are in it, and no one is in a position to judge others. Compassion however EVERYONE should give, and it seems for us, it was absent.

I also identify very well with Magical Fairy Wizardess Rael when you say about bullying. Yanno what, you have just made me realise something that I never had - I was bullied for years, prolly all my life but especially junior and secondary school (junior high and high school to you americaw peepulz) and also felt 'outside' in infant school and kindergaretn ... (yeah I remember that far back!!).

What I didnt realise until just now was that I BLAME MYSELF. I tell myself I should have been able to stop it, that I should have 'grown a thicker skin', 'stood up for myself', 'stop being so sensitive' (thanks mum). I DID STAND UP FOR MYSELF! But it never worked, it just got worse - and no one helped, no one belived me. I was dismissed and blamed. Mum, you assumed I was on drugs because I was so depressed, emotionally out of control and angry. You sent me for a DRUGS TEST when you should have been supporting me ... but no. The bullying went on .... and its followed me around ever since.

Of course that has become my shame, my inner black core that no one must see, but it was put there by others in the first place (family) and then built on and perpetuated by the rest of life. And I have blamed myself at every turn for it, "I was too weak - no one else would have put up with it".

Perhaps those "no one elses" had a supportive family, who listened, and soothed, and provided guidance and advice, instead of shaming and invalidation? Perhaps THATS why "no one else" would have put up with it? And even now, I know there were MANY boys who were bullied, some who commited suicide - so that "no one" has become pretty thin. One of the worst bullies was physically abused by his family, and he took it out on me ... perhaps that means he is 'tough' and has a 'thick skin'? Perhaps you should have hit me round the head a little more than you actually did, and then I too could have become 'tough' like him? Have a fucking gold medal for your parenting and psychological skills.

Wow these TOXIC messages that follow us around ....

Rael MAgical Fairy Wizard

xxxx

[Roses]

So, is this why I feel fat when I'm not? Am I feeling it cos I want others to believe it? Confused.... help.

[Roses]

Is hubbie who says I'm not fat but I think I am.

[jades]

roses i thik i feel that way as i feel my shame is on the outside m=no matter what i do so i feel fat and unattractive maybe u feel the same way that u repulse people caus eof what u have been thru and maybe (ido) blame yourself like a fat suit put on as a repulasant to keep all away does that make sence fir u?

[daisy duck]

How we view ourselves is sometimes completeley different to what other people see.You see fat...cos maybe you dont like yourself at the moment...when your husband who loves you just see's you for who you really are.We seem to be blind to our qualities and focus on the bad things about us.

I think im boring...but i know others dont feel that way....sometimes i feel i dont deserve to be happy...but if anyone else thought that i would tell them everyone deserves happiness.Its like we punish ourselves.

Roses youve said on a few occasions that you are bad...that you dont deserve things...but i see a caring person in you who is giving,loving and wants the best for her family.

Its time we focused on our good points and stopped punishing ourselves.

xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

[hummm_mabbe]

Is hubbie who says I'm not fat but I think I am.

Hullo Roses

This is more my own theory on it, which kinna takes bits from lots of sources, but with BDD and ED's I think that the body image becomes the screen onto which the deeper feelings of shame and defectiveness are projected.

With shame, people want to get away from that shame. Some poeple use anger, some make others feel bad, some use substances, some may use self harm. In all of these things there tends to be a sense of relief from the central feeling of shame, and it gives the person a sense of control. However, as long as the shame is there, the feelings will creep back, and the need to do whatever it is you do resurfaces. There may be added shame caused by the thing you do, especially if others are unsupportive, which for eating disorders is often very important.

I think that in ED's, you see yourself as fat, because it is the outward projection of the feeling of dreadful shame inside. The feeling of shame, and your mirror image, become bound up. When you binge or purge there is the sense that you can have some control over it, and perhaps even a sense that you are punishing yourself for being bad (eg in self harm). There are elements of control and relief bound up in it. But of course, it doesnt address the central feelings of shame and worthlessness, and so the cycle continues. The shame never goes, and the ED remains. Thats why I often think that programs desgined only to get eg anorexia sufferers back-to-weight fail in the long term, because they do not address the underlying issues.

I tend to see all the different 'disorders' as being the unique way that we all deal with these things, and its life events that guide us down a particular path, a bit like chaos theory. If a girl feels ashamed enough in general of herself, but is also given messages that she needs to be thin to be wanted, or is told she is fat, or is compared to siblings / others who are thin and who seem happy and desired, then that may be enough to make them start to think in these terms. Its often the case that these things kind of evolve, that is, you werent ED free one day and then suddenly you have an ED, there may have been a period of experimentation also.

[jades]

i think thats true rossie but i also wear my shame as a suit on the outside like my skin for all to see and it makes me feel im fat and undesirable to all all the time no matter what the scales say they call it body dimorofia i had people in aa tell me how thin i was and i thought oh tey ar elieing to me what do u think roses?

[hummm_mabbe]

i think thats true rossie but i also wear my shame as a suit on the outside like my skin for all to see and it makes me feel im fat and undesirable to all all the time no matter what the scales say they call it body dimorofia i had people in aa tell me how thin i was and i thought oh tey ar elieing to me what do u think roses?

Is it sort of like a pre-emtpive strike? Like "I already know you think Im awful, and so I am going make it so obvious that you dont have to point it out"? Or perhaps taking on their comments? Like "right fine, if you think im terrible, then I am going to make sure everyone sees it"?

I guess that kinna fits with what I have found in me. Some thing I 'surrender' to, like give in to it and live it. Some things I avoid - I hide away. And some things I overcompensate for - that is try to act like the opposite is true.

Maybe that giving into it thing you describe is surrendering to the feeling of shame, saying "well this is how I am"? Mabbe that is 'surrender', and binge / purge is more like avoidance? These three - surrender, avoidance and overcoompensation are the three major ways that psychologists have identified that people deal with emotional pain. Substance use is avoidance / escape, and folks tend to use a mix of different approaches at different times.

[jades]

yeah i so dont want anyone to get near me cause of my fear and shame if i feel threatened i run or lose or gain too much weight as a repulsant my self image is all tamgeled in what happened to me abuse wise and i cant seperate it it scares me to get attention and im getting alot lately so as u can imagine im scared shitless

[hummm_mabbe]

yeah i so dont want anyone to get near me cause of my fear and shame if i feel threatened i run or lose or gain too much weight as a repulsant my self image is all tamgeled in what happened to me abuse wise and i cant seperate it it scares me to get attention and im getting alot lately so as u can imagine im scared shitless

If they get close, what is it you are scared they will see?

What will they do when they see this thing? What will happen?

[jades]

im scared they will see right thru me and see how i caused the abuse that i didnt do enough to stop it that i stopped fighting it that i was provoking it by the way i looked and if they see that theyll think im a whore and then theyll know theyll know youst how horrible a person a person i am that im a despicabel whore and deserved what i got and have no place to complain no one will want to be my friend then

[walker]

i think i need to say some things here

i have had times wehn i felt good about my body

they lasted moments

thn they crashed

i did not get fatter till i left home - left their tight controls

but why lose weight now

i know when i was younger and thinner, i felt fat

i felt uncomfortable with my body

so if i lost wieght now i still would

i am very ashamed of myself, physically, very very ashamed - and if i dare to feel good, that makes me feel even more ashamed

i like the winter as i can hide behind clothes

for most opeople here this will be nothing - but my family were/are very sexually repressed - i am messed up

when i got engaged at 19 my mum discover i was on the pill - she didnt speak to me for 2 days - she treatd me with disgust and contempt like some sort of filthy whore- i had failed - i was a faulty person, i was weak -

but we werent even doin it

the pill was the only thing i could find that would allow me the safety even to touch someone - but the shame and guilt was still almost intolerable

as i grew up i was being TOLD it was all natural and normal, but i could not touch or look or feel - and i was watched closely - and if i was discovered - i was made to feel filthy and bad -

i allowed some things to happen

nothing to most people

too too much for me

and i have paid the price evr since

i am bad - i am dirty - i am disgusting - i am weak - i cannot be trusted - i am scared - i am deeply deeply ashamed -

i am not so sure i will be able to leav this here without deletin most of it

i wil try

[Roses]

Thanks Rossie-bunny. You make a lot of sense. Am just a bit confuddled today.

Daisy - thank you for you kind words and I will try and be more positive. Sounds a good way to go.

Jades - I was diagnosed with anorexic symptoms when I was 14. I was diagnosed with body dysmorphia when was 15. I am a UK size 10 on top and 14 on bottom. So that's US 7/8 and 10/12? But when I look in the mirror I see something different and I can feel the fat hanging off me and see it hanging off me. I am now told this is to do with my psychosis and hallucinations.

[daisy duck]

For me losing weight was about control...as i had lost control of everything else in y life.I could at least control my weight.

My shameful thoughts are to do with sex....

if i get turned on ect... i feel so bad for it.Like i shouldnt because of what happened to me.Like how could i possibly WANT sex?

Can i just say ross....thanks for the thread....ive learned loads

xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

[jades]

roses i totally undresatand i see the fat hanging off me too and am always tempted to judt cut it off i dont know if its hallucinations i suspect its not cause i have loose skin from being fat up to 300 lbs when i was really fd in the head last year but now im a size 12 us skinny cut on bottom and losing about 17 pounds per week so far (loving that) im so dis gusting i cant stand it and the better i look like walker said the dirtier i feel yet i cant help but drive myself to be thin

[hummm_mabbe]

Hi Walker

I had quoted your post, but saw that you said you may delete it, so I took the quote out

Reading what you said though, I think yet again it shows how you were told one thing by your family, but their actions spoke the opposite. Its as though they were ashamed of admitting they were ashamed. "I will tell you sex is ok and normal because that is what I am meant to think, but if you actually think about doing it, I will punish you by making you feel filthy and ignoring you".

Because of guilt and shame, you REMEMBER the words and so reason they were never bad to you, yet you are able to remember the actions, Its the actions that leave mark more, and whats more they add confusion. Ongoing emotional confusion leads to emotional problems.

I know it wont mean much to you, but this is yet another piece of evidence to show how invalidating your family life was, and how you did not deserve it. Because if sex was normal and ok FOR YOUR MUM, your mum would not have reacted like that. If she belived the grand words she used, you would not have been made to feel disgusting.

Instead the message you get is "Its ok for other people to have sex - BUT NOT YOU OR YOU ARE FILTHY". In fact, this is just your mum ptojecting her own shame onto you, which as a child you cannot question because you rely on her emotionally. Yours and my mum would get on famously :)

[jades]

rossie i must lose weight but like i said previously i feel im provoking and attack and people will see im a whore i feel like when someone compliments me theyre really saying we know your a filthy whore we know ..... i feel terrible but i must lose weight its a double edged sword i knew i was a whore for the abuse so i litterally became a call girl why not get paid and let everyone know it please talk to me

[hummm_mabbe]

im scared they will see right thru me and see how i caused the abuse that i didnt do enough to stop it that i stopped fighting it that i was provoking it by the way i looked and if they see that theyll think im a whore and then theyll know theyll know youst how horrible a person a person i am that im a despicabel whore and deserved what i got and have no place to complain no one will want to be my friend then

Jades

You were abused because some adults were allowed into your life who were sick. As a child, you rely on the protection of your family. As a teenager, you rely on the protection of your family.

If you are hurt, you should be understood, listened to and helped. You should be protected so that you are not hurt again. Someone did not protect you. Someone made you feel it was your fault - so that they did not have to face up to the challenge of protecting you. They failed you, and instead of admitting that, they let you feel responsible.

Your abusers too, denied their responsibility by telling you that you bring it on yourself. They dealt with their own sickness by pouring it onto you, like vomting onto someone and then saying "look at the state of you - you are covered in vomit".

But you were a clean, bright child. You were meant o be happy, and been allowed to play, and grow up normally, and receive the love, protection and support that every child is entitled to. Their disgusting sickness had no place around you - it is THEM that were sick, disgusting, foul, vile. And rather than deal with it, rather than having the courage that YOU HAVE SHOWN IN SPADES, they took it out on a child. That child was you, and that hurt is inside of you. It is like a timebomb they have put there that never had any place inside of you.

It is a result of other peoples shame, fear and complete lack of courage that you feel this way, that you dissociate, and that you are now having to work so hard to make these changes. You are a hero, and they are not even worthy of the title of villains - they are cowards. They are abhorrent. They knew this and trued to feel better by placing it on you, by poitning to your clothes and using that as THEIR excuse for their vile, vomitous behaviour, behaviour that the world would look at and hold in utter contempt. The same contempt that the people who SHOULD have protected you, feared so deeply - and so left you to suffer.

You were betrayed, you were abanadoned, when you most needed it, because the adults around you were too weak or too sick in their heads to do anything else. As a child you NEED adults, and to belive they are bad is like commitiing emotional suicide to a kid. You have to blame yourself - but it is illusory. The blame, the failure, the CRIME, is theirs.

As you have said, you feel like you must wear your shame on the outside, Sometimes when women are abused, they deal with it by actually recreating the orogonal trauma, in a bid to gain a sense of control over it. In the hope it will be different next time. Its how such women come to be with abusive men. Its how some women end up working in the sex industry. Though it provodes some sense of control and relief from the terrible memory of the abuse, it adds to their shame, and to their self blame. "Look at me - look how I act, I must have wanted it". But thats is not true - what they are doing is trying to get control of the terrible sensations, of the past, that others SHOULD have helped them with and protected them from. This re-enactment is NOT sign of filth, shame and the need for blame - it is a normal human reaction to trauma, seen again and again in many many victims of physical, emotional and sexual assault. IT DOES NOT MEAN THAT YOU ARE ABHORRENT - it means that you are trying to be free from abhorrent things that were done to you.

When your heart truly believes this, a HUGE part of your healing will be complete.

[Roses]

I too have learnt lots cos of this thread. Thanks Rossie xxx